Further to Avant's note on Humph's thread about long term cars, I have mentioned before I like the MPV style of car due to the upright driving position. However, I don't necessarily need the car to be taller or whatever, just that the driving position is upright.
Driving the Altea, (and I am a short 5'8"), I like the fact that the angle my knee needs to go at varies from about 90 degrees to maybe about 120 or so when using the pedals. So on a long drive, one foot on the accelerator (floor hinged) and the left leg can basically do what it wants.
On my wife's Beetle, the seating position is much more slouched, knee angle is probably closer to 150 degrees or so and coming with that, its a lot less easy to get in and out.
What car do you drive and is it an upright or slouched position (not necessarily referring to your favoured position here just what position your specific car has)
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The lancer is very much a slouchers car. Low car, low seat, almost 180 degree knee angle.
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I'm a fussy beggar as usual on this one. For dashing about in city traffic I prefer the upright position and greater visibility of a tall car like the Qashqai. For long cross country hauls I much prefer to sit lower to the road in a more reclined attitude such as provided by a certain large estate car I won't mention...
:-)
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Berlingo upright, Xantia slouched. Mrs B struggles to get in and out of the Xant due mainly to being a bit short in the leg. The seat lacks under thigh support for me unless very carefully adjusted.
In spite of being slower and noisier the 'lingo is a more comfortable prospect for long journeys.
Interestingly a C3 courtesy car 2003/4 (53) last week had a driving position very similar to Berlingo. At 5foot 8 i felt very high in the cabin which of course is lower than the van based lingo.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 18 Jun 12 at 09:58
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Im a big fan of upright, MPV style seating. I dont like to slouch because it gives me terrible neck pain which Im managing to keep at bay currently so sitting upright with good shoulder support is essential.
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The sports seats in the A4 are very good indeed - the squab is height adjustable of course, but also tilt adjustable, so it's possible to have it quite low but 'lifted' at the front to provide good support. It also has an extendible squab so you can make sure the whole thigh is supported. Combined with an easy to adjust back-rest and electric lumbar support along with a tilt and in/out adjustable steering wheel and it's pretty straight forward to get a comfortable driving position. The problem is when someone else drives it and moves everything :-(
I'm not a huge fan of the elevated driving position in the larger 4x4s though - it never seems quite relaxing enough to me on long distances, and some of them are so high they must be even harder to get into than a low car I'd have thought, especially when combined with the side 'running bar' type things. An in between type car like the Quashqai (sp) would seem like a good compromise , though new cars in general are getting higher - our Meganes (previous shape) always seemed to have quite high driving positions, as do the mid size Peugeots
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Neatly avoided mentioning the "other" car Peter. Well done ! I think I mentioned it once but I'm sure I got away with it !....
:-)
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Ah yes; you noticed...very comfortable though :-) Might even be a 5/10+ years car, but best not to mention it in that thread either...
Last edited by: PeterS on Mon 18 Jun 12 at 10:53
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>> Ah yes; you noticed...very comfortable though :-) Might even be a 5/10+ years car, but
>> best not to mention it in that thread either...
>>
The flak you guys are getting anyone not in the know would think you drive BMWs with hard wired fog lights and no indicators. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 18 Jun 12 at 11:56
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Then I won't mention it either, but Peter has hit on the crucial factor, which is tilt adjustment. Humph is right that a more reclined posture is preferable for long periods - it allows the backrest to take some of the upper body's weight, whereas sitting upright transfers it vertically on to the lower spine - but without some compensatory raising of the front of the cushion, the pelvis tends to slide forward and tilt upward, which prevents the spine curving correctly.
I suspect many of those (not here, of course) who emit nonsense like "I'm 6'1" so I need the seat all the way back" either don't have tilt adjustment or would benefit from being shown how to adjust a seat properly. I'm 6'5" and if I put the seat right back in either of our cars (both big, one Swedish, one German, both tilt-adjustable for driver and passenger) then I can't reach the wheel or the pedals.
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>> I suspect many of those (not here, of course) who emit nonsense like "I'm 6'1"
>> so I need the seat all the way back" either don't have tilt adjustment or
>> would benefit from being shown how to adjust a seat properly
And proportions matter too. Sat next to each other my late sis in law and her uncle were same height. When he unfolded his legs and stood up he was nigh on a foot taller.
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They do, Bromp, but I have a 36" inside leg and can still leave 3-4 inches of seat travel unused. I can't imagine who'd need all that and still be shorter than me - maybe the uncle in your example!
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Prelude and Jaguar are more or less the same: seat back quite upright, legs and arms almost straight. Both extremely comfortable - so much so that just one of the reasons I worry about replacing the Prelude is that I won't find anything that comes close to being as good.
I'm 6ft 1in and 14st 10lb by the way.
Last edited by: Mike Hannon on Mon 18 Jun 12 at 16:47
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The BMW sits you relatively low, with your legs out quite straight in front of you, i.e. not much of a bend in the knee at all. Longest run I've done so far in a day is 430 miles, and I didn't have any aches or pains afterwards. The squab is slightly angled backwards, which brings the front edge up nicely under your thighs to give some support, but not so much that it tips you backwards. Reaching the wheel leaves a gentle bend at the elbow. The range of seat adjustment is very generous - I'm 6ft 2 and my wife almost a foot shorter, and we can both get comfy. I tend to have the seat on its lowest height setting, but apart from that, neither of us need to touch any of the limits of adjustment in any direction on the seat. One of my colleagues who has one is 6ft 6 and he fits just fine.
The Golf has a much higher driving position, with a more pronounced downward reach to the pedals and gear lever. After a spell in the BMW, it feels like you very much like you perch "on" the Golf rather than sitting down inside it. Some of this is probably an illusion caused by the much lower centre console, and lower window line, plus much less generous headroom caused possibly in part by the electric sunroof. The top of my head is only an inch or so off brushing the headlining. It is comfy enough though, apart from the over-light throttle pedal which causes your right foot to go to sleep on long motorway trips.
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Side by side comparison of the X1 and the 3 Series reveals the superior seating in the X1 - It has the optional Sports seats - a far more supportive set up with the excellent extendible seat squab and adjustable side bolsters add to that the higher seating position and it's near perfect. The 3 Series is low and has less adjustments.....The V50 is very good in all ways.
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My daily drive (indeed, my only drive these days) is a Saab 9-5 Aero, with seats that are basically a more reclined, relaxed style. The seats are fully adjustable for height and tilt. I tend to drive quite low with the wheel well down as well, and on longer journey I extend the wheel reach slightly to give me less of an arm stretch.I can drive/be driven 700 miles in a day without any discomfort.
I borrowed a Sharan a year or so ago, and didn't like the upright MPV style at all, couldn't envisage driving a journey of any length in it. Felt too much like a bus - maybe it was the red colour.
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I like the seat high and the wheel, which I hold at 7.25, low. So I have a good view and a relaxed posture. The seats in the car are firmish, leather and some sort of plastic suedette, and perfectly all right. I don't like to recline too much. Quite a few modern cars have quite poor visibility in places though - thick pillars, rear seat headrests and so on - and of course with age one's neck swivels a bit more creakingly. I tend to reverse cautiously on mirrors and the device that squeals when you get close to anything. Age.
I've never been especially bothered by hard/soft seats or anything like that. I don't have any back problems fingers crossed, and can adapt to most things. I've driven sitting on an unsecured milk crate before now, and worse probably. That said, some cars are more tiring over long distances than others.
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>> Quite a few modern cars have quite poor visibility in places though - thick pillars
Odd, I was contemplating that the other day and thinking back to the "thinness" of the pillars (and vastly improved visibility) on older vehicles that I have owned.
I can't be the only one who'd happily sacrifice an NCAP star or two for a better view of the world outside.......can I?
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I've said before that the Avensis would probably suit shorter people than me. I've managed to reach a compromise with the seat at it's lowest height which places my foot at a better angle on the accelerator. The seat squab needs to be longer. I find it a bit frustrating that Toyota didn't include a bit more adjustability to the seat considering how well everything else works on the car. The foot space around the pedals though is excellent. Their positioning in relation to the seat is good too.
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I like upright, the Vit is just right and I like to sit close to the wheel as well, being a manly 5'10". Just noticed in Dog's post about the Vitara for sale that it has seat height adjustment....never knew that, mine should as well, so will have a grice tomorrow.
Mrs Ted sits upright in the Note, I have to recline the seat a tad......too upright for me. Both cars are easy to get in and out, although she never pushes the seat back after using it.....she's about 5' 1", or she was when I last looked. My bike mate has a plumbers Bentley estate...it's like trying to get in an old Midget with the hood up !
The Jowett, like many old cars is best driven from the ' dining room chair ' position with the big steering wheel resting on my ample tum.
Ted
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I had an early Elise on an R, and despite the limited range of adjustment the position was perfect for me. I have always prefered being low down in a car...Spitfire's and Frog Eye Sprites in my early years, and being quite nimble in my early 40s the Elise was almost spot on. However, the most I ever drove it in a day was probably only 250 miles.
A later Saab 9000 with Bridge of Weir leather armchairs was probably better for rapid long hauls down to Bavaria.
Similar long hauls to ski resorts sharing driving in older Range Rovers and their ilk I found very uncomfortable.
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>> I had an early Elise on an R, and despite the limited range of adjustment
>> the position was perfect for me.
I too found the S1 Elise remarkably comfy. At least once you've managed to get in the thing! I did a 300 mile trip in one once with no problem at all. Lovely car.
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In my Focus I have the seat back leaned backwards just enough for the head restraint not to tickle the hairs on the back of my neck. I have the fore and aft position as far from the steering wheel as possible ~ I still have memories (circa 1965) of seeing a driver with the steering column stuck into his chest following a collision. I know my car has all the safety features but I just feel safer not close to the wheel ~ and it's a comfortable driving position.
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I'm over 6 feet inside leg 31 inch.I have the seat upright In the Focus.I don't like leaning to far back.I agree about the steering wheel,sat not to close to the wheel is best.
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I find some cars can set me off in all manner of spasms in my lower back and neck while others seem to fit me better.
By and large, for example, I get on very well with Fords but not with Vauxhalls. Strangely, I seem to be one of the few who can't get properly comfortable in Volvos either. I do a lot of miles though. Audis are good for me but VWs seem not so comfortable for some reason. A Skoda Octavia I hired once was really comfortable if noisy. Citroens and Renaults are downright painful for me. BMWs are ok as are Mercs but not as cosseting as I'd have hoped to be honest. Qashqai was just alright. Bit too sitty-uppy for long runs. Like trying to drive while sitting on a wobbly bar stool.
I think I must be Mondeo shaped !
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For a seat to be comfortable and healthy, the seat back needs to be in contact with your back, all the way from shoulder blades to your bum, the base of your spine should be tight into the join of seat base and backrest.
All too often this bit slides away leaving a gap. Usually because the pedals are too far away and ones slides forward to use them.
The seat should be adjusted so one can push the clutch all the way down but still leaving the knee bent.
The long arm - long leg F1 driving position is not good, not sporty and not good for control, only forced on F1 designers by the narrowness of the cockpit.
Look at any Nascar or Touring car driving position and they are always pretty close the wheels and pedals.
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Spent the last 2 days in an iX35 hire car. Has played havoc with my back, and had to stop more often than I would normally due to achy legs.
Made me appreciate how good the seats in the Volvo are.
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Mikey, so no point in asking you how you liked the ix35????
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The CC3, like most Focuses, is fairly upright which suits me.
Post hip op I've found myself tinkering with the driving position, so it looks like I now require a different position to get comfortable.
Matters are slightly complicated by the windbreak, which fouls the seat when fully back, unless the backrest is near vertical.
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>> Matters are slightly complicated by the windbreak, which fouls the seat when fully back, unless
>> the backrest is near vertical.
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The solution is simple. Don't break wind while driving. :-)
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...especially if it involves fouling the seats.
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>> Mikey, so no point in asking you how you liked the ix35????
>>
I actually wanted to like it, and a colleague has had a few on hire and rated them highly, but I was disappointed.
It was a 1.7 CRDi premium. It had twin panoramic roof, sat nav, reversing camera, keyless entry/start etc so it was a nice spec, but I found the inside a to cheap and plasticky. I really cant abide lots of plastic sprayed silver to look like metal. It had half leather, but it was more like something synthetic.
The ergonomics were awful - lots of switches in odd places, and the sat nav screen was angled in such a way that the sun light obscured the screen most of the time. Even the steering wheel controls were placed to close to the rim so you sometimes activated the cruise control, or re-tuned the radio mid corner
The engine was a bit crude and gutless, but other models may be better. Ride quality was good, handling OK, but at much over 80 it became very floaty and did not instill confidence
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I'm 5'7" with an average sized body but short legs: I like to sit fairly high but with the steering wheel low and my arms not far off straight. Sounds a lot to ask, but all Renaults, Toyotas and VAG cars have been absolutely fine.
With BMWs in order to depress the clutch fully I'm much too near the wheel; clearly they're fine for people with longer legs. I put up with it in the Z3 - somehow I'm inclined to be less fussy with an open top! If I ever have a 3-series it'll have to be an automatic.
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It's no good, Mikey. Once you've tried Swedish ergonomics, nothing else matches up, not even an - ahem - estate car.
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Unless you have a big German taxi-driver's bottom....
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Never been tempted to be honest Avant, but they do say you should try everything once just to be sure you don't like it.
:-)
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Except incest and morris dancing, Humps.
Ted
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Lots of good tips so far about how to adjust the seat for optimal positioning with regard to the steering wheel, clutch etc.
But no-one's mentioned the optimal settings for those cars that have a foot-operated parking brake. One of the German companies does this, I believe.
If only there was a forum member that had such a vehicle....
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...[try everything once] except incest and morris dancing...
So, provided Avant wasn't related to his big German taxi driver, he's in the clear.
};---)
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>> Except incest and morris dancing, Humps.
I knew someone who didn't know the difference between incest and arson. He set fire to his sister.
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"Never been tempted to be honest Avant, but they do say you should try everything once just to be sure you don't like it."
Oh, I did, I did - admittedly a B-class rather than a full-size taxi - and it was the most disappointing car I ever had (and I write as one who once had a Chrysler Horizon).
The M-word seems to be taboo on here at the moment - I think I've just about got away with it. :)
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Seating position on your car - Zero
