...and then spoils it all by trying too hard.
The BBC radio news this morning carried an item based on data from 'the consumer website Honest John', which revealed, amongst other things, that 20% of 2008 cars failed their first MoT.
So far, so shocking, you might think. But then he went and spoiled it by breaking the data down by manufacturer, revealing that 90% of Suzuki Splashes (not sure I know what that is) MoT'd for the first time in 2011 passed, whereas only 62% of Chrysler 300Cs did.
Not sure if it was HJ or the BBC that tried to extend this to say that certain manufacturers were best avoided - HJ's site does have a section on 'which first car to choose that's likely to pass the MoT' (!) - but the report went on to say that most failures were due to failed bulbs or defective wipers, hardly items the manufacturers can take the blame for.
In fact, HJ's site has a table of causes of failure - not just for first MoTs, where you'd expect major structural problems to make a smaller contribution - and over 60% are due to lights, brakes, tyres or windscreens; all maintenance items, for which the owner, not the manufacturer is responsible.
So, big news story turns out to be about nothing in particular? Who'd have thought it?
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>> Who'd have thought
>> it?
>>
For anything involving HJ then me, I'd have thought it.
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>> For anything involving HJ then me, I'd have thought it.
How do you mean? Not sure I understand the antipathy towards HJ and his web site.
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Not good news for anyone with a Kia Pride then.
:)
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I read that and couldn't understand it either.
From a little i read it seems Aston Martin has the best pass rate.
Aston owner who can usually afford it puts car in for comprehensive service, skilled mechanic fully services car, then takes it for MOT, it passes.
Others who maybe don't have their cars serviced properly, and can't be bothered to check if their car has bald tyres or blown bulbs find it fails.
Blindingly obvious both outcomes.
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It might be more interesting to take a sample of brand new cars for an MOT and see what proportion of them failed.
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>> It might be more interesting to take a sample of brand new cars for an
>> MOT and see what proportion of them failed.
Couldn't agree more.
The owner is a far bigger variable in whether a car passes its firs MOT than the type of car involved. While some cars stand abuse better than others, I would imagine most would succumb to three years hard use with as good as zero servicing, and an owner who never bothers to check things like lights, tyres and brakes.
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HJ being mentioned in all the bulletins this morning on Radios 1 and 2.
Like one particular poster on this site, I reckon many people get themselves a new car precisely because they don't feel confident with doing their own maintenance. Unlike that poster, they then forget all about it until MoT time and then just whack it through to see if it passes. Anyone with half a clue would at least check the basics just before the test, I know I do.
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I'm not a big fan of HJ to be honest. In my dealings with him I have found him to be an unpleasant guy who has an over inflated opinion of himself. I think a lot of cars failing their first MOT is down to abuse or neglect by the owners to be honest though the intrinsic quality of the car's build will play a part of course.
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I'm no mathemtician but surely also the statistics are skewed by the number of cars sold by a particular maker.
If you sold 750,000 Fiestas then of course a higher proportion will fail an MOT compared to say 2,500 Astons sold in the same year.
This clearly doesn't make the Fiesta a bad car to be avoided.
Last edited by: TheManWithNoName on Fri 11 May 12 at 12:35
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A higher number, yes, but not a higher proportion unless some other factor is at work. Clearly it is in this case, which is what makes the 'survey' so badly flawed.
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Well spotted Mr DeBeest.
;-)
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>> I'm no mathemtician but surely also the statistics are skewed by the number of cars
>> sold by a particular maker.
>>
>> If you sold 750,000 Fiestas then of course a higher proportion will fail an MOT
>> compared to say 2,500 Astons sold in the same year.
>> This clearly doesn't make the Fiesta a bad car to be avoided.
>>
However, the chances of buying a Fiesta that would fail an MOT are much lower due to the higher volume of the model "available"...:-)))
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>> I'm not a big fan of HJ to be honest. In my dealings with him
>> I have found him to be an unpleasant guy who has an over inflated opinion
>> of himself.
I am surprised. In what way unpleasant? I have only had one or two dealings with him via email on minor matters, when I sent an email, and found him very helpful, when he did not need to be!
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^
Maybe I am being a little unfair but he was extremely blunt in the emails I received and felt a bit patronised. Maybe i have been a bit harsh: sorry but I have noticed that in his columns and on the old board he is very harsh on people who dare to venture a different opinion to his own.
By the way what caused the schism from the old board. His backroom is dead now.
Last edited by: mattbod on Fri 11 May 12 at 13:12
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Every one who has had dealings with him have a different experience - I keep my council.
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>> he is very harsh on people who dare to venture a different opinion to his own.
<<
Someone should give him a shout, he's feel right at home on here;)
Pat
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I rember a discussion on HJ on driving a automatic.He didn't like people using one foot for gas and braking.
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From both the DT column and website I have impression he has dogmatic views on a number of subjects including:
* Left foot braking in autos
* Bi-focals and varifocals being unsafe for driving
In both cases contrary discussion was discouraged. Wasn't it a spat over glasses that finally saw Mark of the blessed Leamington Spa exit. Not really a flounce as he was fully justified.
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I use varifocals have done for years.No problem regarding safety.
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>> I use varifocals have done for years.No problem regarding safety.
>>
I tried them. ruddy lethal...
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I wear them, they are not a problem.
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>> >> I use varifocals have done for years.No problem regarding safety.
>> >>
>> I tried them. ruddy lethal...
>>
I too have used varifocals for over ten years and not been aware of any problems.
I have just got two new expensive pairs.
I am long sighted and prior to varifocals ( for sharpening up distance) I had single lenses but I could not read the dash which is also not good.
Martin, what was lethal about varifocals ?
Do you mean you could not adapt to them and therefore they were not suitable for you?
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It would seem varifocals are much like Marmite.
My optician recommended them and after a month or so I gave up. Good bloke, he changed them for bi-focals at no cost to me.
I now wear bi-focals with the distant part extending to the lower and outer part of the lens so I can glance into the door mirror.
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>>It would seem varifocals are much like Marmite.
Seems you either adapt to them or not
>>Good bloke, he changed them for bi-focals at no cost to me.
Good to hear.
I also have third set of specs. Aan old pair of large frames with single reading lenses in them
I call them my DIY glasses as I need them for certian DIY jobs where I need to look upwards to a close object. Neither half frame reading glasses or obviously varifocals will work in this situation.
SWMO has now started on an expensive ( for us) route of several new prescriptions
in the next year or so - about one every 5 months.
The jump to optimum sight is too great so it is being done in stages so that the brain can adapt.
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>> SWMO has now started on an expensive ( for us) route of several new prescriptions
>> in the next year or so - about one every 5 months.
>> The jump to optimum sight is too great so it is being done in stages
>> so that the brain can adapt.
>>
Have a look at Specsavers, their prices are very sensible. Especially if the lady is only going to have each pair of glasses for a few months.
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>>Have a look at Specsavers, their prices are very sensible. Especially if the lady is only going to have each pair of glasses for a few months.
>>
That is indeed where we go and are very satisfied to date.
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>> Mark of the blessed Leamington Spa
Ah, now that rang some old cliquey bells. An excellent spectator sport would have been a Zero(as he is now, not then of course)/Mark spat, but I don't remember one :)
But all that HJ stuff is best left in the past probably.
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"Left foot braking in autos"
Hope he never drives Toyota automatics - from the manual:
"• Depress the brake pedal using your right foot. Depressing the brake
pedal using your left foot may delay response in an emergency, resulting
in an accident."
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>> Maybe I am being a little unfair but he was extremely blunt in the emails
>> I received and felt a bit patronised. Maybe i have been a bit harsh: sorry
>> but I have noticed that in his columns and on the old board he is
>> very harsh on people who dare to venture a different opinion to his own.
Thanks for the explanation. :) He might be a bit brusk due to time constraints. I received replies to emails about small issues to do with my car, and I was impressed that he took the time to reply. So I guess he does spend a lot of time dealing with emails, hence he must be busy. I am sure he is opinionated too, as I think he has a lot more knowledge than many of us, well me anyway. :)
>> By the way what caused the schism from the old board. His backroom is dead
>> now.
I thank in part he did not like hosting a chat forum, with the associated costs. But the main reason was that he tried to use new web site software, the old site went down, and the new one did not appear for a long while due to issues. Many people were bereft, so someone started the old software here. And the rest is history.
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>> I would imagine most would succumb to three years hard use with as good as zero
>> servicing,
Damn cheek, My mechaniatrickery skills are pretty good, and my car has not failed to pass an MOT in my tenure!
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>>My mechaniatrickery skills are pretty good, and my car has not failed to pass an MOT in my tenure<<
Yeah, but its a blimmin Lancer ain't it: good-garage-guide.honestjohn.co.uk/mot/mitsubishi/lancer
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One can't trust HJ's advice on the website because its a commercial operation that is beholden to its advertising and revenue stream,
As many who found out who dared to provide some facts,
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>> One can't trust HJ's advice on the website because its a commercial operation that is
>> beholden to its advertising and revenue stream,
I don't believe that. As far as I can see his advice is sound, and unbiased.
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your are wearing blinkers i am afraid Leif, I have seen it plenty of times. Tell you what try proving it, go on there and say that Warranty Direct are not value for money. Plenty did, and the posts got wiped.
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>> your are wearing blinkers i am afraid Leif, I have seen it plenty of times.
>> Tell you what try proving it, go on there and say that Warranty Direct are
>> not value for money. Plenty did, and the posts got wiped.
I have checked, and I have no blinkers on. Sorry. HJ is terrified of being sued, hence he has a very low tolerance of posts that attack companies and individuals. He also has the strictest moderation I have ever seen. In one of my posts "My God" was changed to "My goodness", making me sound very twee. Well, heavens to Betsy, and golly gosh, I was extremely surprised, old chap. Toodle pip.
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Leif, I won't try and convince you any more. It is a commercial operation, and its heavily biased towards its commercial sponsors, so I will just reiterate to others.
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>> Leif, I won't try and convince you any more. It is a commercial operation, and
>> its heavily biased towards its commercial sponsors, so I will just reiterate to others.
I don't disagree that he tries to turn a profit from it, and support himself. But I see nothing wrong with that. I happen to like his car reviews, despite the slightly wooden performances.
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He is/was closely linked to Warranty Direct.
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>> He also has the strictest moderation I have ever seen.
Substitute the word "has" for "had" ;o)
>> "My God" was changed to "My goodness"
Probably me that did the edit. I recall having a heated debate by email with someone about blasphemy and the HJ forum being littered with it. Ended up removing any blasphemous comments I saw just to keep the peace, and to keep my inbox from filling up again with complaints from Mr Angry ;o)
To cut a long story short - damned if you do, damned if you don't.
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>> To cut a long story short - damned if you do, damned if you don't.
>>
I moderate on the HDRCGB forum; complete empathy with your comment.
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>> >> "My God" was changed to "My goodness"
>>
>> Probably me that did the edit. I recall having a heated debate by email with
>> someone about blasphemy and the HJ forum being littered with it. Ended up removing any
>> blasphemous comments I saw just to keep the peace, and to keep my inbox from
>> filling up again with complaints from Mr Angry ;o)
It did leave me rather bemused given that "My God" is often heard on the R4 Today programme. Anyway, I now know how to bully a moderator into submission. :)
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>> your are wearing blinkers i am afraid Leif, I have seen it plenty of times.
>> Tell you what try proving it, go on there and say that Warranty Direct are
>> not value for money. Plenty did, and the posts got wiped.
>>
Some discussion, both pro and con, with regards to Warranty Direct.
Link to Honest John Backroom
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=88473
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It is an item on BBC national news this lunchtime.
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It's barely believable that a car can fail it's first MOT these days. The only instance that I can recall (in the rather distant past) is when a pall of mine had to scrap his three year old Vauxhall Victor after its first test due to excessive body rot.
No car that I have owned has failed its first or second MOT, and my current barge has been through seven times without comment.
I put it down to regular main dealer servicing...
:)
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My dad's vauxhall failed its first MOT with a cracked spring. Ford Kas used to fail theirs on rust! I'd imagine suspension related failings would be high on the list due to the shoddy nature of the roads and the shoddy build quality of modern springs.
It seems rather odd that a new car has 3 years before being checked when it could either be doing 6k a year or 40k a year. I think a mileage limit should be considered so it is 3 years or 60,000 miles, whichever is sooner. With ever increasing service intervals cars are being checked over less and less.
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HJ was always perfectly straightforward in my couple of correspondences with him. He is clearly a busy man. His published advice to motorists is always sound and unbiased as far as I can see.
Of course he has his likes and dislikes and a couple of bees in his bonnet. So have we all. I was sorry when his back room forum went all funny. This one seemed the nearest thing to it when it was working properly, hardly surprisingly.
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>> It's barely believable that a car can fail it's first MOT these days.
I'd beg to differ. It depends as much on the tester's attitude (and by implication, the customer's) as the level of care or neglect which the car has enjoyed or suffered.
There have been regular discussions on this site about the difficulty of doing the most mundane tasks on modern cars such as changing a headlamp bulb. Add that to the prevailing attitude that "it's only three years old and done ten thousand miles so there can't be anything wrong with it" and it's a wonder more don't fail.
As most of you will know, HGV's are first tested after 12 months not three years, and even on their first test there can easily be a catalogue of potential failures.
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>> There have been regular discussions on this site about the difficulty of doing the most
>> mundane tasks on modern cars such as changing a headlamp bulb.
Tell me about it. I had to have the front bulb in my Ka replaced by the garage, as when I tried, I unplugged the horn. There just is not enough room in the engine bay. Even the garage chap said he removed some skin from his hand when he did it. And of course EU regs or some country specific regs (forget which) require cars have spare bulbs inside when in certain countries. Despite the fact that for some cars you cannot replace the bulb yourself. It highlights the result of allowing ignorant bureaucrats to make laws.
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>>Despite the fact that for some cars you cannot replace the bulb yourself.
>>
IIRC on some "clever " cars you can replace a blown bulb but the computer god on board says " NO" so only a dealer can sort it.
I suspect if you wave a box of any old bulbs at an EU bod he will be happy even if you have HIDs on the front :-)
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Going back to earlier parts of this thread I'm with Mattbod. (good reply Pat!) HJ's advice section in the Saturday Telegraph is frequently full of complete and utter rubbish advice and very negative comment about the UK in general. I understnd HJ spends quite some time living in Thailand.... I'll accept that some of the advice is good, mostly about cars themselves, but I wish he'd stick to just that. I can't understnd how the editor accepts him as an expert on other matters.
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>> I'll accept that some of the advice is good, mostly about
>> cars themselves, but I wish he'd stick to just that.
I just wonder where he gained his alleged expertise. I consider him to be just a motoring journalist. I look on Jeremy Clarkson similarly.
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"Every one who has had dealings with him have a different experience - I keep my council. " (R.P. above)
Rob - I think this hugely public-spirited gesture should be more widely known. So the rest of Anglesey's lucky inhabitants don't have to pay council tax?
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Avant, it'll be missed if they're not looking skyward.
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No it won't. We're not that slow.
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I certainly feel as if I'm keeping my council.
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So the
>> rest of Anglesey's lucky inhabitants don't have to pay council tax?
>>
Those that do aren't exactly spoiled. The Welsh Assembly in Cardiff had to send a "hit squad" to Anglesey last year to sort the place out; apparently there were massed batteries of prams and toys all over the place! ;-)
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Yep - no democracy on Anglesey - "Commissioners" sent in to run it including a (allegedly) rather dodgy chap (who happens to be a chum of the fat Minister from the WG) from Flintshire according to Private Eye. £186 quid a month is the price of keeping them in pies. No vote this last time for us. Typo spotted !
Last edited by: R.P. on Sat 12 May 12 at 14:11
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I found myself standing next to HJ in an airport departure lounge last year. We exchanged a few momentary pleasantries, nothing more. Seemed quite shy in some ways.
Funny looking critter mind. Looked like he'd been dressed by Primark. Fairly randomly at that, and almost certainly in the dark.
I find his reviews very good though. Wouldn't like to say about the rest of it. Find it quite hard to care in truth really. Good luck to him. Never done me any harm.
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>> I found myself standing next to HJ in an airport departure lounge last year. We
>> exchanged a few momentary pleasantries, nothing more. Seemed quite shy in some ways.
Did he know who you are?
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I'm nobody ! But if you mean did we discuss the Backroom etc then yes we just about got that far but to be clear it was a 2 minute conversation at most. The flight had been called and I just happened to be standing next to him as we shuffled towards the gate control. We got as far me mentioning my old screen name but it didn't seem to register. Why would it really? There were a lot of us at one time weren't there and to be fair, most of my posts are irrelevant drivel anyway. Even I know that !
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Agreed Hump.
Always liked his reviews and simple road tests, and his oppo Andrew's too, don't agree with him on everything, but he talks a lot of basic common sense about motors.
I like the fact he's prepared to put a fair whats bad section in his car by car section, always have a nose in there when considering something.
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And more importantly Humph - what kind of shoes was he wearing ?
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Co-respondent shoes, I'll wager. Spectator shoes maybe.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectator_shoe
Or sandals with shorts if he was on his way to Thailand?
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Are you sure it was him Humph ? "I" was sighted fuelling a BMW up somewhere a few years ago if you recall...!
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No, it was definitely him. We established that much. I can't actually remember his shoes, which is unlike me. I was too busy trying to get my head around his clothes...Anyway, like I said, good luck to the man. he can be who he wants to be, same as the rest of us.
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>> I was too busy trying to get my head around his
>> clothes ......
Was he wearing his trademark titfer?
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>> Funny looking critter mind. Looked like he'd been dressed by Primark. Fairly randomly at that,
>> and almost certainly in the dark.
Ha ha. I think his car reviews are some of the best around. Unlike some, they are geared to practical living. Here is one with him displaying distinctive dress sense:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCtv_qpmhPY
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That's how I dress, nothing wrong with it!
And the VW UP is my type of motor, wind-up windows and no remote locking. Cheap and sensible.
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>> Cheap and sensible.
And 3-cylinder and zippy with it, belt cam the only fly in the ointment but so what?
If I only had the money attributed to this Lud chap I'd have a Bluemotion like a shot. It would make sense for us actually and herself would like it (she's been making googoo eyes about that Chevrolet Spark). But I haven't so I can't. Fullchat's Rover is more my sort of thing really, or would be if I were as I used to be.
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>> Fullchat's Rover is more my sort of thing really,
>>
Aha!!!!!
Exposed as a flat capped mimser, you old fraud!
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Why not ask Lud if he could "see his way clear" so to speak AC ? If you know him well enough that is... He always seemed an accomodating sort.
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>> That's how I dress, nothing wrong with it!
>>
>> And the VW UP is my type of motor, wind-up windows and no remote locking.
>> Cheap and sensible.
60 mpg (in the real world), £20 a year road tax, only £8K to buy, spacious inside, nice engine, it is indeed cheap and sensible. Although if you rev the engine you need not confine yourself to sensible. Yes I do own one. :) There is a GT version coming out, with a massive 1 liter engine, that does 0-60 mph in about 8.5 seconds.
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Had a couple of email exchanges with HJ in the old days. I offered additional information for the car reviews and pointed out some mistakes. He always answered personally and thanked me for taking the time.
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HJ hits the headlines... - L'escargot
