Been thinking about the model designations used over the years and was wondering why nobody seems to badge their cars GLS any longer?
Thinking back to the '70s, you could buy a Ford Cortina L, GL, GLS or Ghia. I seem to recall that '80s Vauxhall Cavaliers had a similar lettering system, with the CD or SRi at the top of the pile. It was pretty straightforward to work out how far up 'the pecking order' each car was. BL seemed to favour L, HL and HLS for the Maestro and others.
Somewhere along the line, all this changed and I can't bring to mind any cars that can be purchased now as a GL or GLS.
A few other oddities:-
Peugeot in the '80s using different designations for the 205 depending on whether it was a 3 door or a 5 door (XL/GL, XLD/GLD etc.)
From memory, Citroen were one of the first to abandon letters in favour of names for the ZX. Who can recall the correct place in the model range for the Avantage, Furio, Volcane, Aura and Reflex?!
Things are pretty unclear in the current Peugeot 208 range, where nearly all of the designations start with 'A'. Who knows whether an Allure is higher up the range than an Active, or an Access and does the Feline come with a free furry friend?
One that used to amuse me was TDS on the back of diesel Astra's in the mid '90s. Probably was a lot more TeDiouS than a BMW 325 tds!!
So what's changed and what was wrong with a straightforward progression of letters for specification levels. Not aspirational enough?
Cheers
Moo
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They were there for bragging rights in the company car car park. at one time, everyone aspired to the "i"
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>> They were there for bragging rights in the company car car park. at one time,
>> everyone aspired to the "i"
>>
When I changed jobs in the 80's a very significant factor was going from an L to a GLi. :)
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>> everyone aspired to the "i"
>>
Plus ça change................
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Didn't the L, GL and so on originally stand for something (which I can't now remember)? Something along the lines of Luxe, Grand Luxe, Grand Luxe Saloon or some such I expect. Don't know about the other letter designations like CD though. And for a while if it said 320 on the back of a BMW it meant it had a 3.2 engine, but I'm not sure if even that holds true anymore.
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A friend had a mk2 Cavalier GLSi. It was, as far as we could tell, a GL with alloy wheels, a sunroof and different velour trim. The GL was, in turn, an L with a rev counter, electric mirrors and central locking. Going the other way, a CD was a GLSi with electric windows and power steering.
Given that all of this (with the exception of velour trim, thankfully) is standard on all models now, with almost universally standard air-con replacing the sunroof, you can effectively have one model replacing all four trim levels. For personalisation, we are directed to ever more extensive, and often frivolous, options lists.
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>> (with the exception of velour trim, thankfully)
And the vinyl roof. Don't forget the vinyl roof.
Oh and the "wood effect" plastic dash.........(horrors).
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>> >>
>>
>> Oh and the "wood effect" plastic dash.........(horrors).
>>
>>
Or this:
bringatrailer.com/2013/04/06/wood-option-1948-chevrolet-aerosedan-country-club/
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>> A friend had a mk2 Cavalier GLSi. It was, as far as we could tell,
>> a GL with alloy wheels, a sunroof and different velour trim. The GL was, in
>> turn, an L with a rev counter, electric mirrors and central locking. Going the other
>> way, a CD was a GLSi with electric windows and power steering.
>>
I remember a near riot when I got my very first company car - 3 of us started on the same day and the firm ordered 3 new Cavalier's. The 3 of us were handed a key each and that was our car. Mine and another had central locking but the 3rd one didn't. I honestly thought the guy who got it was going to cry!
Sunroofs (rooves?) arriving was a very big thing. The big manufacturers first started fitting them free to fleets before they became widely standard.
Then power steering - hauling Cavaliers around town on a hot day was hard work. Power steering was an utter revelation.
Then a/c - the firm I worked for at the time ordered it as an option on their cars so we were some way ahead of the game there.
>> Given that all of this (with the exception of velour trim, thankfully) is standard on
>> all models now, with almost universally standard air-con replacing the sunroof, you can effectively have
>> one model replacing all four trim levels. For personalisation, we are directed to ever more
>> extensive, and often frivolous, options lists.
>>
Even now basic cars tend not to have electrically adjustable and heated mirrors - one of our cars at home doesn't have them and they are missed. And rear electric windows are useful - if only because manual ones sometimes seem to be open a touch and it's a bit dodgy trying to reach them while driving!
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The 320d has electric mirrors, but they are not heated. That's part of some option pack which I didn't specify.
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>> I remember a near riot when I got my very first company car - 3
>> of us started on the same day and the firm ordered 3 new Cavalier's. The
>> 3 of us were handed a key each and that was our car. Mine and
>> another had central locking but the 3rd one didn't. I honestly thought the guy who
>> got it was going to cry!
Friend of mine had much the same experience in the same era; somehow he managed to wangle a Cavalier Li (fairly rare mix of basic trim and 1800 injection engine) when the company standard was the 1600L, and caused much friction with fellow reps.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 12 Apr 13 at 12:52
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>> if it said 320 on the back of a BMW it meant it had a 3.2 engine, but I'm not sure if even that holds true anymore.
It was never the case that 320 meant 3.2 litre engine. The 3 was the 3 series. The next two digits and some points in time have meant to represent engine capacity (2.0 litres) but that's not always the case these days. We've had 325's with 3.0 litre detuned engines, 328's with 2.8 and 3.0 litres before now and it's become a 2.0 turbo for the current model.
Mercedes's badging of 200, 220 and 250 for their diesels is down to power output because they all use a 2.1 litre engine.
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You're right, I'd forgotten the second two digits were nominally the engine size sort of maybe at one point, not all three digits.
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And a Volvo 244 was a Series 2, 4 Cyl, 4 Door IIRC.
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>> Who can recall the correct place in the model range for the
>> Avantage, Furio, Volcane, Aura and Reflex?!
I can. I had a 1.9 litre Volcane and a 1.8 litre Aura.
I'm pleased that my latest acquisition, a 182ps Focus Titanium X, just says Focus on the back. (Plus the dealer's badge which I'm hoping to remove!)
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Buy a Merc or a BMW-you pay extra for no badge.
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Most manufacturers offer debadging as a no-cost option.
Trust those two to have worked out a way of putting a price tag on nothing.....
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>> Buy a Merc or a BMW-you pay extra for no badge.
>>
Deleting the badge has never actually cost anything on the German manufacturers as long as I've been buying their cars - its always been a no cost option. One I've never bothered ticking I hasten to add, from the days of a non red 'I' A4 TDi (90bhp IIRC) to the current car. Those who know cars can tell anyway - there's usually something that gives it away - and those that don't don't care!!
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Aye indeed Peter. Can't remember where I first heard the saying but it pretty much sums up my attitude to most things in life really. "Those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Thu 11 Apr 13 at 19:51
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>> >> Who can recall the correct place in the model range for the
>> >> Avantage, Furio, Volcane, Aura and Reflex?!
Citroen ZX
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>> From memory, Citroen were one of the first to abandon letters in favour of names
>> for the ZX. Who can recall the correct place in the model range for the
>> Avantage, Furio, Volcane, Aura and Reflex?!
>>
Starting with the lowest trim the answer is:
Reflex, Avantage, Aura.
The Furio was semi-sporting, the Volcane was more sporting.
I had a Pizazz special edition, based on a Reflex with special trim, colour-coded bumpers, a sunroof and a stripe down the side! But it still had manual windows. Oh, the luxury! It had a non-turbo 1.9 XUD and was a great car for the money.
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Anyone remember the Popular Plus? What a blight that was on credibility!
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What a blast from the past this thread is!
Harking back to the days when cars came in colours such as "Slime Green" and "Hearing Aid Beige" (or if it was an Italian car, "Rust").
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Our first ' branny ' was a Citroen Visa Leader, 1986........'Leader' ???? What on earth could it lead ? Chipped it in for a BX 1600, nice car but steering too heavy for SWM.
Swapped that for a Prairie 1800 ' Anniversary ' special . Nice useful car, power steering but daft badging !
Jowett offered the Javelin in Standard or De-luxe. Naturally, as an English gentleman, mine is a De-luxe :-)...Standard models are a lot rarer, though.
Ted
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>>
>> Our first ' branny ' was a Citroen Visa Leader, 1986........'Leader' ???? What on earth
>> could it lead ? Chipped it in for a BX 1600, nice car but steering
>> too heavy for SWM.
>>
Not sure it was universal but Cit sometimes used the 'Leader' tag on revised models eg a change of engine types.
I nearly bought a BX Leader in around 87/8. In that case it was introducing the TU series 1.4 engine. A new unit with an end on gearbox replacing the XY(?) gearbox in sump series fitted to earlier models.
Wish I had actually is, having had one on loan, it drove better than the 1.6TRS I eventaully bought.
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>> Anyone remember the Popular Plus? What a blight that was on credibility!
>>
And the 'Merit'!
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Yes, I always thought the diesel version should have been the D Merit, not the Merit D...
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A mate of mine bought a 1989 MK3 Fiesta Popular Plus back in around 2001. We spent a good our going over it, but he couldn't work out where the Plus came from. The only features it had were what was required by law. I think we came to the conclusion that the plus meant it had a carpet. It didn't even have a clock it was that basic, and certainly no radio. I remember fitting the speakers in door cards, the wiring was helpfully in place.
An 1986 Vista would have been one of the last ones, there were loads on a C plate, one of my old teachers had one, and I wonder if that was actually Ted's as she lived two streets down.
I remember as a teenager trying to persuade my parents to buy a Punto SX rather than S, at the time my dad was like why I want electric windows etc, now he can't do without them.
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I think a Popular Plus gained a passenger wing mirror, dipping RVM, sun visor (or perhaps a vanity mirror on a sunvisor that existed) and perhaps a rear wiper? Im sure a 1989 Fiesta Pop would have come with carpet...
Is now the time to own up to always collect bags of brochures from Motor Shows when younger, and showing little or no discrimination. From Austin Rover to Yugo, a brochure was a brochure ;-)
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It had no rear wiper. It did have some cheap grey carpet, defo was a Ford fit, might have been optional though.
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>> I think a Popular Plus gained a passenger wing mirror
The Popular Plus had a heated rear window (vs. plain glass in the Pop), also cloth seats instead of vinyl. The L, the next model up the range, had front seats which reclined, whereas the Popular and Pop+ didn't. I'm pretty sure the Pop+ also came with halogen headlights over the Pop's tungsten versions.
>> Yes, I always thought the diesel version should have been the D Merit
A friend once had an Uno Start. That was basic, to say the least.
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You haven't been properly humiliated until you've been issued with a Chevette E with cross ply tyres.
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Back in the dark ages a certain very well known denim brand had 30 reps on the road in the UK. The company car fleet consisted of 28 white Cortinas, One blue Aston Martin and a yellow Skoda Estelle.
At the monthly sales meetings someone would get to take the Aston home and use it for the following month. Someone else would get to take the Skoda.
Apparently, it was not wise to "win" the Skoda twice...
A firm I worked for also ran Cortinas. Replaced with brand new ones every March 1st. One guy totalled his on the evening of March 1st about half a mile from head office in a pub car park... As he wasn't on a public road he managed to keep his licence...just. He was though subsequently issued with the then 5 year old, already rusting turquoise FIAT 127 which was kept kicking around the compound for just such eventualities...
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>> A firm I worked for also ran Cortinas. Replaced with brand new ones every March
>> 1st. One guy totalled his on the evening of March 1st about half a mile
>> from head office in a pub car park... As he wasn't on a public road
>> he managed to keep his licence...just. He was though subsequently issued with the then 5
>> year old, already rusting turquoise FIAT 127 which was kept kicking around the compound for
>> just such eventualities...
A chap I know worked for Rothmans in the 60s, and the regular chariots were Ford Zephyr estates, painted as per the fag packets. After a major accident in the early hours after drink had been taken and the car was written off, he was issued for 6 months or so with a Ford Thames van, also painted like the fag packets and with the addition of a big cigarette on the roof.
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>> You haven't been properly humiliated until you've been issued with a Chevette E with cross
>> ply tyres.
>>
What about infamous Maestro Clubman diesel? :)
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I had a Mini 850 automatic.
That truly *must* own the title of worst car ever.
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>> I had a Mini 850 automatic.
>>
>> That truly *must* own the title of worst car ever.
God yes.
My Aunt was given one when an older relative gave up driving. Like a dodgem car she said. Much preferred the Wolsely Hornet she had before.
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>> I had a Mini 850 automatic.
>>
>> That truly *must* own the title of worst car ever.
>>
My twenty-years old 1936 Wolseley 14 was much worse.
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Takes me back to that programme about the company cars with that bloke sulking about his Clubman. Made me a bit angry since my dad was driving a 6 year old Lada at the time. Compared to that a Maestro Clubman Diesel was a very good car.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Thu 11 Apr 13 at 23:28
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>>What about infamous Maestro Clubman diesel? :)
I bought one, my first diesel car. Nothing wrong with it. Phenomenal economy. The Perkins Prima engine was highly rated. VW gearbox that was as good as MK3 Cortina.
It cried out for power steering, but it was fine at anything above walking speed. The heater took ages to warm up, but that was a consequence of its economy.
You got used to following anything doing 50MPH as you couldn't overtake unless they went slower!
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>> Anyone remember the Popular Plus?
I bought an 1100cc Ford Escort Popular Plus in Daytona Yellow in 1976, and traded it in for a 1300cc Popular Plus in Signal Yellow in 1980. I remember that the seats were very comfortable and the cloth was a nice velvety material.
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>> Starting with the lowest trim the answer is:
>>
>> Reflex, Avantage, Aura.
>> The Furio was semi-sporting, the Volcane was more sporting.
>>
>> I had a Pizazz special edition, based on a Reflex with special trim, colour-coded bumpers,
>> a sunroof and a stripe down the side! But it still had manual windows. Oh,
>> the luxury! It had a non-turbo 1.9 XUD and was a great car for the
>> money.
>>
I had a ZX Dimension. No idea what model it was based upon, but sounds just like your Pizazz with electric windows. Actually a very good car and I would have one again
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>> I had a ZX Dimension. No idea what model it was based upon, but sounds
>> just like your Pizazz with electric windows. Actually a very good car and I would
>> have one again
There are still two or three ZXs in daily use in the village. We were Citroen heavy round here up to the eighties/nineties with Andre Baldet's Moto Baldet in town.
But still pretty good for something that was replaced around the K or L reg.
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My memory might be playing tickets but I think the ZXs were sold up to late 1996, on a P plate. It wasn't replaced until the Xsara, which was really just a facelift.
Still see plenty of 306s around here, but hardly any ZXs. See the odd Xantia. Most Saxos are wrapped round a lamp post now no doubt.
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>> My memory might be playing tickets but I think the ZXs were sold up to
>> late 1996, on a P plate. It wasn't replaced until the Xsara, which was really
>> just a facelift.
You're probably right Rats. As I posted it I thought I should check it but it's midnight and I couldn't be errrr bothered.
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>> Most Saxos are wrapped round a lamp post now no doubt.
>>
:-) :-)
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There's a ZX I've seen about locally for a good few years now with the same chap driving it. It's on a K plate, so will now be in its 20's. It has enough scuffs and minor battlescars to suggest it has been well used rather than mollycoddled, yet the visible bits of the bodywork are in remarkably good nick. This one is petrol, and still sounds pretty sweet too.
It's rather ironic that PSA Group cars were panned for their 'lightweight' build quality in the tests of the day, but they have seemed to have outlasted the contemporary, and supposedly "superior" Volkswagens, Fords and Vauxhalls in significantly greater numbers. The trim might have cost 49p, and started falling off in the first few hundred miles, but the bodyshells were clearly well rust-proofed, and the mechanicals clearly tough and dependable.
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Like FIAT, PSA were an early pioneer of galvanised body shells at a time when Ford were still making cars which were rusty the day they left the factory.
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Didn't really do FIAT much good though. The roads aren't exactly full of 10 year or older examples. I certainly can't remember the last time I saw a K reg one.
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Still see loads of MK1 Puntos round here. FIAT have always been very popular in Manchester though. The head gaskets killed most the MK1 puntos though as the cooling system wasn't as good as it should have been. Also they tend to be cheap and run as cheap cars, so miss servicing etc.
The FIRE engines and the bodyshells of FIATs will last a long time, it is the rest of the car which lets them down. The Panda seems to be lasting well though, but a power steering failure will probably send most the earlier ones to the scrap yard now the MOT rules have changed.
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Were Fiestas still that basic in 1989? My G-plate Escort Bonus 90 was based on the Popular or Popular Plus - not sure - but it had two door mirrors, both adjustable from the inside with levers (a minimal improvement over opening the window and moving the glass), a dipping interior mirror, FM radio, a clock, rear wiper, HRW and front intermittent. Basic but comfortable fabric seats and A-frame head restraints too. I think the only 'Bonus' extras were metallic paint (Matisse Blue on mine) and white dustbin-lid wheel covers. Great car - best I've had in terms of improvement on what went before, and I wish I'd kept it longer.
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Don't forget in those days the bigger the car the more toys you got, until the MK3 Fiesta, even the Ghia Fiesta had no central locking or electric windows. That Escort was the run out model too, as it was to be replaced by the MK5 so they would have upped the spec to try and compete with newer cars such as the Rover 200.
My mates Fiesta did have adjustable mirrors, but it had no radio, no glove box, no clock, no rear wiper. Actually I am thinking it might have had a basic FM radio, and the speakers just needed replacing as they were blown.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Fri 12 Apr 13 at 21:16
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Trust me, my Escort was never going to compete with the Rover 200, if you mean the hatchback one that doubled as the Honda Concerto. Although it did have the advantage that I could fit comfortably inside it, which wasn't the case with the Rover. And it was a better car than the Mk 4 (I'd call mine a Mk 3) Escort.
And those speakers didn't take much blowing - I put a Kenwood radio-cassette in mine and the speakers lasted about a month.
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We had one of the last Concerto 1.5i's as a second car. Built at Longbridge, Honda quality assured at Swindon. Absolutely no problems over the 3.5 years we owned it.
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ZX went all the way up to 98. Mine was a 96 model. Due to the unique way the company was funded mine only got serviced a coupe of times in the 18 months and 60K I had it.
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The Rover 200 of that generation was an awesome bit if kit. Mine was a 214Si - most passengers couldnt believe it was just a 1.4, but that K series engine was a lovely piece of kit. Just a shame it suffered from the head gasket issues as it was a fair way ahead of a lot of the competition
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In one of those coincidences that actually probably isn't, the commute home last night was partly behind a Popular Plus. Rusty bumper but otherwise not bad looking, that light blue colour, trickled along quite happily, dreadful reek of fuel. Registration began with A.
Looked titchy of course.
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One of the reasons that Standard-Triumph dropped the Standard name in the late 1950s was the confusion with the 'standard' model which Ford, Vauxhall and Austin / Morris produced and which was even more basic than the L model. Companies bought them for junior reps to make sure they aspired to greater things.
Standard models were conspicuous by the lack of chrome window surrounds, the vinyl seats and (surely the ultimate in penny-pinching) the lack of a passenger sun visor.
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Interesting these days how the list of options varies from one manufacturer to the next. This is possibly an over-simplification, but with a Kia (for example), the option list is very short and if a '1' spec car doesn't have cruise control and you really want CC, you've no choice but to opt for the next spec level up.
In comparison, with (say) BMW, you can add CC to a low spec car, if you don't want all of the bells and whistles (and cost) of the next spec level up.
As for all of the cusomisation options with the likes of a Mini, Fiat 500 or Vauxhall Adam, the sky really is the limit!
Interesting thinking back to how basic some of the low specs cars of the '70s and '80s were - vinyl seats, four-speed 'box, no HRW, no radio, one door mirror etc. Pretty much all the battery had to do was turn the starter motor over!
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>> Interesting thinking back to how basic some of the low specs cars of the '70s
>> and '80s were - vinyl seats, four-speed 'box, no HRW, no radio, one door mirror
>> etc. Pretty much all the battery had to do was turn the starter motor over!
>>
At least back then you could go on a 2week holiday, and your car would start on your return.
I know of some cars that with over 2 weeks standing become borderline starters...
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>>I know of some cars that with over 2 weeks standing become borderline starters...
Batteries are not powerful enough for modern cars with all their gadgetry, particularly, as you say, if not used for a couple of weeks, or if used infrequently.
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So what is drawing sufficient power to drain a battery over two weeks?
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>> So what is drawing sufficient power to drain a battery over two weeks?
>>
The multitude of control units...
The control units are constantly 'talking' to each other monitoring each other, waiting for an external input.
ie unlocking signal from a remote, alarm activation (broken window / excessive vehicle movement etc), pre-heating system being turned on etc etc etc....
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It would be useful to know which cars are borderline in this way. We've been going to South Africa most years for 2 to 3 weeks since 1999, and we've never had a problem with assorted VAG cars, Ford Kas, Minis or with my elderly Z3.
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But this is all just electronic stuff and surely it doesn't drain enough power from a great big car battery to flatten it in two weeks? Not doubting you but never personally known anyone with a modern car encounter this problem.
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Model designations - bring back GLS! - Zero
