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A new programme starts next Monday at 8pm on channel 5 in which they scour junk yards and garages for classic cars that have been left to rot and restore them to original condition. First up is an E-Type Jag, and provided there is any decent content between 5's ultra long ad breaks it should be well worth a watch.
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Without wishing to touch the vexed subject of what is and isn't a 'classic', I can't resist sounding a note of caution on what might be involved in 'restoration to original condition'.
I can't believe any proper restoration of an E-type could be turned into a one-off pop TV programme - unless they've been filming it for a very long time.
Unfortunately, I will be unable personally to pass judgement on the programme as some mystery of the ether has removed Channel 5 from my freesat receiver and refuses to restore it on any frequency. The machine must know I never watched it and I only wanted it on the menu because it could be.
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I might dip a toe in and have a look but it seems to me that all previous programmes of this type have used a donor car for which there is plenty of trade backup.....E Type, MGB, Morris Minor, Mini and similar.
Parts are readily available, including in some cases, complete new bodyshells.
I would be more interested if something like a 20s Bullnose Morris or a 30s Humber was the subject.
Ted
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programme as some mystery of the ether has removed Channel 5 from my freesat receiver and refuses to restore it on any frequency. T
AlMany channels renumbered. Re tune via Menu.
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>>I can't believe any proper restoration of an E-type
I particularly enjoyed Mark (can't remember his name but he was a vet) and his restoration of an E-Type - "Stuff" was Born. I don't remember the exact figures, but it was something like £62,000 to restore a £32,000 car.
Hwoever, it was an entertaining and seemingly realistic restoration process.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 19 Sep 12 at 21:05
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Wonder if my former colleague has finished the US-spec E-type he bought as a restoration project in 1996. I remember he came in one day with a spectacular black eye from dismantling a brake without using the right tool to restrain the springs.
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Wish I'd known before they started; got a perfectly decent GMC pick-up truck which could use a makeover.. ;-)
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>> I particularly enjoyed Mark (can't remember his name but he was a vet)
Evans.
>> I don't remember the exact figures, but it was something like £62,000 to restore a £32,000 car.
IIRC, he told his Scottish bald headed race instructor it was something like £85,000
>> However, it was an entertaining
I enjoyed all his "is born" series apart from the "A Plane is born"
I think my particular favourite was the Helicopter though.
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I remember them building a kit car GT40 replica, I think the build cost was around 30k.
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>> I remember them building a kit car GT40 replica,
I think you'll find it was an AC Cobra kit car.
Based on the underpinnings from a Ford Sierra and using the Pilgrim Sumo kit.
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>> I think you'll find it was an AC Cobra kit car.
>>
Maybe that as well, but they definitely did the GT40. I remember because it's the car I've always lusted after.
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Some old info
There is a new series starting on channel five on Monday 10th March at 8.00pm and will run for ten weeks. It is called Dream Machine and is introduced by Mark Evans who will build a Pilgrim Sumo and L&B Porsche Speedster as well as rebuild a VW Beetle, MGB Roadster, Ferrari 308 etc. It is a half hour programme but midway through the series there is a one hour special featuring the build of a CAV Ford GT40 replica.
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>> Maybe that as well, but they definitely did the GT40.
Perhaps you're thinking of another programme?
No mention of a GT40 in his list of DVDs on his website
www.markevans.co.uk/acatalog/Is_Born_DVDs.html
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>>
>> I enjoyed all his "is born" series apart from the "A Plane is born"
>>
Wifey bought me the "Bike is Born" DVD of the Harley. Lasted all of five minutes, she had to switch it off as I started throwing things at the telly.
I own an example of that particular model.... god help any poor misguided soul who actually took Evans' prattle for gospel truth. Wouldn't let him near a pushbike.
Last edited by: Harleyman on Thu 20 Sep 12 at 23:13
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>>I own an example of that particular model.... god help any poor misguided soul who actually took Evans' prattle for gospel truth. Wouldn't let him near a pushbike
Really? Well that's disappointing. I'd always quite enjoyed it and thought it was reasonably genuine.
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The fact is Mark Evans is a qualified VET. He might be quite handy with the spanners but he is an amateur, and therefore reliant on the expertise of others in the workshops around him. Ed China, now he is a mechanic I would trust.
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Surely that was the whole point? He was an amateur pursuing what some others may wish to consider. Me for one.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 21 Sep 12 at 00:15
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>> The fact is Mark Evans is a qualified VET.
When I had my Bentley I came across a semi-professional Rolls-Bentley fettler who specialised in brakes. They were big drums all round but the difficult bit was the mechanical servo with a friction clutch on the side of the gearbox, a Hispano-Suiza patent bought by Rolls-Royce I think in the late twenties. They were heavy cars and the servo was really needed. He wasn't a vet, he was a dentist in civilian life.
I really needed his services but he seemed too expensive. He wasn't though. The problem was that I was too cheap. You gotta have the bread to run a Rolls-Royce.
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I think my particular favourite was the Helicopter though......
Why thank you old chap ....
I quite like you as well......
:0)
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Interesting program, I shall watch it again.
I thought the first car was over priced at 14k, they paid over the odds for one which wasn't as nice as the first one IMO, so they might as well have coughed up the 14k in the first place.
A glass sunroof in an E Type Jag - do me a favour!
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I can't help thinking the whole finished car was a lash up. Either that or the editing didn't go into a great deal of detail as to the condition underneath or if they simply cleaned up the oily bits or completely stripped and repainted bits. It seemed the motoring equivalent of skim plastering a cracked wall!
And as for that sun roof...strewth how could Mario claim to be a classic car salesman and allow that abortion of a glass panel in the roof?
Last edited by: TheManWithNoName on Mon 24 Sep 12 at 21:50
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>>I can't help thinking the whole finished car was a lash up<<
That's the impression I got, I'd have liked to see the engine rebuilt rather than wiped over with an oily rag.
£30,000 - my ass!
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Shame they focussed so much on the two blokes shouting at each other, rather than the work that needed done on the car, how they sourced the replacement parts, how much they cost etc...
Oh, and did anybody think the reversing into an engine block wasn't deliberately set up for the camera?
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Missed it. Not to worry though, I'll either watch it online or the repeat on Thursday at 7pm.
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Missed it. Not to worry though. I don't give a stuff - it sounds as dire as I thought it would be.
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Dire indeed.
Why waste the effort starting with a Mk.II LHD auto with cheap glass sunroof?
The smokey engine due to excess carb oil and the newly painted workshop "crash" looked staged.
Loved the claimed work on the engine... cleaned the cylinders, repaired a piston and replaced the sparks!
A £6,000 cost for the restoration... they're "aving a larf".
What a filler laden bodge.... how on earth could the so called expert give a finished value of £30,000.
Not too long ago I was involved with a restored 1960's Jaguar S-type. The proper restoration cost £30,000 (I had the bills in front of me) and finished value was £20,000.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Tue 25 Sep 12 at 11:37
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I like the idea of restoring classic cars & showing you how, but the "presenters" of this show let it down. The phoney histrionics, the stage managed smokey exhaust & accident. i think the american guy was there to promote the show in the U S A. He didn't do anything. Let's hope it gets better as it goes along. Mike brewer & Ed china do it much better, as does the vet.
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If you want a laugh and a good example of the artistic use of swear filters then take a look at the two threads on this subject now running on Pistonheads.
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"I wanna Ford Zodiac, if you 'ad one of those, you 'ad class"
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Mrk 1 or Mrk 2?
Convertible?
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If you think PH's review is bad, try reading the comments on the programme's own C5 webpage:
upthear.se/classiccarrescue
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>> I can't help thinking the whole finished car was a lash up.
>> It seemed the motoring equivalent of skim plastering a cracked wall!
Very much so... I nearly cried when I saw the amount of Pon (filler) in that car...
In the day, that would have been leaded.
www.martinrobey.com/jaguar/service-restoration/1/
These guys would do a darn sight better job.......
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>>These guys would do a darn sight better job.......<<
For £6000?
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>> >>These guys would do a darn sight better job.......<<
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>> For £6000?
>>
No..a lot more.
But then again, the filler wouldn't fall off at the first pot-hole....
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A relly in sowf lunden restores classic cars, he has a fleet of olde Merc SL's and takes ages and ages restoring them properly.
I dread to think what he spends on them (a labour of love?) works 8 days a week, has done for 30 years.
Nasty git though, too much money, see.
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No doubts at all it was a complete bodge, and absolute shed. The blokes themselves were really annoying, and I would happily slap that fat git, all obviously contrived tho.
It was, however, as a piece of TV, strangely entertaining, despite the sadness that a classic car can end up like this.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 25 Sep 12 at 22:10
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Partly in response to this I spent time yesterday reconfiguring my satellite box. I find I now have C5, C5 USA, C5* and many others.
I now feel the urge to actually watch this programme.
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>> Partly in response to this I spent time yesterday reconfiguring my satellite box. I find
>> I now have C5, C5 USA, C5* and many others.
>> I now feel the urge to actually watch this programme.
>>
Sit down, have a drink, watch it once . Then you will feel better and never watch it agin.
It was : to rearrange an old phrase "absolute carp"
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I watched it. Oh dear!
In recent times we have talked a lot about returning to the UK in our old age. It looks as though I am destined to die in exile.
I have to say, I don't think the 2 plus 2 Coupe is the ugly beast that many think, but then I own an XJS and never thought a lot of the E-Type anyway.
Now that F-type at the Paris show looks tasty...
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 28 Sep 12 at 00:47
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Dumbed down telly, watched it tonight, endless recaps - for those with the attention span of a flea. Buying an E-type with a sun-roof - what had he been sniffing. Why not re-spray it to original spec....deary me. Buy a new Z4, with a warranty.
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Did anyone else catch the throwaway lines: 'replaced a worn piston'?
Like it was a two minute job.
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Spotted that - generally a broken/worn piston is replace the lot and rebore. Not a small job and really says, time for a full engine rebuild. Since the car was supposedly using shock absorbers out of a bin it fits with the general scrap nature of the 'rebuild'.
Be a laugh if no-one wanted to win the car!
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>> Spotted that - generally a broken/worn piston is replace the lot and rebore.
In the early 1950s a friend bought a secondhand car which, when the engine was stripped at a later date, was found to have one piston which was wooden!
tinyurl.com/d9xwflb
Last edited by: L'escargot on Fri 28 Sep 12 at 09:16
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I watched 5 minutes of last night's follow up program. Confirmed my opinion above...
POC.
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Bernie Fineman and Mario Pacione's next project tonight at 8pm sees them tackle a Porsche 911.
They locate a bargain model that seems ripe for 'restoration' but, discover some worrying welding work that may have damaged it beyond repair.
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"work that may have damaged it beyond repair"
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A bit like these two jokers' reputation - assuming they had one to start with!
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I don't think that I will bother tuning in after watching the last one !
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I set it record for the series last week but wont rush to watch the recording. i get shouting and agro from the kids so don't need it from two grown men having tantrums
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I looked at buying a 911. Those jokers need a budget of £25k to make a bad one good. If it's really bad, a lot more depending on the model.. The rear wheel arches are a vital part of the car integrity - think rear engine - and have some rather complex shapes virtually inaccessible without major surgery.
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I'm just wondering about the programme brief. By its nature it will attract, in the main, people who see cars as more than household appliances, by their nature they'll know a thing or two about cars....so who is it aimed at ?
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Its entertainment. Its not designed for deep technical analysis, its designed for a bit of light amusement. I would never buy any of the sheds they produce, but the program does fill its brief.
I shall be watching it with bemused and amused incredulity, and not a little ire. Good value for money TV, it beats Eastenders.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 1 Oct 12 at 18:43
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I'll watch it as well for much the same reason.
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I tuned a few 911's, a memorable experience, especially when I hit the loud pedal, raw (ROAR!) power!
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Pity about the colour :( I'd have preferred to have seen it 'finished' in a nice pale yellow/primrose.
I couldn't work with Bernie The Mouth though, he'll have a seizure one day, the way he goes on.
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It was quite enjoyable. But why not paint it in "Porsche Heritage paint" in the original colour as the auction man suggested ? That fat bald bloke comes across as a prize twit.
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I agree, cheap, uninteresting trash TV.
It was all about the two questionable 'personalities', very little about the the car or the treatment.
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Lowest Common Denominator telly.
Same as all the various American 'fly-on-the-wall' series on satellite channels, whether they're building choppers, or following around the Osbornes (or even Top Gear these days).
A bunch of contrived crap that keeps me away from the TV.
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Interested enough to splutter your outrage on here tho. You'lll be spluttering your outrage on here again next week as well.
Lowest common denominator? What pretentious claptrap.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 8 Oct 12 at 22:15
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He's absolutely right though Zero - it's designed to engage people brought up on spoon-fed reality crap. Constant re-caps after breaks, contrived situations and (think E-Type crashing, Porsche's electrics) I watch it 'cos I like cars and I'll watch the next one. I've learnt a couple of things about buying a classic. Avoid sunroofs (unless original spec) avoid anything not in an original colour.
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Avoid anything that comes out of their workshop and you should be ok.
Ok yes its contrived, ok yes its sun television, but dont tell me you didnt snigger when the rear axle and suspension fell out of the MGB on the hoist.
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The pretense is in the name and aspiration of the programme.
"Only Fools and Classics" would be a better title with the modern-day Del and Rodney following a rather lame script.
Outrage?
Methinks you've been on the Limoncello again.
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Jeez! - I missed it :( ... I'll have to catch it on Thursday at 8pm :)
www.radiotimes.com/episode/sf58q/classic-car-rescue--series-1---3-mgb
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Yep! - an enjoyable program - it obviously appeals to my infantile brain :}
Sure I could criticise the making of it - and point out the many inaccuracies.
It's a good program to record & watch while the women are watching the x factor or come dancing.
:-D
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I started to watch the MGB issue, was bored out of my skull and played online blackjack instead.
I won £30 net so a good move.
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So they keep a cheap aftermarket 1970's sunroof on an E-Type but take out a tasteful period Tudor Webasto folding sunroof on an MGB and weld in a piece of sheet metal "that will look OK with some filler"
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Criminal, I know!!
I had a Webasto (or Weathershields) jobbie fitted to my Sebring red Dolomite Sprint in the 80's, took about a couple of days to fit IIRC - luved it, and it looked the biz IMO.
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I threw my shoes at the screen when the narrator went on to praise the suspension (live rear axle and leaf springs) as being "just like a horse cart" as tho that was a good thing.
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It is a carp program (I rarely watch channel 5 anyway) there are loads of inaccuracies in the narration, but there is obviously something there that I enjoy watching.
In real life I reckon superMario would have given Bernie-the-mouth a bunch of fives by now, but I'm actually starting to warm to Bernie as I knew people like him in sowf lunden, and d'ya know what, I'd trust my five year old daughter with him, if I had one.
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The Wheeler Dealer programme was much better - both presenters are car enthusiasts and there are none of the histrionics - and the end result is an unpretentious re-model.
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>>The Wheeler Dealer programme was much better<<
Ah, that would be on Sky then :(
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I don't get that anymore, but I did see a couple of series' - enjoyable programmes.
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I've just watched the E-Type episode.
Normally I'll watch anything like this, and can ignore the shortcomings.
But this is just awful.
Artificial deadlines, engineered situations, and completely ridiculous conversations.
It’s enough to make you weep.
And really, I can remember the main story from one side of the advert break to the other without the narrator repeating the whole thing to me every time.
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Programme is watchable, just. Chiefly to laugh at the antics of the so called restorers who think shiny paint plus scrapyard mechanicals is a winning formula. If the "valuer" who appears at the end really had a name, he won't have for long. Very risky being associated with such a programme.
But then the 'restoration' of a Morgan three wheeler by Salvage Squad a few years back was perhaps more laughable as many, many details were wrong, and even the painting technique was daft. Car has subsequently been restored again, properly this time I believe, although I've no details of what was done.
Last edited by: Slidingpillar on Tue 9 Oct 12 at 20:07
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>> But then the 'restoration' of a Morgan three wheeler by Salvage Squad a few years
>> back was perhaps more laughable ...
Claire Barrett knew what she was doing, but the others less so. I seem to recall that they wrecked a water mill in the first episode. I thought it made better TV than classic car rescue though.
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>>Claire Barrett knew what she was doing
One could argue against that statement! She wielded a paintbrush and applied top-coat without primer along with the other two. She also carried on using a chocolate block in a 1930's car's wiring. (Ok so I confess the wiring of my car is not period, but at least I did things properly and wrapped the loom when finished).
She was at least eye candy though...
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I did the last ' restoration ' on my car about 20 yrs ago when I realised it had been off the road too long and only needed a dozen or so jobs to be roadworthy.
One of them was some wiring. A friend, into old Rovers, had half a dozen rolls of correct period cable and I scrounged a couple of yards of each colour. I also found bullet connectors at the local auto-leccy. It made all the difference for stuff like the washer pump and rear indicators.
My policy was to make everything visible as period as possible.....didn't stop me running a length of 7 core up the A post and over the doors behind the headlining to cope with any future needs, though. Even the tax disc holder is a period bakelite one from Alf Thomas' garage in Bedfordshire.....Jowett agents.
Little things make a difference, as with railways, there's always someone who knows more than you do....and will point it out !
Ted
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There's a difference between period and practicality.
When I asked a local museum about modern materials, they replied that they wouldn't be considered in a period engine.
I can understand there may be a problem with ultra-modern lubricants in very old engines, but surely using reasonably modern oils should prolong their working lives?
I thought that modern RTV, silicone mastics could even make an old Triumph motorcycle oil-tight, or should we expect them to have an oil puddle underneath?
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>> I thought that modern RTV, silicone mastics could even make an old Triumph motorcycle oil-tight,
>> or should we expect them to have an oil puddle underneath?
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Most of the problems with Triumphs, at least in the later years, were caused by poor component fit and surface mating. When blueprinted they do not leak.
It's fashionable to blame this on vertically split crankcases; Japanese cases are horizontally split and this is apparently better for keeping the oil where it's supposed to be. Having said that, Harleys run vertically split cases even today and are not prone to leaking; well at least not on the cases!
Having said that, Tom, modern sealants can make a difference, but only if properly used. I have seen more than one bike engine trashed through over-zealous application of Hermetite, usually when a stray blob of same clogs a vital oilway.
Last edited by: Harleyman on Tue 9 Oct 12 at 23:16
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>>I can understand there may be a problem with ultra-modern lubricants
>>in very old engines, but surely using reasonably modern oils should
>>prolong their working lives?
>>I thought that modern RTV, silicone mastics could even make an
>>old Triumph motorcycle oil-tight, or should we expect them to
>>have an oil puddle underneath?
Modern oils are generally not good the older the engine. From as recent as the 80's the lack of ZDDP in a modern oil can be a problem, but you can buy the stuff from Frost and I think Mobil racing oil has it. But if you go further back, the choice of what is suitable is pretty good, as long as you are careful to get the right stuff. You won't get suitable oil from Halfords though (well you might for the 70s and 80s). I can get straight 30, 40 and 50 oils in low detergent form with ratings that vastly exceed what was available in the 30s. These days there is no excuse for a veteran, vintage or pre-WW2 engine being better lubricated than in period.
Be very wary of silicone sealant. It's all to easy to either block an oil-way or leave a thread of the stuff that gets loose and then blocks an oil-way. Many good engine rebuilders won't give the stuff house room.
Last edited by: Slidingpillar on Tue 9 Oct 12 at 23:39
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>> >>Claire Barrett knew what she was doing
>>
>> One could argue against that statement! She wielded a paintbrush and applied top-coat without primer..
I was forgetting that moment! I hope she's suitably embarrassed!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claire_Barratt
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Anyone who restores a Porsche 911 without checking - and replacing the timing chain tensioner is a muppet.
Well known problem area.. The oil seals leak in the tensioner and it goes all floppy..
They did not even check it...
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www.radiotimes.com/episode/sjv7t/classic-car-rescue--series-1---4-mustang
Bernie Fineman and Mario Pacione restore a Ford Mustang, a classic American sports car that was one of the fastest-selling models in history.
They discover how it developed a mystique that proved irresistible to motorists following its launch in 1964, and also became highly popular with the era's movie stars.
:}
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Seems to have gone all Canadian now and even worse.
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>> www.radiotimes.com/episode/sjv7t/classic-car-rescue--series-1---4-mustang
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>> Bernie Fineman and Mario Pacione restore a Ford Mustang, a classic American sports car
The first car that they have restored where I've liked the colour. All the others have been a bit over the top, very much a product Bernie Finemans' character I reckon - loud.
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I quite enjoyed the Mustang restoration - they made a good job of it I thought.
I didn't bother with the Cadillac this week though, not really my sort of car.
They are going to attack a mid 70's Mini on Monday I believe, rather them than me :(
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the fat bold cockerney geezer was on the wright stuff ( channel 5) a few weeks ago.. apparently he knew the kray twins and used to drink with harry the hat or somebody in the blind begger battle cruiser... do all londoners know the kray twins? cant stand the place to be honest... i had the misfortune to live in basildon for six months , never again
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All cockerneys are bold, beekeeper.
Harry the Hat would be Jack the Hat, mayhap??
Basildon is in Essex, I believe ;)
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basildon is in essex... so are all the cockanees .. didnt london sling them all out of tut' east end so the posh people could live there? some ones got to pick the hops you know so we ansells bitter men can enjoy a pint of real beer as apposed to the shandy brigade
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>> basildon is in essex... so are all the cockanees ..
Some of them yes but they are spread all the way from romford to benfleet. Those who did not move out to the medway town that is. And that only because you could be nearer to Sarfend or Mar-git.
>> out of tut' east end so the posh people could live there? some ones got
>> to pick the hops you know so we ansells bitter men can enjoy a pint
>> of real beer as apposed to the shandy brigade
Alas most of the kent hops went into Charrington beers. Ansels is a Midlands slop
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He has to say he knew the cray twins, its needed for his big fat cockney chappie image.
It was Jack the Hat by the way, and he wasn't killed in the blind beggar, it was George Cornell.
I guess everyone in the east end has been in the blind beggar at some time, cos most have been into whitechapel hospital for some reason or other, and thats the nearest boozer.
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I worked around there for a while, but of course I only went into the Blind Beggar to see what it was like, and stand on the spot once anointed with George Cornell's brains. It isn't a welcoming place but it doesn't need to be. It's a big handsome stand-alone East End boozer with sardonic world-weary bar staff. A big local with a reputation, but a local really. Somehow with a wounded, tragic feel, desolate. But perhaps that is a pseud's corner observation.
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If you're "lucky" your visit to the Beggar will coincide with one of Frankie Fraser's tourist trips with a coach load of Kray groupies, an experience for which they pay handsomely. Odd that they still have legendary status when at least one of them was a paedophile and a serial rapist.
As for the diamond geezer on Classic Car rescue, he doesn't look old enough to have known the Kray twins.
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As for the terrible twins, I am afraid we had little in common. They were far too classy for me. I mean look at those two-grand whistles... you just wouldn't dare would you?
Just as well I often think. I fear intimacy with the Krays might have given me ideas above my station.
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or you head nailed to a coffee table ! :-)
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The Blind Beggar palls into insignificance next to MidSomer. 222 murders at the last count.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 27 Oct 12 at 20:43
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If you had bothered to listen to him speaking on the Wright Stuff, which I did, he says he ran a car repair workshop that the Krays used to get their cars maintained at. Previously to that he spent 9 years working for Rolls Royce after he left school.
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I've just watched this. They made a big thing of the fact that it was unique because it had an electric clock, and then drilled the thing and put a spoiler on it!
That and the pretend arguments and crises are too much.
Mind you, glorious looking when it was finished.
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We've got the crays in our nearby pond. Nasty little blighters - they'll go for anything.
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Classic Car Rescue - Mike Hannon
