I remember when these didn't exist and then they gradually came in on the aftermarket shelves - I put a Hella one in the back window of my 309.
Anyway they became mandatory and as far as I can remember, their purpose was to allow brake lights to be seen from a distance and through traffic, where you may not see normal brake lights.
Sitting at traffic lights beside a new shaped BMW 6 series (very ugly rear end) and I note that the hi level brake light is on the boot approx 2 inches, at the most, higher than the normal brake lights.
A quick survey around showed that Focus, Aygos, 308s etc all still go with the high brake light at the top of the glass. Subsequently noticed that the last of the Vectra didn't and I know my wife's Beetle has the light under the rear windscreen as well.
So what's the point of these lights if they are not high up enough to serve the purpose??
|
>> So what's the point of these lights if they are not high up enough to
>> serve the purpose??
>>
I'm sure that some things are incorporated into cars purely because of the regulations.
|
In 1989 I had had a licence for 25 years and my wife for 20 years. No "High Brake Lights" - never rear ended.
Since 1989 I have had "High Brake Lights" and been rear ended 3 times in the 23 years.
Damage on my car £500 (1990), £250 (2000) and £6,000 (2001, car was 2 weeks old!)
High Brake lights have not proved to be useful in my case.
|
|
Always doubted their efficacy and hate the things when stuck behind an automatic at the lights.
|
>> Always doubted their efficacy and hate the things when stuck behind an automatic at the
>> lights.
>>
You mean when the driver keeps his foot on the footbrake? I never do that in any car in case it causes additional deterioration of the brake cylinder or master cylinder seals.
|
If it's any consolation, CG, I feel guilty every time I use the Hold feature at a junction rather than grinding on the parking brake. It's (the PB, not the hold) a really irksome feature for those of us who like to be good red light citizens.
It's not just us though: so few drivers bother that the rest can't all be in automatics.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Wed 15 Aug 12 at 09:57
|
>> Anyway they became mandatory and as far as I can remember,
Not according to the MOT.
"Vehicles first used on or after 1 January 1971 must be fitted with two obligatory stop lamps."
No mention of additional brake lights being mandatory.
www.motuk.co.uk/manual_120.htm
"Additional stop lamps fitted and connected must be tested. Where extra lamps are fitted and there is doubt as to whether they are connected, the benefit of this doubt should be given to the presenter."
>> So what's the point of these lights if they are not high up enough to serve the purpose??
Height isn't a concern for the MOT either, other than the obligatory lights must be approx the same height as each other and approx the same distance from the centre of the vehicle.
"The precise position of obligatory lamps is not part of the inspection, but check visually that the lamps are at about the same height and the same distance from each side of the vehicle."
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 15 Aug 12 at 10:32
|
>>>> Anyway they became mandatory and as far as I can remember,
>> Not according to the MOT.
VxFan you're thinking UK MOT only. These lights did become mandatory. Probably at different times in the UK/Europe and USA.
And don't forget that technically an HID light is not legal in the UK. But has to be because of some EC directive that says they are acceptable.
|
>> VxFan you're thinking UK MOT only.
Well correct me if I'm wrong, but this is primarily a UK website and in other countries it's not referred to as an MOT ;o)
|
>> Well correct me if I'm wrong, but this is primarily a UK website and in other countries it's not referred to as an MOT ;o)
But the lights aren't there because of the MOT are they. They are there because of European and USA directives etc. My point is saying they are not listed in the MOT as things to test doesn't mean they are not needed.
|
>> But the lights aren't there because of the MOT are they. They are there because
>> of European and USA directives etc. My point is saying they are not listed in
>> the MOT as things to test doesn't mean they are not needed.
OK, lets try and clear up some of the confusion. According to a bit of lunchtime research, the 3rd brake light became a mandatory requirement for car manufacturers to fit at some point - i.e.
North America since 1986,
Australia and New Zealand since 1990,
Europe since 1998
However, in the UK it is not a mandatory requirement for it to work. Nor I gather for it to be fitted to a DIY build (eg, kit car).
|
>> However, in the UK it is not a mandatory requirement for it to work
Frequently you see cars where it is the only brake lights working. Thank goodness for LEDs lasting longer than the bulbs otherwise these fools would have no brake light at all. :-)
|
>>
>> However, in the UK it is not a mandatory requirement for it to work. Nor
>> I gather for it to be fitted to a DIY build (eg, kit car).
>>
It's a mandatory fitment on vehicles with a production volume higher than ${arbitrary_value}.
This is why they were an optional extra on the MGF. The annual production volumes were just shy of the level that made them mandatory.
|
|
Ah! ... a 'modern' BMW that I actually like the look of: www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/bmw/6-series-2011/
|
|
If prefer the 4 door version of that. Very nice but expensive! Especially as underneath it's a 5 series.
|
The 'high' level brake lights on the CC3 are on the vertical part of the boot lid, just above the Ford badge.
In other words, they are level with the lights in the corner lenses.
What they do provide is some width to the braking warning in the event one of the corner bulbs fails.
A car with no brake lights will almost certainly be rear-ended, which is what some of the cash for crash scammers rely on.
|
I don't think the point is that they are "high", but that there is a third light that can't be confused with someone turning on driving lights or fog lights.
That said, they are not mandatory, at least for the MOT, according to my tester recently..
When they first came in they were illegal. There was a craze for fitting additional bright high up brake lights, which the authorities tried to stop. Shortly afterwards, they became standard.
|
I'm pleased I don't have to interpret the requirements. tinyurl.com/bsnvp5e
Section 1.2.
"Vehicles first used on or after 1 January 1971 must be fitted with two obligatory stop lamps.
Additional stop lamps fitted and connected must be tested. Where extra lamps are fitted and there is doubt as to whether they are connected, the benefit of this doubt should be given to the presenter."
Last edited by: L'escargot on Wed 15 Aug 12 at 14:23
|
This cuts both ways. Try following an early Ford Focus in a low sports car with the roof up. From your point of view you'll find it has no brake lights at all.
I didn't half swear at Ford and their idiot designers when I came perilously close to running into the back of one in my MGB roadster, just after they were introduced.
|
I nearly pulled out in front of a dark-coloured supercar at a junction in London.
It was doing no speed, but my first glance was above it.
|
I've noticed that the latest model Corsa seems to have less lights in the high level jobby than older versions. The slot is the same size, but only the middle 2/3 or so actually has lights. Not just broken, as I've noticed this a few times. Cost cutting, but trying to make it not look like that?
Contrast with our W211 E class wagon, which has a high-level light across the entire width of the (not remotely narrow) top part of the rear screen. You certainly wouldn't miss it, but I think it could be accused of overkill...
Alex.
|
More and more cars are fitted with bling lights that are not fit for purpose.
Better get used to it :-(
|
>> Contrast with our W211 E class wagon, which has a high-level light across the entire width
I thought only the more plush models of LEC had a full width CHMSL*, the lower order ones have only the middle third or so of the red lens illuminated.
I always thought the old Honda Stream with its red lens all the way round the top of the tailgate should have had one enormous horseshoe-shaped brake light stretching from one side to the other.
*Centre High Mounted Stop Light
|
|
No Dave, it's about age rather than status. The full-width HMSL was introduced at the 2006 facelift, even for cooking models like mine.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Wed 15 Aug 12 at 19:27
|
|
I sit corrected. I already knew the E estates had fairly narrow HMSLs in a wide lens but then saw a wide version on the just-announced E63 AMG at Goodwood FoS a few years ago, that must be where the assumption came from.
|
|
It's to warn people when the driver takes his foot off the brake while stretching for a toll ticket...
|
...It's to warn people when the driver takes his foot off the brake while stretching for a toll ticket...
...or to take a sip from a suitably expensive cup of coffee.
|
|
Coffee in the car, Iffy? Only a rubbish driver would think that was a good idea.
|
... Only a rubbish driver would think that was a good idea...
Stopping the car before drinking it is an option for the safety conscious.
|
I nearly pulled out in front of a dark-coloured supercar at a junction in London.
That must make you a rubbish driver, Iffy - as well, possibly, as one with a lap full of cheap coffee.
|
...That must make you a rubbish driver...
It might had I pulled out and ended up with the nose of a Lambo wedged under the nearside of the car.
Not sure about the coffee, don't think we had drive-throughs - or cupholders - in those days.
|
"High Level" Brake Lights!! - L'escargot
