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Does an average speed limit really mean what it appears to mean - that you can drive at any speed you like as long as your average over the section does not exceed the figure indicated?
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Nice idea, but I can't help feeling that those cameras double as speed cameras and are sure to notice when you pass at 146mph.
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>> Nice idea, but I can't help feeling that those cameras double as speed cameras and
>> are sure to notice when you pass at 146mph.
>>
I doubt it. Those are ANPR systems and the average speed is calculated by matching the plates at the two points behind the scenes. They don't look like they have radar or lidar built in.
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>> Does an average speed limit really mean what it appears to mean - that you
>> can drive at any speed you like as long as your average over the section
>> does not exceed the figure indicated?
yes!
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>> can drive at any speed you like as long as your average over the section
>> does not exceed the figure indicated?
>>
Well, not legally. You'd still get done if a policeperson happened to catch you exceeding the fixed limit.
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Aside from the unlikely police person, there's nothing to stop you doing 180, pulling over for a coffee in the services, then doing 180 again then.
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>> Aside from the unlikely police person,
and the mimser in lane 1 doing 48mph, the mimser next door in lane 2 doing 48.5mph, and the mimser along side doing 49mph, a rolling road block the old bill would dream of completing with such ruthless efficiency.
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Doing 180 to make time for a tea break is a bit OTT even for the hooligan element of the C4P residents. :-)
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Actually, I wonder if anyone here has a car that will "do 180"?
I'm not sure mine can do 80....
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The Hindhead Tunnel on the A3 has average speed cameras, the road is a dual carriage with national speed limit (i.e. 70 for cars). The number of mimsers who slow down at the cameras and bumble along at 59 is amazing!
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>> The number of mimsers who slow down at the cameras and bumble along at 59 is amazing!
They don't just do that for the average speed cameras. I pass a pair of Truvelos on a NSL dual carriageway daily, and 80% of the time I get stuck behind a pair of parallel clots neither of whom know the car speed limit.
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While we're at Hindhead, what do we make of the - admittedly unusual - lane markings in the tunnel? To me, they're broken, crossable white lines, but plenty of the same clowns who don't know the speed limit (and, in my experience, do their mimsing at 49 rather than 59) seem to take them as a requirement to stay in lane - which is inevitably lane 2. So one ignorant certainty compounds another; makes it very difficult to achieve the goal of holding one's breath all the way through.
};---)
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>> While we're at Hindhead, what do we make of the - admittedly unusual - lane
>> markings in the tunnel? To me, they're broken, crossable white lines, but plenty of the
>> same clowns who don't know the speed limit (and, in my experience, do their mimsing
>> at 49 rather than 59) seem to take them as a requirement to stay in
>> lane - which is inevitably lane 2. So one ignorant certainty compounds another; makes it
>> very difficult to achieve the goal of holding one's breath all the way through.
>> };---)
Yes but a long angry blast on the horn sounds sooooooooooo good in the tunnel.
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>> While we're at Hindhead, what do we make of the - admittedly unusual - lane
>> markings in the tunnel? To me, they're broken, crossable white lines,
>>
Yes, I wasn't sure about them at first either (certainly haven't seen them in the Highway Code), but I agree with you that they are broken and therefore crossable.
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>> Yes, I wasn't sure about them at first either (certainly haven't seen them in the
>> Highway Code), but I agree with you that they are broken and therefore crossable.
I haven't seen the lines but does the Highway Code rule 130 apply?
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 9 Jul 13 at 12:43
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snipquote!
>> I haven't seen the lines but does the Highway Code rule 130 apply?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHHopkxIsyA
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 9 Jul 13 at 12:43
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>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHHopkxIsyA
>>
Looks like a solid line to me, OK it has cats eyes and they do not work too well with white paint over them. A little common sense required?
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>> >> www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHHopkxIsyA
>> >>
>>
>> Looks like a solid line to me, OK it has cats eyes and they do
>> not work too well with white paint over them. A little common sense required?
Misleading video, they are "lit" led types and work very well indeed.
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>> Misleading video, they are "lit" led types and work very well indeed.
>>
Obviously they work well, but would they with a solid white line painted over them?
The line is solid enough for me. It is certainly nearer solid than a hazard line, still in the pushy "Me first" South East who knows. :-)
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 9 Jul 13 at 13:57
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>> The line is solid enough for me.
>>
But if you look you will see that there is a cats-eye sized gap in the line mid-way between the cats-eyes. So not a solid line (unless the contractor was a tight-wad with the cats eyes). And there is no sign before or in the tunnel to indicate 'stay in lane'
Last edited by: Boxsterboy on Tue 9 Jul 13 at 13:16
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>> >> The line is solid enough for me.
>> >>
>>
>> But if you look you will see that there is a cats-eye sized gap in
>> the line mid-way between the cats-eyes. So not a solid line (unless the contractor was
>> a tight-wad with the cats eyes). And there is no sign before or in the
>> tunnel to indicate 'stay in lane'
>>
Stay in lane signs are not required. I would expect that the tunnel is monitored by CCTV and someone will spot a money making opportunity. Do your own thing, you will find out eventually, either nothing will happen (most likely) or a FPN will land on the mat. :-)
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>>Stay in lane signs are not required.
So, what are those lit up green arrows? I can't find them in the HC.
I don't see any purpose for a solid white line (which it is) other than to say stay in lane - otherwise, why not just a lane separator or hazard line?
It also makes complete sense - accidents in tunnels can be very nasty.
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>> So, what are those lit up green arrows? I can't find them in the HC.
>>
They indicate whether the lane is closed or not (when closed it shows a red cross) much like on an overhead gantry on a motorway.
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>> I wonder if anyone here has a car that will "do 180"?
I don't, but I load 'em on and off my lorry several times a week :)
The good bit about average cameras is that it's not an instant speeding ticket if you miss the first one. I was on an unfamiliar bit of motorway somewhere up towards Merseyside last week, I whistled past a yellow SPECS gantry at 56 and only then spotted the 50mph signs. Slowed down to 45 until I passed the next gantry, problem solved :)
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>> whistled past a yellow SPECS gantry at 56 and only then spotted the 50mph signs. Slowed down to 45 until I passed the next gantry, problem solved :)
I reckon you were exaggerating Dave. Surely a speedometer 55 is fine for a 50 limit? You hardly even needed to back off.
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An astonishing number of people don't know what the national speed limits are for each type of road.
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Or for each type of vehicle......
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I occasionally see our traffic plods having roadside discussions with drivers, it often seems to involve a van soon after the local motorway becomes an A road. :-)
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If the average speed limit is say 60, and the national limit of 60 still applies, then it's not really an average speed limit at all, and seems pointless.
I wasn't really thinking of doing 180, but legally checking say acceleration 70-90 might be useful or interesting. Also it would be handy to know it was legal to accelerate up to say 70 to overtake quickly someone doing 55 in the slow lane.
On the other hand it seems an odd anomally that there is apparently a mechanism for suspending all the normal national speed limits, especially so in circumstances where there is a need for some form of speed restriction - tunnel, roads works, etc.
Has this aspect ever been clarified, or tested in court?
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Also it would be handy to know it was legal to accelerate up to say 70 to overtake quickly someone doing 55 in the slow lane.
It isn't. But it might escape the notice of the means of enforcement, just as it might on a rural single carriageway. Don't confuse the enforcement mechanism with the legal limit; it's not an average speed limit, it's an average speed check.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Tue 9 Jul 13 at 09:26
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There's an original section of the A66 which is now (mostly) dual carriageway west in the top of Cumbria with a 50 average on the section.
As many will know the last couple of hundred yards is "interesting" and slows most down a bit
(forwards from this part on the map (optionally in 3D, if you've got the glasses))
goo.gl/maps/A8d9b
but the first section is ideal for hopping past slower traffic - surely 70 on the first part is legal (and sensible), provided you can keep the average <50-ish.
Last edited by: AnotherJohnH on Tue 9 Jul 13 at 11:12
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Are you saying that there is a bit of road with two speed limits - an ordinary NSL one, and an average 50 one?
That might test the magistrates.
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>> Are you saying that there is a bit of road with two speed limits -
>> an ordinary NSL one, and an average 50 one?
Until they changed it, I knew a road that had a 40 mph limit in one direction and NSL in the other. Traffic entering from a side road (NSL) had no restriction signed turning either way.
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My favourite layby is on the lower eastbound section, by the lake, after delivering to Caterite at Emberton!
Happy days.
Pat
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>> There's an original section of the A66 which is now (mostly) dual carriageway west in
>> the top of Cumbria with a 50 average on the section.
>>
>> As many will know the last couple of hundred yards is "interesting" and slows most
>> down a bit
>> (forwards from this part on the map (optionally in 3D, if you've got the glasses))
>>
>> goo.gl/maps/A8d9b
>>
>> but the first section is ideal for hopping past slower traffic - surely 70 on
>> the first part is legal (and sensible), provided you can keep the average <50-ish.
Several sections of that road were dualled by simple expedient of building one new carriageway. The other follows an old alignment with bends and poor sightlines. OK if you know exactly where you are and what you're doing but potentially lethal.
About 23 years ago we had a reservation at Ennerdale YH but after being jammed on M6 we didn't make Keswick until 18:45. Rang warden to advise lateness and she told us we'd not get there for our dinner at 19:30. We arrived just as the soup was being cleared.
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>> ....we didn't make Keswick until 18:45. Rang warden to advise lateness and she told us we'd not get there
>> for our dinner at 19:30. We arrived just as the soup was being cleared.
You've been pedalling quite hard then - it's about a gentle hour to Whitehaven, ISTR.
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>> You've been pedalling quite hard then - it's about a gentle hour to Whitehaven, ISTR.
In a BX on that occasion.
Fell walking trip; biking over Black Sail Pass is an unnatural act!!
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>>> it's about a gentle hour to Whitehaven, ISTR<<<
...and that's in a loaded lorry!
Pat
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>> Surely a speedometer 55 is fine for a 50 limit?
Calibrated tachograph/speedometer unit. An indicated 56mph = GPS speed of 56mph. I would think the "nick" threshold on motorways will be set below that figure, otherwise lorries would all keep going up against their limiters. 53mph always worked for me when they were widening the M1 at Luton.
Never had a ticket for crossing the white lines at Hindhead, I treat them as elongated "hazard" lines but not uncrossable.
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>> "nick" threshold on motorways will be set below that figure, otherwise lorries would all keep
>> going up against their limiters. 53mph always worked for me when they were widening the
>> M1 at Luton.
>>
>> Never had a ticket for crossing the white lines at Hindhead, I treat them as
>> elongated "hazard" lines but not uncrossable.
Go through average speed cameras at a GPS 56mph in a 50 not got a tug yet.
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>> Go through average speed cameras at a GPS 56mph in a 50 not got a tug yet.
Sterling work.
Do let us know where the threshold is, when you find out.
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>> Do let us know where the threshold is, when you find out.
>>
Self inflicted stress, a bit like the low fuel light gamblers.
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>> Self inflicted stress, a bit like the low fuel light gamblers.
I suppose it's probable Z is yanking everyone's chain, waiting for the post "I was only doing GPS indicated 56mph, and Z said it was OK.."
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>> >> Do let us know where the threshold is, when you find out.
>> >>
>>
>> Self inflicted stress, a bit like the low fuel light gamblers.
Some of us are capable at driving at a set speed. We all know you are out of your comfort zone above 30 knots.
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My threshold is 56mph. No idea where yours is. I may have cocked up in the roadworks on the A23 tho. That zone is 40.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 9 Jul 13 at 17:35
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>>Some of us are capable at driving at a set speed
>>My threshold is 56mph
Yeah I've noticed that with old blokes in Jap cars before right enough.
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>> Go through average speed cameras at a GPS 56mph in a 50 not got a
>> tug yet.
Sounds about right.
If you aim to stick at 56, I suppose your average between the cameras might even be a tad less.
It's obviously not as risky as going through a single point camera at 56, when you could go slightly over at just the wrong moment.
The only real problem is if they suddenly have a zero tolerance day.
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My otherwise useless TT Go Live knows when I am in an average speed zone and tells me what speed I am averaging; apart from that it is heap of junk.
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50 mph average on the M4 / M5 interchange while they make it a managed motorway.
BBC asked for some stats and I take my hat off to the chap that managed 137 average. Never been through there when its been quiet enough to have no traffic in the outside lane so I'm guessing he must have topped out at well over 137 at points
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-23006599
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>> Aside from the unlikely police person, there's nothing to stop you doing 180, pulling over
>> for a coffee in the services, then doing 180 again then.
>>
I should be so lucky!
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I don't know why they don't put these cameras on more roads. Much more effective than 10 meters of having to drive at 30. Not complaining, of course. I wish there were none most times!
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We drive up the A614 in North Notts every few weeks, it is a wide single carriageway in the countryside. The limit has just been lowered to a rediculous 50 from 60 due to the actions of a car full of teenage joyriders a couple of years ago.
I have found that if I set the on board computer to avergae speed and reset it at every camera, it shows just how much most people are mimsing. The average mimse is quite high between cameras, so one can see one's average is say 46mph and go for a few overtakes while keeping check of the average. There is one uphile stretch from White Post roundabout with a crawler lane where you can really hoon it and stray under the magically safe 50.
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>> it shows just how much most people are mimsing.
They are obviously going to mimse much more under "average speed checks" rather than the ordinary limit because by its nature you don't know what your running average is.
So cautious people will inevitably under-speed in order to compensate for what they fear might be their unintentional over-speeds.
Presumably that is the intention - uncertainly induces caution.
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Average speed checks - Armel Coussine
