I picked up a ticket from a car park company this morning, I was in the car park on two occasions but did not exceed the two hour limit. I have receipts for diesel and another purchase on the other side of the town during the period on the ticket.
Should I appeal or ignore it?
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Ignore it - you are safe until 1st October when the law changes
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>> car park on two occasions but did not exceed the two hour limit.
Something to do with a 'no return with x hours' rule?
Last edited by: Focus on Wed 26 Sep 12 at 16:11
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>> Something to do with a 'no return within x hours' rule?
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I'd ignore it until you get another communication, in case you don't.
Than I'd tell them why. But I wouldn't lose the receipt.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 26 Sep 12 at 16:35
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There is a no return within 3 hour clause on the signs. I have a diesel receipt timed at 10:41 and another receipt timed at 11:46 both at least a a couple of miles away and apart. The same card was used for the purchases.
The ticket states a continuous period over this time.
All relevant receipts and communications received will be filed.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 26 Sep 12 at 16:52
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So did you return to the car park within 3 hours of leaving ON? Or shall you plead the fifth?
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Another bit of info, when I discussed the situation with the car park attendant he showed me his notebook which had my cars presence logged while I have receipts putting it elsewhere.
I did not mention this to him. :-)
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>> I have receipts putting it elsewhere.
>>
Do the receipts show your reg number?
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No, they show the last digits of my card, as does the receipt for the purchases made at the car park where the ticket was issued. It would be impossible to get to the locations without a car and I do not buy diesel for anyone else. If it came to it my car would be on the fuel stations CCTV.
No one has access to my card.
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ON is, unless roaming, in Scotland so 1st October does not have significance it has in England and Wales. Is there a process to proceed against the keeper up there?
Noticed while at hospital appt this morning that warning signs have been re-worded to tkae account of Prot freedoms Act changes with explicit description of nature of contract and charge under it for infringing P&D terms.
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>>I did not mention this to him. :-)
Why not? Presumably if you had then this would never have happened? Why would you let it happen rather than just pointing out his mistake?
If you're just grandstanding, then I do hope an injustice is done.
If you're not, then I am intrigued about your thinking.
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>> >>I did not mention this to him. :-)
>>
>> Why not? Presumably if you had then this would never have happened? Why would you
>> let it happen rather than just pointing out his mistake?
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>> If you're just grandstanding, then I do hope an injustice is done.
>>
>> If you're not, then I am intrigued about your thinking.
>>
His line when I queried the ticket was to show me his notebook and to tell me to appeal as he could not withdraw the ticket. He was obviously not going to move from his decision. I had been home and did not have my earlier receipts with me.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 26 Sep 12 at 18:09
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>> There is a no return within 3 hour clause on the signs. I have a
>> diesel receipt timed at 10:41 and another receipt timed at 11:46 both at least a
>>
So can you tell us:
1st Time entered car park
1st Time left car park
2nd Time entered car park
2nd Time left car park
>> All relevant receipts and communications received will be filed. >>
Unless those receipts show your Reg No, they are of no use.
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Bearing in mind that you probably have to show that you were out of the car park for the required 3(?) hours.
Of course, there is the other approach; Were you at fault? Did you infringe the restrictions?
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Bank/credit card statements plus the receipts may help - towards ON's case. It probably wasn't worth mentioning any timing anomalies to the attendant as once a ticket has been issued that is ir SFAIK - pay up or appeal.
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I would expect "max stay 2 hrs no return within 3hrs' to mean you can enter, park for no longer than 3 hours but that whatever duration your stay once out, no return until 2 hours have elapsed.
But it's always fun to try it on.
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I think the only proof that my car was elsewhere during the period claimed on the invoice will be the fuel station CCTV. I will fall foul of the no return within 3 hours as I made two purchases 2 hours apart, at 12:xx and 14:xx each stop no more than 20 minutes.
The parking ticket states 09:xx to 13:xx.
The only thing that ties the purchases together is the same card was used.
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*I have to say, thats a crap car you have there ON, filling it up twice a day?
And you spoke to the attendant? I wonder how good his facial memory is, putting you with the car, he might even have noted the conversation.
Given * above that leaves you open for an argument in court your card receipt was for two different cars.
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Perhaps one visit was fuel for the car and the other was for pies and Red Bull? >:)
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>> *I have to say, thats a crap car you have there ON, filling it up
>> twice a day?
>>
A bit slow of understanding today Z?
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Either way, the receipts prove you and your card were elsewhere, not you and your car.
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>> Either way, the receipts prove you and your card were elsewhere, not you and your
>> car.
>>
True, looks like an ignore the ticket and possible subsequent threats rather than appeal.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 26 Sep 12 at 19:12
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Aye but look what probably happened to iffy. Probably doing porridge. E_mailed him BTW.
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What gets up my nose is I know the parking attendant is lying, and my car was not there for anything like the period on the ticket
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>>I know the parking attendant is lying, and my car was not there for anything like the period on the ticket
Really? Lying? Why would he do that? Or have you previously run off with his favourite cat?
Perhaps he made a mistake, perhaps he didn't care, perhaps he's incompetent.
Nonethless, you did breach the restrictions, so I'd say ignore and hope is the best way. But if you hear more, then a bluff is about your only next step.
Well, other than paying, that is.
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>> What gets up my nose is I know the parking attendant is lying, and my
>> car was not there for anything like the period on the ticket
>>
A pleb's entry his notebook counts for more than your word.
In any case, it seems you are admitting that you breached the regulations. If it was a free private car park, then follow iffy's advice on his thread about such tickets.
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>> In any case, it seems you are admitting that you breached the regulations. If it
>> was a free private car park, then follow iffy's advice on his thread about such
>> tickets.
>>
Assuming the law in Scotland is same as England will be until Monday then follow Iffy is probably good advice.
Will be interesting to see what happens in E&W over next few months as these cases filter through to enforcement by summons. There was a car park owner on You & Yours today quite bullish about chances of recovery.
We'll see.
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>>iffy. Probably doing porridge
Hope he's not sharing with Big camp Ron..
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No point emailing him, his caravan is doing an Ark impersonation, could be half way over the North Sea by now.
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>> No point emailing him, his caravan is doing an Ark impersonation, could be half way
>> over the North Sea by now.
I had similar thought about his home territory.
Or maybe he's having his other hip done?
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As iffy is testing the ignore it route I am going to try the appeal.
I will send a letter with a time-line, copies of the receipts, and and offering to get CCTV stills from Tesco to prove that my car was in their petrol station during the period of their parking ticket.
Plan B is to ignore it if the appeal fails.
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>> As iffy is testing the ignore it route I am going to try the appeal.
>>
>> I will send a letter with a time-line, copies of the receipts, and and offering
>> to get CCTV stills from Tesco to prove that my car was in their petrol
>> station during the period of their parking ticket.
>>
>> Plan B is to ignore it if the appeal fails.
You cant go from plan A to plan B. Plan B falls apart because you have acknowledged the fact *you* did park there. Plan B only works because they have no driver to deal with, you will be giving them one.
Its plan A or Plan B, not both.
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>>Its plan A or Plan B, not both.
My thought too.
I'm also wondering if, when he produces the times and evidence, he will simultaneously prove that even if he came and went, he returned within 3 hours .
Sorry to talk about you as if you weren't here ON.
Now here's a thought...what if I were to park, and leave within the maximum stay and go home - and then the boss was to go out in the same car, and park it there within the no-return period - would that be OK as it is the driver, not the car, that has to be in breach of contract?
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>> Now here's a thought...what if I were to park, and leave within the maximum stay
>> and go home - and then the boss was to go out in the same
>> car, and park it there within the no-return period - would that be OK as
>> it is the driver, not the car, that has to be in breach of contract?
>>
I will keep that in mind, I will not say who was driving the car for both visits to the car park.
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Not to make any assumptions about your financial position, but given the time and effort required, the fact that you did actually break the rules, and that if they decide to push it you're screwed, is it really worth the effort?
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>>Its plan A or Plan B, not both.
My thought too.
I'm also wondering if, when he produces the times and evidence, he will simultaneously prove that even if he came and went, he returned within 3 hours .
Sorry to talk about you as if you weren't here ON.
Now here's a thought...what if I were to park, and leave within the maximum stay and go home - and then the boss was to go out in the same car, and park it there within the no-return period - would that be OK as it is the driver, not the car, that has to be in breach of contract?
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Plan A (and there only really is a Plan A) is to ignore it.
Totally.
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>> >>Its plan A or Plan B, not both.
>>
>> My thought too.
Again? :)
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>> >> >>Its plan A or Plan B, not both.
>> >>
>> >> My thought too.
>>
>> Again? :)
>>
As Manatee returned after 3 minutes, he is within the rules.
As the saying goes, if it is worth saying once, ....
:)
Last edited by: John H on Wed 26 Sep 12 at 22:05
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Don't make things overcomplicated..........ignore them. They don't know who parked the car and you don't have to be in touch with them.
Make 'em spend a bit of money threatening you and if you want rid just email them suggesting they contact the person who parked the car. Works for me although I must be on some ' deniers list ' 'cos Excel don't send me tickets for their shyster car park here anymore !
Never let them have your signature !
Ted
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Until 1st Oct we are on the old system. You have been given a legally unenforceable invoice for some perceived offence and for an amount that well exceeds any notional loss that may have been sustained so ignore it and ignore anything else which follows and it will go away, eventually.
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>> Until 1st Oct we are on the old system.
Let me add for a third time....
Old Navy is, so far as I know, in Scotland. The changes on 1 October affect England and Wales.
This stuff is devolved in Scotland and clamping was banned there several years ago. Whether the parking industry north of the border got the 'quid pro quo' of keeper liability I do not know.
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Apologies! I thought he was touring Scotland, not resident there.
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>> Apologies! I thought he was touring Scotland, not resident there.
>>
I think he is English, but went over the side some years ago.
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>> I think he is English, but went over the side some years ago.
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Correct. :-)
Having slept on it and done a little research I am going with plan B, ignore them until the court summons lands on the mat. Then recruit a legal representative.
I will keep you informed.
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>> ignore them until the court summons lands on the mat. Then recruit a legal representative.
>>
This guy didn't get legal help:
www.combinedparkingsolutions.com/downloads/dorrington.PDF
forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t70809.html
The company that won the case, www.combinedparkingsolutions.com/legal-issues/ ,
has been suspended by DVLA recently
forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=73002
However, despite the suspension: " Mike Perkins, Operations and Strategy manager, Combined Parking Solutions, has been appointed a board member within the AOS (Approved Operator Scheme) at the BPA (British Parking Association)."
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UPDATE.
To cut a long story short, I appealed with a copy of the receipt for fuel and the offer of CCTV proof that my car was elsewhere during the period of their PCN. The appeal was accepted.
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Car park charge ticket. - Meldrew
