At just shy of 19,000 miles, the 320d is now advising me to book an appointment with service to get its oil changed in 600 miles, so I called the lease company today to get it booked in.
Imagine my surprise when I get a confirmation that it will be done by a local indie garage instead of a main dealer. This is a well established place with a good reputation, where I would happily take my own car, but it is about as far removed from a BMW glass palace as you can imagine.
This will be the first lease car I've ever had to have anything done outside of the franchised dealer network. While I have no personal problem with this at all, I just wondered if anyone else had come across this before.
I guess the lease company is taking a flyer that they will need no goodwill from the manufacturer during their ownership of the vehicle.
Cheers
DP
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I am surprised at that - I though the more expensive marques were more sensitive to dealer service history than the likes of Ford and VX.
You almost wonder if they have agreed a large discount on the car and taken the warranty on themselves as I believe some of the large electrical retailers do.
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It was common place with my lease cars, starting about 5 years ago. I understand the lease company had a kind of bid system, where they put the car up on a list and garages bid for the work. Had my Altea serviced at a multi franchise chain (owned by vauxhall) even had it serviced at a Ford Garage.
I just tell leaseco it needs a service, and they tell me when its being picked up.
>I guess the lease company is taking a flyer that they will need no goodwill from the >manufacturer during their ownership of the vehicle.
Nope -no flyer at work, the leasco says Jump and BMWGB jumps. In or out the service chain. If leasco didnt buy cars BMWGB is out of business.
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I'm not surprised because our previous lease company used to try this as well. I came up with logical reasons why it needed to go to the Mazda dealer. And the Ford dealer for the one before that.
Actually they didn't always insist it went to someone other than a proper dealer. And when it did there was a few niggles that needed looking at under warranty.
The next time my car needs a service it will hopefully go to the local VW dealer. The lease part of the business will lend me something fun - I have an agreement. Trouble is it might only need one service in the three years I have it.
Before it gets it's first service, it will need two new tyres.... glad I'm not paying. Might get to 12k miles before they need doing. And I'm assuming someone will break the tyre pressure monitoring system and try to put on some cheaper tyres.
>> Nope -no flyer at work, the leasco says Jump and BMWGB jumps. In or out the service
>> chain. If leasco didnt buy cars BMWGB is out of business.
Whilst the car is owned by the lease company, BMW or any other company will jump. When they flog it on at auction things might change for the next buyer. One reason I tried to keep it in the dealer network. And on the Mazda the independent didn't know anything about the right oil a Mazda diesel needs to be okay with diesel in it.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 25 Feb 13 at 19:40
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Modern cars, apparently, need software updates only available to main dealers - so how do they get over that ?
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When I bought my Octavia it had a full service history from its leasing co previous owner. All done at what are now Halfords Autocentres, and the bare minimum required according to the specialist I use now.
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>> When I bought my Octavia it had a full service history from its leasing co
>> previous owner. All done at what are now Halfords Autocentres,....
>>
I saw a comment on another forum the other day about someone with an Audi lease car being told to take it to Halfords.
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>> Modern cars, apparently, need software updates only available to main dealers - so how do
>> they get over that ?
>>
That's very over-blown by the "must take it to a franchise dealer" brigade. It's very rare that a software update gets done routinely - you normally have to reports a specific complaint which matches the criteria the manufacturer has set or the dealer won't get paid, and it's time consuming (and fraught with risks) doing software updates - some take literally hours and tie up a service bay and disagnostic computer.
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When I had a Mondeo and Mazda6, the lease company tried taking it to a real back street type garage. Not another franchise but somewhere unlikely to be able to do more than an oil and filter change. They don't care about future owners. The warranty no doubt is fine until they sell them on.
Buyer beware.
Now my current car is still rather nice and will be very low mileage in October 2014. But the lease company will want a premium to buy it. Maybe I should follow it to auction :-)
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Thing is would the main dealer do anything more to the car than a competent indy, well apart from charge twice as much and put the gold plated stamp in the book, you'd like to think that Gucci oil was being used such is the price charged but that in many cases is a myth.
Good chance the MD will spray some white grease on the outside of your door hinges where it will do no good whatsoever, looks the business.
When was the last time your main dealer stripped your brakes cleaned inspected lubricated and reassembled them properly, in practice the tech will peer through and from behind the wheels and thats one example only....my ageing MB is going into my MB indy in a couple of weeks for full service and MOT, that and a whole lot more will be checked and maintained, Fuchs oil will be used.
For a long time the rental companies used, and probably still do, mobile contract mechanics, he'd arrive in a van and go through the vehicles due, basically an oil and filter change and inspection, its nothing new.
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If it's like my E91 330d then the first service will be nothing more than an oil change (at 22K miles as it happened). My leasing company always allowed me to use franchise dealers, I possibly had the choice of using others too but never thought to do it. I think they negotiate good pricing from whoever they use judging by comments I heard from both Audi and BMW dealers.
Last edited by: idle_chatterer on Mon 25 Feb 13 at 21:09
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>> I think they negotiate good pricing from whoever they use judging
>> by comments I heard from both Audi and BMW dealers.
>>
It's hard to imagine they could get it done cheaper than using the BMW service inclusive package.
Having said that, daughter's VW has a 3 service package that cost £300. Surprisingly I was given a copy of the invoice which gets sent to VW after the first service - £68 inc parts, labour & VAT.
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>> It's hard to imagine they could get it done cheaper than using the BMW service
>> inclusive package.
>>
I wouldn't be surprised at all. Last fleet car I had in the UK, the lease company had negotiated fixed servicing prices with the manufacturer which meant that whichever dealer got to do it made a loss on the job. Thus their only interest was to get the thing out of the place and move something profitable into the slot as quickly as possible.
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>> When was the last time your main dealer stripped your brakes cleaned inspected lubricated and
>> reassembled them properly,
I'm struggling to imagine that any garage does that these days.
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>> I'm struggling to imagine that any garage does that these days.
>>
I know it happens at my MB indy workshops (which resembles a breakers yard) i see the evidence and results, he's been a MB indy for some 40 years and is renowned in the marque, i also did such in my amateurish kerbside cowboy days.
You cannot inspect friction pads unless you remove them, i've had pads fall off the backing plate upon removal whic appeared good from cursory inspection, and unless you push the pistons back home fully you cannot tell if the brakes are free and working correctly.
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My post was nothing to do with what a main dealer vs independent does. It was more to do with future warranty claims that the manufacturer might try to get out of. As a company car driver you might think I might not care - but I was thinking about the future owner who buys at auction to find BMW or other company stitching them up.
For Mazdas, someone point out how you prove a service has happened? There is no log book since it is all kept on Mazda's computers. You can get a print out of service history. So if you go to an independent or a dealer other than Mazda, how do they record a service took place?
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>> but I was thinking about the future owner who buys at auction to find BMW
>> or other company stitching them up. For Mazdas,
Fair point RTJ, but in practice the second maker particularly hardly showered itself in glory sorting out ruined Diesel engines under goodwill, so why bother with good MD history?
The vast majority of the cars in question are going to be out of warranty when sold and the makers not interested in customer care, if it was a Toyota or other maker who believed in looking after their customers long after warranty has expired then it would matter more.
arguably
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>For Mazdas, someone point out how you prove a service has happened?
A receipt with parts and labour charges?
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>> For Mazdas, someone point out how you prove a service has happened? There is no
>> log book since it is all kept on Mazda's computers. You can get a print
>> out of service history. So if you go to an independent or a dealer other
>> than Mazda, how do they record a service took place?
The leasing company keep records.
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My lease cars were always serviced by the same independent garage - an arrangement made by the fleet manager, this garage was right next to the site I was based at and they did a first class job, car collected using the spare key held by the fleet office and delivered back to your parking space fully valeted with a post it note stuck on the steering wheel informing you if new discs or suchlike had been fitted.
The cars only rarely went to the main dealers if the FM deemed it necessary - usually if a major diagnostic job was required.
I did over 400,000 miles whilst at that company in just 3 cars (1 diesel Cavalier and 2 diesel Vectras) & none of them ever went to the dealer.
Another good routine was that on the first Tuesday of each month Kwik-Fit Mobile would visit the car park and check the tyres of each lease car (using space no & reg no) replacing tyres as necessary again using the spare keys.
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Thanks for the thoughts chaps. Clearly it's a fairly common occurrence then. As I said, this is a garage with a very good reputation locally. My neighbour has his E46 320d and his wife's A-Class serviced there and is very happy. They are also collecting from my house and dropping off when done (as the BMW dealer used to with the previous car).
Like all recent BMWs, this one operates on Condition Based Servicing. A number of items are monitored by the car's computer and estimated change / attention intervals for each are displayed in the service menu on the i-Drive. If you take the computer at its word, this is strictly an oil (and I presume filter) change. The thought that, at 19,000 miles it is still on the same oil it left the factory with horrifies me, but then it isn't my car. If it were, it would have had a change by now.
Apparently the next item needing attention will be the front brake pads in 27,000 miles from now. Seems optimistic, but they certainly look OK for now. I'm not sure how stuff like pollen filters get changed under the BMW service system.
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>> The thought that, at
>> 19,000 miles it is still on the same oil it left the factory with horrifies
>> me, but then it isn't my car. If it were, it would have had a
>> change by now.
>>
I don't know - it's reckoned fully synth oil is good for 30K miles, although there's also debate about whether the oil filter should be left that long. Mercedes has a long-life fleece filter but apparently no UK dealer uses them.
Sometimes I think the least number of times the car needs to go to the garage the better!
Last edited by: Bill Payer on Tue 26 Feb 13 at 13:40
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If I ever have another car on PCP (which is unlikely!), I wouldn't bother getting it serviced at all. Over the three years I owned the BMW I spent about £700 in servicing costs. The penalty for not having a completed service history was only £300...
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...are you sure it was the same penalty for having no service history at all?
Without me looking it up, can't you buy ServiceInclusive for about £300?
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If you didn't have a car serviced and a BMW Diesel lunched its turbo at 45k as many of them do, wouldn't you be liable for that and any of the other regular failings once the first service had been missed?
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Tue 26 Feb 13 at 17:28
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I think you're spot on with your thoughts. If something went wrong and no service history you're in trouble.
You mentioned the problems with Mazda diesels. I think part of the problem (apart from stupid design dumping oil into the sump) is owners are not aware of rising oil levels. Even as a company car driver, the lease company would have pursued me for costs if I'd neglected to get the oil changed in time. They'd keep saying it was not needed in between services (as a precaution) so I then said something along the line of: "So if the engine blows up I'm not liable then?". They couldn't say that so there was a circular argument until they gave in.
But the car went back with relatively low mileage and this one might be even less when it goes back. Might be worth buying if the price was right (it won't be).
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''I think part of the problem is owners are not aware''
There fixed that for you..:-)
You were aware and as someone with some nous to research took steps to make sure
a) that you maintained it as well as you could (pity the maker/dealers weren't as responsible)
b) that you covered your back side, and rightly so...i bet they called you some choice terms at the leasing co when you came off the phone*...well done though always nice to see someone who's a thorn in their sides.;)
Seems to me an increasing number of car owners couldn't find the bonnet pull without help, let alone make some common sense decisions and put a bit of effort into maintaining..and this is the bit that gets me...such an expensive part of their lives as their main transport.
*i've been privy to some one way phone discussions at one particular leasing and contract hire office in my previous job, indignation/incredularity expressed that a customer would expect anything better than the cheapest budget tyres available be fitted being just one example.
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>> *i've been privy to some one way phone discussions at one particular leasing and contract
>> hire office in my previous job, indignation/incredularity expressed that a customer would expect anything better
>> than the cheapest budget tyres available be fitted being just one example.
Only when the old ones were at the legal limit of course.
Dont know why people are surprised tho, lease costs are really low, profits have to be made somewhere.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 26 Feb 13 at 17:59
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Reading the handbook from day one made me realise I had to keep an eye on oil levels before I knew of problems. Being told there is a low, full and X mark on a dip stick and to watch for oil levels getting to X had my attention. But how many people read the handbook or even check oil levels?
The same lease company (we switched not long after I had the Mazda) was the same one that called me one day to ask if I still had my car. Well I was driving it when they called me! As it happens I was off to the town where they were based for work so popped in. Someone had taken a Mondeo somewhere to get it fixed - and claimed it was my lease/company car. Nothing ever came of it but I think it had been cloned.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 26 Feb 13 at 18:20
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There is no such thing as a new idea in lease car servicing.
In 1978 I took my brand new company car for servicing to a local indie - paid him in cash and claimed refund on expenses...........full service was under £100 for a BIG service.
10 years later the same company insisted that all cars be serviced at the franchises - Fords & Vx cars typically ran in the £200- £300+ and the MBs and BMWs £500+ was quite common for even interim service as they always found "extras" that required attention - brakes, disks, tyres, wipers.
My cars, bar one, went back in good nick and had been reliable in the 3 yrs 75k+ mileage but many were in a sad state which cost megabucks in refurb costs.
Probably the leasing company that now wants Indie servicing to save money are using the rational that high mileage car is worth little with or without a full franchise Service history.......saving £300-£400 per year on servicing is maybe a bigger saving that losing the value on the auctioned 3 year old car.
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In this case for a simple oil change, I can't see that an indie will produce any different a result to a franchised dealer. In order to preserve the warranty, they need to use a genuine BMW filter, and the correct grade and specification of engine oil. Their Autodata (or equivalent) manual will explain how to reset the computer etc. There won't be any diagnostics or special tools involved in the process either.
I know from experience that software updates on modern BMWs take 6-7 hours and are not routinely performed by dealers at service time. When my old E90 318i needed a software update (to cure a specific running problem), it was booked in separately for this to be done. The dealer at the time told me they would never do a software update at the same time as a service, as it simply takes too long. They also said that unless a software update came with instructions from BMW that it is imperative to install it to every car you see" (rare), they wouldn't even advise it.
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BMW - Lease companies using indies for servicing. - mikeyb
