It looks as if Honda will no longer market the Accord in the UK. Seemingly, the sales have fallen to about 2,500 per year and Honda feesl it is no longer viable in the UK.
tinyurl.com/blj5bo6
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Perhaps if were priced at a sensible level it might being selling more.
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That is the the problem - The Accord is made in Japan and the RoE makes all Japanese goods prohibitively expensive to import. Canon are having a very bad time for the same reasons.
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It can't just be price, though. Bentleys are expensive but they still sell because people want them; it's not clear who is supposed to want an Accord. It's targeting a conservative market for biggish family cars, but the current one has fussy styling features that put such buyers (potentially including me) off. It seems like a baby-and-bathwater situation, in which someone at Honda fretted about its buyers getting old, then thought the way to attract younger ones was to dress the thing up like a computer games machine. Didn't work - and in the process alienated the comfortably-off family buyers who used to buy them.
A pity. Honda seemed hi-tech and aspirational in the late 1980s - I really fancied a Prelude but couldn't afford one. Now I just don't know what it's for.
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What are the "fussy styling features?"
Most reviews like the look of the Accord Tourer. I have one that I bought new in 2004. Apart from a problem with the tailgate it has been a great car. As it's coming up to nine years old I was looking to replace it with another Accord, and I've been hanging on for a new model to come out. Looks like I'm going to be disappointed. However, the new CR-V will be out in October, and if the report in Autoexpress is true - less drag; better fuel consumption and lower emissions - I shall go for that.
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There is more to it than RoE. Even with that, it is still cheaper than the German brands that it targets as competitors. Hondas are good cars, but their dealers play hardball and the punters know that for just a little bit more they can get the Audi/BMW/Merc badge.
Honda have also done a pretty good job of driving customers away from the Accord in recent years. E.g.
* They were in denial about diesel engines for a long time. This didn't hurt them in the US, but Europe is different.
*They were late in offering an automatic gearbox to go with the diesel engine. If you want to compete in the executive sector you have to offer automatic transmission.
* The Auto box, when it eventually arrived, had only 5 gears. That's all you probably really need, but in this segment you need to offer more gears for the bar-stool braggarts.
* Not enough space. The saloon is too cramped compared to rivals and the estate too small (check out the figures).
* Looks. The present models are bland but OK. The previous model estate was hideous. Looked like a hearse.
It's really quite sad, because the Accord does brilliantly in reliability surveys, but at least Honda have decent offerings in other market segments.
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Fussy details? Outside we have the over-emphasized wheelarches and the faceted bumpers; inside is too much painted plastic highlighting, especially around the centre panel. If understatement is a virtue, this is the opposite and it doesn't work for me.
If you've got one and like it, no problem - but it's not you that Honda has to convince. But loyal customers need to be looked after too: look what happened to Saab when it went after Audi and forgot why people bought 900s instead.
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>>but at least Honda have decent offerings in other market segments.
No - they've systematically shrunk their range.
No people carrier.
No sports car (CR-Z? ahahahaha)
The have a supermini and small family hatch, and the CRV.
The Accord is an also-ran, probably not far from the Korean large saloons for sales volume.
Honda need a turbo-petrol.
Fast.
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Yup. It's a shame. If ever a company lost its way it's Honda. And I feel qualified to comment, having been buying them on and off since 1966.
By coincidence, earlier today I was showing a friend some old photos, many of Hondas I used to own, that I really liked and that Honda dropped - Preludes, hatchback Accords, the 3-door Accord Aerodeck, the Legend coupe, the Shuttle...
I might still buy a latest generation but one Accord saloon and the fact that it is made in Japan is one of the reasons I'd want it.
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I get the impression Honda arn't bothered by market share, and therefore only sell a model in a particular market if it can sell profitable. This has always been the case - ther are at least a couple of 4x4s that they never launched in the UK.
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Honda has definitely lost the plot...........no sports car, no MPV. Civic is marmite ish - a few years back there were several models - saloon, hatch, coupe now just one shape. Accord is/was overpriced. CRZ/insight not mainstream cars
That said I have bought one of the run-out CRVs - would have liked the new one but the discounts on the old model - top of range EX/2.0 Auto....lots of toys £20K. A new one might be £31-£32K with even more toys but the price difference is huge.
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So if 2500/yr is low volume, how much Honda expected it to be?
I also think Honda lost interest in UK market. May be because Hyundai-Kia is going to be next Honda here :-)
Incidentally Honda is also going to run 4-days a week schedule in their production plant (heard on radio) due to lack of demand.
Last edited by: movilogo on Fri 27 Jul 12 at 16:42
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>> Honda has definitely lost the plot
So who is to blame? The marketing men? Why can't they see what the British want in a car and continue to produce small estates like the aerodeck and hatchbacks like the old Accord's? Or did they think that the bet would pay off and people would start buying an executive Accord with a boot or an ugly hearse style estate by the thousands rather than BMW's and Audi's with the option of a compact or large estate? Get real.
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Other large estate cars are available.
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>> Other large estate cars are available.
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A number of them are disappearing though, ie Renault dropping the Laguna.
I read the other day that Honda is putting the Swindon plant (Civic Jazz and CRV) on reducing working for the rest of the year.
Wifey is on her second Jazz and someone rang (I think a marketing company working on behalf of our local dealer) asking if we'd consider swapping it for a new one. 'Sure' I said, 'if you can blow my socks off'. I then got an email saying someone would call me at a specific time and date. They never did.
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>> ie Renault dropping the Laguna.
In the UK only I thought. The Laguna is still a current model.
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Problem is UK is a tiny market for Honda, what the UK motorist is after is of little consequence in the big global scheme of things, US market is where it's at for Honda, plus emerging Asia etc. Same story for motorbikes.
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I would say the bike market was the opposite.
The UK bike market is, generally speaking, sports bike driven. Honda have the two Rolls-Royce models, the Fireblade and the CBR600. They've always been looked upon as the quality option, not always the fastest.
Honda, Renault, Nissan they have all made a retreat from the mainstream family hatchback and larger cars concentrating on the niche markets.
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>> Problem is UK is a tiny market for Honda
But they build a lot of cars here. And the Accord if built in Japan will already be RHD.
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I gues the JPY:£ exchange rate has a lot to do with it - 10 years ago there were roughy 160 yen to the pound, rising (or falling, depending on you perspective...) to around 200 at one point. It's currently around 120 I think. No wonder importing cars from Japan is either expensive or unprofitable
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As we've seen with a Japanese dominant bike market 1000cc bikes have gone from roughly £9k to £11k in the space of less than three years,
Can't do that with cars because the market is not dominated by them.
But, the UK bike manufacturers have jumped on the back of the Japanese dominance, hiked prices, and refuse to negotiate. Therefore there must still be room in the market for negotiation if the Japanese are still prepared to drop prices to make the sale.
Last edited by: gmac on Fri 27 Jul 12 at 23:05
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>> .. US market is where
>> it's at for Honda,
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Amazing the range of cars they offer in the US. automobiles.honda.com/
US Accord has been a best seller there for years. They also have a car very like the BMW 5GT - Honda Crosstour.
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But they also built the cars for the USA in the USA. Makes a differences. Same goes for others like Toyota with the Camry and Mazda.
I'd thought my next car could be the next Mazda6 if it looks similar to the concepts.... I wonder if it will work out too expensive... then again the Passat is £29k (ish) and the current version the same as mine is about £31k
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You'll have the new Mondeo.
I just priced the current model today in the online configurator, 2.0 240PS estate with a few extras not gone daft, 41k€
Last edited by: gmac on Fri 27 Jul 12 at 23:42
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I might have all sorts - my car is due for replacement in 2014. The Passat CC might have done 25,000 miles or more by then. A bargain for someone I suppose at auction.
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What I meant by my comment is any private motorist thinking of replacing their vehicle soon might want to have a look at the online configurator of their manufacturer of choice for various European markets and convert back to £'s.
Manufacturers tend to fix their prices at the start of the year. Current € prices for vehicles manufactured in € zone might give an idea where the price is headed next year.
By 2014 the whole lot could be in the toilet, you might be looking at a Raleigh for replacement transport.
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>> By 2014 the whole lot could be in the toilet, you might be looking at
>> a Raleigh for replacement transport.
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Not if car manufacturers want to sell cars.
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>> I'd thought my next car could be the next Mazda6 if it looks similar to
>> the concepts....
Nice looker! What would you go for - the saloon or the estate?
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Tourer, tourer, tourer!
If I won the lotto tomorrow, I'd have the Accord Tourer in the garage.
And the diesel story - the new Civic with a diesel? Superb.
"Honda’s wonderful 2.2 turbo diesel. Yes, the petrol version is brilliant, the 6-speed diesel-engined Exclusive is something else… With 110kW and 350Nm of torque, the top-of-the-range powerplant gives incredible economy – Honda claim 4.7l/100km on the combined cycle. We managed low 6s, and weren’t hanging about.
At 120km/h, the diesel ticks over well below 2000rpm in sixth gear, making the Civic a relaxed open-road option. The torque available makes overtaking easy, and because of the enhanced aerodynamics, there’s very little noise intrusion into the cabin, even on rougher surfaces."
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>> and because of the enhanced
>> aerodynamics, there’s very little noise intrusion into the cabin, even on rougher surfaces."
Eh?
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>> >> and because of the enhanced
>> >> aerodynamics, there’s very little noise intrusion into the cabin, even on rougher surfaces."
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>> Eh?
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Road noise. Absolute flat undertray and some serious new bushes on the rear suspension mean that the thumps and bumps don't sound so bad. Also, change of surface - which happens a lot here, from flat tarmac to rough (thus water-shedding) roads means that the smooooth ride often turns into GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.
The Honda is the quietest car in this respect I've ever driven.
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had a look at the honda us site, the jazz is tempting so is the cng honda civic, its tempting to buy the car and import it here, what other costs are associated with this, would honda uk service the us import car and honour any warranty issues?
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You might want to check with Honda uk for the US, but the last Cyprus import CRV I had came with a worldwide warranty, the only difference between that and the Uk warranty being it was for 60000 rather than 90000 miles - so not identical.
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>> had a look at the honda us site, the jazz is tempting so is the
>> cng honda civic, its tempting to buy the car and import it here, what other
>> costs are associated with this,
Well you have shipping, you have the costs of making it uk road legal, VAT, you have increased insurance.
>>would honda uk service the us import car
Yes/No/maybe. Depends not he car.
>>and honour
>> any warranty issues?
No.
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Nice lease deal on the Honda US site - no deposit and $250 a month for 36 months. Lot of car for around £165 a month.
I think Honda lots it a bit in the UK when the partnership with Rover ended........no, I'm not joking.
Honda gained a lot of understanding of what the UK market wanted, and made some decent cars. A bit of Rover design coupled with Honda reliability was a winning combination.
The model range now has a few gaps in it, for example they axed the only MPV they had - the FRV, and in the same time Ford has added to its MPV line up
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>> Road noise. Absolute flat undertray and some serious new bushes on the rear suspension >> mean that the thumps and bumps don't sound so bad.
I certainly hope so, my experience of the previous European Civic was that the suspension was dire.....
I have to admit that whilst over in the UK I saw quite a few of the new Civics on the road and they look nice (to my eyes), however experience of the previous model and dealer service would make me think twice before considering one.
I went to a consumer launch of the current Accord Tourer (had an A4 Avant at the time), I liked it but couldn't justify the (then - 2008 IIRC) premium pricing.
Last edited by: idle_chatterer on Sun 29 Jul 12 at 06:22
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Do you get offered the 2.2 diesel with automatic transmission in SA, or is it manual only?
(Can't consider a manual transmission long-term for medical reasons)
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Yep. 5 speed auto, 6 speed manual.
Absolutely loaded with kit as well.
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Another factor is the CO emissions.
I ran a 2004 Tourer for 4 years, lovely car, 2.2 diesel with emissions of 155g/km, 30 or so lower than VWs were then.
Eight years on and my new Passat is 119g/km for the 2.0 diesel, the Honda is still 155g for the tourer - along with the increased list price it makes it prohibitively expensive as a company car.
A 520ED will be cheaper to run as a company car and Honda wonder why Accords are not selling.
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The CO2 focused car market of 2012 demands up to date diesel engines, and efficient, small capacity direct injection turbo petrols. Honda has neither. Excellent pieces of engineering as Hondas are, they have failed to read the direction of the European car market, and have sat back while their rivals have given the market what it demands. 155 g/km of CO2 is the best part of a third over the odds these days for a 140 bhp diesel engine, and needing 2.2 litres to get it is also the stuff of previous generations.
To put that into context, Renault have just launched a 1.6 diesel with 130 bhp and which, even in a 7 seater Grand Scenic emits just 115g/km of CO2. BMW will sell you a 182 bhp 2.0 diesel with 119g/km.
And nobody wants the tax implications of a 2.0 NA petrol engines any more, for heaven's sake.
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>>To put that into context, Renault have just launched a 1.6 diesel with 130 bhp and which, even in a 7 seater Grand Scenic emits just 115g/km of CO2. BMW will sell you a 182 bhp 2.0 diesel with 119g/km.
And Mazda have a CRV-sized car (CX-5) with a 2.2 turbo diseasel putting out 148 and 173bhp, and <120g/km CO2.
Engine size isn't so important when the gearing and engineering is right, and of course when you cheat by tuning cars for the tests.
Real world Honda diesel mpg is much the same as the competitors - but as you say Honda have not pulled the finger out.
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Following on from the above, I went after a fully loaded, low mileage, 2.4 petrol automatic Accord the other day but didn't get my finger out because I figured nobody in the UK was interested in that sort of thing any more. It sold straight away - not to me unfortunately.
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According to Autoexpress, Honda are bringing out a new CR-V in October with lower emissions and improved fuel consumption. There will also be a new 1.6 diesel engine.
If the Accord doesn't emerge then I'll go for the CR-V, if the fuel consumption matches my Accord.
Last edited by: Robbie34 on Tue 31 Jul 12 at 10:28
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Fully loaded as in with ADAS, Mike? That's a lovely system, and I'd have bought one myself if I could have lived with the road noise, just for ADAS.
However, now I'm used to 60mpg plus on unleaded, it's REALLY hard to get back into the mindset of a 35mpg (at best) car. Sigh.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Tue 31 Jul 12 at 10:49
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Sorry to confuse. Don't know what ADAS is. Don't forget, to me 'fully loaded' means anything north of anti-lock brakes. It did have the beeper that goes off when you reverse too close to something and lots of gizmos I've never owned including 'satnav'. Unfortunately, no Honda that I know of now has genuinely useful things like 4-wheel steering. I'll really miss that.
I can live with effortless progress and not having to steer 6 gears around at 35mpg. My son has a top of the range Jazz that does over 50mpg at the expense of screaming its head off most of the time.
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Ah. Well ADAS can only make your progress more effortless then...
adaptive cruise, so it automatically keeps a set distance from the car in front whatever it does, including braking as needed, and lane assist, so it will gently steer you back on course if you start to drift out of position on the motorway.
Point and steer is all you need to do to get from A to B, generally. Involving? Nope.
Or buy a lovely Lexus GS, similar money, same toys, nicer all round, similar mpg etc.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Tue 31 Jul 12 at 15:35
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Honda Accord Tourer - End Of The Accord? - Zero
