Got me thinking after looking at the Vauxhall Heritage Centre thread.
I love 80's cars. They had enough tech to be reliable, start in the mornings, and rack up big mileages if looked after, but weren't so complex that you couldn't fix them yourself if they did go wrong.
OK, rust was still an issue with many marques, and security and crash worthiness weren't a patch on modern stuff, but on the flip side they were light, and in the case of many performance versions, left it very much up to the driver to get the best out of them. A 205 GTI had a level of tail happiness that no modern manufacturer would risk in today's litigious world, but if you knew what to expect, you could enjoy yourself in a way that a current hot hatch simply won't allow, and at far more realistic speeds for your license and the safety of other road users.
All the hot hatches of the time were tremendous. Golf GTI, Peugeot 205 GTI, Astra GTE 16v, Escort RS Turbo, all of them fast, furious and slightly wayward if pushed too hard. But there was a rawness and a thrill to them that you just don't get with the modern, heavy, sanitised, albeit quicker on paper equivalents. There were no punitive emissions regulations to meet, fuel was cheap,
A nostalgic rant perhaps, but I still find it hard to get excited about many modern cars by comparison. Do you have a favourite era, and if so, why?
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I think most people's favourite era would be closely tied in to the cars they drove after first passing their test. For me that would be 80s cars too, the designs had evolved far enough for the suspension not to need greasing every 500 miles but not so far that wear and tear couldn't be adjusted out or bodged up.
There are many aspects of cars that just get better and better though, I used to sing the praises of my '01 Octavia constantly but my Mondeo (built only 4 years later) is streets ahead in almost every area. The new cars that I deliver now are, even on a superificial level, leagues ahead of even cars designed in the 2000s.
You can't beat the 60s for looks though :)
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>> I think most people's favourite era would be closely tied in to the cars they
>> drove after first passing their test.
I certainly wouldn't want to go back to the era when I passed my test. I learned to drive in a 3-speed car which wouldn't pull at less than 20 mph in 2nd gear, and because it had no synchromesh on bottom gear you had to double-declutch (if you could!) to get into bottom gear once you dropped below 20 mph and wanted to accelerate again. The best I could afford to buy after I'd passed my test was a 20 year old car, namely a 1936 Wolseley 14.
My favourite era is right now, because cars continually improve and my income has increased such as to enable me to buy a new car.
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I agree about modern cars DP.Euro boxes.I remember as a sixteen year old getting a lift in a Dodge with push button gear change.Don't know about favorite era never thought about it.
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Mine is early to mid 90's. Modern electrics so they will always start first time, good rust protection (on some cars) and better safety. A far cry from todays standards but they were not over complicated like canbus systems.
Even I could work on the electrics on my old 1995 Fiesta (although it was an 80's design).
Modern cars are just too complex, that said I would much rather buy a new car than a 20 year old one!.
My Pandas done over 9000 miles now, virtually nothing at all has gone wrong with it and the sort of work its had to do is very punishing. Probably gone over 2000 miles of pot holes and bumps etc. Though my Panda is of 2003 design and a simple one at that.
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1968 - 1983
Fords mainly, with a smattering of others. The Mk1 escort was a peach.
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Definitely Ford's best era, with the RS Escorts, although the 80s and early 90s were also great with the best from VW ( Golf GTI Mk 2) and Vauxhall, not forgetting Alfa had some great models back then (Alfasud Ti etc)
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>>My favourite era is right now, because cars continually improve <<
I'm with this geezer.
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>> >>My favourite era is right now, because cars continually improve <<
>>
>> I'm with this geezer.
>>
+1
The past is only better through Rosy's tinted glasses..:-)
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Aaaah.... I remember Rosy....those were good days. ... :-)
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People who have a soft spot for vintage or pvt cars (or some of them), and even for obsolete technologies like the carburettor and contact breaker ignition, are seldom dumb enough to think that 'the past was better'. The point is that the past, whether better or worse, had some extremely tasty motors in it. And that's all one is saying when one drools over Bugattis, Lagondas, Speed Six Bentleys or mid-thirties Lancia Aprilias.
Of course all periods have had some fine jalopies, and it's true that modern products are preferable in many (mainly practical) ways to old ones. But it's a bit philistine to decide on that basis that modern cars are 'best'. They are best in a lot of ways, but they tend to lack soul. So this view in all its muscular utilitarianism is a bit sad looking, to me.
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>>but they tend to lack soul<<
They might lack soul m8, but they blimmin well start on the first pull every morning!
:)
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>> they blimmin well start on the first pull every morning!
Very early cars, and very highly-tuned vintage sporting machinery, can be pernickety to start, true. But any carburetted/contact breaker road car will start promptly IF it is correctly adjusted.
People make me laugh when they claim cars used to be unreliable, hard to start etc. My experience was that most cars were wildly out of tune once they were a year old, and stayed that way till they choked. I exaggerate, but only a little, and to make a particular point. Owners didn't have much of a clue, and garages didn't give a damn.
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' Owners didn't have much of a clue, and garages didn't give a damn. '
No change there then.
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... but the cars stay in tune by themselves these days: clever main engine chip, hydraulic tappets, nu contact breaker getting pitted, no carb screws to fiddle with and mess up the mixture. There's no skilled maintenance needed.
Personally I find modern electrics very difficult. But so I suspect do most garages. My man in West London is an ace with them as with everything else...
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I don't really have a favourite era.
For reliability, todays era is best, although I have a soft spot for the mid 90's machinery that the Japanese were knocking out.
I've always loved the squared off looks of the 80's cars. Audi Quattro, Mercedes W124, Volvo 850 e.t.c.
But I also loved the William Lyons era of Jaguar's.
And for sound effects you can't beat the old ones.
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>>I've always loved the squared off looks of the 80's cars<<
Actually my good man, you've just made me realise that I'm an '80's man' if anything:
BMW 3 series E30 / 5 series E28
Vulva 240 GLT 2.3i
And the Mercedes 123
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>> Actually my good man, you've just made me realise that I'm an '80's man' if
>> anything:
Hopefully Dog that didn't include the dress sense :)
If I was to run a reasonably modern classic, an E30 325i could be high on the list.
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70's for me. I was a Vauxhall fan then & my first job was in the parts dept of a VX dealer in 1977 starting just as the S plates were being prepared for 1st of August delivery!
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>>If I was to run a reasonably modern classic, an E30 325i could be high on the list<<
Automatic naturalmente por favor.
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>> If I was to run a reasonably modern classic, an E30 325i could be high
>> on the list.
>>
I'd recommend giving it a go - I ran an E30 325i Touring for almost three years, originally bought as a stop-gap, but kept as a spare/runaround/running to the tip sort of car. Cracking fun to drive; brisk rather than quick by modern standards, but lovely RWD balance and fantastic sounding BMW straight 6.
Reliable as clockwork over the time, and passed 3 MOTs with no issues and just regular maintenance. A few consumable items along the way too, and a new exhaust. In hindsight not really sure why I sold it; it seemed extravagant keeping 3 cars, but in reality is was pretty cheap to run... apart from its 23mpg thirst...
Tempted to pick up another just for fun - decent ones are going up in price, though still reasonable: tinyurl.com/bus5ndw
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>> >>I've always loved the squared off looks of the 80's cars<<
The Sierra was an 80s car. The Princess (wedge) was an 80s car. There was nothing square about 80s cars.
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The Mark III Escort was quite squared off as was the Metro. Astra Mark I (Opel Kadett D) also fairly squared off.
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>> The Mark III Escort was quite squared off as was the Metro. Astra Mark I
>> (Opel Kadett D) also fairly squared off.
Cavalier Mk1 wasn't.
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>>The Sierra was an 80s car. The Princess (wedge) was an 80s car. There was nothing square about 80s cars<<
Perhaps it was just the drivers of those cars that were square then.
:}
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>> >>but they tend to lack soul<<
>>
>> They might lack soul m8, but they blimmin well start on the first pull every
>> morning!
>>
>> :)
>>
I have never had a car that didn't start first go, and I have owned cars from 1947, 1954, 1961, 1967, 1968, 1972, 1974, 1982, 1989, 1992, and 1993.
All cars if properly maintained are utterly reliable and have been since 1945. People conspire to believe the contrary because that justifies their constant pursuit of the modern and fashionable and gives them an excuse for spending money.
I ran a 1947 car as my everyday vehicle for 10 years in the 1970s, and a 1964 Triumph 2000 for 10 years in the 1990s. I have recently aquired another for everday use as a second car.
I don't have a favourite era. I have only ever owned cars with soul that I considered to be design classics. I think though as a generalisation I don't like 50s cars, apart from XK Jaguars of course.
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>> All cars if properly maintained are utterly reliable and have been since 1945. People conspire
>> to believe the contrary because that justifies their constant pursuit of the modern and fashionable
>> and gives them an excuse for spending money.
Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong.
I had a properly maintained BL product.
Utterly reliable is a concept they had never heard of.
Humph will be on to tell you about his Espace. (he needs the therapy)
Cars are the single most unreliable consumer item.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 9 Jun 12 at 09:02
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>> Cars are the single most unreliable consumer item.
>>
In almost 25 years of driving I've never had one let me down; I'll freely admit that might be down to luck as much as it is maintenance, but as it covers a wide spread of French, Italian and German metal I'm happy enough. On the other hand I might have let a couple of them down by having an accident or two...
Over the same period though pretty much every PC/laptop I've had has needed something doing to make it function as it should, from dodgy keyboards on spectrums to the inevitable re-installation of s/w or 'rebuilding' of a laptop. So IMO the PC is the most unreliable consumer item - it's certainly the one that causes the most frustration ;-)
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The PC is NOT a consumer item. Its a massive con. It works fine out of the box, and would continue to work fine out of the box, till the costumer comes along and start mucking about with it. How reliable would a car be if you started putting more seats and extra wheels in it, adding things to the engine.
The PC was never intended to be a consumer item, nor should it be. It should be completely closed to tinkering. Soon it will be, just a terminal to the net.
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...The PC was never intended to be a consumer item...
I don't suppose the first horseless carriages were intended to be a consumer item.
Things move on, car makers no longer expect users to be mechanics.
But the makers of computers running Microsoft software still expect users to be computer engineers, or at the very least, hobbyists.
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If it's actively marketed / sold to consumers then regardless of the original intentions surely it has become a consumer item? And are you really saying a PC is reliable as long as you don't ask it to do anything ;-)
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>> I had a properly maintained BL product.
>> Utterly reliable is a concept they had never heard of.
As a student, I ran a 1970s R reg Maxi. With very little maintenance, it never broke down and lasted me into my first year of work too, until I mis-judged a corner and ripped off the suspension in one corner.
It was never terribly exciting to drive, but hugely practical.
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...All cars if properly maintained are utterly reliable and have been since 1945...
Agreed, where I think some folk get confused is the amount and type of maintenance.
Servicing now amounts to little more than an oil change every 12 or 15,000 miles.
Try that regime with an older car and it will sharp let you down.
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>> All cars if properly maintained are utterly reliable and have been since 1945.
None of the cars (all bought new) I owned from 1967 onwards, before the advent of automatic chokes and electronic ignition, were reliable starters especially in winter. If they didn't start first time the chance of having a flooded carburettor and wet plugs was very high. They were all maintained strictly in accordance with the manufacturer's schedule and I didn't own any older than about 3 years.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Sat 9 Jun 12 at 09:41
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IMHO the automatic choke was a step back in reliability. Its only since the dawn of Fuel Injection and Electronic Ignition that 100% starting in all weathers is a given.
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>> IMHO the automatic choke was a step back in reliability. Its only since the dawn
>> of Fuel Injection and Electronic Ignition that 100% starting in all weathers is a given.
>>
As witnessed by the number of classic car owners who converted their cars to electronic ignition, even when the cars were relatively new.
The auto choke on my cortina was great when the car was cold or hot, but could get confused when it was somewhere inbetween.
Mind you, the fuel injection on my mid 90s Peugeot had the same problem
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Just thinking about it now - I've only ever come to an involuntary halt once in a car and once on a bike (touch wood) - I had a chain break on a Honda 250 (split link failure) and a Nova we had in the family when its clutch cable detached itself. Oh and I had a puncture on a bike once....!
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My 1983 Sierra 1.6 with Ford VV carb and auto choke started every bit as quickly, reliably and easily in all weathers as the 2012 3 series sitting outside today. 3-4 compression strokes, and fire up.
In this respect, I think the only improvement that modern fuel injection has given us is the abolition of that initially slightly hesitant throttle response that you get on all carb'd cars when running on choke.
In terms of involuntary halts, I've been pretty lucky too. In 20 yrs of driving:
1983 Sierra - Ignition coil failure (had given warning for a few weeks before)
1985 Cavalier SRi - fuel pump relay failure (no warning whatsoever)
2000 Mondeo TD - dicky fuel gauge caused me to run out of diesel with 1/4 tank still showing.
2004 Renault Grand Scenic dCi - clutch slave cylinder failure (no warning whatsoever)
When you consider that every year since about 1997 I've done a minimum of 20k per year, and a maximum of 40k per year, I don't think that's bad going.
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Your favourite era of car - Dave_
