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I know what it does. But what's it for?
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It adds another line in the brochure for "features"
It has done nothing since the introduction of electronic ignition and rev limiters.
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Same as the engine temperature gauge.
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>> Same as the engine temperature gauge.
Ah, a good one of those does have a valid use.
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As does a rev counter if you're driving like a flange.
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>>As does a rev counter if you're driving like a flange.
When driving like a nutter, which I haven't done in many years, I wouldn't have time to look at a rev counter. In any case, surely one is driving according to how the engine feels, not what revs its doing.
When driving like a grown up, who gets anywhere near the red line anyway?
And when driving an automatic, it truly doesn't matter.
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Most of my recent cars, mundane or otherwse has had one - even the £200.00 Fiesta has one - Pointless in the Beemer which has a mimsing warning light - so unlikely it is to glow, there is no reference to it in the manual and to my utmost embarrassment I had to ask here about it.
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That's why Rollers don't have rev counters.
In a turbo-petrol hitting the limiter isn't regarded as terribly clever, and will slow progress compared to changing gear 100rpm lower.
My Swift Sport limiter is bang on 7000rpm (redline 7200 which makes little sense) - I know to change at 6800-6900 if I'm being a flange.
I can manage this fairly accurately by engine note now so I could live without it.
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>> As does a rev counter if you're driving like a flange.
No it dont, you have ears, you don't have a finger in the water tho.
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>> >> As does a rev counter if you're driving like a flange.
>>
>> No it dont, you have ears, you don't have a finger in the water tho.
So the answer to the question is...
Deaf people.
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Or flanges who listen to the stereo.
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It's an instrument like any other. You can look at it agape and wonder what it's for, or you can use its information to build up an understanding of what's going on.
Same with oil pressure gauges, ammeters, proper temperature gauges and so on. Lights are rubbish and don't cut the mustard.
However one can quite understand why the modern failsafe car user doesn't want to bother his or her pretty little head with all that stuff. That's for nerds with dirt under their fingernails innit?
Flanges eh? Not bad Lygonos, not bad...
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>> However one can quite understand why the modern failsafe car user doesn't want to bother
>> his or her pretty little head with all that stuff.
For Pat: www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEEWWTV8Xbg
:)
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>>For Pat: www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEEWWTV8Xbg
:)<<
Apparently the BBC have blocked this video Focusless, was it really that bad? ;)
Pat
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>> >>For Pat: www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEEWWTV8Xbg
>> :)<<
>>
>> Apparently the BBC have blocked this video Focusless, was it really that bad? ;)
Err... strange, it was just a piece on what excellent drivers women are...
Try this, quick, before the BBC spot it: www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK-SR9sGX0U
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>>what excellent drivers women are...<<
Errrr...now that wasn't strictly true, now was it? ;)
Just for the record I love the rev counter and rely on it far more than the speedometer.
It tells me just how hard worked the engine is feeling at any given time!
Pat
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I'd challenge anyone to drive the Berlingo like a flange, still less to get anything out of the experience. The tacho is however a useful supplement to the ear in terms of keeping the blighter in its torque band.
Use the gears to keep the revs between 1700 and 3000 whatever the speed (unless you really want to thrash it at 80)
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>>No it dont, you have ears, you don't have a finger in the water tho.
And a gauge of any accuracy is required when an LED or yet another code for the Engine Warning light would suffice?
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>> >>No it dont, you have ears, you don't have a finger in the water tho.
>>
>>
>> And a gauge of any accuracy is required when an LED or yet another code
>> for the Engine Warning light would suffice?
>
It doesn't tho. If a temperature gauge accurately reflects the water temperature, it can be a wonderful guide to the state of the engine or something abnormal...
Slower to warm up? faster to warm up, running slightly below normal, or slightly above, varies in town, varies on the motorway.. Excellent advance warning of issues.
By the time a warning light or code comes up you are toast.
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My car has a rev counter and no red line. Pointless.
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Agree with Zero. My Pug 104 lacked a temperature gauge. The warning light coincided with it lunching the CHG. Twice.
Both times the root cause was corrosion on the rad fan's earth connection.
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I rapidly diagnosed a partially stuck open thermostat on one of my cars with a real temperature gauge. I would have no chance with the more recent ones with an ECU driven "Cold, Normal, Hot" one.
My Ceed has a rev counter and an idiot display to tell you which gear you should be in, overkill or what?
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 6 Dec 12 at 20:22
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Turbo Diesels don't sound like they used to lorries or cars, at one time you could drive them efficiently on the sound the turbo made.
At work i use the rev counter continually.
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No temp gauge on the Volvo, however, the C5 had a separate oil and water gauge.
IIRC our old Picasso had no rev counter
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I've added one to my vintage car - I need feedback on the engine revs as I'm deaf and the gearchange is very non syncromesh.
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Acts as a surrogate speedo on the Xantia, as the real speedo has a mind of its own....
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It helps if you're one of nature's manual drivers who finds himself in an automatic. The car would probably prefer me not to worry about which gear it's in, but I like to know. It helps me to drive around the modern auto's tendency to change up too soon and to settle to unfeasibly low engine speeds, especially in town.
Handy, too, when getting to know a new car and you want to know when the turbo wakes up and when it's given you all you're going to get. And when you have an older car and want to describe a problem to a mechanic: '2,000 rpm' is much more informative than 'about 45 in fourth'.
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Both the Nissan and the Suzuki have rev counters...never look at them, no point, both being autos. Come to think, the bike has one as well, it's an auto too so equally ignored.
I do use the temp gauge on the bike and the Vitara, particularly when towing with the latter.
The Jowett has a big tick tock matching the speedo in size and appearence. Supplemented by gauges for oil pressure, water temp, amps and fuel.
Ted
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The Forum brains trust don't seem to rate rev counters much by the looks of it.
OTOH, Honda give the rev counter pride of place on the Civic, and maybe other models in their range. A mate has one with automatic transmission and thinks that its pointless!
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>> Handy, too, when getting to know a new car and you want to know when
>> the turbo wakes up and when it's given you all you're going to get. And
>> when you have an older car and want to describe a problem to a mechanic:
>> '2,000 rpm' is much more informative than 'about 45 in fourth'.
I like to know a cars top gear cruising speed. Mph per 1000 rpm is useful to know, although it depends on the engine. My bmw was silky at high revs. The avensis is 3000 rpm at 70 and is a bit boomy.
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>> I've added one to my vintage car
I hope it's an in-period Jaeger job with jerky flickering needle Slidingpillar?
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>>I hope it's an in-period Jaeger job with jerky flickering needle
Nope, an American one designed for a light aircraft. Not many instrument manufacturers these days make tachos for engines with magnetos, and even the one that made mine failed to comprehend the fact a magneto generates alternating positive and negative going pulses.
You I think are referring to a chronometric tacho (there are speedos that also work like this). Very pretty, but a bit hopeless as they only give the speed that was recorded, so lag real time.
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>> I rapidly diagnosed a partially stuck open thermostat on one of my cars with a
>> real temperature gauge. I would have no chance with the more recent ones with an
>> ECU driven "Cold, Normal, Hot" one.
>>
>> My Ceed has a rev counter and an idiot display to tell you which gear
>> you should be in, overkill or what?
>>
Only way on some cars you can tell if the engine's running or stopped they're so quiet (especially with start/stop technology). Although I readily admit that a small light could do the job equally well.
If I didn't have one I'd feel ripped off.
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They're a complete waste of space as far as I'm concerned. As a low mileage driver I would much prefer some visual indication of whether or not my battery needs charging, instead of a totally unnecessary and unused rev counter.
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>> As a low mileage
>> driver I would much prefer some visual indication of whether or not my battery needs
>> charging,
I like rev counters as it happens, but I think the battery monitor would be a great idea.
My son has exactly this problem, driving 2 miles each way to work (he should cycle). His battery died this week probably as a result of freezing temperatures when it was in a low state of charge.
I suspect the reason monitors aren't used is that when you need them, they aren't especially accurate, or at least the ones I have used on boats aren't. They have to be told the battery capacity (and they don't know when it's changed, it reduces over time) and they measure the current in and out to tell you what remains. They have to aim off though for charging efficiency, since 1Ah in is only 0.8-0.9 Ah out and that is an approximation. For as long as the battery is not fully charged, the reading becomes progressively less accurate. It resets when the battery is fully charged, but the declining battery capacity catches them out in the end.
They also tempt the users to run the batteries down too far. Lead acid batteries that cycle between 50%-100% of full charge will last far longer than batteries that are repeatedly run down to 20%. Most car batteries, most of the time, will operate 90% full or more which is why they last so long.
The best approach for my son and people like him would be to use a CTEK charger every other night with the plug in lead fitted. Not as easy if you use street parking,
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They look nice, a matching complement to the speedometer.
A useful guide to tell you the engine is still running, when you pull up at a junction with a cold engine and perhaps needed a bit more choke.
With a powerful high-torque engine it's a good guide to which gear you are in. I was once driving a Triumph Stag up a hill thinking I was in second, but had top by mistake. It pulled just as well, but I'd have preferred not to strain it. If I'd thought of it a glance at the tacho would have told me it was only doing 1000 rpm not 3000.
Useful for setting idling speed.
Tells you something in the intake is sticking if it is sluggish to fall to idling speed.
I've no idea what a post 1980 car uses one for. I thought when the car went wrong you just threw it out and bought another one?
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>>Useful for setting idling speed.
Also useful for cruising speed!
Today is the first day I have been cruising on the Mways in the X Type with the temperature below 4 degrees C.
I now find I have a useful back up to my cruise control.
At an indicated 70mph the rev counter disects the big orange snowflake in its window. It is very easy to see with nothing to read and I stay within the legal NSL.
What a clever added feature :-)))
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>> They're a complete waste of space as far as I'm concerned. As a low mileage
>> driver I would much prefer some visual indication of whether or not my battery needs
>> charging, instead of a totally unnecessary and unused rev counter.
No problem for you surely, you have a garage full of perfectly good ones you have rejected....
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>> No problem for you surely, you have a garage full of perfectly good ones you
>> have rejected....
>>
How very dare you. I'm deeply offended by your comment and am unsure at this stage whether to report you to the mods, or give you a scowly face.
Be very afraid!
;)
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>> >> No problem for you surely, you have a garage full of perfectly good ones
>> you
>> >> have rejected....
>> >>
>>
>> How very dare you. I'm deeply offended by your comment and am unsure at this
>> stage whether to report you to the mods, or give you a scowly face.
>>
>> Be very afraid!
>> ;)
You cad sir! you gave me a scowly face! The name of your second please.
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>> Be very afraid!
>> ;)
>>
>> You cad sir! you gave me a scowly face!
>>
Not me, Gov.
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>> >> You cad sir! you gave me a scowly face!
>> >>
>>
>> Not me, Gov.
>>
Might the Lodger have given you another for good measure?
;)
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>> They're a complete waste of space as far as I'm concerned. As a low mileage
>> driver I would much prefer some visual indication of whether or not my battery needs
>> charging, instead of a totally unnecessary and unused rev counter.
>>
I sometimes use my revcounter but ignore the gearchange display. I could live without a revcounter but would prefer not to.
As for batteries, our car is used daily for short journeys, usually less than 30 miles. I charge the battery most weekends and it takes several hours on a smart charger at 5 amps to reach the float stage. I suspect most car batteries are at about 80% charged most of the time.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 7 Dec 12 at 08:54
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I like a rev counter... can't think of the last car that didn't have one. As said above helps to confirm the engine is still running in odd circumstances and on modern diesels with their more petrol-like driving character it does help not straying over the red line in lower gears.
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It's a visual enhancement, like the interior trim colours, for those who like a visually flashy car. I personally would be satisfied if the rev counter was deleted and the interior trim was in random and nondescript colours.
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..which it presumably is after you've slithered about on the seats for nine years.
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Rev counter serves following purposes
* It is an indication of when you should change gears [although you can judget that from engine sound]
* You can rev up engine to quite high RPM and have fun (it is indeed fun, try revving at 5000 RPM in 2nd gear]. Without a rev counter you won't know when you are approaching red line.
* It shows whether you have very high or very low idling speed.
* In automatics, you can see it to realize when car shifts gear (a good auto will not let you feel any jerk while shifting and you may not always detect subtle change in engine sound]
Is rev counter absolutely essential? - No, may cars don't have it.
Temperature gauge
* Helps you to see if engine is overheating. Without temp gauge, overheating warning light will light at pre-determined high temperature point. While with temp gauge, you can see it gradually rising over halfway mark and thus can act quicker to prevent overheating.
* All cars take few minutes to reach optimum temperature. Temp gauge shows this via needle hovering around half way mark. One should not thrash engine before this.
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>> * Helps you to see if engine is overheating. Without temp gauge, overheating warning light will light at pre-determined high temperature point. While with temp gauge, you can see it gradually rising over halfway mark and thus can act quicker to prevent overheating.
>>
I don't think it works like that on all cars. Some gauges are set to only move when it moves out of a set range. So when it moves it might be a bit late.
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>>It's an instrument like any other. You can look at it agape and wonder what it's for, or you can use its information to build up an understanding of what's going on.
Same with oil pressure gauges, ammeters, proper temperature gauges and so on. Lights are rubbish and don't cut the mustard.
However one can quite understand why the modern failsafe car user doesn't want to bother his or her pretty little head with all that stuff. That's for nerds with dirt under their fingernails innit? <<
Couldn't have put it better myself. I prefer to know - and perhaps understand - what's going on. It's no wonder you hear about engine blow-ups when people are encouraged not to get involved with what's happening under the bonnet, to the extent where they don't bother to check any levels from time to time.
What's a 'flange' anyway (apart from the obvious)?
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I use it for a 'party trick' in the KIA, for the benefit of passengers:
Pull away in second and accelerate, seamlessly, all the way to over 7K RPM.
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>> Couldn't have put it better myself. I prefer to know - and perhaps understand -
>> what's going on. It's no wonder you hear about engine blow-ups when people are encouraged
>> not to get involved with what's happening under the bonnet, to the extent where they
>> don't bother to check any levels from time to time.
Phone call from my sister some years back:
Her: The car's stopped working.
Me: What happened?
Her: I don't know. Some red lights came on and a few miles later the engine stopped.
Me: Uh oh. Which lights?
Her: A little picture of an oil can and a big red one saying "STOP".
Me: So why didn't you stop?
Her: I didn't think it was important.
Might have more success with a modern car where it can say "STOP NOW" on the little screen, but frankly with most people the only successful way would be for the computer to cut power to the engine in these situations.
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Good post, movilog, but I'd like to clarify one point.
>> * In automatics, you can see it to realize when car shifts gear (a good
>> auto will not let you feel any jerk while shifting and you may not always
>> detect subtle change in engine sound]
>>
Yes, this is true on conventional automatics. However on a CVT box it merely jumps to a new level of revs and holds it there. Then it seamlessly changes the gear ratios until it reaches the speed that it thinks you want. Then it drops back to cruising revs again. The (in)famous"rubber band effect". It feels a bit odd, but it is apparently very efficient.
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I've got a gear change indicator. Thats a complete waste of time - it trys to tell you to change up to early so you drop out of the turbo range, if fact it encourages you to change up just as the turbo spools up.
It also makes no allowance for hills. I guess its just a very simple software design that says indicate at X RPM
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I thought that the BMW gear change indicator was more sophisticated than that - or am I getting you confused with someone else?
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Sounds like my KIA gear change indicator, that is not very clever. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 7 Dec 12 at 18:49
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>> I thought that the BMW gear change indicator was more sophisticated than that - or
>> am I getting you confused with someone else?
>>
Yep, its a Volvo V60
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As kids we thought a Rev counter was for totting up passing vicars. The gear change indicator in my 3 series is useful, you can barely hear the slumbering beast roar under 3000 revs. Rev counter is largely pointless IMO.
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I would much rather have a rev counter - because I use it and my engine was designed to use high revs intelligently - in a sensibly laid out fascia than a group of instruments and warning lights with those stupid, tacky, chrome-plated plastic rings around them.
I suppose in diesel cars a rev counter is pretty pointless.
Last edited by: Mike Hannon on Sat 8 Dec 12 at 11:08
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Quite right Mike - not had a drive of the new 3 Series but from the passenger seat they seem to have evolved them very nicely including the re-appearance of the temp. gauge !
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>> I suppose in diesel cars a rev counter is pretty pointless.
>>
Not in mine. It will rev to 4400 but has lost interest well before then and is far better driven between 1500-2300 in normal use. Quite a narrow band and a lot of gear changing with 6 gears. Easy to check I'm in the right band for a pick up from a hazard - the engine note is barely audible on a light throttle or overrun.
Last edited by: Manatee on Sat 8 Dec 12 at 11:20
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Yes, sorry about that. I forgot what it's like to drive a six-speed diesel because it's been a longish time since I did.
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I really don't think they have any worthwhile use in a car, especially autos, we've just got used to them being there and would feel cheated if they replaced it with something else.
Equally, the temp gauge in some cars, like BMW, aren't gauges at all. They are simple ecu controlled "goldilocks" indicators with no linear reference to the actual coolant temperature.
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It's just so nice to have a dashboard filled with dials, even if you haven't got a clue what half of them are.
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I discovered a lap timer and a choice of indicator clicks the other day when I was trying to find the tone controls for the audio.
And yesterday I became aware that the car has hill hold. They told me it had when I bought it, but I couldn't divine it working so I decided it hadn't.
Yesterday I was waiting at some lights on a hump backed bridge, expecting them to change anytime, in first gear with clutch down and foot on brake. I decided to roll back a bit so released the brake, but the car stayed put. I waited to see what happened and 2 seconds later it released abruptly and I gave a nasty fright to a bloke who had by then pulled up behind.
I think I'll ignore it. Seems more dangerous than helpful - if you release the brake to set off, then pause for some reason, it could catch you out.
Never noticed before as I always heel and toe or use the handbrake. Funny thing was, it seemed not to keep the brakes on, as I imagined it should - they released and then immediately clamped on again at the first bit of backwards movement. I think you have to release the brake pedal completely to make it operate, which is why I couldn't find it before.
At least it doesn't have the electric handbrake!
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My car has "Hill start assist" and I don't like it. It works on a tilt switch and you can never be sure if the slope has enough gradient to activate it. It is just another gadget looking for a problem to solve.
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Agreed ON - my 3 series has it.
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>> Quite a narrow band and
>> a lot of gear changing ..............
Yet another reason for me not to buy a diesel.
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You are all missing a trick. Rev counters are for playing with. With a CVT transmission the engine revs are not necessarily directly linked to road speed. This allows you to have:
Temp gauge needle vertical
Rev counter vertical at 4000 rpm
Speedo vertical at 80 mph
Petrol gauge vertical as the tank is half full
And the icing on the cake, the miles travelled since the last fill exactly equals the forecast mile left in tank.
Only done it once.
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You're quite right about the CVT thing - using the Rev counter as a toy on the Majesty keeps me sane !
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...Only done it once.
Did coins cascade from the not-quite-big-enough-to-be-useful compartment in front of the gear lever?
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In all the time this forum has been going, I think this thread has done more than any other to tell me who the 'real' drivers are;)
Pat
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>> In all the time this forum has been going, I think this thread has done
>> more than any other to tell me who the 'real' drivers are;)
Do you mean real as opposed to fake/counterfeit drivers?
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I mean drivers and screwdrivers L'es;)
Pat
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I've got a 'wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding' 1.3 diesel Astra and rely heavily on the rev counter. I guess I rely on it almost as much as the speedo.
I've had a proper temperature gauge on previous cars and regret that the Astra doesn't have one. With a gauge, you can sense that something is going awry as soon as the needle shifts from the norm whereas a warning light is only on/off, giving no signal of the first movement in any change.
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>> I've got a 'wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding' 1.3 diesel Astra and
>> rely heavily on the rev counter. I guess I rely on it almost as much
>> as the speedo.
Well you would, its probably the only dial that moves upwards.
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>> I've got a 'wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding' 1.3 diesel Astra and
>> rely heavily on the rev counter. I guess I rely on it almost as much
>> as the speedo.
>>
>> I've had a proper temperature gauge on previous cars and regret that the Astra doesn't
>> have one. With a gauge, you can sense that something is going awry as soon
>> as the needle shifts from the norm whereas a warning light is only on/off, giving
>> no signal of the first movement in any change.
>>
That's odd, I have a 'Just about pull the skin off a rice pudding' 1.4 petrol and that has a temp gauge. Saved my bacon last year when the thermostat stuck closed.
No rev counter though.
Last edited by: Robin Regal on Sun 9 Dec 12 at 10:20
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Sadly, my wife didn't really appreciate the fun. Would have loved a photo, though.
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>> Sadly, my wife didn't really appreciate the fun. Would have loved a photo, though.
They don't understand, do they, bless 'em.
I once went through the 99,999 with SWMBO in the passenger seat. 'what happens after?' she asked and almost believed me when I told her the engine self destructs.
We were looking at some photo's I took this morning. 'Where were you standing?'
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>> We were looking at some photo's I took this morning. 'Where were you standing?'
She was only trying work out what focal length lens you were using ;-)
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Tee hee. I have pictures of mine showing 111111 and 123456. I can remember exactly where I was for each of them too.
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Rev Counter. - Zero
