I don't get it. To release the electronic hand brake, you have to have a foot on the foot brake.
How do you do a hill start? (without heeling and toeing?)
(I have no FM2R...)
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The electronic handbrake will automatically disengage when you try to pull away.
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In general, is this a solution in need of a problem. Is it the result of consumers campaigning. Or is it European legislation to produce something else that will be expensive, or impossible to fix when it goes wrong.
And what happens if there is a failure?
Is it imobilised?
Can it run away?
Do I have to carry a brick to put under the wheel if I park it on a hill?
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Under the boot floor of my Large Estate Car is a folding steel chock, perhaps for just this hill-start situation. Brake hold and automatic transmission make it a bit redundant really, so would any Vauxhall owners like to make me an offer?
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>> In general, is this a solution in need of a problem.
Agreed.
>>
>> And what happens if there is a failure?
>> Is it imobilised?
The Renault system is the only one I have direct experience of, and that has a manual release mechanism under the boot floor.
>> Can it run away?
Yes - my friend woke up one morning to find his 2004 C-Max across the street, where it had rolled off his driveway overnight, and somehow miraculously missed two parked cars and any pedestrians in the area before burying itself in a hedge. The car's battery was completely flat. Nobody seemed able to answer whether the battery going flat caused the parking brake to disengage, or a fault with the parking brake caused the battery to go flat.
>> Do I have to carry a brick to put under the wheel if I park
>> it on a hill?
No, just leave the car in gear.
The Renault system was flawless in operation, and hill starts were simply a matter of pulling away. The electronics released the parking brake at the perfect time. One thing it did achieve in that car was a lovely flat floor area between the front seats, as the gear lever was also up on the dashboard. Makes sense in an MPV type car, but can't see the point when you have a dirty great centre console in place anyway.
Very surprised that my 3-series, loaded as it is with lots of unnecessary crap, has a conventional mechanical handbrake lever attached to good old fashioned cables.
Last edited by: DP on Tue 24 Jul 12 at 12:13
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The car probably has hill start assist too - if the car is on a hill and in gear to go up the hill (fwds or back) then the car holds the brakes for a couple of seconds till you pull away.
Our C4 Picasso has an electric handbrake - it takes an appreciable time to disengage so pulling away against it is a bit tricky. Needs a slightly different start technique - pull the lever for the handbrake then slot it in gear, rather than the other way around as you would do with a conventional handbrake.
I agree it's a solution looking for a problem - especially when the motor costs over £600!!
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>> The car probably has hill start assist too - if the car is on a
>> hill and in gear to go up the hill (fwds or back) then the car
>> holds the brakes for a couple of seconds till you pull away.
I only discovered the BMW had this a few weeks ago. Thought the brakes were sticking on! :-)
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>> >> has
>> a manual release mechanism under the boot floor.
>>
>> >>
So you get out of the car, open the boot, release the handbrake, and .........?
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>>
>> So you get out of the car, open the boot, release the handbrake, and .........?
>>
If you haven't left the car in gear, feel very foolish indeed.
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Toyota Hill Start just requires a firmer push on the brakes (a confirmation light comes on), and then will hold for a couple of seconds
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Outlander has conventional handbrake but according to manual etc has hill hold. Doesn't seem to work, though I have trouble testing it as I heel and toe without thinking about it.
Probably hasn't got it at all. The dealer insisted it had stop start but it definitely doesn't do that.
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I find it surprising that in spite of so many problems people still buy these cars!
This proves most people don't really care how it works!
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'This proves most people don't really care how it works!'
or if it even works !
I see numerous cars in traffic rocking backwards and forwards riding the clutch.
Don't people know what a handbrake is ?
Some drivers seem to be getting as lazy as the Americans forever using the park option instead of the handbrake.
They then get out of the car and its sitting there rocking backwards and forwards putting massive strain on the park locking pin (inside the auto box).
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What problems, Movi? Any handbrake can fail - Vauxhalls with only the rear discs for the handbrake to work on were notorious for it - hence the advice to leave any manual car in gear.
I can't argue with your second point, though, if not your reasoning. Many buyer's idea of a test drive is ten minutes in the car, with the salesman driving for half of that. Not long enough to establish whether the seat is comfortable, never mind discovering ergonomic niggles with the handbrake.
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Well I like the "electro-mechanical" ## parking brake on my car.
It works brilliantly with the automatic transmission. Just switch it on and it disengages drive and applies the parking brake for you. When when you are ready to go, squeeze the accellerator and off you go. Simples!
(I'd be a bit more wary if I had manual transmission though, TBH)
## (to use the term that the manufacturers use)
Last edited by: Londoner on Tue 24 Jul 12 at 17:30
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>> Toyota Hill Start just requires a firmer push on the brakes ...
>> and then will hold for a couple of seconds
my Escort did that when one of the brake hoses collapsed internally :)
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Tue 24 Jul 12 at 18:37
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A few months back we were in the Trafford centre... announcement asked a driver of vehicle xxxxx to return to their car. We were having a bad time in terms of family crisis (it got worse) so thought inwardly that this somehow impacted us.
Get back to the car and we're blocked in because a car is touching the bumper. The car in the announcement. On that windy day the 3 series BMW had apparently rolled back from the parking space and into mine. No visible damage as it was low speed. As in wind aided speed. Damn annoying all the same.
So normal parking brakes either fail or don't get applied properly. Mine parking brake gets applied automatically when I take the seat belt off. Or by turning off the engine (maybe not wearing it).
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Im frankly fed up with getting into customers cars to move them, always ultra modern machines and then needing to fumble about to work out the combination of actions to start the blinking thing, then release the handbrake.
They dont even standardise the systems across model ranges. I did an Audi A6, then got in a Allroad to find it was totally different yet barely a year between them.
I know the day will come when the only way to start some posh motor will be to break out into song :-/
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# why are we waiting, oh whyyyyyyyyyy are we waaaaaaiiiiittttting #
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I have driven three models of car with EPB:
- Pug 3008
- VX Vectra
- VW Passat
All disengaged parking brake without fuss. The Pug I was a little apprehensive about because I assumed it had at least auto-hold and probably auto-release. It had both. The hire company representative had no idea. And they'd just driven it!
I still think it's unnecessary but the one on the Passat works fine. Well it does so far.
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>> - VX Vectra
Insignia perhaps?
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>> >> - VX Vectra
>>
>> Insignia perhaps?
>>
Yes :-)
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>> one on the Passat works fine. Well it does so far.
My mate's Passat's EPB packed up and cost him £500 to fix!
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I have only used it on the Opel Insignia and Audi A8.
No problems at all. (TRW systems I believe)
Less chance of rolling away, because it clamps MUCH tighter and is a motor driving a worm gear, how is that going to undo itself?
A stick-type handbrake is sprung to release, that is it's equilibrium and it is held off it's equilibrium by way of a locking ratchet, single point of failure.
EPBs have no likely single point of failure which would cause an unexpected release.
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>> EPBs have no likely single point of failure which would cause an unexpected release.
In my mate's case, it was the failure of EPB not releasing. He called RAC and the man did something to temporarily disengage it so that my friend could drive away.
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Electronic handbrakes are the death of another of motoring's little pleasures; that satisfying click of the ratchet as one briskly crunches to a stop on the gravel drive outside RR Manor.
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Definitely a problem for a solution that's not needed...
Thanks for the FM link, VxFan.
Last edited by: Mapmaker on Sat 28 Jul 12 at 13:43
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Amongst the fleet cars we volunteers are driving are a few BMW 5 series, which have the electric hand brake.
One let go yesterday, and the car rolled into a low wall before the driver (not me - I stick to the 3 series as much as poss) could get the footbrake on. No damage to speak of, but the paperwork is becoming a nightmare, apparently.
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The wind at the Trafford Centre blew a 3 series into my car a few months ago. So don't assume the 3 series BMW is any better.
Today I learned two things about the EPB on my car. When the driver's door is not properly closed (maybe any door?), the EPB won't release. And when the ignition is off you cannot release the EPB - enhanced security then?
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My FiL's new 3 Series has a traditional handbrake.
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I think all 3 series have a traditional handbrake - I didn't say they had an EPB :-) But one of these still rolled/got blown into mine despite having the parking brake applied. It was windy on April 29th.
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If you drive off the handbrake releases automatically. If you want to release it manually then you need your foot on the foot brake but don't do that for upbank. If you're going down bank then I'd use the manual release and use brakes as normal. If up bank then just drive off and it should release of its own accord. I had an insignia for a couple of days and it was peasy. My drive is very slopey and it was fine.
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>> (I have no FM2R...)
>>
You can download a Vauxhall owners' manual as a pdf. tinyurl.com/bt64wzd
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>> You can download a Vauxhall owners' manual as a pdf.
He already knows ;)
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?t=11363&m=252076&v=e
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What a ghastly system. The jerk as the brake releases as you set off is not a normal part of my driving style. Maybe it could have been got used to, but life is too short. Heel and toe it was.
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>> What a ghastly system. The jerk as the brake releases as you set off is not a normal part of my driving style.
The Transit connect at work has a normal handbrake, but has hill start assist. I agree, the jerk as the brake releases is horrible and try as I might I cannot perfect the perfect launch. I have since gone into the vehicle comp menu and disabled hill start assist.
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The VW EPB releases smoothly. Auto hold works well - and doesn't use the EPB. It just holds the brakes on.
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>> The VW EPB releases smoothly.
+1
If VW can get it right, why can't Vauxhall / Opel?
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No idea - but if they all worked like the VAG ones then few would complain. You can hear it engage when you put it on manually. If I am stopped for a short time I don't put it on I confess - autohold works well enough. I suppose I should really.
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>>I have since gone into the vehicle comp menu and disabled hill start assist.
Hope you've remembered to mention that small point to the other users of the van? Just saying...
:-)
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>> Hope you've remembered to mention that small point to the other users of the van?
The other main user hates it just as much, and anyone else that might occasionally use it probably wouldn't even know it had hill assist.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 30 Jul 12 at 21:13
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I've been using my wife's astra elite this week and i must say the epb is not intrusive or annoying.
i really have difficulty understanding why people dislike them. it disengages when i pull off and it is instant and i don't feel it happening , its the same with hill start, i find it OK, its not needed but isn't a problem in any way. and on another thread this car has the leather sports eats and they are Very comfortable and supportive. i drove it to Lincoln last week with my wife driving my xj and the astra was great and pretty rapid when needed.
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Always worked perfectly for me. Don't use the accelerator, let the computer feed the power in and it's smooth as silk.
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FF - does that work even on a steep slope? Does the computer prevent you from stalling the car?
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>> FF - does that work even on a steep slope? Does the computer prevent you from stalling the car?
The computer should detect the engine revs have dropped and adjust them back up again. Provided of course you let the clutch up slowly and not just dump it.
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Vauxhall - Vauxhall electronic handbrake and hill starts - rtj70
