This came to me in a news report this morning.
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The Department for Transport (DfT) says careless driving could become a fixed penalty notice offence.
In a document which is currently out to consultation, it suggests a £90 payment and three penalty points for low level offending.
Examples cited include:
- Driving too close to a vehicle in front.
- Being in the wrong lane on a roundabout.
- Ignoring a "lane closed" sign and pushing into an orderly queue.
- Lane discipline such as remaining in lane two or three when lane one is empty and there is no other vehicle to overtake.
- Inappropriate speed.
- Wheel spins.
The plans are designed to cover situations where careless offending is witnessed by a police officer, in a situation where there are no victims or collisions or complaints from a member of public.
More serious careless driving incidents would continue to be prosecuted in court.
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Thoughts?
Pat
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Good idea. Generally all in favour. Hopefully more publicity will reduct the sort of selfish driving characterised by these offences.
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When was the last time you saw a bobby on traffic duty, except sat in the back of a van with a speed camera?
Does this mean we're going to see police on the roads again using their own judgement rather than that of a camera?
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Would be better to stop people and have a word by a traffic cop.You are right Vx.When was the last time?
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>> You are
>> right Vx.When was the last time?
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For us in Cambridge, the answer to "when" is yesterday, hence:
www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Home/Council-worker-caught-not-wearing-seatbelt-29082012.htm
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>>selfish driving characterised by these offences.
I wouldn't say that straying into the wrong lane of a busy roundabout constitutes 'selfish driving'. I bet there aren't many on this forum who haven't done it on many occasions. And given that you carefully manoeuvre your vehicle into the correct lane, I wouldn't think that a police officer would be remotely interested.
Last edited by: Clk Sec on Wed 29 Aug 12 at 11:04
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I've done it strange town different roads easy to make a mistake.
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>> I wouldn't say that straying into the wrong lane of a busy roundabout constitutes 'selfish driving'.
>>I bet there aren't many on this forum who haven't done it on many occasions.
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Many roundabouts are a nightmare to many because of bad signage and/or design.
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On the A1 south joining the M25 west every few yards you have to change lanes on the roundabout. ( yes the are lane markings on the road but in heavy traffic - useless.
On the Leatherhead /M25 roundabout - for years it was marked in a stupid way so that a few feet into the roundabout you had to change lanes.
And how about selfish driving when driving around a mini roundabout holding everyone up when logic says in effect ignore it. Too many take them literally rather than a device to share a junction. I know several mini roundabouts where in some directions NOBODDY drives around them.
Let the BiB use a bit of common rather than cameras.
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"wouldn't say that straying into the wrong lane of a busy roundabout constitutes 'selfish driving"
OK - add the words "and causing a collision" All the other examples cited are certainly selfish driving. We are not talking about a change in the law here, these examples are all against the law already and all constitute careless driving. All that is being proposed is a fixed penalty ticket which hopefully would lead to to a few more people being booked.
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>> Thoughts?
Guilty on all counts. Put the handcuffs on me.
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yet again more legislation to make all of us guilty for something motoring related.
being distracted by a two year old in the back of the car = careless driving.
Laughing whilst driving = careless driving
Looking into the rear view mirror whilst driving forwards = careless driving.
Come to think of it, what can come under the 'careless driving' stamp is quite a grey area.
Welcome to yet more nannying police state laws.
This country really is going to the dogs.
Just a shame it's changing quicker than what I thought it would be.
Never know, maybe someone well get nicked for careless driving while eating an apple.
Oh hold on, someone already has.
Last edited by: diddy1234 on Wed 29 Aug 12 at 16:25
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>> Guilty on all counts. Put the handcuffs on me.
What, even wheel spinning?
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>> >> Guilty on all counts. Put the handcuffs on me.
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>> What, even wheel spinning?
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Yep. Just before the front tyres were ready to be renewed so that I wasn't wasting any rubber. I had to turn off the traction control to do it though.
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>> Hooligan ;o)
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tinyurl.com/cxfrjb5
I'm second from the left. Guess which Car4player is on the right.
:-D
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I'm proud to be a hooligan:)
Pat
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Excuse the use of capital letters, but needs must.
>> - Driving too close to a vehicle in front.
I AM APPROACHING, on a motorway, within the speed limt, at 20km/h faster than you. I put on my brights... get the hell out of the lane!
>> - Being in the wrong lane on a roundabout.
I TAKE the tiger line, if there's nothing about. But people who take the 'turn left only' lane incoming, and barge their way in, should be shot.
>> - Ignoring a "lane closed" sign and pushing into an orderly queue.
DITTO
>> - Lane discipline such as remaining in lane two or three when lane one is
>> empty and there is no other vehicle to overtake.
SEE ABOVE. Fortunately here we can 'undertake'. Blitz past somebody at 120, and see how they like it!
>> - Inappropriate speed.
AGREED.
>> - Wheel spins.
MAKE THEM wheelspin until their fuel tank is empty or tyres are shot.
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Sounds ok as long as there is corroboration eg. a second copper, or CCTV.
Criminal offences being prosecuted and found guilty on the say-so of a single copper (or any other member of the public) and no corroboration?
Not in favour.
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Careless: 'without due care and attention or reasonable consideration for other road users'. I can't see many forces having the resources available to start issuing these proposed tickets in any meaningful number and certainly not for trivial matters. As with any fixed penalty notice the recipient has the right to request a court hearing, which in turn means the issuing officer has to prepare case papers and put to the CPS who will decide whether to prosecute. I can't see the CPS prosecuting the sort of incident types listed in Pat's first post. The cynic might say that HM Government would expect the majority of tickets to be paid, out of convenience for the recipient rather than acceptance of the allegation, and thus the majority are unlikely to be considered by the CPS. It would certainly be interesting if everyone that got a fixed penalty notice pleaded not guilty.
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My assumption is that it is simply to facilitate some guy on the end of a CCTV camera being able to post hundreds of FPN per day to car owners, in the same manner as some councils do for bus route and parking infringements.
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>> It gets worse.
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>> tinyurl.com/bsys4gy
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>> Pat
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Be very afraid!
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The second link concerns me far more than the first one.
Pat
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The roundabout thing is unfair you approach a larger runabout you're very unfamiliar with and and markings on the road are worn, it is easy to be on the wrong lane on some of the more complicated ones.
As as for wheel spins I have done it myself a couple of times if it is wet, the tyres on my car are eco ones and don't offer much grip. It is just a mistake nothing more.
With lane pushing in surely the cops will have to prove it? Sometimes it is blatant but often it can be because the driver is unsure what lane to be in.
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Careless driving could become fixed penalty notice - CGNorwich
