I look on the other side regularly.
This article blamed part worn tyres for the appalling injuries suffered by the car owner.
www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/legal--motoring-advice/2012-08/driver-paralysed-by-part-worn-tyres/
My point is the part worn tyres are not necessarily 100% to blame - he bought part worn and did not replace them when they deteriorated. If he had bought new tyres and allowed them to wear down it would have the same effect.
Today and everyday, people buy part worn tyres - either out of choice or they buy a 2nd hand car.
The findings in the above named report were based on an article by a tyre manufacturer.
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>> My point is the part worn tyres are not necessarily 100% to blame - he
>> bought part worn and did not replace them when they deteriorated. If he had bought
>> new tyres and allowed them to wear down it would have the same effect.
That sort of rubbish annoys me. The crash had nothing to do with part-worn tyres, and everything to do with worn-out tyres.
"Though the rear pair had only been fitted a few months previously, they were already down to an illegal tread depth."
But I'm not sure why anybody expected journalistic integrity from the other side.
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My tyres are part-worn, and I only bought them last year!
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Keith had always bought part worn tyres and replaced them every few months, unaware of the safety risks of buying used tyres.
I think he knew plenty about them if there replaced that often.
I used to sell part worns when i worked for a well known fast fit after i left school they came off customers cars with a nail near the side wall or told them cords sticking out etc, we sold them £5.00 per tyre back then to the garages they were repaired and used again without problems.
Plenty went on my own cars and family and friends etc all fine.
What he should have done was fit all season tyres back in Feburary when the country was down to -5.!!
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>> My tyres are part-worn, and I only bought them last year!
Mine too, I'm generally using part worn tyres. Reckless really.
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Sometimes despite the warnings I continue using a part worn tyre up to the day before I decide to scrap it.
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I took a gamble with the astray and brought two part worn tyres at £30 each.
I think they are perfectly fine.
I did ask where the tyres come from and was told that they come from Germany.
the Germans get a discount for exchanging their summer tyres for winter tyres.
then the garage gets them from Germany.
nothing wrong with them and the most worn tyres was down at 7mm.
I am not too sure but doesn't Germany have tighter limits for tread wear ?
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I meant to say on the astra.
some time the spell check wins
Last edited by: diddy1234 on Fri 10 Aug 12 at 15:51
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I took a bigger gamble than Diddy by buying FOUR part-worn tyres - and a fifth in the boot of the part-worn car they were attached to. In that context, the opprobrium we tend to heap on part-worns seems rather overdone - so why will I be buying new Michelins when these Hankooks and Nexens wear out?
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The only issue with part worn tyres is that you don't know their history. So maybe they took a bang and you don't know.
Mind you, that's true of every second hand car you've ever bought, every car that has ever been driven in your absence and every car you've ever travelled in that was not yours.
I have used and continue to use part worns when it suits. I'd wouldn't use worn out tyres. A difference already well pointed out.
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The main thing that'll tip me off a wet road is my tyres, they're the only thing between my car and the slippery road.
I never scrimp on them, always buy new and always have a decent make that my car's marque recommends.
Anything under 3mm and I'm getting itchy about replacing them. If it's summer and generally decent weather, I might go to 2.5mm before changing, but rarely any longer than that.
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>> The main thing that'll tip me off a wet road is my tyres, they're the
>> only thing between my car and the slippery road.
>>
>> I never scrimp on them, always buy new and always have a decent make that
>> my car's marque recommends.
>>
>> Anything under 3mm and I'm getting itchy about replacing them. If it's summer and generally
>> decent weather, I might go to 2.5mm before changing, but rarely any longer than that.
>>
+1
Under 3mm is lethal in snow or ice or heavy rain - which means three months of the year normally but 8 months of this year so far ...
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And me. Even as a broke spotty youth on a motor-bike, never cut corners on tyres, brakes or lights.
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>>I never scrimp on them,
>>
I do not scrimp on them either but I am not going to spend hard earned £££s on top brand tyres thT are rated for 186 mph especially as I will not be driving abroad in my car.
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>>...always buy new and always have a decent make that my car's marque recommends.
>>
I have always bought new. I bought a pair last month but after reading various reports and comments I did not buy the make recommended.
For my model Jaguar it is Pirelli. They appear to wear badly and are very noisy when new and worse when they are worn down to 3mm.
For some markets the book says Contis. Newer Jaguar models use Dunlop.
I fit so called cheap Khumos at approx £100 a corner. I have done for several years.
The tyres are the correct rating and reading about the company and its products I consider I am getting a good quality tyre, more than adequate for the task at a sensible price.
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So, if money was an issue, would the panel a) spend £100 on a brand new, but speed inappropriate, budget tyre, or b) spend £100 on a part used premium tyre?
Me, I'd go with b).
I know its possible, although not likely, that b) has had a tough life, but its a dead cert that a) is limited performance.
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Speed ratings have little to do with real-life performance of a tyre.
It means it won't delaminate at XXXmph. You don't drive at XXXmph.
Plenty of Linglong/Chingchong/Goodride tyres out there rated W and Z that I wouldn't use to wipe my bum let alone put on my car.
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>> it won't delaminate at XXXmph. You don't drive at XXXmph.
Quite right. And conversely, tyres can go faster than their rating and get away with it if they are inflated decently hard and the wheels properly balanced.
You think there isn't a big failsafe margin? Course there is.
But you're right Lygonos, few go as fast as their cars can go in today's world.
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Is it just delamination then, no question of high speed stability?
I might buy a 150mph car rather than a 75mph car, even though I only ever drive at 70mph just so that I am well within its capabilities. Is it not similar for tyre performance?
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It's not that simple - I'd rather do 80mph on a 112mph rated Michelin than a Mach 4 rated Linglong.
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>> I fit so called cheap Khumos at approx £100 a corner. I have done for several years.
Where do you buy yours, h?
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>> >> I fit so called cheap Khumos at approx £100 a corner. I have done for several years.
>> Where do you buy yours, h?
>>
Berkeley MoT at Cranford order them for me and then fit them.
They have a basic bay for tyre fitting but IMO do a good job.
Even though it is a trek to get there, I am happy to support their business as I have done for many many years. I really appreciate a stand alone friendly MoT outfit.
I am pretty certain I could source the tyres cheaper elsewhere but I have not bothered to search.
The usual disclaimer - I am just a happy customer with no connection to them.
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No FM2R is quite correct in the fact that you don't know the history ! they may of already been across a kerb at high speed and suffered damage.
The guy had assumed wrongly that the tyres would last a while ! not weeks but will have a reminder of cheap tyres for life now !
many years ago as a service manager I made a big error. We had a Cavalier booked in for 4 new tyres, but had to make a judgement call as the tyres were only half worn. Unable to get hold of the client we didn't fit the tyres ! When he returned and I explained why we didnt replace them he told me he had lost 3 of his family members to a blow out on a motorway attributed by the condition of the tyres !
he was clearly distressed and I wanted to dig a big hole and jump in ! I took him home and stayed behind and fitted 4 tyres and delivered back.
I have never bought cheap tyres or part worn ! when I had a serious accident I had just had 4 new tyres and I reckon that helped save me from even worse injuries as the car did what it should of done.
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I only looked at part worn tyres after finding out that the astra,s recommended tyres cost £130 per wheel.
the way the wife drives it I can't justify that kind of money.
OK not as costly as some cars (ford focus sport comes to mind at £195 each).
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Goodness me ! The 225/17s Conti Run Flats for the 3 series were only a 128 quid from MyTyres..
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I bought four part worns for my old beemer when I changed the alloys from 15 to 16 in, because I didn't want to pay out for four new tyres. I got a slow puncture on one of them and it went back to the tyre fitters about three times to be repaired, the reason being it had a previous moody repair that was difficult to put right.
If I was to do it again I'd buy four good mid budget tyres. I'd be more likely to go from a larger diameter to a smaller diameter though - ride is most important to me now.
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>>Mind you, that's true of every second hand car you've ever bought,
>>
Certainly true re all by S/H buys except my Mondeo which had all new boots on it.
The wheels were all good but the tyres were cheap and only when I changed them did I realise how noisy the cheapies had been.
>> every car that has ever been driven in your absence and every car you've ever travelled in that was not yours.
>>
True . We will all be having sleepless nights
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From the article: "It’s impossible to know the history of part worn tyres and the true extent of any damage which may have occurred inside the tyre"
True. Did they come off a wrecked car?
Was the previous car's tracking, alignment etc set up properly?
I had 2 'new' tyres - allegedly 20 000kms on them - delaminate on me. Not my car, but the alignment hadn't been done since the tyres were fitted a few thou before. Pretty damn frightening getting a wobble at speed, and I was stuck at 60km/h for two hours to the next town, then $$$ to replace and realign everything.
I will take many 'used' parts for repair, but tyres or brake components are a no-no.
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I used often to buy secondhand tyres, not having Lud's money and quite often having cars that simply didn't deserve new boots (or panties come to that). Only once had a high-speed blowout, and that was a worn-out Michelin X on the o/s back of the car when I bought it. What's more I had ample warning that something was amiss, but ignored it. Won't do that again, although no harm resulted that time. A front one in a fast bend might have been another matter.
But some twenty years ago or more, the more respectable sort of tyre place started saying they 'weren't allowed' to sell secondhand tyres any more. I still don't believe them, but I don't blame them really either. It's grotty work.
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As money gets tighter people cut corners on things like tyres. They don't really consider the implications of their actions...
Mind you, two 235/18s for the X3 yesterday were a sobering 190 quid each. And a free flat battery cos the fitters left the ignition on and didn't even notice the auto-headlamps shining at them in the workshop...
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A good tyre place won't sell a dangerous tyre, and close inspection and testing will weed those out. Always worked for me.
Does anyone else remember tall thin perished crossplies with big lumps in the sidewall and even the tread? You put a sticky canvas gaiter inside where the lump was and hoped for the best. Shudder...
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Buying a part worn tyre is no more or less risky that buying a secondhand car and not changing the tyres immediately.
Someone who instantly changes all the tyres on any secondhand car he or she acquires may have some foundation for commenting negatively on part worn tyres. But I doubt anyone on here does that.
Again, this is not the same as tyres which are worn out or close to it.
I have put part worn tyres intended for high speed onto vehicles capable of high speed before now. I have never (not true, I mean since I got older, more sensible and more able to afford) used a vehcile with worn out tyres. I frequently use vehicles with part worn tyres. Some of them original to the vehicle, and some of them not.
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>> I have never (not true, I mean since I got older, more sensible and more able to afford) used a vehcile with worn out tyres.
Quite. One may miss those bald tyres on a greasy roundabout exit when feeling sprauncy, but letting your wife or children loose in such a car is another matter. One is obliged to keep the thing respectable to protect their limbs or at least blushes ('What's this then madam?" 'Er... dunno officer.')
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>> Buying a part worn tyre is no more or less risky that buying a secondhand
>> car and not changing the tyres immediately.
>>
>> Someone who instantly changes all the tyres on any secondhand car he or she acquires
>> may have some foundation for commenting negatively on part worn tyres. But I doubt anyone
>> on here does that.
We did!
Our used Panda had an odd mix of tyres on it when we bought it. All legal, though some by a smallish margin. All would probably have been OK for an MOT next year, given our low use these days.
We changed 'em all, in two batches, as finances were available and had 4 new Goodyear rain experts on within three weeks. Mind you the tyres were only a smidgen over £44 each, fitted!
The tyres on the car we PX'd would have been well over a ton apiece, which bizarrely, in some respects, was just one of the factors we took into account when deciding to downsize.
SWMBO loves the Panda - I miss the Alhambra!
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>> remember tall thin perished crossplies with big lumps
Yes, I have done the gaiter thing and many a crossply tube repair with my own hands. You could cope with crossply covers with levers and a bit of violence. I wouldn't recommend tyre fitter as a career to anyone though, even with all this modern equipment. Violence is still needed, and it's filthy work.
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My comment about my secondhand car was more t-i-c than some seem to think. The car came from the manufacturer's Approved Used programme, which went as far as fixing the little motors that lift the luggage cover out of the way, never mind checking that the tyres were adequately safe.
If money is tight, prioritize. That means save money somewhere else and buy tyres you know you can trust. I've been there with my Volvo; I bought P6000s at a special offer price, not because they're the best tyres for the car but because their shortcomings are not safety related. I've since discovered that not only are Primacy HPs nicer in every respect, they're cheaper too because they last much longer.
Part of my reason for choosing the LEC I did was that the 225x16 tyres are 'only' £135 apiece for Michelins; the Sport version requires 245x18 at £250. If replacing tyres causes money worries, you have the wrong car.
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My second car (in 1956) had completely treadless (yes, no tread whatsoever!) remoulded/retreaded tyres when I bought it and the same tyres when I sold it. It made a lovely howling noise when cornering. That was the way things were in those days.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Sat 11 Aug 12 at 08:59
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...That was the way things were in those days...
I saw a few come into the garage for service running on the canvas.
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Local Driving instructor fits part worn to his learner's car - new £100+ and 2nd hand £30-£40 - he claims that this is safe and save him a fortune when the learner bashes the kerb.
Tyres looked OK
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>> I saw a few come into the garage for service running on the canvas.
>>
That is extremely common.
IMHO a lost worse than using second hand tyres (which I do, but do demand I pick the ones I want fitted) is something as basic as the extended service intervals.
It would shock the members here, if they saw what I see on almost a daily basis.
That is, high performance cars, with under 1mm tread, or even canvas showing.
These cars can knock out tyres in less than the service intervals - and they are invariably fitted with 'tyre monitor systems' so the drivers would never think to look at the tyres.
its not using preworn tyres thats the issue - its using WORNOUT or damaged tyres that is......
(often, the only reason we see these cars in, is because a warning lamp shows on the dash..... that being the traction control lamp! )
Last edited by: swiss tony on Sat 11 Aug 12 at 09:46
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when it come time to change my tyres, I found out that even the budget tyres are better than the original hankook tyres.
those factory standard tyres were lethal in the wet and could aquaplane easily.
the budget tyres are a lot better.
the Rio still handles bad so maybe the next time I change tyres I will go for the expensive tyres at £70 each.
Last edited by: diddy1234 on Sat 11 Aug 12 at 10:34
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Tyres are indeed a vital and fundamental factor in the driving dynamics of a car. We forget though in this discussion that the intrinsic capabilities of a given make and model of vehicle also play a part.
I used to buy 6 tyres a year on average when I was running my own cars for business use. Two sets of fronts and one set of rears usually. Almost always I'd buy brands which I at least recognised but on one occasion when all 4 were needing to be replaced and the piggy bank was a bit low I bought a set of Singalongamax or something for one of my Mondeos.
They were noticeably noisier and indeed wet grip wasn't as good but the car still handled better than the Signum I had at the same time which was fitted with "premum" tyres.
The basic set up of the Ford was so far in advance of the Vauxhall in road dynamics terms as to still be a better drive on its cheapies than the Signum was on expensive rubber.
Still went back to Pirellis or somesuch the next time the Ford needed tyres.
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Humph, are you suggesting that even four new Michenentarelli Megasticky 2000s might not make a Kia Rio the last word in refinement and driving dynamics?
};---)
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Not suggesting anything really. Just a tale of personal experience. Seems to me it's not an entirely one dimensional thing anyway.
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Does anyone know if the big name tyre manufacturers use different tread compounds in different markets? For example hard in the USA for long life and softer in Europe to be more sticky in the wet. I have had newish rental cars in the US and Australia that have been rubbish on wet roads even after allowing for a 5 litre V8, auto box and no traction control. :-)
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>> (often, the only reason we see these cars in, is because a warning lamp shows
>> on the dash..... that being the traction control lamp! )
>>
Mine can be switched off.
:-D
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This thread has reminded me of a question I was asked yesterday and couldn't answer, I'm sure someone can give a technical answer on here:)
The minimum legal tread for a car tyre is 1.6mm
The legal tread for a lorry tyre is 1mm.
Why is it less for a lorry?
Pat
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Don't know the answer, but it may be related to the fact that the car limit was 1mm.
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Probably something to do with the loading of the tyre and its resistance to aquaplaning, I'd guess. The greater the load on a tyre, the least likely it is to aquaplane at a given speed. It's all to do with the footprint and pressure on the road. I once read a pushbike would need to be doing around 80MPH to aquaplane on bald tyres.
A car's going to have a maximum of about half a ton bearing down on each corner. What's an unladen lorry weigh and what would be the load on each wheel?
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>> This thread has reminded me of a question I was asked yesterday and couldn't answer,
>> I'm sure someone can give a technical answer on here:)
>>
>> The minimum legal tread for a car tyre is 1.6mm
>> The legal tread for a lorry tyre is 1mm.
>>
>> Why is it less for a lorry?
>>
>> Pat
>>
Its also 1mm for a motorcycle!
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Can you get winter tyres for motorbikes and do you have to put the newest ones on the back?
Ducks and retreats...
:-)
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>> Can you get winter tyres for motorbikes and do you have to put the newest
>> ones on the back?
Well......
www.customfighters.com/forums/imagehosting/73884ad7a2d66bf6e.jpg
;-)
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Not read all of this so sorry if it has been repeated, but the other issue is the age of the tyres, if buying part worn always check how old thery are. Old tyres which have been exposed to the sun for a long time can be more dangerous than worn ones.
Personally my tyres are so cheap there is no reason not to fit new tyres. If anything though when mine need replacing I may upgrade from the Contental Eco contacts they came with as I think grip can be a bit lacking.
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One of my ole dads bosses (he worked in a haulage business parts store) used to re-cut his own wagon tyre treads with a hand-held cutter, similar to tin-snips, but was not allowed to re-cut his cars tyres.
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I don't know if any of these are THE reason, but,
a) The heavy goods vehicle's speed will generally be lower than a car
b) The tyre pressure is much higher - IIRC, the aquaplaning speed is proportional to the square root of the tyre pressure
c) The HGV is driven by a driver who has been trained and is generally more experienced than a car driver, and is therefore more likely to adjust speed according to the road conditions
d) The small number of HGV aquaplaning incidents meant that it simply wasn't worth the aggro of moving the limit from 1 to 1.6 mm
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e,
heavier vehicle less likely to skid across the top i.e. aquaplane?
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It's the loading per square inch on the tyre contact patch, much higher with loaded lorries. Standing water is squirted aside with much greater force and the wheel is less likely to ride up on the water.
I seem to remember that the tread layer on the carcase was quite a bit thicker with truck and van tyres. So when bald - not illegal in itself when I was young - commercial tyres could be recut in the manner described by bathtub I think. 'Ever seen a cutter?' someone asked me once. I still never have to my knowledge, but I know what they are.
With car tyres that layer was too thin, so they had to have a new tread vulcanized on. Decent retreads were all right up to motorway speeds, crap ones were thought suspect. They were often radically out of balance and needed balancing more often than new tyres.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Sun 12 Aug 12 at 20:39
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Early 1960s I watched a guy cut new treads on a bus tyre at the local bus garage with an electric tool about the size of a power drill.
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I used to buy remould tyres for my old VW Beetles.There is a garage near me who sell part worn tyres would it be better to buy remoulds?
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"A police investigation blamed four part-worn tyres as a major contributor to the crash."
So there were other contributors. I wonder what they were, and whether the crash would still have occurred without the tyre factor.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Mon 13 Aug 12 at 11:03
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Dangers of part worn tyres - Mapmaker
