My brother runs his own business. It was just a motorcycle garage, but he's now taken on the car garage at the front of the premises so it's cars and bikes combined. Rural site, mostly rural customers. He's already got a good reputation for fair work at a fair price (not just saying that, I've heard things from people who don't realise he's my brother).
Here are some of the recent things people have tried.
1, Chap comes in, in a car, and it needs an engine re-build. He's quoted a price. He baulks at the price and leaves.
Several days later, a chap who does repairs in a shed on his property, pops in to the garage and asks to borrow certain tools, because he's doing an engine re-build and hasn't got the right tools...through conversation it transpires he's doing the job on the car that the chap had taken into the garage for a quote....he was sent on his merry way...without the tools.
2, Chap asks about the price for a tyre on a motorcycle. He baulks at the price and leaves. Several days later he comes in again, with a new tyre on the bike and asks for a balance to be done and that the garage that had fitted the tyre 6 miles away had recommended he go there. He'd got it done for a price difference of a fiver, but the garage quoting for less hadn't splashed out on an expensive bike tyre balancing machine...he was sent on his way as well, with the advice to get it balanced at the place that supplied the tyre.
3, Chap's father turns up and asks for an MOT to be done on his son's car, as his son is skint, has kids and is driving around with no MOT. Granddad is unconformable with this and is willing to pay. Car fails the MOT and needs a load of work. Granddad says go ahead, do the work, so a load of parts are ordered. Parts turn up. Before work is started, son rings up and states 'don't do work, I can't afford to pay father back', so parts sent back, some bits put back on car, no payment and car is collected. Several days later, granddad rings up, son has got mate to do some work in his agricultural machinery barn, but they can't do some of it, not enough knowledge and/or tools..can car come back again?
4, Car fails MOT, needs brakes and tyres. Chap wants to negotiate on price of tyres and is unhappy with the end result of the negotiation 'his mate can get them cheaper'. Can the garage do the brakes, fail the car, he'll drive it elsewhere for tyres, then bring it back for a re-test?
Are these people for real? I know times are hard, but is it me or are they being exceptionally rude and unrealistic. If the garage was 'dear' in its prices, maybe...but it isn't....people are just after the ultimate bargain, having no regard for the overheads, staff costs etc and the expense of paying for all the right equipment.
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If you have ever worked in retail and had to deal with the general public then all of the above is "normal" behaviour.
Having left retail almost 20 years ago and now managing IT services to internal customers (people working for the same company as me) this sounds about right. For example "My laptop stopped working, no idea why" - "please tell me why coffee has run out of the keyboard when it was turned over to open the back for inspection" - "No idea how that got there...!"
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Free isn't cheap enough,now isn't soon enough...etc etc...
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This seems to be pretty normal and has been like this for a couple of years.
1. I never, but never lend tools. If you don't have them, you wont respect them.
2. Missed a trick there, a simple £10 charge and a long conversation about how badly the tyre had been fitted would have been appropriate.
3. Happens all too often, take the lesser business but the prices wont be so keen and the other repairs will be heavily scrutinised.
4. Again, very common and the next time when a job needs doing you'll know how deep his pockets are.
There are far too many cars running around now with screeching pattern brakes and wanli tyres. It will all end in tears.
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Quite a lot of our customers have fairly posh clothing and or shoe shops. An increasingly common scenario is the Monday morning return and request ( demand ) for a refund on expensive shoes "because I tried them on at home and they don't fit" often in the case of the "ladies" accompanied by a demand to return the equally expensive matching handbag because "of course it's no use without the shoes is it as I bought them as a set dear...".
The savvy retailer will keep them chatting pleasantly for a while until they're off their guard and then gently ask them if they enjoyed the wedding / races on Saturday? And another passing comment about how the shoe's soles have become remarkably scuffed given they've only been tried on again in the house and that, "my isn't that strange, there appears to be a used paper tissue and a stray Polo mint in the handbag and a lipstick mark on the lining and would Madam care to about turn and do one please"...
:-)
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Big labels on the outside Humph, its the only way.
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I went to a do at the village hall a while back and one of the local party girls was very much the worse for wear. She was helped home across the road by a couple of other guests. Falling about, she said "be careful with me dress, it's got to go back on Monday!"
My mechanic pal has managed to shake off most of the customers who won't pay for servicing or preventive maintenance, but just want the minimum doing to pass the MoT. Experience is that when the overdue cambelt breaks, or the engine cooks owing to lack of fluids, they won't have any breakdown cover either and they'll ring him up at whatever time it is to see if he will rescue them.
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>> increasingly common scenario is the Monday morning return and request ( demand ) for a
>> refund on expensive shoes "because I tried them on at home and they don't fit"
>>
>> The savvy retailer will keep them chatting pleasantly for a while until they're off their
>> guard and then gently ask them if they enjoyed the wedding / races on Saturday?
>>
>> :-)
>>
:0
One person on this forum with a wand against his name sees no harm in doing that with goods from Argos. He tried to encourage a religious man to "take advantage of the Argos free loan scheme" even though the said man regarded that as extremely dishonest.
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Aye, there indeed is the rub. We too have some shops and are appalled when we sell someone something faulty. We do everything we can not only to put the situation right for the customer but to apologise for their inconvenience. However, there are an increasing group who just try to take the wee wee. When we encounter those we send them away with a request not to come back. Anyway, I thought the sort of people who buy fridges etc from Argos didn't return them when they stopped working? I thought they just put them in the front garden along with the old sofa?
:-)
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>> 2. Missed a trick there, a simple £10 charge and a long conversation about how
>> badly the tyre had been fitted would have been appropriate.
Fair point...but I think he's at the stage where there's plenty of business coming through...and he can't be bothered with the time wasters.
Faffing about on the phone or internet pricing stuff, uses up valuable time..o.k. for sensible customers, part of the game...but not for the 'ultimate bargain seekers'.
Whilst chatting, he said he's had a couple of call outs to regular customers who have broken down. Really simple fixes, he doesn't charge, no call out charge, no fix it charge. Keeps them sweet.
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Similarily is the question of free air in petrol stations. People will berate a station for nto having air, but then actually by their petrol down the road where it is .3p cheaper.
It happened with insurance brokers; They used to offer loads of assistance wiht claims, free admin, etc. etc. until people started moving to somehere with no added service for a saving of a £5.
As with many people here I travel a lot. One of the things you hear is that customer service is bad in the UK.
Well in my opinion it is worse, in comparison, but here's why - the Brits WILL NOT pay for service.
Imagine two identical restaurants. Identical decor, identical food, identical everything. Except for one item; one has excellent service but costs 10% more. In virtually every place I go other than the UK that bad service restaurant would go out of busy.
In the UK however, everybody goes to the restaurant with cheap prices, bitches about the service and then watches the high quality service restaurant go out of business.
You get better service in for example, a Brazilian restaurant, because the waiter gets the whole "better service = more tip, worse service = less tip. It doesn't work in the UK because people won't pay extra for service or facility.
Now watch as thousands of people maintain that this is rubbish and that they always pay for service!
A bit like the fact that I've never met anyone who admits buying the Sun despite it being the highest circulation paper in the UK.
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My mechanic has the same issues and has to deal with a few rotten apples, as do most services. His wife handles all the paperwork and keeps meticulous records of everything that has been done on every car that goes into the workshop. So if someone has a problem and claims that something hasn't been carried out, they can prove it has. He does a brilliant job for a very reasonable price and I'm lucky to have him on the doorstep.
Luckily, and this will be the same for any business that has remained successful for a number of years, they have a regular and loyal following of customers that don't take the Michael, and makes the business worthwhile.
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My neighbour has made a good living by being a good cabinet maker, with a good reputation locally. Everything's word of mouth and he generally works for the very well heeled. However, he thinks nothing of scrutinising the cost of basic car servicing and goes off to see if he can get the parts cheaper, often returning with them for the garage to use. I guess that's fine and they charge for the labour but I know that he wouldn't countenance for a moment someone querying the cost of wood, or supplying their own, because of his mark-up. I just can't understand that he thinks it's OK for him to do it. I'm with corax, find someone good and pay the going rate knowing that you're getting what you want. That way the garage stays in business and I've always got somewhere to go.
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It's an old and hackneyed cliche but a deal is only a good deal when all parties concerned win. Empathy is a rare quality in the food chain of our transactionally centred modern lives but if we are ever to return to economic stability it's a requirement at all levels in the procedure. To use yet another analogy, if you squeeze a balloon at one end it will only bulge at the other and if you squeeze too hard, well, you just burst the balloon.
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Ive had similar things happen to me with a few of my regular customers. They start using the local 'hand car wash' and then I get every 3 or 4 cleans because Im better but more expensive.
Then I get the call that they get home and in a different light find the car is scratched to hell and can I come and 'fix it' - this has happened quite a few times now, not to mention wax being stripped off cars, but it does give me a chance to give them a few knowing looks before I do my thing.
I once cleaned an old Corsa for a garage I know that was a bit sun drenched but otherwise tidy - the old dear took it to a hand car wash where they drenched it in TFR which left it looking like it has suffered an acid attack.
I laughed my head off when I saw it but a quick feel of the paint revealed it actually was in better shape than it looked, so a good polish and hand glaze and it was a lovely bright shade of red again. The old dear didnt recognise her car when she came to collect it, but apparently id made my point :-p
You cant help some people, so you just have to let them get on and do what they will, I dont take it personally, though I do charge a bit more if Im rectifying some muffins mistakes.
Its slightly irritating when a regular does it, but ive yet to find one that doesnt come crawling back after a wheel repaint from excess acid wheel cleaner, scratches or things gone missing from the car. I dont have to prove my worth, others do it for me.
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>> It's an old and hackneyed cliche but a deal is only a good deal when
>> all parties concerned win.
It never ceases to amaze me how many companies, big and small, still don't accept this. Suppliers are screwed for every nanoEuro until they aren't interested in the business, or go belly up - which means the production line stops and far more money is lost than was saved by screwing the supplier.
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>> It never ceases to amaze me how many companies, big and small, still don't accept
>> this. Suppliers are screwed for every nanoEuro until they aren't interested in the business, or
>> go belly up - which means the production line stops and far more money is
>> lost than was saved by screwing the supplier.
Is this not happening with the milk industry? Pay the farmers as little as possible, keep charging the customers a tidy sum and make a nice profit. The trouble is you squeeze them too hard and those diary farms disappear - it takes years of work to build one up again, something that middlemen don't seem to understand in their money orientated fast moving world. Not everything in life is about making vast profits.
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>> Is this not happening with the milk industry?
>>
No. The problem there is one of extreme overcapacity.
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>> Is this not happening with the milk industry?
What I don't understand is the big differences in the selling price. Locally there's 66 pence per litre at Heron and 89 pence per litre at the Co-op which is only 100 yards away.
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>> >> It's an old and hackneyed cliche but a deal is only a good deal
>> when
>> >> all parties concerned win.
>>
>> It never ceases to amaze me how many companies, big and small, still don't accept
>> this. Suppliers are screwed for every nanoEuro until they aren't interested in the business, or
>> go belly up - which means the production line stops and far more money is
>> lost than was saved by screwing the supplier.
>>
I've spent much of my career developing contracts for ongoing services. The thing to remember is that it's a process, not an event. An unsustainable deal isn't a success.
I've worked for two companies whose cultures have been that a negotiation is an argument, a battle of will, bluff and counterbluff which ends with the 'successful' party fleecing the other.
I've never approached things that way. With all but the simplest of transactions, it's possible to structure things in such a way that both parties make acceptable concessions and get something of more value to themselves in return. I avoid the phrase 'win win' which doesn't really describe how you get there. To succeed with this approach requires mutual trust and respect, which once created is a great asset if things get difficult later on.
Producing one ultimatum after another just makes people secretive about what their real concerns are, makes them paint themselves into a corner and can prevent a deal being reached at all.
Of course there are times when you need to be very clear about what you must have, and the more bargaining power you have the better deal you will get Sometimes there just isn't a deal to be done. But you find that out quicker, and more reliably, with a measured and thoughtful approach, a real understanding of what is important for you and what isn't, and a lot of attention to what the motivations are for the other side.
The hardest part of the last 25 years has been keeping macho colleagues (of both sexes) at arms length while doing my job, and occasionally reminding them in so many words that they have to let me do it. I didn't realise how much I enjoyed it until I stopped doing it, or, until a couple of people were kind enough to tell me, that it was a particular skill - I had always thought of my skills as the technical ones I possessed.
I am under no illusions of indispensability now I have moved on, but I know those key relationships are going to go downhill rapidly if certain people get involved and start the zero-sum-game approach.
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>> It's an old and hackneyed cliche but a deal is only a good deal when
>> all parties concerned win. Empathy is a rare quality in the food chain of our
>> transactionally centred modern lives but if we are ever to return to economic stability it's
>> a requirement at all levels in the procedure.
I work in a procurement function. The area I work in fosters long term relationships where contracts are awarded for life of program which can be 25+ years. If our suppliers don't make a reasonable profit then they become starved of cash for investment in current and future developments which is of no benefit to any of us. If they have problems then we have frank and open discussions as to what we can do to help each other.
I have colleagues who work with other commodities, and their attitude is very much screw the supplier for what you can get, then dump them and move on.
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>> As with many people here I travel a lot. One of the things you hear
>> is that customer service is bad in the UK.
>>
Funny you mention travel - I travel on business about once a month on average. For most of my flights in the last couple of years I have been using Easyjet. I think they are OK in a "does what it says on the tin" kind of way.
Couple of weeks back I flew BA - first time in quite a while. I had forgotten how good the service was, no rugby scrum to board, large G&T, staff who are over 18.... Will try to stick with them where possible in the future.
I think as a nation we are willing to sacrifice service to save a few quid, plus we like to have something to moan about
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I like BA. You generally get a feeling which is as close to calm as is possible during modern air travel. I hate airports. I really hate airports actually...
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Going back to garages, the indy garage and tyre fitters I use both never want for business - most of it won by recommendation from satisfied repeat private customers, the taxi trade and other motor trade businesses.
The garage is always up-front about the cost of parts and labour. If there's options to source OEM parts, third party or refurbished, or for me to supply my own, they're happy to explain all three. They're equally up-front about what comeback I can expect from all three options.
I've never known them to refuse work or try to talk down a competitor. Again, they're upfront where they find fault, or where there's a limit to what they can/will do.
Likewise the tyre fitter. He's often not the cheapest, but he's good to his word on what he stocks and the prices he quotes. He doesn't repair alloy wheels, for example, due the cost of the equipment, but always refers customers to the same wheel repair shop (who supplies the rally trade); the wheel shop, in turn, refer you to a rally specialist for four-wheel tracking.
I'm happy with this; all these people do what they're good at, and have only ever recommended other people who are good at what they do. The waiting time to get a booking with them suggests plenty people recognise the value of what they're doing too.
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Mark, this forum just hasn't been the same without you! Welcome back.
For the first time in my life, the other week, I deleted the 'optional' service charge from a "restaurant" (actually a gastropub) bill. It was the worst service and food I'd ever had.
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>>Mark, this forum just hasn't been the same without you! Welcome back
You're too kind.
You did mean that in a good way, right?
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 15 Aug 12 at 15:44
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>> >>Mark, this forum just hasn't been the same without you! Welcome back
I meant to post the same message at the weekend. I think it was a response to an insurance question that prompted me but Mark's good value on any subject.
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Blush. Thanks.
Now lets see if you still think that when I get on my soapbox about something!
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My local indy, who is of good reputation and has always done stirling work on our cars for the last few years, surprised me at MOT time for the E30. It failed on the crossmember bushes. The mechanic sucked his teeth a bit and told me that as they didn't have the particular tool for that model, it woud need a big dismantle and thus very expensive in labour terms. Rather than push that, he recommended a local specialist and suggest I get it done there, and bring it back for a reMOT, which I did. That keeps me going back to them. If you are SE London/Kent, they are Chelsfield Motor Works.
Alex.
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Are you still in Royal Leamington Spa?
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Ian!! How the very devil are you and yours?
Santiago, Chile at the mo. Left RLBS about 6 years ago.
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>> Ian!! How the very devil are you and yours?
Very well, thanks.
If my decrepit memory serves me right, your eldest nipper must be approaching the teens by now?
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Thank the lord, not yet; she's 10. Hardwork keeping up with her though.
She wouldn't be seen dead in a dress, skirt or anything pink. Her regular hobbies are shooting (.22 & Clay), hunting (on horses), Fishing (sea, river & lake), surfing, skiing and rock climbing. Her favourite clothing is Timberland boots, combat trousers and a ratty sweatshirt and she's had her hair cut short.
Her sister, on the other hand, firmly believes that if you can't do it in a party dress and high heels, then its not worth doing.
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The joys of parenthood!
I TOLD you to get one of those black-and-red Dennis the Menace/Flamengo shirts before you left Brazil, remember?
Still got retrievers?
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I do remember, and funnily enough we've been through years of Dennis the Menace shirts, videos, comics and the like with the elder child.
Still got the same retrievers in fact, although they're knocking on a bit now. Bless. I just flew them over here from the UK, and I'm guessing that'll be their last major flight. Ironic really, they were born here and I got them before I got wife and children. As I type they're are both asleep next to me.
As I've just shipped them I know their weight. When I flew them to the UK in about 2003 or 4 they were 45kg each, they're now 52kg each. A sign of age, I guess. They're still absolutely ferocious if a stranger gets near the kids. Caused a few problems in the UK.
How's your family?
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>> I do remember, and funnily enough we've been through years of Dennis the Menace shirts,
>> How's your family?
>>
The eldest in 12, and she's a real 'grumpy teen', but has her moments of niceness.
Junior is 10, and motor obsessed - far too mcuh Top Gear wacthing, I suspect!
It helps that we live near the local track, so we can pop up there a few times a month to watch the racing.
In these recesssionary days, just glad we've got the roof over our heads etc etc etc, to be honest. The media industry here is taking a kicking.
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She was very pretty when young so I;m guessing life isn't going to get any easier. I'm thinking of beating mine until they look a bit worse.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 15 Aug 12 at 18:09
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>> She was very pretty when young so I;m guessing life isn't going to get any
>> easier. I'm thinking of beating mine until they look a bit worse.
>>
No No No! Just make sure you are cleaning the shotgun when the prospective suitors come to call.
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When my friend's daughter brought her boyfriend home, her father, me and two of our other friends had just walked through the door from a bike ride - all leather, hair and beards. I'm not small, but the others were much bigger than me.
We [unintentionally] scared the living daylights out of the guy.
She married him.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 15 Aug 12 at 18:18
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>> her father, me and two of our
>> other friends had just walked through the door
>> We [unintentionally] scared the living daylights out of the guy.
>>
>> She married him.
>>
In flagrante delicto?
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No, too young and innocent (at the time). She'd nervously brought him home for introduction and approval, he was equally scared.
Rather than a nice quiet time with her pleasant, quiet and respectable mother, they ended up with us.
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>>She wouldn't be seen dead in a dress, skirt or anything pink. Her regular hobbies are shooting (.22 & Clay), hunting (on horses), Fishing (sea, river & lake), surfing, skiing and rock climbing. Her favourite clothing is Timberland boots, combat trousers and a ratty sweatshirt and she's had her hair cut short.
<<
She'll do for me:)
Pat
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>> Santiago, Chile at the mo. Left RLBS about 6 years ago.
Did you finally finish that house in Bicester, or have you still got the JCB parked where the kitchen should be?
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Finished. But like the Forth Bridge, needs decorating.
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I think they actually finished the Forth Bridge last year with some special paint - for a while anyway :)
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>> I think they actually finished the Forth Bridge last year with some special paint -
Yep. Will not need another paint job for at least 25 years (they claim)
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-16110496
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>> You did mean that in a good way, right?
Nah. It's dreadful when people hold forthright views that express common sense... ;) Really bad for a forum.
Last edited by: Mapmaker on Thu 16 Aug 12 at 09:15
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>> Well in my opinion it is worse, in comparison, but here's why - the Brits
>> WILL NOT pay for service.
>>
>>
>> You get better service in for example, a Brazilian restaurant, because the waiter gets the
>> whole "better service = more tip, worse service = less tip. It doesn't work in
>> the UK because people won't pay extra for service or facility.
Reminds me of an Englishman I know met years ago in the Far East. He declared that he never tipped - tipping was for Americans!
Back on subject, I would say that I personally have changed. Thirty years ago, I'd always try to buy the cheapest of anything. Not any more. I'm still a skinflint, but I am willing to pay for quality (often cheaper in the long run) and for convenience, and to avoid stress - after all, time is money, and it is false economy to save a few quid if one ends up suffering hours of misery or inconvenience.
When it comes to car insurance, I no longer bother getting competitive quotes. I just renew with NFU mutual. When I had an accident a couple of years back, I was relieved that I had decided to insure with them, because I couldn't fault the service I received.
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The cheek of some people - brettmick
