On Thursday of last week I saw the most incredibly dangerous driving I have ever witnessed in 25 years on the road, and even today I can't beleive the other driver is still alive (well, assuming he has not gone for another jaunt over the weekend....).
In the middle of a village a champagne coloured Nissan Micra in front overtakes another car, wide out, just at the point we are going over a railway crossing, taking the left hand bend afterwards very wide. We were going at 30 in a 30 so it looked a bit strange, especially as he could only have been doing 35mph and it took him ages to get past. Then came the interesting bit:
On the A40 Llandovery to Brecon road and in a line of traffic. About 5 cars ahead of me moving nicely at circa 50mph with a dustbin lorry at the front. Two cars ahead of me is the Micra that then decides to pull out. On a left hand blind bend. On a crest with absolutely no visability ahead. And then stays there with no power to get past the car in front and no room to get in front if he could complete the overtake anyway.
Myself and passenger are staggered, and assume doddery old person going a bit mad in their old age (as in medically mad).
Then they did it again. This time also a left-hander, downhill and again over a crest, and they got past the car, (really slowly) then forcing themselves into the line of traffic. How they did not hit anything coming the other way is a mystery to me. Cars and lorries are thundering in the opposite direction regularly. It was not a quiet day. The roads were also a bit wet and visibility poor.
The next thing we know is that the car pulls out again. This time he is going to take both the last car in front and the dustbin truck. For what seemed like an age he crawled past them both, again on a solid white lined blind bend with dips and crests. I had by now backed right off, not wanting to be involved in the inevitable smash, and both me and my colleague were waiting for a huge bang and debris everywhere. To our astonishment it didn't happen although as ashen faced Astra driver coming the other way with their high beams on told testimonny to how close it had been. We were I think too shocked and too far away to get a number-plate.
We were behind the lorry for a couple of miles more before we hit a dual carriage-way and made some progress, past Brecon and towards Abergavenny. When tootling through a village we spotted what must have been the Micra in front of the van ahead of us. Knowing that he was likely to chance it between Crickhowell and Abergavenny we were keeping a watchful eye to call the police to report him, but this time, although he weaved a bit, he didn't take any huge chances, so we could not be 100% sure it was the same car, but we were pretty sure it was. On reaching the town I decided to follow the car to see who was driving, spotting the car seat in the back at this stage. It then pulled up to parallel park in a long space. On the second attempt he parked up 2ft up on the pavement. He wound down his window and gave me a thumbs up for waiting whilst he parked. Car had this chap, his partner and two kids in the back. We were just gob-smacked, but neither of us could state 100% that it was the same car and therefre felt it was impossible to report him, but I still am fearful for the next time he ventures out.
How do people like this manage to get on the road?
I am still even now questioning if I should contact at least the local police there.
Thoughts?
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Suicidal intentions?
Your issue is you cannot positively ID the car that presumably you eventually took a reg number from as the vehicle that was being driven dangerously. Police/CPS very reluctant to pursue single complaint and you have already introduced an element of doubt.
At a glance bystanders could argue that Advanced Police driving is 'dangerous' however what they are not seeing is the drivers perspective and observations gained from positioning of the vehicle before committing to a manouvre. However on this occasion I do not think you need worry it was a Micra after all :)
However if you are really concerned yes report the incident. Others might have done so and your information would corroborate events. There might be previous reports on the vehicle/owner/driver. Nothing to loose.
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As long as another driver doesn't do something that results in me and/or my car being damaged, then I don't get involved. I've got better things to do with my time.
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>> As long as another driver doesn't do something that results in me and/or my car
>> being damaged, then I don't get involved. I've got better things to do with my
>> time.
>>
I once saw someone try to drive the wrong way down a motorway slip road into oncoming traffic - the one and only time I've called the police to let them know the reg and what was going on (the bloke turned around then weaved back through the services onto the correct carriageway). They were either drunk, or stoned, or ill.
Police operator - "Have you got nothing better to do? Are you trying to get someone into trouble?" - eventually agreed to take the details but only after taking my name, address, reg number, and license number first. Did anything happen? Doubt it. Won't bother again.
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If I thought it might save some lives, which sounds possible from your description, then I would contact the police and ask if someone could go round and have a quiet word.
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I would, too.
At least that way if you do happen to read in the papers next week about how the plank has taken out an oncoming car and killed the occupants, your conscience is clear. I would feel quite guilty if I'd seen such behaviour previously and done nothing to bring it to anyone's attention.
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>> If I thought it might save some lives, which sounds possible from your description, then
>> I would contact the police and ask if someone could go round and have a
>> quiet word.
>>
I wrote about this a while back - some guy in no state to drive trying to get into his car and drive off from the local boozer.
IF Plod has the resources, they may do something about it. If not, then 'lucky' him. OR unlicky somebody else who gets smashed into on the way home.
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>> Thoughts?
>>
Is your driving always beyond reproach? One day some busybody might report you to the police for doing something that they thought was wrong. Would you want that to happen?
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Don't agree with that attitude at all L'es, unless I'm missing something. It's a question of degree - yes, I've done 35 in a 30 and would be a bit surprised if the police came knocking on my door as a result of someone grassing me up.
But if I had driven as described by the OP, why shouldn't someone dob me in? It might save my life, the life of my passengers, and those of other road users.
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I have "dobbed in" an obviously drunk driver I was following once. After half-a-dozen miles and many clipped kerbs they were met by a police roadblock and dealt with appropriately.
I'd do the same if confronted by the behaviour described by the OP, if the maneouvres were certain to result in a serious accident.
My reasoning? One day it might be me and my family driving the other way, or one of you lot.
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Mon 25 Jun 12 at 22:43
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>> Don't agree with that attitude at all L'es, unless I'm missing something. It's a question
>> of degree - ...........
How do you decide where to draw the line as to what you would report to the police and what you would ignore?
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>> How do you decide where to draw the line as to what you would report
>> to the police and what you would ignore?
Carefully. There's no rule book. Do what you think is right.
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>> >> How do you decide where to draw the line as to what you would
>> report
>> >> to the police and what you would ignore?
>>
>> Carefully. There's no rule book. Do what you think is right.
>>
What I think is right is to mind my own business.
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Everyones moral boiling point is quite different. Mine is quite high as it happens and I will tolerate a lot before boiling. I am as likely to berate them in person (if i can catch them) as report them to police.
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>> Everyones moral boiling point is quite different.
'Boiling point' sort of implies 'I got so angry I had to report it'. But in the OP's case it wouldn't be anger, just worry that something extremely bad was going to happen.
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I kinda mean the point between shoulder shrugging and action of some kind
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Perhaps I didn't explain sufficiently. I try not to have double standards. I don't want anyone to report me to the police, and I don't report other people to the police.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Tue 26 Jun 12 at 08:13
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>> I don't want anyone to report me to the police
Neither do I. But I think that the onus is on me to try to not do anything worthy of being reported, rather than on other people to not do something which might help everyone.
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>> Perhaps I didn't explain sufficiently. I try not to have double standards. I don't want
>> anyone to report me to the police, and I don't report other people to the
>> police.
Head in sand, snaily.
Presumably you don't do much that is illegal..others unfortunately do. The Old Bill can't do it all on their own.
I'd agree with minor stuff...but where do you draw the line? if you saw someone loading firearms into the boot, in suspicious circumstances, would you ignore that?...or grabbing a screaming child?...or running out of a jewellers with a bag on their head, clutching a load of jewellery?
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The only passably sensible explanation for the driver's behaviour is that he thought he was on a dual carriageway and was simply doing a leisurely overtake in the outer lane because the traffic in the inner lane was going slowly.
It can sometimes be confusing if you have lost attention for a moment, and a dual carriageway has turned into one of those kind where the two carriageways take their separate courses, invisible to each other, especially if yours is the one following the old single carriageway road.
But no excuse for not reading the signs and keeping aware, and certainly none for what sounds like blatently suicidal behaviour.
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>> >> >> How do you decide where to draw the line as to what you
>> would
>> >> report
>> >> >> to the police and what you would ignore?
>> >>
>> >> Carefully. There's no rule book. Do what you think is right.
>> >>
>>
>> What I think is right is to mind my own business.
>>
What's your argument if 10 minutes after you decided not to report the drunk driver, he/she goes on to run over and kill a child?
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"What's your argument if 10 minutes after you decided not to report the drunk driver, he/she goes on to run over and kill a child?"
“Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes.”
― Mahatma Gandhi
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
― Benjamin Franklin
“Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves.”
― Abraham Lincoln
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>> “Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves.”
>> ― Abraham Lincoln
Does that mean that police and judges should be locked up?
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>> >> “Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves.”
>> >> ― Abraham Lincoln
>>
>> Does that mean that police and judges should be locked up?
And anyway, what would he know?
www.rottentomatoes.com/m/abraham_lincoln_vampire_hunter/
:)
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>>>> “Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes.”
>>
>> ― Mahatma Gandhi
>>
>> “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither
>> liberty nor safety.”
>> ― Benjamin Franklin
>>
>> “Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves.”
>> ― Abraham Lincoln
>>
None of those quotes relate to this context.
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Freedom`s not Free- There`s always a price to pay! - Anon 2012
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I live in Carmarthen, drive up and down that road most weeks.
If anyone thinks that the standard of driving in cities is pink fluffy dice poor, they should try using the A40 in rural Wales every day. Quite apart from the local mimsers who seem to think that the road's number is also its speed limit, it's heavily populated with Army lorries in the sector OP mentioned, and more Ifor Williams trailers than you can shake a stick at. You have to watch out or the animal feed trucks as well. ;-)
Use of indicators is not obligatory in Wales BTW, and I have a theory why this is so; it's because everyone knows everyone else, and their business, and therefore they know where everyone lives, and what car they drive, so there's no need to tell anyone which direction they're going 'cos everyone knows anyway.
As Dylan Thomas remarked, they pray on their knees and prey on their neighbours.
To summarise, SFD, you didn't see anything I haven't seen many times before.
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>> A40 in rural Wales every day. Quite apart from the
>> local mimsers who seem to think that the road's number is also its speed limit,
>> it's heavily populated with Army lorries in the sector OP mentioned, and more Ifor Williams
>> trailers than you can shake a stick at. You have to watch out or the
>> animal feed trucks as well. ;-)
When much of the traffic on the road is doing no more than 40mph (it's not the world's straightest road, is it, and an elderly landrover with an Ifor Williams behind it isn't going to do much more) then why do you expect to be able to go more quickly? There's no point in trying to go faster than the other cars. Overtaking isn't really possible these days (see OP), so just relax and enjoy the views.
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>> Overtaking isn't really possible these days (see OP), so just relax and enjoy the views.
Fortunately that isn't true. But unfortunately overtaking is much harder work than it used to be, because there's more traffic and it's worse driven: smug, stately, conceited and moronically, wilfully unaware.
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It sounds like the driver can't have passed a driving test, and is possibly new to our country. It does happen, you know!
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>> >> But unfortunately overtaking is much harder work than it used to
>> be,
>>
And largely pointless.
If you drove (or were forced to drive) 100 miles along the A40 at 40 mph it would take you 2 1/2 hours.
If by skilful overtaking and the exercise of much anxiety, frustration and stress you managed to increase your average speed to 50 mph, then it would take you 2 hours.
What valuable work would you do in your extra half hour? Sit with a black coffee or a stiff drink, fuming about the delays caused by mimsers, carphounds, and morons, while you let your bloodpressure recover?
Just in time to greet me as I roll up in cool stately smugness, having had a lovely relaxed drive with all the windows open, listening to birdsong and admiring the view, completely unstressed as I jog along behind the Ivor Williams.
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>> Just in time to greet me as I roll up in cool stately smugness, having
>> had a lovely relaxed drive with all the windows open, listening to birdsong and admiring
>> the view, completely unstressed as I jog along behind the Ivor Williams.
Does that actually happen anymore CP, or is that some kind of utopia that has long been lost to another more serene world?
:)
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>>
>>
>> When much of the traffic on the road is doing no more than 40mph (it's
>> not the world's straightest road, is it, and an elderly landrover with an Ifor Williams
>> behind it isn't going to do much more) then why do you expect to be
>> able to go more quickly? There's no point in trying to go faster than the
>> other cars. Overtaking isn't really possible these days (see OP), so just relax and enjoy
>> the views.
>>
So sorry. You're obviously better acquainted with it than I am.
Perhaps you missed the "wink" after the line about animal feed trucks. Or do cartographers not appreciate irony?
Last edited by: Harleyman on Wed 27 Jun 12 at 02:49
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Well L'Es. Frankly I drive probably like most people. I think I am safe, albeit not IAM standard. What I saw that day was far from safe. I have seen bad driving, but never anything that was like this. Call it a judgement call, and frankly it was. Having riden motorbike and cars with high miles for 25 years I probably have a good idea of bad and good and I am very happy to be judged by anyone.
I have called the police before when I have seen hay bales falling off a lorry one by one on the motorway, with the driver unaware, and have managed to stop a lorry to inform him he was on fire. I have called when I have been overtaken at well over a ton (them, not me) by a Mondeo holding at least 15 people with the rear door unlatched, and when a metal fence panel has blown off a flat bed into the overtaking lane of the M5. All those justified I think, and I think this one was too. If I drove like that I would expect to be reported.
I plan to give the local Abergavenny police a call this evening to at least mention is to keep my conscience clear if nothing else.
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>> I plan to give the local Abergavenny police a call this evening .............
However noble the motive, past experience tells me that it's not a good idea to bring oneself to the attention of the police.
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Funny you should say that L'es. About 10 years ago I was bashed by a hit and run overtaker cutting in on the way home. It was an old Montego. I followed him but abandoned after a bit of thought when he started hurtling round blind bends on an almost single track road - I didn't want the oncoming casualties on my conscience.
I had the number anyway so called the Bill. Came to my house about an hour later, and the first thing they did was check all of my documents.
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>>>>However noble the motive, past experience tells me that it's not a good idea to bring oneself to the attention of the police.
Eh? How depressing. Clearly your experience was not great.
Frankly I have never had any issues, and nothing but helpfulness.
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I'm all for you reporting it SFD. You'll feel better for it. Ignore those who post telling you you're holier than thou or you could deny someone their freedom. Utter tosh.
Better you help remove some dangerous numpty from our roads as one day they could be heading towards you or your loved ones.
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Unbelievable - Fullchat
