While we have something like 50 makes of cars available today, the commercial HGV makers seem very low.
So far I could recall only these
Scania (do they have a monopoly in UK?)
Daf
Volvo
Iveco
Renault
Mercedes (I think they are bit rare in UK)
Has it been always the case or HGV landscape has changed in recent years?
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We had many makes in years gone by, lots of British and scores of foreign makes.
Companies merged and others went bust, but many of the old British companies sold out to foreigners who swiftly closed them down...and presumably made some serious wonga on the factory sites in the process...ring any bells...;)
Many old sites are now large housing estates....Scammell at Tolpits Lane Watfod being a perfect example, i haven't been past Fodens at Sandbach but i imagine similar changes.
No doubt those who live nearby old sites know more.
There are many reasons for this, uncompetitive in the modern world and unsupported by their own country and countrymen being only two.
I liked my British trucks, properly specified they were every bit as good as the foreign stuff and far better than most.
If ERF, Foden and Seddon Atkinson had merged and pooled their considerable talents instead of individually selling out to foreigners i believe we would still have a world class truck building industry....maybe if Tata had bought them instead who knows?
9th and 10th June will see the Classic truck show at Gaydon Heritage Centre, if you want to see hundreds of old British and some foreign trucks in their glory, its worth a visit.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Mon 23 Apr 12 at 09:38
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>>Many old sites are now large housing estates....Scammell at Tolpits Lane Watfod being a perfect example, i haven't been past Fodens at Sandbach but i imagine similar changes.
No doubt those who live nearby old sites know more.
BL Lorry & tractor factory ( 1960-1985) @ Bathgate now flats and 4/5 bed villas - the jobs there were meant to cover for mines closing now all the "light industry giants" have come and gone as well - Motorola mobiles (now HM R&C Call Centre)
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What about MAN, ERF, Dennis, Seddon Atkinson, Mack, Hino, Isuzu, Mitsubishi Fuso? And I'm sure my colleagues can name many others :)
Agreed there aren't as many truck manufacturers selling their products in the UK as there are car manufacturers, but then there aren't as many trucks on the road as cars. Each manufacturer needs to provide service backup too, so the setup costs for new names are high.
Scania seems to stand out because a) Eddie Stobart use a lot of them, so they are visible; and b) Scania don't make cars so the name seems unusual to car spotters. I know they are part of Saab but the Saab badges on the front of the trucks are tiny. Mercedes trucks aren't that rare either, many big fleets use them exclusively.
(Written at the Iveco dealers waiting for my cab to be tipped to have the oil topped up, but that's another story ;) )
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There has been a fair bit of consolidation for HGV manufacturers in the last 15 years or so.
Volvo Trucks own Renault Trucks.
MAN bought ERF and no longer produce ERF badged vehicles (though not sure whether the truck contract they won from the MoD will have ERF badges or MAN badges). MAN are majority owned by VW.
Scania are majority owned by VW. VW may merge Scania and MAN.
Foden and DAF are owned by the American company PACCAR.
Mercedes and Iveco are both independent.
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What about Ford?
They used to make rigids, I'm sure our cattle lorry was a Ford.
Can't recall seeing a Ford artic tractor unit.
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>> What about Ford?
I think that Iveco bought Ford's LGV manufacturing side. I know that, in the late 80s/early 90s the Ford Cargo 7.5t lorry started to appear with both Ford and Iveco badges on the front. Then, when it was updated the Ford badges disappeared.
I used to drive past an Iveco commercial dealer every day and you could have an Iveco tractor unit for the bargain price of £269 per week.
As an aside, I've just been turned down for the Eddie Stobart driver trainig programme as I'm too old. Too old! The cheek of it! :-)
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>> As an aside, I've just been turned down for the Eddie Stobart driver trainig programme
>> as I'm too old. Too old! The cheek of it! :-)
Blessing in disguise BW, you wouldn't believe the hours involved.
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Loads of Ford tractors Iffy.
Most of them used Cummins engines, in Ford Cargo form the very light L10 10 litre 250/290 hp Cummins gave a very healthy payload because the tractor was extremely light, though an unloved by drivers boneshaker.
In larger Ford Transcontinental model they followed the trusted route of big Cummins 14 litre (one of the best truck engines ever, built wish i still had one) in 290/350hp form with the default and none the worse for that combination of Fuller crash box and a Rockwell axle, superb trucks....the cab IIRC was bought in from Berliet (if thats wrong someone will soon correct) and raised high on the chassis giving class leading driver comfort and space with no internal bonnet, very desirable truck of its day and still see the rare one on the road (not in London anymore thanks to the emissions legislation)
ISTR Ford commercials combined or were taken over by Iveco, and the respected Transcontinental vanished forever, about that time the Fiat badge vanished from their trucks replace with Iveco.
Not sure but i seem to recall Magirus Deutz were swallowed up by Iveco about the same time too.
You'll notice that the 10 and 14 litre Cummins were available in 290hp form, the differences between the two were weight, the 10 litre was very light, but lacked torque as you would expect, the 14 litre would pull something like 1150 lbs ft of torque at 1100 rpm and something like 80% of that torque was available from 800rpm...very little made today is driveable at such low revs, given the right driver the economy from such lugging ability was phenominal, oddly enough the nearest truck modern i've come to those old Cummins in ability and simplicity and the ability to lug is the bog standard Mercedes Axor, now an old and left alone design, a basic no frills fleet truck favoured by the huge Tesco and Argos fleets, as you might expect a capable truck in manual form which reverts to being just another spoiled just about do motor when fitted with the automated manual box.
Axor not rated by glory truckers though, it ain't pretty and no bling, it just gets on with the job, i like 'em basic.
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>> While we have something like 50 makes of cars available today, the commercial HGV makers
>> seem very low.
Is it because the market (in terms of quantity) for HGVs is much smaller than for cars?
It's possible that the number of HGVs is in here somewhere but I couldn't find it. tinyurl.com/d92da83
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When I was a toddler my father drove a Foden eight-legger for British Road Services and the local depot also had - among better-known makes - a Sentinel, a Vulcan, a Thornycroft and a Proctor.
Later he worked for the firm which is now Langdons and drove a Rutland as well as Albions and a Leyland Octopus before they bought their first Mercedes in January, 1966. The rest is history.
Anyone remember that Jensen once made very advanced lightweight lorries as well as sportscars?
Of course, as a Westcountry lad, I well remember the Rowe Hillmaster - made by a firm at Dobwalls, near Liskeard in Cornwall which, last time I passed there, was a Honda dealer.
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>> among better-known makes...a Vulcan...
Ah, the Vulcan. Built here in Southport.
tinyurl.com/cd8cymm
The factory still survives (mostly) although some of it has been demolished over the years.
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Most HGV manufacturers don't manufacture-they just assemble-engine from here,axles from there etc. The Ford Transcontinental was mentioned-Cummins or Detroit Diesel engines,axles from the US and a Renault cab.And Tesco and Argos fleets were mentioned-I thought that they were run-along with many other companies(in the hirers' livery) by Eddie Stobart.
Last edited by: jc2 on Mon 23 Apr 12 at 15:30
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THe investment needed for new models and technical developments means there will be few makers.
There are many car brands, not many makers - you can't really count Audi. Seat, Skoda, VW, Lamborgini and Bentley as different makers.
As another example how many toothpaste makers are there - probably 3 despite the image of the shelves at your nearest supermarket.
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The last repository of working British-made trucks is the Army. Given that I'm regularly around Brecon, and live next to the main A40 leading to Castlemartin and Pendine ranges, I probably see more military trucks than most. Bedfords are still reasonably numerous, although steadily being replaced by the incredibly ugly MAN trucks; Leyland and Foden 8-wheelers and recovery trucks are still about too but starting to look somewhat the worse for wear.
A friend of mine works for the MOD in Brecon as a driver and tells me that the all-singing all-dancing new trucks are just as vulnerable to a bit of electronic failure as our civilian vehicles; the old "future-proof" British stuff, on the other hand, just soldiers on if you'll forgive the pun and is infinitely fixable with fairly basic tools.
I can't help but think that Adolf would have a quiet snigger if he could see all those German-built army lorries on British roads today.
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>> A friend of mine works for the MOD in Brecon as a driver and tells
>> me that the all-singing all-dancing new trucks are just as vulnerable to a bit of
>> electronic failure as our civilian vehicles; the old "future-proof" British stuff, on the other hand,
I used to deliver the usual 4x4 light trucks before and collect them after certain modifications before they entered service.
Unbelievably they had the ever troublesome plipper/immobilser still fitted, invariably at least one of them would fail to start requiring the master switch (fortunately inside cab) to be turned off and back on again to reset the prattish thing.
My mind at the time envisioned a couple of Hilux's full of baddies armed to the teeth tearing down the road towards this thing and the stupid flamin immobiliser choosing that moment to play up.
Why in name of that is Holy did someone not order the removal of that idiotic device before such a vehicle entered active service?
You could bet your life those flippin Hilux's wouldn't have anything like that still connected.
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Why so few HGV makers? - -
