***** This thread is now closed, please CLICK HERE to go to Volume 13 *****
Top Gear chat.
Volume 11 is HERE:-
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 25 Feb 13 at 00:46
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Much the same as previous episodes. A few funny moments though.
A Bentley rally car, who'd have thought it? Good bit of driving from the rally driver.
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a bit of a curate's egg, as usual.
and expect more DailyComic-type rants about some of the comments.
Last edited by: Ian (Cape Town) on Mon 28 Jan 13 at 07:39
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Enjoyed it. The Huayra is desirable in a way that no Ferrari has been for years, IMHO. And the P-45 feature was very amusing.
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To be truthful, it was really a yawnfest but ever so slightly amusing in parts. I fast forwarded through the Zonda part i.e the Huawei car as I call it. Completely irrelevant and boring as you would expect.
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>> To be truthful, it was really a yawnfest but ever so slightly amusing in parts.
>> I fast forwarded through the Zonda part i.e the Huawei car as I call it.
>> Completely irrelevant and boring as you would expect.
Boring? no - no car that looks like that inside and out can be described as boring. Seeing someone skilled driving a fast car at the limi(or near to) is never boring either. If you are bored by both of those you are bored by cars completely.
Out of an hours screen time, there was about 15 minutes of worth.
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>> >> To be truthful, it was really a yawnfest but ever so slightly amusing in
>> parts.
If you are bored by both of those you are bored by
>> cars completely.
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>> Out of an hours screen time, there was about 15 minutes of worth.
>>
You are SO wrong on every level. I am fascinated and love my cars but draw the line at nonsene cars costing £800,000 and which are totally impractical. I would still rather see some run of the mill cars on this show but realise that I am in the minority with this view.
I surround myself with car mags and car brochures and dream about what I could afford and own but not, generally those shown on Top Gear and which have the guts torn out of them by a load of idiots.
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>> I fast forwarded through the Zonda part
That was one of the more interesting bits to watch.
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I was very interested in the Zonda but what a wasted opportunity having that berk Hammond doing it.
He's always come across to me as one of those all purpose presenters who bluffs a lot. At one point he said something like "Pagani hasn't used the fashionable twin plate clutch found on so many other cars that makes for faster changes, but uses a single plate clutch because it's lighter". I don't really know what he was getting at and I'm not sure he did either but if he meant that it doesn't use a dual clutch like some of the newer Ferraris then he didn't sound convincing. And all that cobblers about it taking 24 hours to carve the badge out of aluminium.
A couple of years ago I was at IIRC the racing car show at the NEC and spent 15 minutes being shown over the Noble M600 by their engineering manager; mainly peering into the engine bay. I got a real insight into the problems you have to solve to make a car like that and why the car ended up the way it did. I thought at the time how much more interesting Top Gear could be if the reviews had a bit more of that about them.
That Noble is pretty impressive too BTW. Pagani performance and about a quarter of the price.
Last edited by: Manatee on Mon 28 Jan 13 at 13:25
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>> At one point he said something like "Pagani hasn't used the fashionable twin
>> plate clutch found on so many other cars that makes for faster changes, but uses
>> a single plate clutch because it's lighter".
I think he said it was 100kg lighter!
At that stage I new he was bluffing.
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And I knew he was bluffing.
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I was going to speculate that 100kg might not be far off, but you're probably right. I'm surprised that the Getrag DCT that's probably in the 458 is only 120kg
www.getrag.de/en/253
and I can't see a 7 speed manual being much under 50kg without the clutch. But the Huayra had paddles too didn't it? Maybe that's just for relay/hydraulic actuation of the sequential box without any clutch operation racing style, rather than a single clutch automated manual, sounds unlikely but as we only got the Hammond explanation we're no wiser.
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How do you know it was completely irrelevant and boring, if you fast forwarded it?
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>> How do you know it was completely irrelevant and boring, if you fast forwarded it?
>>
Well the obvious does not require me to waste any more words trying to explain to you how this works.
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No, you need to explain your extraordinary powers in knowing what something is like when you haven't seen it?
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>> No, you need to explain your extraordinary powers in knowing what something is like when you haven't seen it?
>>
Seen one top gear?
Seen them all.
Same same same..... almost as boring as watching football.
No, I take that back, at least with football, there is a fair chance of someone getting punched, rather than just hoping JC gets one......
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>> Did you watch it?
>>
No.
Did someone finally take a swing at that mouthy muppet?
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>> The Huayra is desirable in a way that no Ferrari has been for
>> years, IMHO.
Well it ought to be for £800k! :)
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The P45 - Reg LG62 LYF
that plate seems to be registered to a yellow Ford Transit 125T 300
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Watched it all, enjoyed most of it, SIARPC was quite funny due to the conditions but this is usually the bit where I get up and put the kettle on unless the first 30 seconds conversation gets my attention.
Noticed on Twitter this morning, Bentley PR tweeting pictures of the car when it got returned to them, still caked in mud. Haven't heard if the car was specially prepared in any way, even maybe transparent protective wrap on it, who knows.
However, back to the same point that rears its head every year - this is one of the most profitable programs that BBC make and has a a huge cult following. Bentley were obviously happy to partake in that because even they realise that they have something to gain from it.
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>> Bentley were obviously happy to partake
But not in a previous episode and ended up using a Lada instead.
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If you mean the trip to Albania, that was a Zastava/Yugo.
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Well it looked like a Lada to me ;)
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I found the Zonda bit interesting from an engineering point of view, even if the car as a whole is totally irrelevant. I actually fell asleep in the Bentley bit, but the P45 woke me up!
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If you mean the Huayra then please share the engineering insights! Apologies if I missed a bit.
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I always fast forward star in reasonably priced car part.
Zonda part was interesting but in every episode they have something similar. It is more like how iPhone 6 is slightly better than iPhone 5.
The Bentley was boring. I can drive that Bentley in a rally and come last (compared to them coming only 2nd to last).
The P45 part was hilarious especially the scene at Dragons' Den. That's where I laughed the most.
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>> If you mean the Huayra then please share the engineering insights!
The gear stick, with exposed selector gubbins? That was cool :)
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A bit of a better effort this Sunday. I have to agree that the Aston Martin looked and sounded great.
I'm guessing the musical road would only work properly if you went at a certain speed?
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One of the better shows of late - no dicking about stuff, which is normally funny, but long-winded.
We don't have musical roads, but some of the longer stretches have rumblstrips to wake up drivers - brrrr brrrr brrr brrrr. I always thought they should be 'tuned' to 'shave and a haircut'.
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I am not too sure I would go for that colour on the Aston Martin. I laughed a bit at the super cars being seen off by the pick-up trucks, which had been seriously modded, obviously
Last edited by: Meldrew on Mon 4 Feb 13 at 08:12
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That Aston was gorgeous, but for noise, it had to be the Lexus.
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Glad to see moans about small fuel tanks. I dislike filling up so a decent sized tank is a plus for me. Unless I go past a bargain cheap filling station, most things are take from full to the smell.
Yes, fuel is heavy so costs in your tank, but then, my time also costs.
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>> it had to be the Lexus.
>> Glad to see moans about small fuel tanks.
Can't understand how they can class it as a grand tourer (GT car) if it only has a small fuel tank. How the hell can you go touring if you're forever having to stop to fill up again?
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It's apparently a 19 gallon (US) tank, and the (US) consumption is 12mpg, so...
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>> It's apparently a 19 gallon (US) tank, and the (US) consumption is 12mpg, so...
Which in a nutshell is why big, high-revving, high output naturally aspirated engines are a dying breed.
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But the Dodge Viper only has a 16 US gallon tank.... so that must have needed filling up just as often with a 8.2l engine!
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And the Vanquish has a 78 litre tank (20.61 US gallons). Official combined figures for economy is 19.6mpg. If we assume you did get 19.6mpg (UK gallon) then that's a range of about 336 miles. Not much better.
This is why a grand tourer needs to be a big diesel engined car... with at least 100 litres capacity.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 4 Feb 13 at 11:57
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There's not much point in being persnickittey over Top Gear "facts". The "amusing" thought was simply Clarkson having to stop every five minutes, whether true or not.
I could have done with more cocking about, not less. Bit dull I thought. Watched some of the older ones on Netflix last week, and things like the sailing cars over the channel, or the reinvention of the railways were good fun, as was the Robin Reliant Space Shuttle.
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>> There's not much point in being persnickittey over Top Gear "facts". The "amusing" thought was
>> I could have done with more cocking about, not less.
Please, not more! Watch CBeebies if you want to watch childish antics.
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Ah, nominative determinism! :)
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I'm sorry, but no car, never mind a Toyota, is worth £350,000. And as for it being a 'Grand Tourer', that surely implies effortless cross-continent travels in luxury, not stopping every 10 minutes to stand in the freezing cold/boiling hot on a scruffy petrol forecourt refilling a tiny fuel tank!
The fact that JC said it was the best car he's ever driven says it all to me!
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Yes it's all pretty subjective isn't it? I suppose it always will be though. I've mentioned before that, for example, I find it quite hard in the cold light of day to explain what might be better about my current E Class estate versus, say, a decent spec Mondeo estate. Of course one can point to minute details but if you're on the M6 at 10 O'clock at night after spending all day in the car do you really care about that stuff or do you just want whatever you're in to drive ok, be comfortable and be in danger of getting you home without breaking down? Ultimately once all those boxes have been ticked the rest is just a variously priced ball of chalk isn't it?
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Thing is, it's not, and never was a GT. It's a supercar. Or a "Supersports" according to Lexus.
Complaining about limited fuel range in a supercar is like complaining about not being able to fit a wardrobe in a supermini. Sure, it's factually correct, but it's irrelevant.
I am not remotely surprised that a 4.8 litre, 560 PS, 9000 RPM V10 in a 202 mph car only returns 12 mpg when thrashed, and that this empties the fuel tank rather quickly.
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Yeah true. I suppose it is a bit churlish to flag up practical shortcomings on such cars. No one actually "needs" any of them while contrarily plenty might "want" one. I do though wonder how minted/stupid/obsessed you'd have to be to regard multiple hundreds of thousands of pounds as a clever amount to spend on a car.
Maybe I'm getting old ( no, make that "almost certainly" ) but even if I'd won the Euro lottery on a good week or had spent a lifetime being paid squillions to kick a ball or something I'm really not sure I could bring myself to spend that sort of wonga on one car.
The above may of course be rubbish but that's what I think I'd think anyway.
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I caught that bit of the programme and found it as annoying and silly as usual.
The Chevrolet is so obviously by far the best of those cars that I am amazed no one else has said so yet. Much cheaper to buy, much cheaper to service, obviously going to stand up to a battering far better too, and probably the fastest on give-and-take roads over any distance. It even has the advantage of being ugly and graceless looking. That girly-coloured Aston Martin is quite suave though.
That Fleetwood Mac geezer did quite a tidy lap in the shopping trolley although he must weigh as much as two ordinary men. Towered over that Clarkson.
Fleetwood Mac are a bit after my time so I can't remember what they sound like. Wonder if they're any good.
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>>Fleetwood Mac are a bit after my time so I can't remember what they sound like.
Every time you watch a Grand Prix on the BBC the theme music is by Fleetwood Mac.
But there is no vocals on the bit they use!
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>> The above may of course be rubbish but that's what I think I'd think anyway.
Not at all, I think it makes a lot of sense.
I could bring myself to spend "silly money" on a car, but it wouldn't be an LFA, or even anything in production today. It would need to be something older, rarer and that you simply can't buy a modern equivalent of because the very essence of what it is simply doesn't fit in with modern regulations. A Ferrari F40, for example. Maybe an original Shelby 427 Cobra (if it was a big Euros win). Something with a bit of history that is a bit of a git to start or to get into 2nd gear, something that needs to be treated with a bit of respect, and has a few quirks.
As you say, it is not smart or logical to spend six figures on a motor, so the only reason anyone would do it is for emotional reasons. And quite honestly, apart from an MX-5, I can't remember a car I've driven made since about 1990 that I thought had any character at all, or that I thought I could actually learn to love.
The rest of my collection would consist mostly of a handful of mint, restored 80's and 90's hot hatches, and something fast, subtle and practical as a daily driver. BMW M5 perhaps. :-)
Last edited by: DP on Mon 4 Feb 13 at 17:25
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For me anyway, I'd find it tough to think of anything more useable, while remaining suitably indulgent of course than a, preferably de-badged, E63 estate.
I quite like the notion of a softly spoken big stick.
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If I won a load of money I don't think I could spend that sort of money on a car. Even if I could afford to do it every month.
I'd probably be happy with something like an Audi A5 Sportback or A6 with a 3.0 bi-turbo engine. Still an expensive car but no in the league of Aston Martin's.
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I would be pretty much as excited to be able to afford to run a 15 mpg car as I would to be able to buy a £300,000 one. :-)
Lots of lovely, cheaper stuff out there that I would love to drive if I could afford the fuel.
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Mmmm - watched episode 3 today, and was pretty underwhelmed.
the Toyota bit was OK, but the roadtrip is now getting boring.
The audiobook gag is now stale, and May's collapsible bike trick has been done before.
5/10 - could try harder
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Watching episode 2 made me realise that when the SINRPC is nobody interesting, and I've forgotten him already, the programme is a waste of time.
May is OK but the value he adds is more than negated by the witless Hammond who should be on daytime TV, if not actually a shopping channel.
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I'm not sure Hammond is talented enough to get a slot on a shopping channel. Somehow he fell lucky with TG and now he's a celeb.
How did he get to be a TG presenter. I think he's got more of a fool (along with JC) as it's gone on. The only decent one of the three is James May.
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What, Mick Fleetwood not interesting - I must have been watching a different show!
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>> What, Mick Fleetwood not interesting - I must have been watching a different show!
Thanks, that was him. If he did say anything interesting, it must have been the first bit when I was making a cup of tea.
Yes I have heard of Fleetwood Mac, but it's all been downhill since the dustbin album ;-)
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I like all three of them (mostly). I think the problem is that the vehicle is old and tired nad pretty much everything has been done.
Top Gear would benefit from a different format and presenters, and the presenters would benefit from a new format and subject.
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I can summarise my thoughts on last night's episode in just three words.
Mmmm....Amy Macdonald.
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Amy Macdonald - good driver, cheerfu, charmingl AND a petrol head! What a list of cars she has owned!
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There are shed loads of good jock girl singers about
This live performance by KT Tunstall is nothing short of astonishing.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYEU91d8ngc
No idea what car she drives tho
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>>>This live performance by KT Tunstall is nothing short of astonishing.
I've followed KT since that Jools performance, seen her in Cambridge too. Last time at a small venue late in 2010. Tiny gutsy voiced singer with a jeans & t-shirt image and friendly way with an audience. She could drop straight into fronting a 70s rock band like Sonja Kristina or Jenny Haan.
Enjoyed watching Amy M's obvious enthusiasm for cars on TG too.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Mon 11 Feb 13 at 21:21
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>> >>>This live performance by KT Tunstall is nothing short of astonishing.
>>
>> I've followed KT since that Jools performance, seen her in Cambridge too. Last time at
>> a small venue late in 2010. Tiny gutsy voiced singer with a jeans & t-shirt
>> image and friendly way with an audience. She could drop straight into fronting a 70s
>> rock band like Sonja Kristina or Jenny Haan.
You seen this version with Daryl Hall?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjQMaqoX5zE
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Thanks Zero, no I hadn't. KT will never be a Beyonce type superstar, glamour girl or ultimate vocalist... more like a supercharged busker and all the better for it.
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>> There are shed loads of good jock girl singers about
I reckon this one will do well - www.youtube.com/watch?v=sczEBtOnD3k
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I don't like X Torture, Strictly anything, nor indeed anything to do with jungles, big brothers or nonentities on ice. I equally cannot bear Neighbourly Coronation Enders etc. So guess what?
I don't bother watching them.
I do like TG, so I do watch it.
And indeed Amy Macdonald...Yes indeed...
:-)
Oh and I actually hate Lorraine Kelly, with a passion.
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Mon 11 Feb 13 at 18:33
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>> I don't like X Torture, Strictly anything, nor indeed anything to do with jungles, big
>> brothers or nonentities on ice. I equally cannot bear Neighbourly Coronation Enders etc. So guess
>> what?
>>
>> I don't bother watching them.
I suppose you're being uncharacteristically sarky about me watching things I don't like.
I watch car programmes because I'm interested in cars. I usually find something amongst the dross, and I've been watching TG since well before the three stooges got involved. Now it seems to have reached its nadir, I am on the point of giving up. Plan now is to record it and whizz through to see if there is anything worth watching.
But thanks for the tip ;-)
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>> Mmmm....Amy Macdonald.
She was ok until she went into smug mode.
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>> Mmmm....Amy Macdonald.
Nice tune - www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRYvuS9OxdA
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I don't watch Dancing on Coronation Factor. Never have, probably never will.
I haven't watched a current Top Gear for years. I occasionally watch an old TG on Dave if there is nothing else worth watching and it's too much trouble to turn the telly off.
I think Hammond and May must thank their lucky stars that they were picked up by the Top Gear recruiters. I am sure that they are pleasant men in their private lives, but they have a very limited talent.
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I think James May is rather more talented than he sometimes appears to be. He used to write his own newspaper column which was informative and readable. I don't think he does himself any favours with his leonine hair and not tucking his shirt in, but this is sartorial and does not reflect on his work on TV and in writing
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I like May but he's a weird throwback. His whole attitude seems to be of a 40/50s child but he was actually born in '63.
If nothing else his crowning achievement must be the "hidden" text he arranged in the Autocar 1992 road test supplement... they fired him for that.
www.flickr.com/photos/8443340@N06/sets/72157600242068267
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Hammond, May and Clarkson do the job well, make lots of money for BBC and come across as , in the most, quite decent guys.
Read Hammond's autobiography.
As for limited talent, other than "performers" who would you say on TV has exceptional talent?
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Shock horror! Jezza prefers the Astra VXR over the Focus ST.
That aside, whilst having a demolition derby with the new Kia looked fun and entertaining, I wonder what poor saps will end up buying one of them once repaired? Or did Kia just let them have a load of cars for advertising purposes and scrap them afterwards?
At one time they offered a little bit of mechanical sympathy to new cars and just bashed the older ones.
On the whole though, it's starting to get like watching repeats of TG on Dave.
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>> On the whole though, it's starting to get like watching repeats of TG on Dave.
>>
Naw.
The ones on Dave are sometimes worth watching.
(I now look at TG on I player, so can skip past the dross....)
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I enjoyed it as usual. Although I confess to being somewhat disturbed by Lewis Hamilton's accent. Why is he trying to talk like a modern London gangster?
I don't think Kia's sales will have been harmed at all by last night. Clearly tough, well made cars.
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>> I enjoyed it as usual. Although I confess to being somewhat disturbed by Lewis Hamilton's
>> accent. Why is he trying to talk like a modern London gangster?
Thats "gangsta"
Ge it right init.
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The Kias will have been scrapped. I remember when they did the same thing (OK, it was football) a few years ago using Toyota Aygos, a mate who worked at Toyota said they were all scrapped, and that it was looked on as very cheap publicity.
How many minutes of prime-time TV did they get? For the cost price of 10 cars. Bargain!
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Yeah I couldn't help but think it was one huge love-in for Kia. So what message did we get:
Its faster than the last one
It has an auto park function that works
Bruce Willis likes it
matt Le Blanc likes it
can play rugby in it and take a few hits and still be working
A whole load of free positive publicity.
But why are people saying the cars should be written off for the sake of some panel damage? OK one of the Sportages had a bad hit around a wheel but other than that, lift the damaged panels off, put new ones on and away you go.
The transmissions etc will have encountered less wheelspins / clutch damage etc than the average supermarket car park in the middle of the snowfalls this year!
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I accidentally stumbled on TG last night - first time in years and only because R3 has come up with a god slot on Sunday evenings so I was zapping around. What a bag of carp Clarkson and James May both look these days. They really do look like a pair of overgrown schoolboys. It seems a shame that they have traduced their wide ranging talents to entertain a dwindling band of undemanding followers. I stood it for all of five minutes.
What really depressed me was the audience.
I won't be pressing that button again.
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I found the Lewis Hamilton interview more insightful than I expected. His recognition that Mercedes problems stem from the 2009 car and that essentially they didnt have the right base from which to work from shows he must have really examined what their issues are. There has been much speculation that he didnt know what he was getting into at Merc, but my sense now is that he was eyes wide open, especially for 2014 when it is a clean sheet again.
He also looked incredibly happy and relaxed, clearly the sponsorship pressures were real and he acknowledged as much.
I skipped through the rugby bit, waste of time, but the Ceed was moderately OK and it was interesting to see the auto-park working.
I dont know why people moan so much about it, there is plenty else on if its not your thing.
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FoR, I have to agree about Hamilton. He knows the car is not going to be great this season but then next season a new design again and a chance to get ahead again. Mercedes will have the advantage of being able to get the engine designed to take into account the overall package - customer's will just get what MB provide.
And it does seem one strong reason for him to move from Mclaren was the sponsorship commitments. I suspect they are flying all over the place to appear at events etc. outside of their duties when they are driving. Well paid for it though....
They seemed overly excited about a C'eed parking itself. VWs have been doing that for a few years now. As an additional cost to my car, it was something like £165 I think (already have parking sensors)... all I think it adds to mine is two additional sensors on the side of bumpers to scan the size of spaces... I might have gone for it as a gimmick but I've said before it has to rely on the sensors to work out when to turn the wheel so has an aggressive approach angle and you'd think it was going to clip the car in front... and when I tried it outside my house it failed because of a tree. If I was parking the tree is not a problem... you just take a little more space to park so the angle is not as sharp.
I didn't see if the C'eed will park in a space in a car park.... the VW one does. Again I aborted the attempt when it seemed awfully close to the other cars. I'm sure it does work but this was a demo car.
As for Hamilton not knowing his time... if he was slower than Vettel he'd have not come on. And nobody else would know he'd tried again. They probably let him keep going until he got a better time. I'm sure Vettel with more laps could go faster again. And I bet they cut in the goofing around in the car with footage of the fast lap... they were not the same lap.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 18 Feb 13 at 11:41
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"Why are people saying the cars should be written off for the sake of some panel damage?"
Who would Kia sell these cars to? And imagine the lawsuit if ever one failed - the Ambulance Chasers would surely try to blame it on the car's use in the TG slot, and sue for a daft settlement.
From a legal perspective, cheaper and simpler all round to write them off. Besides, how many Kias were written off in the design and testing phase, and again for crash tests on the finished design?
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I wonder what the factory gate value per car is? In effect that's what they'd be writing off plus any shipping and duty.
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Who's to say that these models weren't going to be scrapped for some reason anyway. We'll never know but I am surprised the BBC let them plug Kia products so much. When the rest of the world audience is taken into account.... how cheap was this advertising? Practically free.
And better than an advert, this will be shown over and over in the future as repeats and so they get even more free plugging of brand/products.
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Humph, I've heard the ex-factory price of a Cee'd sized car sold in mainland Europe put at 50% of its retail price. So €6500 based on the starting prices quoted today on kia.fr.
Edit: There's a brave looking offer on the French Kia website - if you're not happy with your new Kia within a month of buying it, you can give it back (less the cost of registration and delivery) provided you've done less than 1000km on it, no questions asked.
Last edited by: Gromit on Mon 18 Feb 13 at 13:12
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So even if they did write them all off, which I suspect they won't, except in the case of those worst affected, it was very cheap advertising given that TG airs worldwide and continues to be repeated for years to come.
Clever stuff because although most here would know who Kia were and would have a view of their products, suddenly a whole raft of new people will now have at least some brand awareness and have been told/sold that the cars are tough and fun.
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>> So even if they did write them all off, which I suspect they won't, except
>> in the case of those worst affected, it was very cheap advertising given that TG
>> airs worldwide and continues to be repeated for years to come.
>>
Pre-production models ? When was Twickenham resurfaced ? They were new Cee'd models, I don't know about the Sportage and it's cycle.
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Dunno about playing Rugby with cars but I'd love to see clay pigeon shooting using Espaces as clays...
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That piece of film was in the editing suite for some time. The old pitch at Twickenham was replaced in June last year, the Cee'd was launched in late Spring/early Summer 2012 autoexpress ran new model story 30th May 2012.
Either very early build or hand built pre-production cars could have been used.
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>> I wonder what the factory gate value per car is? In effect that's what they'd
>> be writing off plus any shipping and duty.
>>
A colleague of mine is an ex JLR man. Tells me a fully decked out XJ was about 12K to build circa 4 years ago
Given they are aluminium and come with loads of leather and toys they I would think half or less for a family hatch.
I did find myself wondering if the impartial BBC may have breached its editorial guidelines by giving what was effectively a 20 minute free commercial. The only real comparison was that a golf was a fiver more expensive
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"...a fully decked out XJ was about 12K to build circa 4 years ago"
That sounds about right. Remember, too, that the extra cost of materials between an entry level and top-of-the range model - or between, say, an XF and an XJ - isn't much (or else is more than covered by the price of any optional extras), so you can understand why makers like 1) selling higher-spec models and 2) selling larger cars over smaller ones.
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...and you can see why the obsession with volume - it's a fixed cost business, and sales at the margin are very profitable. Fully costed, the average XJ will cost a lot most than £12k to make.
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Watched last nights show, it was more mainstream Focus/Megane/Astra family cars, the kind of cars people say TG don't do any more. They complain TG is out of touch testing exotica.
It would be interesting to hear the feedback from the people who called for this price bracket of cars to be tested to see if that is the kind of show they want for entertainment.
Last edited by: gmac on Mon 18 Feb 13 at 12:55
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>> it was more mainstream Focus/Megane/Astra family cars,
I wouldn't refer the VXR, the ST, and the 265 as being mainstream cars. They're sporty variants of their mainstream cousins.
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>> >> it was more mainstream Focus/Megane/Astra family cars,
>>
>> I wouldn't refer the VXR, the ST, and the 265 as being mainstream cars. They're
>> sporty variants of their mainstream cousins.
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Has the UK fallen out of love with the hot hatch ?
I would have thought provided the insurance isn't too ruinous and the CO2 emissions are in the 100-and-something bracket these cars would fly out of the showrooms considering most of the desirable German cars are now the wrong side of £30k.
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Might be a bit steamy on bik though. What's more, company car drivers are being encouraged to be Capt. Sensible at the moment too and private buyers windy about mpg. Doesn't stack.
The hot hatch was a child of the loadsamoney eighties.
Shame really. Fun cars all of them by the looks.
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Just had a quick look on:
cccfcalculator.hmrc.gov.uk
Put a list price of £27k in 169g/km emissions (Focus ST), £0 Employee capital contribution, £0 Employee payments made towards private use with the employee paying for private fuel.
40% tax payer £2700. Is that high ?
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Surprisingly low to me anyway. A lot less than my Merc...
Hmmmmm....
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>> Hmmmmm....
But would you want a car who's trim level has the same initials as that of a feminine hygiene product?
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>> Put a list price of £27k in 169g/km emissions (Focus ST), £0 Employee capital contribution,
>> £0 Employee payments made towards private use with the employee paying for private fuel.
>> 40% tax payer £2700. Is that high ?
I work out for this current tax year a 169g/km emissions car to be taxed at 24% for BIK. So that's £2592 in tax for a higher rate payer. You can see car companies go for the highest allowed rating in a category... mine end in a 9 too as they are rounded down to the nearest 5/0.
By way of comparison, this year my car with emissions of 129g/km and being a diesel has a rate of 19% and a list price of £28616. So for a 40% rate tax payer tax is £2175pa in tax. A reason I went for this 170PS and not the cheaper 200+PS turbo petrol. Lower list price but higher BIK. Mine is helped because it has stop-start and regenerative braking (Bluemotion Technologies). I do low miles so the petrol/diesel argument is not the issue - emissions is/was.
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That's one way of looking at it rtj, for me £225 a month in tax and just add petrol for private miles takes some beating looking in from the outside as a someone who is not a company car driver.
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But looking at the BIK rates you can get decent performing diesels for less than a Focus ST3. Okay mine won't handle like it but it's better equipped, larger, etc.
It will be interesting next time I choose a car. If companies put stop-start and regenerative braking on their petrol cars then the BIK will drop and I'd consider a turbo petrol. Although the Mazda6 2.2 Sport is looking like a rather nice option. Lower emissions than this car and lower list price with similar spec.
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Top Gear returns on the 27th Jan - VxFan