I have just ordered a new Honda CR-V 2.2 iDTEC and it should arrive around the middle of December.
Went to the dealer this afternoon to look at one, and ended up buying it. It will be in Polished Metal Metallic with leather ivory upholstery. Hope it will be as reliable as my Accord Tourer.
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Is this the new model yet? There have been some 'deals' on the old one...I was given to understand there will be a fairly hefty price increase for the new models too.
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Congratulations, 'spect you'll enjoy it. I love the smell of a brand new car and the feeling of being the first to own it.
Is waiting until December normal? And do you pay for it now or when you receive the car?
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This is the new model, and it is lovely. Granted. they are quite pricey, but I have managed to get £1000 off the list price and will get a loyalty cheque from Honda for £500. I have accepted £3000 for my Accord so will have to pay £25,905.
Looking forward to getting it. The only downside is that I'm going into hospital tomorrow for a total knee replacement, and won't be able to drive for six weeks after I return from hospital.
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>> This is the new model
The New Topic 'Model' drop-down doesn't appear to have a CRV-IV yet. You should have waited :)
Last edited by: Focus on Thu 18 Oct 12 at 17:59
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>> This is the new model, and it is lovely. Granted. they are quite pricey, but
>> I have managed to get £1000 off the list price and will get a loyalty
>> cheque from Honda for £500. I have accepted £3000 for my Accord so will have
>> to pay £25,905.
>>
>> Looking forward to getting it. The only downside is that I'm going into hospital tomorrow
>> for a total knee replacement, and won't be able to drive for six weeks after
>> I return from hospital.
Hope the op works OK ;-)
Let us know how you like the car?
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Best of luck with the op and recovery going to plan or ahead of schedule :-)
Did you order an automatic just in case? (Sorry but you have to joke about sometimes don't you - life is too short).
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I bought the old model 2 weeks ago, CRV EX Auto £20,700 So cheque was £13,700 + X-trail.
Old model should be best of breed, new model could have teething issues..........
I thought about the new model but could not part with another £9,000-£10,000 for the similar model - some nice add-ons on the new one but that could not sway me.
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I don't want an automatic and VED is over the top for one. I can't understand why Honda put 18" wheels on the top of the range models which increase fuel consumption and VED.
As I have two dogs I wanted leather upholstery, so had to go for the EX.
The site need to update the drop downs to CR-V lV 2012 -.
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Didn't realise the new one was in the dealers yet - I got a post-card a couple of days ago inviting me to the launch event. Had to register online and was surprised our trusty local dealer, whom we've bought 2 Jazzii off for Mrs P, wasn't listed.
Turns out Honda have canned them! Can't believe it - I held them up as a shining star amongst car dealerships. They've been Honda dealers for 44 years.
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I had a 'phone call today from Lightcliffe Honda in Warrington inviting me to their launch of the CR-V tomorrow when Honda representatives will be there. I had to tell them that I had ordered one yesterday from their counterpart in Southport. Would have liked to have gone, but I'm waiting for my transport to hospital.
I seem to recall that you live in the Chester area, or am I wrong? If you do it's not too far to Warrington.
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I've been invited as well to the Llandudno branch !
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I came home from work to find an invitation to attend the launch too; I've never owned a Honda or 4x4 of any kind, and the only Honda machine I've bought in the last few years is a lawn mower!!
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>> I seem to recall that you live in the Chester area, or am I wrong?
>> If you do it's not too far to Warrington.
>>
I do live near Chester and there still is a Honda dealer in Chester but they'll be moving to Cheshire Oaks. The dealership I dealt with was TwoMills at Ledsham.
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>>
>> Turns out Honda have canned them! Can't believe it - I held them up as
>> a shining star amongst car dealerships. They've been Honda dealers for 44 years.
>>
Same thing in Scotland - gone in the last few years are the "family owned" long serving dealers...Chathams in Edinburgh / Helensburgh Honda and other sites have fallen to the bigger chains.......
Shame really but Honda need volume............they need a range of new cars that have a wider appeal and cover more of the market...........a sports car, an MPV and a "run of the mill" car to match the appeal of Korean makers.
That said I have just bought my 3rd brand new Honda in 17 yrs
1995 Civic Coupe, Dunblane Honda ...........no more. Sold 2003 110K, next to nil repairs
2001 Civic Aerodeck Helensburgh Honda ..........no more. Sold 2007 93K, next to nil repairs
2012 CRV EX Auto,currently 300 miles so no real comment on car other than it burns quite a bit of fuel
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>> 2012 CRV EX Auto,currently 300 miles so no real comment on car other than it
>> burns quite a bit of fuel
You should have waited for the new model.
Incidentally, I returned from hospital today as I was woken up at 7.00 am to say that my operation was cancelled. Not sure whether to laugh or cry.
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>>
>> >> 2012 CRV EX Auto,currently 300 miles so no real comment on car other than
>> it
>> >> burns quite a bit of fuel
>>
>> You should have waited for the new model.
I paid £20.7K for an EX petrol Auto, a new one would be £30.9K (less a discount if I was lucky)...new one has some nice new features but not £9-10Ks worth of nice ...IMHO
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>> Incidentally, I returned from hospital today as I was woken up at 7.00 am to say that my operation was cancelled. Not sure whether to laugh or cry.
>>
Kneeds must.
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>>2012 CRV EX Auto,currently 300 miles so no real comment on car other than it burns quite a bit of fuel
That's a petrol is it Falkirk?
I had a CRV 2 petrol auto. I could squeeze 30 out of it, if I wanted to make progress it was nearer 25/26.
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It could perhaps, well arguably at least, be considered surprising that car manufacturers still "get away" with offering mainstream vehicles which can't average more than 40mpg when there are so many good cars available now which can easily do so.
I sort of get it when they are selling supercars where the buyers maybe have different priorities but for an average Joe's family or personal transport it seems an odd decision to buy a new one which is fuel inefficient in the modern world.
Not trying to get it banned or anything, each to their own and all that but it just seems odd now to deliberately buy a car which will be increasingly less attractive both to its first owner and to any potential subsequent ones. Unless of course fuel is set to get cheaper again any time soon..?
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>> It could perhaps, well arguably at least, be considered surprising that car manufacturers still "get
>> away" with offering mainstream vehicles which can't average more than 40mpg when there are so
>> many good cars available now which can easily do so.
A dealer salesman told me customers get more exercised about annual road-tax costs than they do about MPG. I didn't delve into it with him, but got the impression that it was nothing to do with people making any connection between the two things.
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I guess not an issue to some. I remember whatcar used to do a circle showing the % of costs during 3 years of a car from new. Fuel was 1/4 to 1/3 never much more, depreciation was always the big hit. Interestingly VED was always a sliver of the three years. I know that depreciation will be affected by fuel costs. I suppose 4x4 are a bit different.
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If you aren't doing many miles, it's not a big issue either for running cost or the carbon footprint. The boss's Civic does 34 or so, but it, done 45,000 miles in 10 years.
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MPG is definitely not an issue for me. I probably drive 6k pa max these days...i walk to my part time job, do not go on motoring holidays with my car, live in a low risk postcode area, and have age and NCD on my side.
My petrol car averages about 31mpg and cost just under £10k when I bought it 21 months ago on an '04 plate. New I think it was listed in excess of £30k, and is now worth around £7k on a nice Spring day. Four quality tyres, servicing, MOTs and a tow bar have cost me approx £1500 during my period of ownership, and my current insurance is £251.
With high depreciation on 'gas guzzlers', this puts the few people in my circumstances in a favourable position to buy something that several years ago would have been beyond reach.
Might as well enjoy it whilst I can.
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Went to Lightcliffe Honda in Warrington yesterday and saw the EX in the colour that I had chosen, but with black leather, and not the ivory that I had chosen. I was blown away with the all of the goodies. Sat nav voice controlled and responds to all sorts of requests. All sorts of electronic controls on the driver's seat and other goodies. I guess the manual will take forever to read, and digest. Quite excited now about getting it.
Asked the Honda rep why they fit 18" wheels to the top models and not 17", as they do to the others, and thus increase fuel consumption and emissions which increases VED. He said they responded to owners' wishes. Why not a no cost option for 18" wheels if people want it?
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>> increases VED. He said they responded to owners' wishes. Why not a no cost option
>> for 18" wheels if people want it?
Because it carries a cost. Anything "not standard" means an increase in build costs, and at what point do you stop with the "bespoke order" thing and the increasing costs it brings.
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>> Asked the Honda rep why they fit 18" wheels to the top models and not
>> 17", as they do to the others, and thus increase fuel consumption and emissions which
>> increases VED. He said they responded to owners' wishes. Why not a no cost option
>> for 18" wheels if people want it?
Yes it's stupid. I don't believe people want them as such, though some people will pay for a feature that distinguishes the model from the one below - in other words, it's to help justify the price hike. Honda have annoyed me with this too - if you want leather seats, you have to fork out for a very expensive and not very good sat nav, and other things you don't want like the wheels.
I wonder if the dealer could broker a swap for you to 17" wheels? I'd be surprised if the overall diameter wasn't the same (i.e. no difference in gearing or calibration) and the 17s will be alloys too?
The main drawback, if you can call it that, is that you would have a non-standard car when you came to sell.
An alternative is to get a spare set. The Outlander came with 225/55r18. The fitted Conti Cross are c. £150 each. I got a set of Pirelli Scorpion STR 215/70r16 on steel wheels for £660 delivered and had those on from October to June. I'm about to put them back on for the winter. I'm wearing out cheaper tyres when they are on (about £95 each), and the ride is better. It also saves damage on the stupid laquered wheels.
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>. I guess the manual will take forever to read, and digest. Quite excited now about getting it.
I have just spent a good few hours, sorry many hours, reading manuals and pressing buttons on my new "Old model CRV"
Satnav was OK really. HFT "hands free telephone" takes a bit of getting used to. It says you can import from your phone...........this is true but what it does not tell you is that the numbers are from your phone, numbers on your Sim card do not come across.
Tip for Robbie34 - clean out your numbers on your mobile and make sure the numbers you want to transfer to the HFT are on the phone and not on the Sim card. Uploading takes seconds only.
Once the phone numbers are in the SATnav you then have to train the HFT with the voice command names and some combinations it does not like
For Example, 2 x sons
Dxxxx Home, worked as did Dxxxx Mobile and Dxxxx Work
Next Son Cxxxx Home worked, but not Cxxxx Mobile or Cxxxx Work
I speak with a Scottish accent and it understood me quite well. It had real difficulty with my son's voice. Funny really as I watched a Youtube clip of a salesman with a Southern USA drawl and all his commands worked first time - at least they appeared to work 1st time. Maybe that was the Demo, reality is a bit different!
Tip for Robbie34, Youtube has a number of short examples - the models of Satnav etc varies but the HFT part of voice commands is common to all.
Question for Robbie34, Do you wear tinted glasses /sunglasses......IMHO the beige interior was a bit overpowering. Black is more manageable.
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I am with you on that legacylad. Exactly my thoughts on this 3 series of mine. I love it to bits. Cost peanuts to buy - goes like a dream, still pulling around 37mpg and will still be worth something in a couple of years time when I come to sell...
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The reply about extra cost by Zero is nonsense. MB have dozens of no cost options on their vehicles and doesn't seem to be a problem. The Honda rep suggested that I could purchase 17" wheels and put those on. The MPG isn't a lot different, but smaller wheels would not change the VED bracket.
I have black leather in my present car and it shows every mark from my dogs - wet makes white marks on the leather when it dries so have to continually polish it off. Light colour does not show the dirt so easily.
I only use my mobile 'phone as an emergency so not worried about inputting numbers etc.
Last edited by: Robbie34 on Sun 21 Oct 12 at 12:48
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Nonsence?
Your explanation for why you cant get them seems to be missing. You explain why.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 21 Oct 12 at 12:50
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>> Nonsence?
>>
>> Your explanation for why you cant get them seems to be missing. You explain why.
Where does the extra cost come from? 17" wheels are fitted to all other cars in the range except for the top two. 17" wheels are cheaper, so Honda would save money if these were specified. The top of the range Hondas are made to order according to the spec that you want added, so to put 17" wheels on an EX incurs no more expense when the car is being built. I can't buy my car off the shelf due to its specification.
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>> Where does the extra cost come from? 17" wheels are fitted to all other cars
>> in the range except for the top two. 17" wheels are cheaper, so Honda would
>> save money if these were specified.
Still don't see your explanation why its not offered as an option on your car. Its because Honda is a low volume seller in the UK, so they will offer a limited or zero range of built to order options for build cost reasons, but will offer as a package what will sell. You might not want them but most people do on upper spec cars (you can argue that they don't have a valid reason for wanting them). And before you say Mercedes can do it, you are not buying a Mercedes, who have much larger volumes in Europe.
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Not sure Mercedes does do it, at least not for wheels; there's still a pretty strict 16-17-18 progression, at least in the E. Taking, say, Humph's E250 Sport back to 16-inchers would involve much the same expensive swap-out as for the CRV.
Long options lists aren't the sole preserve of the 'premium' makers, though. It can take a very long time to run through the options for a Skoda Superb. Ford options lists can be long too. As Zero says, volume probably comes into it - but then Toyota barely offers options at all, and that certainly has volume, so it may be more a matter of individual makers' policies.
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It seems to be a Japanese thing. Probably harks back to the days when they were actually made in Japan.
I remember my father buying a Mazda 1300 in about 1970. A lot of people were still very conservative about "foreign" cars (uncle Ken was suspected of being a bit odd for always having Peugeots) and there was active hostility from many to the Japanese.
One way they sought to break into the market was that the cars came with "everything". Which basically meant a heater and a radio. As such, there were no extras, and in any case they were weeks coming on the boat which would have made built to order a pretty long job - I don't think they had got around top building variations on the production line then. The heater on my father's previous car, a Viva SL no less, was extra cost.
The Outlanders do have a leather option for the next-to-top-grade, but I think even that is basically just another standard model.t
I can't believe it would be in nay way difficult or uneconomic for Honda to offer variable extras now - they just choose not to do it for marketing reasons. The CRVs are built in Swindon.
Last edited by: Manatee on Sun 21 Oct 12 at 15:54
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>> Still don't see your explanation why its not offered as an option on your car.
>> Its because Honda is a low volume seller in the UK, so they will offer
>> a limited or zero range of built to order options for build cost reasons, but
>> will offer as a package what will sell. You might not want them but most
>> people do on upper spec cars (you can argue that they don't have a valid
>> reason for wanting them). And before you say Mercedes can do it, you are not
>> buying a Mercedes, who have much larger volumes in Europe.
Honda offer a range of wheels for the CR-V. I could specify a different 18" wheel or have a choice of two 19" wheels. Why would it cost more to put on a set of 17" wheels on the assembly line rather than a variety of 18" or 19" wheels?
Mercedes offer a lot ofno cost options on the E class. Go to their web site and vehicle builder. I was thinking of an E class estate that I can get cheaper then a CR-V through one of the on-line dealers.
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>> Honda offer a range of wheels for the CR-V. I could specify a different 18"
>> wheel or have a choice of two 19" wheels. Why would it cost more to
>> put on a set of 17" wheels on the assembly line rather than a variety
>> of 18" or 19" wheels?
Because they are NOT building to order for the uk market. Honda are NOT a volume maker for the UK market, the economics of mass production are such that its not just the cost of the wheels. There is much more involved.
>> Mercedes offer a lot of no cost options on the E class. Go to their web
>> site and vehicle builder. I was thinking of an E class estate that I can
>> get cheaper then a CR-V through one of the on-line dealers.
Its pointless going on about MB a: you are not buying one, b: they have a much more diverse and increased market share than Honda in Europe.
At the end of the day, you cant have them on the car you ordered, and clearly its not that much of a deal breaker or you would have ordered a MB.
You have to assume Honda know how to sell cars and make money on it - they have been doping it a long time.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 21 Oct 12 at 17:03
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You haven't answered my question. Why would it cost more to fit 17" wheels as a no cost option? Different types and sizes of wheels are already on the assembly line so why would it cost more to fit a different size or type? CR-Vs are built to customer specification so it matters little as to any difference.
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CR-Vs built to spec?
Their option lists are very low - the 'built to spec' is sales patter for "we got badly burned in 2008 because we had fields full of stock we couldn't offload, so now we make them as we sell them".
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>> CR-Vs built to spec?
>>
>> Their option lists are very low - the 'built to spec' is sales patter for
>> "we got badly burned in 2008 because we had fields full of stock we couldn't
>> offload, so now we make them as we sell them".
Not so. There are a lot of options on a new CR-V. As well as wheel options - there are four - there also four different packs. On top of these there are also: Adaptive Cruise Control; Lane Keeping Assist System and Collision Mitigation Braking System which all cost extra. Obviously, there is also the choice of colour and uphostery.
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They have about 20 variants - each can have one of 3 different packs and a couple of different types of wheel - these will be done in job lots. Adaptive cruise/lane avoidance has always been a 'halo' model in the Honda Accord/Legend/CR-V range.
Compare this:
drivethedeal.com/buy-a-new-car/honda/cr-v+estate/index.html
(and have a look at the options for any model) with this:
www.drivethedeal.com/buy-a-new-car/skoda/superb+hatchback/index.html
If they are "built to spec" then their "speccing" is rubbish.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Sun 21 Oct 12 at 18:41
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>>CR-Vs built to spec?
Honda offer 2 engines in CRV (3 next year with 1.6 diesel) but few factory fit options - most or many can be retro-fitted after production - wheels, trim finishes, additional electronics
Contrast Ford Fiesta - 12 engines. 3 / 5 door, lots of trim levels................not just different wheel sizes and some bolt on trims, spoilers, lights etc
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>> You haven't answered my question. Why would it cost more to fit 17" wheels as
>> a no cost option? Different types and sizes of wheels are already on the assembly
>> line
No they are not, stuff arrives on a just in time basis, and the base cost of the items depends on the volume.
>>so why would it cost more to fit a different size or type?
See above The cost of the component is not the only cost.
CR-Vs
>> are built to customer specification so it matters little as to any difference.
If they were built to customer spec they would be offering you the option to specify it They are not so they are not.
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You can't change the wheels because doing so is most certainly NOT a no cost change for Honda.
As said before, Honda don't sell volume in the UK, so when the production line switches to UK builds, they build series of cars in the combination of colours and trims most in demand. To get your 17 inch wheels would require keeping track of your designated car through the entire build, then sending in a worker to swap wheels on THAT one car.
How much would all that cost? And what if you cancel the order - what do they do with the non-standard car then? That, for example, is why leather is a dealer fit option on Subarus in Ireland. Effectively all cars are imported in identical spec, then modified at the time of sale.
Rather, if you want such changes, the way to get them is to make it a condition of your purchase that the dealer swap out the 18s on your car with the 17s from a lower spec one. You get what you want and he gets a no-cost upgrade he can sell on the other car.
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Which suggests the UK production line at Honda cannot cope with variety of builds. But probably the same in Japan. Mazda are the same with builds.
Compare with VW who will let you specify many variations to spec and the parts arrive just in time for that car at various assembly points to make your car. GM, Ford, etc will all do the same.
If you're happy for a factory build (i.e. not expecting a car from stock), I see most companies will let you select all sorts of variations. Although I didn't change the base spec of my VW too much, I could have easily gone OTT:
- Sunroof
- Different colour leather - but did elect for climate seats
- Folding door mirrors
- Heated windscreen
- Uprated stereo system
- Different satnav unit
- Reverse camera
- Different wheels
- Different trim inside - mine has the default Au but could have had walnut I think
- Rear heated seats
- Rear side airbags
- Adaptive cruise control
- Lane keep assist
- iPod connection (standard now probably)
- Colour MFD
- Auto parking
- Auto high beam (not an option for my car)
The list goes on... And Audi's have even more options. And my car has some options as standard but lower spec version do not like:
- Leather seats
- Cruise control
- Adaptive suspension
- Front fog lights
- HID lights
I think more car makers can build custom cars and deliver them quite easily.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 22 Oct 12 at 20:14
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I think you'll find that a lot of the no cost options shown n the MB configurator require the selection of other cost options if you actually want them. Fr example on the C Class estate configurator an electric passenger seat with memory costs £0 on a 350CDI. Choosing it requires that you also select the memory package, cost £1,095!
The same is true of most of the new n the E Class configurator too. The only £0 option I can think of that doesn't require any thing else to be selected is the de-badge option...
Last edited by: PeterS on Sun 21 Oct 12 at 18:40
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p.s. Robbie, this in now way is meant to belittle the CR-V.
I had a CR-V II and it was a fantastic car.
One of the reasons for Japanese reliability is the lack of variability through the construction process.
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Are all the new UK market CR-Vs built in Swindon?
Recently I have seen several transporters loaded with new CR-Vs coming north out of Southampton.
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>> Are all the new UK market CR-Vs built in Swindon?
>>
>> Recently I have seen several transporters loaded with new CR-Vs coming north out of Southampton.
They do make CRVs in Swindon, thats not to say all the ones you buy here are made there.
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A couple of years ago I believe there was a large number of CRVs destined for Russia that never set sail from Southampton.
Maybe was those ones?
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I've bought two that were built in Swindon and had been to Cyprus and back.
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Doh...bought mine in Jan 2010 so had it 31 months now, not 21.
Struggling to think of a sensible replacement. Two friends of mine have Boxsters which have been nothing but trouble, and would look even dafter than mine towing a trailer with a mixer and ladder rack.
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Even if a lot of components are just in time, you have to specify the options that you require, so Honda would have plenty of time to source the components required. Has nothing to do with it costing them money to give 17" wheels as a no cost option.
With regard to the number of options on other makes, Honda offer such a high specification on their models as standard it reduces the number of options available. For instance, the EX variant has a premium sound system with a sub woofer and DAB radio; reversing camera; front and rear parking sensors; HDD sat nav with multi language voice recognition; power tailgate; smart keyless entry and start; heated front seats; driver seat power adjust; driver seat memory; cruise control; rain sensing auto wipers; dusk sensing auto lights; auto dimming rear view mirror; power folding door mirrors, and a lot more. Most of these are options, and cost extra on the likes of Mercedes and BMW.
I was costing an E class, and with all of the above standard on the CR-V, it would have cost over £40,000. Drive-The-Deal could supply a 200d E class for £28,000 but with nothing like the specification of the CR-V EX.
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>> Even if a lot of components are just in time, you have to specify the
>> options that you require,
You cant specify all the options you require, If you could we wouldn't be having this discussion would we.
And you still haven't come up with an alternate logical reason.
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>> You cant specify all the options you require, If you could we wouldn't be having
>> this discussion would we.
>>
>> And you still haven't come up with an alternate logical reason.
Of course you can when it comes to wheel size. Do you think they come without wheels and the dealer fits them? I can specify a different style of 18" wheel as well as two different styles of 19" wheels. These are all options, and the lower spec models have 17" alloys which could easily be fitted to any model.
Have you not understood that you specify what model you require and it is produced as you have ordered. No reason whatsoever why 17" wheels could not be a no cost option. Your reasoning is faulty.
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>> Have you not understood that you specify what model you require and it is produced
>> as you have ordered.
have you not understood that you purchase what groups of extras the maker is prepared to offer you NOT you own personal individual specification.
You really think you can pick and choose what parts from what model ranges you want? As I said, clearly you cant otherwise you would not be moaning about it would you.
No reason whatsoever why 17" wheels could not be a no
>> cost option. Your reasoning is faulty.
So why is Honda not doing it then? you still haven't answered that question, and it seems nor are you going to.
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You really don't see the point do you, and you merely obfuscate in an attempt to never be proved wrong or accept criticism.
I 'phoned Honda this morning and was told that I could have 17" wheels fitted, no problem, but they are not able to change the VED rate as that is fixed, by the powers that be, for the SR and EX grades.
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And you really dont see the point either do you, despite everyone on here telling you why you can not pick and choose all the exact options you want for any model and trim range and why Honda choose the wheel sizes they Ok you can not take my word for it, but clearly you are stubborn enough to think you are right over everyone else in this thread refusing to accept all the reasons put forward by everyone else.
And it was you that started with all the strop.
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"Have you not understood that you specify what model you require and it is produced as you have ordered."
No you don't, you're not buying an Overfinch Range Rover!
You choose from a range of standard builds - the choice of which varies between manufacturers - and you get one as soon as the choice you ordered goes down the line. Hence more popular, i.e. more frequently built, variants have shorter lead times.
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>>With regard to the number of options on other makes, Honda offer such a high specification on their models as standard it reduces the number of options available.
As I said - built to order not built to spec.
You choose your model designation.
Then you can have a couple of non-central components added to give it the feeling of personalisation. Some of the features you mention as being 'spec-able' are actually combined in packages and not avaialable individually.
If you want 17" wheels the dealer will happily supply them - if you're lucky he might swap the 18s with a lower spec model to sell the lower spec at a premium.
As you say, as it's not from the factory, you are stuck with the VED of the ex-factory car.
When I bought my Suzuki Swift Sport (made in Hungary) the dealer told me 1000 were earmarked for the UK this year, with a couple of hundred in each colour. No factory options at all.
It still took 12 weeks to be delivered because (a) it's a new model and stocks were low, and (b) manufacturers don't stockpile loads of cars - they vary output depending upon demand much more than in the past.
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>>You haven't answered my question. Why would it cost more to fit 17" wheels as a no cost option?
A number of reasons;
1) A manufacturer (assembler) orders and plans the parts they want some distance into the future. There is a cost in a change to standard in the ageing of the planned parts which remain in stock, the earlier acquisition of the non-standard parts, and the change in consumption rates of both.
2) Every vehicle sold is an advertisement on the street. They would prefer you bought the wheels that looked best, because that is what will attract people, even if the people attracted do not want those wheels. This reduces the cost of additional advertising and increases the efficacy of existing advertising.
3) Anything exceptional endangers reliability and dependability. They must remember to stop the car in progress, remember to fit the altered spec wheels, remember to ship it to the right place at the right time, etc. etc. To ensure that works takes additional cost outside the provision of a standard product to a standard customer. That needs covering somewhere.
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It depends on what you mean by the "wheels that look the best." It is a matter of taste, and I don't like wheels that look like an elastic band, yet lots of people put such low profile tyres on their cars.
The alloy wheels on the lower spec cars are virtually indistinguishable from the standard 18" alloy wheel. No reason why they would not be available for other variants.
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They are not are they. Tell you what you tell us why not.
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It's really quite easy these days to mix specs on the production line, it's just parameters and logistics for which the systems are there. They do it anyway. I'd be amazed if there wasn't an ES followed by an EX or whatever, and vice versa, on the line today.
What Honda don't do in terms of what they offer is for the simple reason that they choose not to. Just marketing. At which, in my opinion, they aren't very sophisticated.
Their approach will make it easier for dealers to sell from stock, which might be a factor.
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>>
>> What Honda don't do in terms of what they offer is for the simple reason
>> that they choose not to. Just marketing. At which, in my opinion, they aren't very
>> sophisticated.
>>
I think this is a long standing policy of Honda's - possibly dating back to when more of their cars had to be shipped from Japan with associated longer lead times ? Overseas we see something similar with VWs: in Australia there are far fewer factory options available and in Hong Kong there are no factory options (although the basic car is supplied with a much higher spec). A factor of lead times and volumes I suspect ?
I inquired about a previous model Accord CTDi EX Touring/Estate without leather trim a few (maybe 5 or 6) years ago after being (very) impressed with a 48 hour test drive which my company car scheme provided. I was told that I could neither order an EX without Leather or a Sport (IIRC) with the auto lights / wipers / mirror and sunroof offered on the higher spec EX. Basically it was 'take it or leave it'. I left it, Honda's loss - although I regretted the A4 B7 Avant I ordered instead...
Last edited by: idle_chatterer on Mon 22 Oct 12 at 01:14
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It is not simply production. It causes other logistic issues as well - essentially it means that a particular vehicle must be delivered to a particular dealer for a particular customer. This does not combine well with bulk storage and shipping, stockpiles, flexible shipping or call offs.
And whilst it is easy to manipulate an assembly line, it is not free. The additional cost of being flexible on one vehicle may not be high, but to be flexible on one, one must be flexible on all, and for that the cost *is* high. In machinery, system and control as well as manpower and stock control.
Equally it is not in the manufacturer's interest to allow the removal of unwanted extras; that simply decreases part throughput and revenue. For them it is far better to stick a bunch of less wanted extras in with a "must have" and invoice for all.
Each manufacturer chooses the level of choice granularity they wish to offer and build their processes and pricing around that.
Personally I would never buy a BTO, I'd make sure I was buying something which was already in stock somewhere and compensate any additional or missing extras with an extracted discount.
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>>
>> Personally I would never buy a BTO, I'd make sure I was buying something which
>> was already in stock somewhere and compensate any additional or missing extras with an >> extracted discount.
>>
But you end up with 'defacto standard options' on certain cars e.g. my E91 330d Touring was a manual (chosen for low CO2 and fabulous to drive) but worth much less than it's auto brethren when used. Similarly that particular car was expected to have leather trim.
Then manufacturers 'drop' features when they update models - in the current A4 a glovebox light became an optional extra or on the current Ford Mondeo Estate (in the UK) where roof rails are an optional extra now or Skoda where most Octavias don't have ESP / curtain airbags unlike their VW and Seat brethren - so you might want to spec them when 'upgrading' perhaps ? No discount would persuade me into a car lacking safety features.....
Other options are to personal taste of course, I've never understood why anyone would pay extra for integrated satnav or custom interior/exterior colours which will add little to the value of the car but can cost thousands when purchased.
Last edited by: idle_chatterer on Mon 22 Oct 12 at 05:08
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>> It's really quite easy these days to mix specs on the production line, it's just parameters and logistics for which the systems are there. They do it anyway. I'd be amazed if there wasn't an ES followed by an EX or whatever, and vice versa, on the line today.
>
Yes, you are correct that different spec's follow each other on the production line.
But, to say its easy to mix spec's is wrong.
Today, vehicles are sold on emissions, economy, etc, which makes major one off spec changes a nightmare.
OK, a lower spec vehicle may wear smaller wheels, but the extra trim, and toys weigh something......
To counter act the weight penalty, and keep within the legal specs, may require the use of larger diameter wheels, the higher spec model may also use a different overall gear ratio.
To make what appears to be minor modifications, on the production line, can have major knock on effects - perhaps even having to resubmit that 'new' spec for all manner of tests, before being homologated for use on the public roads.....
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I 'phoned Honda this morning and I can have 17" wheels, no problem, but the VED rate remains the same as for the 18" wheels. As the fuel consumption is not that much more I'll stick with the 18".
I just hope the Government doesn't mess around with the rates again and penalise cars with higher emissions.
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As an aside, I had a Qashqai with 17" wheels and my wife has now got one with 16" wheels. I can't honestly feel any noticeable difference in how they handle but there's a huge difference in the cost of replacement tyres. The 16" ones are 2/3 of the price of the 17".
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Yes I was staggered by the price difference between 16" and 17" wheels on my old C-Max. It's a hidden cost of appearing fashionable.
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>> Yes I was staggered by the price difference between 16" and 17" wheels on my
>> old C-Max. It's a hidden cost of appearing fashionable.
>>
You may find the 17" say 225 x 60 is expensive as few cars have them... as a result only 2/3 tyre manufacturers make that size....limited competition = higher unit price.
On the 16" wheel the 225 x 65 (say) is used on a much bigger number of car makes and models......lots of manufacturers looking for a market share of a popular car = keener prices.
Question - why do we need hundreds of different sizes of tyres?
Same with batteries - surely a handful of physical sizes and capacities would cover most cars instead of the current case of dozens of sizes, range of capacities with different terminals.
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There are 2 recommended sizes of tyre for my 17" wheels on my Vectra.
215/50/17 & 225/45/17
The latter is cheaper as it's a more common size. They come as standard with the 215/50/17 but most people in the know change to the 225/45/17 size when it comes to renewal time. There are one or two who refuse to change to the cheaper size however as they think the 6mm reduction in sidewall radius increases the gap between wheelarch and tyre too much.
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I've always been puzzled by the "fill the wheelarches" fad, especially as the rolling radius of the whole wheel set is essentially identical. Unless extreme wheel sizes, non-standard, after market kit, is used. Assuming speedo accuracy (and insurance issues?) is maintained, optical illusion?
Last edited by: NIL on Mon 22 Oct 12 at 10:54
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I think, or at least have to admit in my case anyway, that it's also an age thing. I can remember being very concerned by some trivial matters automotive which simply do not occur to me now. Different priorities combined with a dose of age related cynicism and so on I expect.
:-)
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>>
>> I just hope the Government doesn't mess around with the rates again and penalise cars
>> with higher emissions.
>>
You have spent £30,000 in round figures - keep it 3 years and you will have lost £15,000 +/-in depreciation.
That is £100 per week in depreciation and you are worried about your £250 RFL PER YEAR GOING UP!
Cancel the car and buy a season ticket for the bus/train or buy a bike (no RFL on push bikes!)
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>> You have spent £30,000 in round figures - keep it 3 years and you will
>> have lost £15,000 +/-in depreciation.
>>
>> That is £100 per week in depreciation and you are worried about your £250 RFL
>> PER YEAR GOING UP!
>>
>> Cancel the car and buy a season ticket for the bus/train or buy a bike
>> (no RFL on push bikes!)
It's actually £170 per year, but I resent HMG squeezing the motorist. According to reports, the tax take on motorists has dropped because manufacturers are producing cars with low emissions and more fuel efficient engines, combined with motorists using their cars less.
The Government will need to claw this back, and no doubt will gerrymander VED.
Anyway, why the sarcastic comment about cancelling the car? Aren't we allowed to have our little foibles?
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>>The Government will need to claw this back, and no doubt will gerrymander VED.
I do not mind paying some of the road tax, some of the income tax, some of the VAT as this money is used and abused by government.
I was a Higher Rate taxpayer most of my working life and got very little back in any benefits...........
However prior to my earning a good salary....
My wife & I were given a free University Education and a grant as our parents were not loaded.
Later
My 3 x sons got a free University education (no grants), as did their wives.
In the last 2.5 years the NHS has spent £100K+++ on me - operation, chemo and monitoring thereafter.
My local chip shop is owned by an American - his US based mother has cancer and so far they still own their own home....JUST. Insurance paid some but a lot was not covered..........
USA has cheap fuel but expensive health!
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Well, you have had your money's worth, so it ill becomes you to object to paying something.
Whilst I was fortunate enough to have spent seven years at university at taxpayers' expense, and for the last twenty odd years of work I paid tax at the higher rate, and I have never been a burden on the State, I still pay a lot in income tax, together with the rest of hidden taxes such as VAT, council tax and other charges, so I pay my fair share, and I always have done. I don't object to paying my way, but it is becoming past a joke when HMG attempt to screw us for every last penny.
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Even at £500pa the MVL duty would be a tenner a week, price of two bottles of supermarket plonk.
Compared with fuel and, for those buying new(ish) depreciation, it's a tiny fraction of car ownership costs.
And on the wheels question thae answer is 'cos they don't.
I'd want them too though. God only knows why anybody wants low profile tyres on a vehicle with leanings towrds being an SUV but the market's a fickle place.
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>> And on the wheels question thae answer is 'cos they don't.
>>
>> I'd want them too though. God only knows why anybody wants low profile tyres on
>> a vehicle with leanings towrds being an SUV but the market's a fickle place.
Perhaps you never read a previous post, but Honda do, as I found out this morning.
In any case, I pay sufficient to the Government, but perhaps you don't mind the odd £500 per annum VED. Not many people like you around.
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I didn't say I'd welcome or even not mind £500 VED - more than double what's due on my pre -emission bands Xantia. My point was it's a tiny part of running costs. If I was buying new I wouldn't let £100 quid a year difference dictate my choice of engine.
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>> I didn't say I'd welcome or even not mind £500 VED - more than double
>> what's due on my pre -emission bands Xantia. My point was it's a tiny part
>> of running costs. If I was buying new I wouldn't let £100 quid a year
>> difference dictate my choice of engine.
>>
Agreed : see my comments on the Jazz vs Yaris hybrid running costs.
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Honda CR-V III - New Motor - Honda CR-V - Manatee
