Hi,
I know DP started an interesting thread sometime ago about his experience on a speed awareness course but thought it best not to resurrect such an old thread. I had a clean licence until I got the dreaded letter today, and have the choice between £60 and 3 points or a speed awareness course, for which Avon & Somerset (a long way from home for me) charge £80 tuition fee. Has anyone done the math(s) as to which is the best option (doing a Huhne isn’t one of them, I’ll have to take my medicine), particularly when it comes to insurance? It was suggested to me by one of my work colleagues that insurance companies these days don’t raise their premiums for a mere 3 points, don’t know if that’s true or not? And if I choose to go on the course don’t I still have to declare it to my insurance company? Altogether it made me think that I might as well just pay the £60 and be done with it. Does anybody think any different? I might just go for the course with the hassle and expense if it benefitted me financially in the long run.
Thanks
|
|
Do the course Felix. Points make prizes...
|
If you could do the course closer to home would that make a difference ?
IIRC some, not all allow you to attend " locally".
|
I have to go to Somerset regularly. Going again tomorrow in fact. It's 160 miles from where I live. I'll leave at 05.00 and I'll be there for 08.00. It's not so bad.
Where do you live Felix?
|
>> I have to go to Somerset regularly. Going again tomorrow in fact. It's 160 miles
>> from where I live. I'll leave at 05.00 and I'll be there for 08.00.
You could do the course for him!
I'd like to be hard-faced about it and tell them to stuff their course, but in reality (which may be tested soon - oops, I'm watching the post with dread) I'm pretty sure I'd want to avoid the points and all the possible future issues, especially as I'm on four insurance policies.
Last edited by: Bill Payer on Thu 7 Feb 13 at 18:43
|
|
You can't do the course locally as it's a money making scam by the force who caught you not the one where you live.
|
>> You can't do the course locally as it's a money making scam by the force
>> who caught you not the one where you live.
That's not necessarily so. I got one in Herts and they say you can arrange one nearer home if you need to.
www.hertsdirect.org/services/transtreets/rsu/driving/drivingoffendercourses/nsacourses/nsacfaq/
|
In answer to the question - do I have to declare it?, only you can answer.
Insurance policies vary and some ask questions about traffic offences, not how you were punished. You were still caught for speeding, just no points and no fine.
|
>> You can't do the course locally as it's a money making scam by the force
>> who caught you not the one where you live.
>>
I do not think that is correct. IIRC just a hanful do not allow choice of venue but the AA do some of the courses so no problem re location.
www.aadrivetech.com/driveraware/bookonline/
" transfer to another AA DriveTechvenue"
|
|
If it was me, I would take the course every time. You just don't know what is likely to happen in the future.
|
>> You can't do the course locally as it's a money making scam by the force
>> who caught you not the one where you live.
>>
No, it isn't a 'scam'.
tinyurl.com/lh967
In reply to the OP, I had the same dilemma some three years ago. I took the course and found it very worthwhile.
No insurance company has yet asked me if I have done a SAC.
|
>> It was suggested to
>> me by one of my work colleagues that insurance companies these days don’t raise their
>> premiums for a mere 3 points, don’t know if that’s true or not?
Some do apparently.
>>And if
>> I choose to go on the course don’t I still have to declare it to
>> my insurance company?
Arguably yes as some now add the same increase as they would for the points; but I was told by the tutor on my course that I needn't. Some now ask as they do for offences.
>>Altogether it made me think that I might as well just pay
>> the £60 and be done with it. Does anybody think any different? I might just
>> go for the course with the hassle and expense if it benefitted me financially in
>> the long run.
If you're confident you won't get any more points, and you already know everything, then take them - I want as big a buffer as possible so I took a course. Good decision as it turned out, I triggered another camera a month later.
Most people say they get some benefit from the course and find it a much more positive experience than they expected.
Prepare to be shocked at the ignorance of some of the people you share the road with if you do the course.
|
|
Take the course. If you have three, you may be unlucky and get another some time in the next three years.. The Insurance company my not be bothered by three, but they will be quite perturbed by 6 and will easily charge you more than the cost of the course....
|
>> Good decision as it turned out, I triggered another camera a month later.
Useful course then ;-)
|
>> >> Good decision as it turned out, I triggered another camera a month later.
>>
>> Useful course then ;-)
I hadn't actually done the course by then!
|
>> I want as big a buffer as possible so I took a course. Good decision as it turned out, I triggered another camera a month later.
That'd be my approach.
>> I was told by the tutor on my course that I needn't [disclose to my insurer]
Well I think he was wrong. And whilst it is, in the scheme of things, trivial, I personally wouldn't take the risk.
The argument being this;
If it is a material fact then you must disclose it.
If it is not a material fact then it won't affect your premium.
If it affects your premium then it is a material fact.
|
"it made me think that I might as well just pay the £60 and be done with"
Absolutely.
Unless you like being lectured at.
|
|
I would go to the course if it was me.Pay the fine learn something from a lecture and no three points on your licence.
|
I was told by someone once who went on one of these courses they were asked to watch a video. They were then asked to comment and say what they would then do and what they'd seen. One said something along the lines: "I'd floor it". When questioned on the risks because of poor visibility etc.... they responded that was the pedestrians' problem.
He was thrown off the course immediately. And instead got points and a hefty fine. The fine was several hundred and far more than the original fine he was trying to avoid.
|
>> Absolutely.
>>
>> Unless you like being lectured at.
Have you done one CG? I wouldn't have called it being lectured at. The one I attended was very good and even entertaining.
I'd say it was IAM based having done that 30 or so years ago, very real world and not at all hectoring. It was necessarily fairly basic, being classroom based and half a day, but far from the Pauline and Mickey (League of Gentlemen) experience I expected -
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or6CwOyx30I
You could get a poor one I suppose, but I'd advise anybody offered one to jump at it unless they've had reasonably recent high quality driver training.
|
"Have you done one CG?"
No. I don't see what they are going to teach you that a reasonable driver doesn't already know. I got a couple of convictions in quick succession 10 years back and that reminded me to be more observant and drive in accordance with the limits.
If you can't work that out for yourself I suspect a course is not going to help.
|
|
Nearly everybody thinks they are a good driver. I'm brilliant myself.
|
|
Then you won't need a speed awareness course will you?
|
I used to be an instructor on Driver Improvement Courses run by the council. No speeders back then, but minor offences usually involving a bump.
I know it wouldn't apply to the car aware types on here, but the lack of even the most basic Highway Code knowledge and rules of the road among the clients was astounding.
|
|
I haven't done one, but the common thread from these courses is that unless you're a Muppet the only thing you'll learn (which is an eye-opener in itself) is how little other road users know. They're probably sitting there thinking the same about everyone else too.
|
>> I haven't done one, but the common thread from these courses is that unless you're
>> a Muppet the only thing you'll learn (which is an eye-opener in itself) is how
>> little other road users know. They're probably sitting there thinking the same about everyone else
>> too.
Mrs B, while not being any sort of driving enthusiast is no muppet. She's also a scientist so has a reasonable grasp of Newtonian physics.
She still felt she learned a lot from her SAC 10yrs ago. 'Tarmac & tyres', reading a road surface and managing tailgaters were just three.
|
Maybe this is apposite point to link to an online theory test practice you can try:
www.safedrivingforlife.info/practicetheorytest/
|
You'll not get the last word, Manatee.
:)
|
|
I figured that too. But what do I know, I've been on one!
|
|
After a bit of research I think I might have changed my mind, think the course looks the best bet now. I phoned my insurers (Direct Line) who told me that if I take the course and so don’t take the points I don’t need to declare it to them, which was reassuring in light of something I saw on HJ recently. Whereas it looks like the points would up my premium by £30 or so, and then there’s the risk of getting another 3 points. Also found that I can take the course anywhere, though in the home counties it seems to cost more (£95). But weighing up the pros and cons it now seems like the best thing to do.
|
>> No. I don't see what they are going to teach you that a reasonable driver
>> doesn't already know. I got a couple of convictions in quick succession 10 years back
>> and that reminded me to be more observant and drive in accordance with the limits.
>>
>> If you can't work that out for yourself I suspect a course is not going
>> to help.
>>
>>
Don't go fooling yourself there mate. As an HGV driver I have to undergo DCPC training every year; whilst you don't often learn anything new, it does help you to think about WHY you do cetain things and how to avoid certain situations.
There is no more dangerous driver than one who thinks he knows it all.
|
My old dad has just had the letter through the post today, he's a retired HGV driver of 40 years. Nothing you can do but just take it on the chin, I've advised to take the course as a clean license is better then one with points. 38 in a 30, exactly the same as what I did when I took the course in 2011.
I enjoyed it although I was clock watching a bit, informative in points and a few know it all attendees but a good experience. Notable bit was a guy who had drove from Scotland to S Yorks to take the course, had 6 points already and drove a Nissan GTR. Based on the cost of that points avoidance, the alternative doesn't bear thinking about!!
|
"There is no more dangerous driver than one who thinks he knows it all."
Indeed but I don't. I'm that rare breed of driver who considers himself average. Getting two ticket in quick successions was not the mark of a superior driver
After I got a the couple of tickets I worked out what I was doing wrong. It was driving too fast. I also worked out that if I was a bit more observant and ensured that I knew what the speed limit was at all times and kept to it or very close to it I wouldn't get booked for speeding. It really wasn't that complicated that I needed someone to explain it to me.
Keeping to this simple plan I have avoided any more tickets for 9 years. If I am incompetent enough to get another ticket I will pay the fine and take the points. It seems to me that most people who go on these courses are simply interested in avoiding the points. They have no interest or intention in changing their driving habits at all.
|
>> It seems to me that most people who go on these courses are
>> simply interested in avoiding the points. They have no interest or intention in changing their
>> driving habits at all.
>>
Until they go on the course. Many people praise the course having been initially sceptical. It is a brief eye opener into another world.
Keep your mind open and you'll learn more.
Just adjusting your speed down isn't becoming more aware, that is a very blunt tool. If you were more aware generally, you'd see the speed camera or similar in any case...but more to the point, you'd see loads more things too...and be considerably more safe.
We can all learn something, every single day.
|
"Many people praise the course having been initially sceptical"
Really? Most, I think you will find, regard it as a sort of "get out of jail free card" and I doubt that it changes their driving habits one little bit.
|
Perhaps they do regard it as a sort of "get out of jail free card", before going on the course. Wife was caught out near the Cat and Fiddle: minor amount over 50. She found the course helpful in giving advice further and beyond the simple speed limit aspect. I've managed to avoid being nicked for anything, but it could happen, and not just speeding. Even after having "some" advanced driving tuition, and commentary by ex traffic-police driver, and skid-pan session I could do with a refresher. Past performance is no guarantee etc. As Westpig says, you never stop learning. An attitude that there is nothing further that can be done is a little complacent maybe...
|
>>>> "Many people praise the course having been initially sceptical"
>> Really? Most, I think you will find, regard it as a sort of "get out
>> of jail free card"
Both can be true. I elected to take it as an alternative to points. That I believe is what is intended - I imagine very few people do one without coercion.
>>and I doubt that it changes their driving habits one little bit
According to North Yorkshire Police, "Academic research shows that the re-offending rate of course participants over a six-month period was halved compared with drivers who were given a fixed penalty."
You have reminded me of my son who won't eat tomatoes because he doesn't like them, despite never having eaten one.
You do not get a lecture on the evils of speeding. Essentially you get driver training, of the kind that most people never experience - not the kind that you get from a driving school to pass the test. You'd find a lot of it in Roadcraft, albeit in more detail.
However good, anybody's driving can be improved.
I can't think of a reason to resist learning, unless like Homer Simpson's your head is full and you have to forget something to get some new stuff in.**
If that doesn't change your view, you get coffee and biscuits too.
**
HOMER:
Oh. And how is 'education' supposed to make me feel smarter? Besides, every time I learn something new, it pushes some old stuff out of my brain. Remember when I took that home wine-making course and I forgot how to drive?
|
Hopefully I'm never going to be offered the opportunity to attend such a course so it all a bit academic.
You found attending a course valuable - good for you. I was never offered a course but looked at my own failings and changed the way I drive. That worked for me. different people learn in different way.
Incidentally since the claim is that these course highly effective why are they not offered to serious offenders? - wouldn't they be the one to benefit most?
|
>>
>> You found attending a course valuable - good for you. I was never offered a
>> course but looked at my own failings and changed the way I drive. That worked
>> for me. different people learn in different way.
Learn what? I'm as capable as you of learning not to speed from getting points.
You keep ignoring the point that there is far more in the courses. I would completely agree with your reasoning if it was about turning up for a rollocking and some gory pictures, but it isn't, so the premise of your opinion seems to be wrong. There was no telling off at all, just lots of useful insight, practical tips and technique.
>> Incidentally since the claim is that these course highly effective why are they not offered
>> to serious offenders? - wouldn't they be the one to benefit most?
Possibly. It should be tried if it hasn't been.
One of my reservations about the camera approach is that it catches people who are essentially acting responsibly - they might even be making a conscious effort to observe limits and drift a few mph over. Those basically law abiding people will probably be more receptive to a helpful and informative session that improves their driving than the wilful speeder who just thinks he knows better.
The triers are certainly more deserving of an alternative to a fine and points, aren't they?
Maybe the more serious offenders should get the fine, the points, and the course.
As you say, it's academic for you - my comments based on my experience are more for the benefit of anybody who is contemplating one.
|
"You keep ignoring the point that there is far more in the courses."
So you say and I'm glad you found it useful.
For me your analogy of your son's views on tomatoes is a good one. He doesn't like the look of the the things, he doesn't like the smell of them, he doesn't like the idea of them and he has no intention of trying one.
|
>> For me your analogy of your son's views on tomatoes is a good one. He
>> doesn't like the look of the the things, he doesn't like the smell of them,
>> he doesn't like the idea of them and he has no intention of trying one.
>>
.....despite the fact it would do him good.
|
>> >> For me your analogy of your son's views on tomatoes is a good one.He doesn't like the look of the the things, he doesn't like the smell of them,he doesn't like the idea of them and he has no intention of trying one.
>> >>
>> .....despite the fact it would do him good.
>>
There's none so blind as those who will not see....
|
"despite the fact it would do him good."
I spend a lot of time avoiding people who "would do me good" They bring me out in a rash.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Wed 13 Feb 13 at 22:31
|
|
Hmmm glad I've kicked off a lively debate :-) I tend to think I'm a pretty good driver, especially in terms of awareness of road conditions and anticipating hazards, and think I compare pretty well with a lot of the muppets I see out there. However I don't think I'd feel too patronised by a speed awareness course, so I'll keep an open mind...
Last edited by: Felix on Thu 14 Feb 13 at 11:54
|
>> Indeed but I don't. I'm that rare breed of driver who considers himself average. Getting
>> two ticket in quick successions was not the mark of a superior driver
>>
I've just realised that I initially read your post as you thinking you were better than you are, a re-reading tells me that wasn't the case. My apologies for being somewhat dismissive in my earlier post.
|
I did a course in 2012, and what Westpig said is spot on for me. It is not so much a 'watch your speed' thing as a 'make you think' in more general terms. Most of the people on the course seemed to go in with a positive attitude and an open mind. There was one idiot in particular who knew it all, much better than our instructor or anyone else in the room. There was more than one smirk at the end of the day when he roared out of the car park in an X5 with a private plate.
Do the course. It's quite eye opening if you let it be.
|
"Do the course. It's quite eye opening if you let it be."
I'm doing my best not to get "invited". Should I fail in that endeavour I shall re-consider my position knowing that my current strategy has failed.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Wed 13 Feb 13 at 08:02
|
>> I'm doing my best not to get "invited". Should I fail in that endeavour I
>> shall re-consider my position knowing that my current strategy has failed.
My strategy worked for 20 years, half of those covering 30-35,000 miles a year, and probably no more than 2 or 3 covering less than 15,000 miles. Not so much as a tug from the police, or a single point on the license.
One momentary slip, 35 in a 30 on a road close to home that I've driven hundreds of times before, past a fixed camera I knew was there. I seem to remember remonstrating with the kids in the back who were arguing. Maybe that was the reason, maybe not. Whatever, the end result was the same.
It really doesn't take much for a hitherto blemish free strategy to fall on its backside.
|
"It really doesn't take much for a hitherto blemish free strategy to fall on its backside."
It really doesn't. I picked up my two speeding tickets within days after 35 years of managing to avoid same. One was past a known local camera on a deserted road late at night where I simply failed to watch my speed and was clocked at 42 in a 30.
The other was on a road where I believed the limit to be 50 and it was in fact 40. I was clocked at 53 if I remember correctly. Both events point to lack of concentration/observation on my part. No excuse at all really. I resolved to try to do better and to look at the way I was driving. So far it seems to be working.
|
sq
>> The other was on a road where I believed the limit to be 50 and
>> it was in fact 40. I was clocked at 53 if I remember correctly. Both
>> events point to lack of concentration/observation on my part. No excuse at all really. I
>> resolved to try to do better and to look at the way I was driving.
>> So far it seems to be working.
>>
The technical term is "old age and encroaching senility".
Enjoy it!
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 13 Feb 13 at 16:30
|
I have never had a blemish-free strategy or regarded my commerce with the automobile and the associated authorities as blemish free. In fact I am on record as saying that all motorists are criminals by definition so there's no point in looking all po-faced.
My licence is clean at the moment though, the last three points for deliberately and safely running a busy red light having expired. I fear I am getting old.
|
"old age and encroaching senility".
Blimey I was only 53 then. Must be early onset.
|
Speed Awareness Course vs 3 Points... - Runfer D'Hills
