Well, not the motorway itself, but High Wycombe.
Many of you will use the busy M40.... if the plans go ahead Wycombe will lose its A&E.
The plans are to transfer all accident and emergency facility's to Stoke Mandiville, Nr Aylesbury.
That's 17 miles away!
The alternatives are Slough or Oxford.
Please can you sign this petition.
democracy.buckscc.gov.uk/mgEPetitionDisplay.aspx?ID=633&TPID=67938015
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Blimey, get sent to Wexham Park A&E and you never come out alive!
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Neither Slough nor Stoke Mandeville is what you'd call handy for the M40.
Wycombe hospital is already fairly decimated IIRC. I didn't realise there was still an A&E there.
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>> Neither Slough nor Stoke Mandeville is what you'd call handy for the M40.
>>
>> Wycombe hospital is already fairly decimated IIRC. I didn't realise there was still an A&E
>> there.
>>
It is decimated.
Once A&E goes, I give the whole place 12-18 months.
I wish they would take note of how many times there are fairly serious accidents on the stretch between Beaconsfield/Loudwater/High Wycombe.
I hate to say it, but people WILL die being transferred to Stoke Mandiville.
The plans are one of the reasons I donate monthly to this.... www.tvacaa.org/
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There are plenty of places in the UK more than 17 miles from an A & E. It's not just the distance involved its the resources available at the receiving A & E unit and the skill and training of the para-medics that counts. It can actually make more sense to have a lesser number of high grade A & E units than a large number of units that are unable to deal with the worst cases and then have to transfer patients.
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I use this bit of motorway several times a week, and have seen a fair few incidents over the years.
Naturally, I have signed the petition.
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You are not alone, the M90 lost its nearest A&E in January. All the petitions are a waste of time, the decision will already have been made. The powers that be used ten year old population figures to justify shutting ours, not surprising as there had been a thousands of new houses built in that area. There are not enough schools for the kids as the council sold the land designated for the school and the dragged their heels about building one miles from anywhere.
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>> There are plenty of places in the UK more than 17 miles from an A
>> & E. It's not just the distance involved its the resources available at the receiving
>> A & E unit and the skill and training of the para-medics that counts. It
>> can actually make more sense to have a lesser number of high grade A &
>> E units than a large number of units that are unable to deal with the
>> worst cases and then have to transfer patients.
>>
To a point I agree.
But, the M40 passes High Wycombe, and is often mentioned on the radio due to accidents, as anyone who uses the M40/listens to London radio will agree.
To get to either Stoke Mandiville or Slough (Wexham Park) involves a ride down twisty, bumpy roads, that are a mix of residential and country lanes.
To get to Stoke Mandiville you pass Wycombe hospital than carry on for 20 minutes (according to NHS.... fastest I have ever done it is around 30 breaking every limit on the road....Its 17 miles remember!)
My point is, there is no point arriving at a brilliant hospital dead, having passed a good hospital alive..... And Wycombe WAS a brilliant hospital, before being left to die.
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The problem with issues like this is that none of us are really in a position to take a balanced view. I just don't know whether the re-removal of A and E facilities from Wycombe makes medical, or economic sense, and no matter what anyone may say, finance does have to be taken into account.
Somebody does have to make decision as to how the facilities are best utilised and presumably the authorities believe the decision they have taken is correct. What arguments do they give to justify the changes?
Incidentally Zero quotes the "golden hour" I believe this concept is now considered by many to be rather simplistic.
"While most medical professionals agree that delays in definitive care are undesirable, recent peer reviewed literature casts doubt on the validity of the 'golden hour' as it appears to lack a scientific basis. Dr. Bryan Bledsoe, an outspoken critic of the golden hour and other EMS "myths" like critical incident stress management, has indicated that the peer reviewed medical literature does not demonstrate any "magical time" for saving critical patients."
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hile most medical professionals agree that delays in definitive care are undesirable, recent peer reviewed literature casts doubt on the validity of the 'golden hour' as it appears to lack a scientific basis. Dr. Bryan Bledsoe, an outspoken critic of the golden hour and other EMS "myths" like critical incident stress management, has indicated that the peer reviewed medical literature does not demonstrate any "magical time" for saving critical patients."
>>
So... what he is saying is delaying the care doesn't make much difference?
Try telling that to the family of someone with internal injuries, that don't get diagnosed for over an hour, due to extended travelling time.
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No what he is saying is time to treatment is not the only factor nor necessarily the main one as to whether you survive your injuries or not.
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The golden hour is inviolate, where people differ is what happens in that hour.
It could be very good diagnosis, or triage, could be stabilisation, but it doesn't need to be in A&E .
It needs to be carried out, and damn quickly, by trauma experienced medical professionals
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"but it doesn't need to be in A&E ."
Exactly, the distance from accident to A & E unit is only a part of the equation. That's what I said in my earlier post. That's why its impossible without all the facts to hand to take a considered view as to whether closing a particular unit is justifiable
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>> "but it doesn't need to be in A&E ."
>>
>> Exactly, the distance from accident to A & E unit is only a part of
>> the equation. That's what I said in my earlier post. That's why its impossible without
>> all the facts to hand to take a considered view as to whether closing a
>> particular unit is justifiable
But I would far sooner be treated, quickly, in a well equipped A&E, staffed with experienced trauma professionals , than by the side of the road by a less well equipped paramedic crew. And at the end of the day, so would you.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 22 Apr 12 at 14:10
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>>But I would far sooner be treated, quickly, in a well equipped A&E, than by the side of the road by a less well equipped paramedic crew.
>> And at the end of the day, so would you.
>>
Earlier this week I watched a TV prog in which a doctor investigated why in Aus they have such an impressive record of saving / treating road accident victims.
Their A & E depts are very well equiped with all the kit and lots of staff at hand.
Their paramedics can treat people to a much much higher standard than ours are allowed.
Perhaps we should be upgrading our paramedics ?
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>> Perhaps we should be upgrading our paramedics ?
It is true that a large proportion of our ambulance crews are just first aid trained drivers, but we do also have highly skilled paramedics, and HEMS Helicopters, its just the the level of the first responder is so variable.
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All I am trying to say is that it is not possible for anyone not in possession of the full facts , both medical and financial to make a snap decision as to whether the closing of a particular A and E unit is justifiable.
It is not possible to say that because it is 15 miles to the next nearest hospital that such a closure is unjustifiable. Survivability does not depend on distance alone and distance cannot be the sole factor in making a decision about the future of a particular unit.
I presume that many factors have been taken into account by the health authority in making the decision. It would be interesting to see the whole story.
As for your final paragraph the answer is of course that you require both excellent paramedic facilities and excellent A&E facilities. They are not alternatives.
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I was involved in assisting at a serious medical event a couple of years ago.
The person was treated for some considerable time in the ambulance even though A & E was about two easy miles away.
Another variable re treatment at a much lower level. "Laughing gas" is carried by ambulances and is piped around our hospitals but I understand that just a handful of USA hospitals use it. Perhaps it is not profitable enough ?
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>> There are plenty of places in the UK more than 17 miles from an A
>> & E.
Yeah but they don't have a notorious stretch of accident prone motorway nearby
It's not just the distance involved its the resources available at the receiving
>> A & E unit and the skill and training of the para-medics that counts.
Its the golden hour that counts.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_hour_(medicine)
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Now if we hadn't squandered all that money on the Olympics.....
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>> Now if we hadn't squandered all that money on the Olympics.....
>>
Less of the "we".
I suppose we are stupid enough to vote for the wastrels that run the country though.
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>> Now if we hadn't squandered all that money on the Olympics.....
Now then GB, stand there with hand on heart and say "I seriously believe that if the games had been cancelled, we would have spent the money on hospitals"
No I don't believe you either.
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>> >> There are plenty of places in the UK more than 17 miles from an A & E.
>> Yeah but they don't have a notorious stretch of accident prone motorway nearby
>> It's not just the distance involved its the resources available at the receiving
>> >> A & E unit and the skill and training of the para-medics that counts.
>> Its the golden hour that counts.
Blimey.... Zero and I agreeing on something!
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Motorway to lose A & E? - Zero
