To quoth HJ in this Saturday's Telegraph:
[Actually, the website doesn't have it so I'll paraphrase slightly]
"Can I keep the extended dealer warranty on my Hyundai (or other car with 3/5/7 etc year warranty) if I get it serviced outside the dealer network?"
HJ:- "Absolutely not. What do you take them for, idiots? Why should they keep a warranty when you get it serviced elsewhere and they don't know that's been done? Are you out to rip off car dealers? [insert usual comment about threatening small claims court action]"
Well, Mr John, I'm pleased to inform you that my Vauxhall has a lifetime warranty which remains valid even if I service it myself, provided I have receipts for the parts and fluids used. The only requirement is that it's checked over once a year (for free) at a Vx dealer.
So there. Put that in your hat and smoke it.
Last edited by: Fursty Ferret on Sat 13 Apr 13 at 14:48
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My understanding, such as it is, is that so long as the scheduled work is carried out and approved parts are used (with receipts) the warranty will be honoured.
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I would guess that there is a difference between the terms and conditions of a manufacturers warranty and the requirements of an extended dealers warranty. Is the Vauxhall lifetime warranty manufacturer funded/ underwritten? i cannot think that a dealer will be prepared to take the long term risk unless they built in a hefty insurance backed scheme in the sale price at the outset.
Last edited by: pmh on Sat 13 Apr 13 at 15:09
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I know that you are correct in what you have written FF & we have discuseed this so many times on here, however it never fails to amaze me that someone will spend 30k on a car then risk the warranty trying to save 50 quid a year on servicing. Also forget about any goodwill such as a courtesy car if you have gone outside of the manufacturers dealer network or any help after the warranty expires.
It reminds me of when I used to run a motor factors in the late 80's/early 90's and you would get some idiot on the phone who would spend all morning ringing around trying to save 50p on a Cortina oil filter !
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>> I know that you are correct in what you have written FF & we have
>> discuseed this so many times on here, however it never fails to amaze me that
>> someone will spend 30k on a car then risk the warranty trying to save 50
>> quid a year on servicing. Also forget about any goodwill such as a courtesy car
>>
Very true, but when the ESP hydraulic unit packed up on my BMW (a well known fault) the dealer with whom I bought the car and had a full service history wasn't interested. They refused point blank to even consider a contribution and had a minimum charge of £120 for diagnosis alone, + £200 for the part and another £250 for installation.
I politely told them to shove it and had it fixed at a BMW specialist for about £300 all in, and they did the diagnosis for free.
For that reason I scrubbed BMW from the list when I bought a new car, and wrote to BMW Head Office telling them why. Never received a reply, which simply ensured that the removal is permanent.
Not sure whether you reference me personally above but the point I was making is that I *could* service it myself. Almost certainly won't, however, since (a) I'm fundamentally lazy and (b) the dealer prices are pretty reasonable.
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>> >> Not sure whether you reference me personally above but the point I was making is
>> that I *could* service it myself. Almost certainly won't, however, since (a) I'm fundamentally lazy
>> and (b) the dealer prices are pretty reasonable.
>>
No I wasn't FF
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As I understand it by law they cannot make you use a franchise dealer, but you do have to prove that the service was done to the manufacturers exacting standards, and if you take it else where it can be hard to prove. There is also the issue of good will as well as already mentioned.
Not only is HJ wrong as far as I understand it, his reply was rather rude and patronising.
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>> Not only is HJ wrong as far as I understand it, his reply was rather
>> rude and patronising.
>>
Rattle, the question HJ was asked was about the Extended Dealer Warranty, not the manufacturers original one (as pmh pointed out). I believe that can be conditional.
HJ was rather blunt, but love him or loath him he tells it like he sees it and doesn't give you any flannel. A sort of motoring Alan Sugar.
Last edited by: Robin Regal on Sat 13 Apr 13 at 16:03
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If it is a dealer warranty then I suppose it can be different. Ford and FIATs third year warranty is a dealer warranty anyway.
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>> If it is a dealer warranty then I suppose it can be different. Ford and
>> FIATs third year warranty is a dealer warranty anyway.
>>
IIRC Ford only give 12 months warranty on their cars. The 2nd and 3rd year are covered by the dealer network. To many of us who have had the misfortune to own a Ford diesel, it will come as no surprise that they don't cover them for longer themselves !
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I've stopped reading HJ's column long ago. Far too much poor or plain factually incorrect advice plus a whole load of opinion and UK bashing. If it weren't for teh Saturday crossword I'd have given up on the Telegraph ages ago as well. Quite why they pay a layman to give 'expert' advice I'll never know.
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On the other hand i like his reviews and road tests, doesn't bother with the guff or waxing lyrical about soft plastics and sports car like handling.
Whilst he's not right on everything, and he does have some opinions i disagree with, he does talk a lot of basic sense about everyday matters, such as good servicing regimes not necessarily those cut to the bare minimum for the fleet market.
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Whilst I subscribe to finding alternative, value for money, sources of servicing or DIY and strictly speaking the letter of the law allows you to do that with certain conditions, what you are up against is the human/goodwill element.
If you are a regular servicing customer then it is in their interests to look after you for warranty work so that you remain a loyal customer. The first thing I have found is that they immediately check their database to ensure servicing has been completed as per schedule. If apparently not that is when the fun starts.
I'm all for an easy life and if the servicing prices are maybe a little extra then so be it. If you do not darken their doors then their co-operation is somewhat reluctant. The other issue is recalls. I took the Ceed in the other day for a warranty steering issue. They fitted tank support straps at the same time which was a recall item.
Last edited by: Fullchat on Sat 13 Apr 13 at 17:58
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>> On the other hand i like his reviews and road tests, doesn't bother with the
>> guff or waxing lyrical about soft plastics and sports car like handling.
>>
I like his car reviews too. He seems to focus more on how most of us use a car on a daily basis and not base everything on how it drives on a twisty B road.
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>> >> If it is a dealer warranty then I suppose it can be different. Ford
>> and
>> >> FIATs third year warranty is a dealer warranty anyway.
>> >>
>>
>> IIRC Ford only give 12 months warranty on their cars. The 2nd and 3rd year
>> are covered by the dealer network. To many of us who have had the misfortune
>> to own a Ford diesel, it will come as no surprise that they don't cover
>> them for longer themselves !
>>
I "think" that EU law changed a little while back and its now a minimum of 2 years manufacturers warranty, hence why Porsche and Smart still only offer 2 years
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It is only NEW car warranties that are covered under the EU block exemption legislation regarding servicing - ie manufacturers cannot force a buyer to have their car serviced by their official dealer network and cannot refuse to honour a new car warranty simply because a car has been serviced elsewhere.
This EU block exemption legislation does not apply to extended warranties.
Last edited by: Auristocrat on Sat 13 Apr 13 at 18:22
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>>I would guess that there is a difference between the terms and conditions of a manufacturers warranty and the requirements of an extended dealers warranty
Your rights are those protected by the SOGA, anything else is a contractual matter and protected and governed ONLY by that contract.
So, they can put any restrictions they want, subject to unfair terms etc, and whilst they do not affect your rights under the SOGA, with the rest they can do mostly as they wish.
Hence the often seen term "This does not affect your statutory rights".
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The real twaddle in today's ST was about cars at the end of the production line not having their wheel alignment set accurately.
If someone has so many paying readers, they do have a duty to check that what they write is at least fact based, and not simply the latest rumour / conspiracy which circulates in the retail motor trade.
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>> The real twaddle in today's ST was about cars at the end of the production
>> line not having their wheel alignment set accurately.
We had experience of this with a 2007 Mazda 2 (built by Ford at Valencia) we bought new. No indication that the wheel alignment was out, until the dealer said to us at the two year service that the front tyres needed replacing (at 10,800 miles). Had the tyres replaced and the alignment checked - according to the dealer the alignment was so far out it must have been like that when it left the factory.
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Had the tyres replaced and the alignment checked - according to the dealer the
>> alignment was so far out it must have been like that when it left the factory
As some of you know i used to deliver cars by transporter for many years.
At one time we always used underbody tie down points, IMO safest and best method used with barely an incident for many years, car clamped to vehicle deck almost becoming part of the structure, no vehicle movement to speak of once secured.
In recent times it became standard practice to use the alternative method of chocks and wheelstraps to secure vehicles to the lorry decks, in practice due to suspension and tyre movement these straps have to be really tight or the straps can and will work loose and slip off in transit, the wheelstrap goes round the circumference of the tyre and clamps the tyre down.
Standard practice depending on contractor and manufactur always has at least one strap securing the front wheels (may be two).
Obviously the wheel isn't going anywhere, but i often wondered if undue strain could be put on the steering and suspension by this practice during transit, incidentally it is the preferred securing practice of all companies and approved and in some cases demanded by makers, who now in most cases do not provide underbody tie downs any more, cost cutting may be part of the change.
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Auristocrat, I wonder if that was just a one off. I haven't read HJ column but I assume he is suggesting that they are cost cutting?
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Usually, wheel alignment is checked in an automatic end of line rolling road/non-contact testing machine which will measure, record the data, and flag up any errors in wheel alignment.
Although I'm sure there can be human errors in managing how out of tolerance vehicles are re-worked and re-checked, not to check and accurately align the suspension of cars being produced would make a complete mockery of the design and development work which goes into engineering and designing a suspension system.
Although in Auristocrat's case, there clearly was a problem, the garage can't claim the fault was there from the factory - it could have been damaged anywhere in its journey from Spain to the UK, or in its first miles on the road.
As an aside, I'm really very doubtful about most garages ability to check wheel alignment correctly and accurately. If I had Lud's money, it would be an interesting check to take a vehicle on round robbin test, pay for a sample of garages to check and report on wheel alignment, but, not to adjust. I suspect there would be some outrageous outliers in the resulting data.
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While this subject has cropped up, NC could a several weeks on flat tyres affect the tracking? Reason I ask; I had my tyres aligned after noticing wear much greater on one side. The garage adjusted them. At the same time new tyres on the rear and rears put on the front. I left the country for just over 2 months came back to some bad juddering took it to a different garage to find they needed adjusting again. Fine now.
Is it that hard a job to adjust the tracking?
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If a car has been standing for any appreciable time flat spots develop on the tyre, and this will result in a vibration when you run the car again. Usually, this vibration gradually goes away as the tyres warm up and are flexed back and forth many times.
>>Is it that hard a job to adjust the tracking?
If the steering and suspension were perfectly stiff, then, it would be much simpler.
One of the main sources of error is in correctly setting up the vehicle to remove any preload which deforms the rubber bushes in the system and can give rise to obvious errors.
Again, in this regard, coil spring failure is more common now than it used to be - as the fatigue cracks grow in the coil spring, the ride height will fall, and this will produce errors in the wheel alignment. Not many places are equipped to check ride height, and as a result, many alignment adjustments are curing the symptom, but not the fault.
Obviosly, accident damage can result in changes in wheel alignment as parts are plastically deformed. However, in "normal" use, suspension settings should not change - if the suspension really did plastically deform due to normal road bumps and loads, the fatigue life of steering and suspension members would be lamentably short.
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Just to clarify - I asked the Mazda dealer (where we had all our servicing done) at the time whether the issue could have been caused by potholes or similar, and the answer was an 'emphatic no - the tracking was too far out and equally so for both wheels'.
In our case it was a one-off. We've had 17 new cars - sixteen Japanese branded cars and one Korean - and this was the only one where we had such an issue. Apart from the Honda Concerto we had (very well built by Rover at Longbridge) the Mazda 2 was the only one not actually built by the Japanese/Korean manufacturer. Whether that's anything to do with it I don't know.
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HJ - extended warranties - Meldrew
