One of those ugly as sin popemobiles based loosely on the Fiat 500 was approaching me on the opposite side of a roundabout, i was going straight over in the lorry and the Fiat wasn't indicating or so i thought but by road positioning and speed i thought it was right turner so waited.
Sure enough as the angle of the car changed the front indicator buried deep in the recesses of the headlight finally showed up, in sunny conditions almost impossible to see unless from directly in front and the silly little side repeater might as well go in the skip.
I know we've had these discussions before but this problem is getting worse, i wonder how many accidents are caused even indirectly by silly bling light designs with bulbs buried deep behind chromed reflectors and several layers of shiny clear plastic.
Thats about 4 of those Fiat things i've seen now, not getting prettier with repeated viewings either.
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I think it's a minor problem compared with the number of drivers who don't indicate at all, or indicate incorrectly.
Basically you can't take any indication, or lack of, as meaning anything, and certainly should never be tempted to pull out on the assumption that a vehicle is going to turn as indicating.
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Quite right CP. But it's true that some indicators are very feeble, and it doesn't help.
I assume GB was sitting high in a lorry cab. Perhaps the indicators he complains of would have been more visible from car driver level.
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>> Quite right CP. But it's true that some indicators are very feeble, and it doesn't
>> help.
>>
>> I assume GB was sitting high in a lorry cab. Perhaps the indicators he complains
>> of would have been more visible from car driver level.
>>
Perhaps; but GB is right, they're a triumph of style over function. I'm blessed if I know how some of them manage to pass type approval, they obviously don't test it in "real" conditions.
A few years ago there was a lot of fuss made over the prevalent fashion for everything appearing black, with a similar outcome where visibility of lights was concerned. You'd think they'd learn.
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>> I assume GB was sitting high in a lorry cab. Perhaps the indicators he complains
>> of would have been more visible from car driver level.
The roundabout in question is sizeable so that didn't come into it too much, however you'd think that a designer worth their salt would be making sure their cars don't connect with lorries which tend to be able to take less evasive action in the first place and best avoided at all for a long healthy life.
HM's valid point about type approval has bugged me over many cars (and lorries), some things should have been slung out before going anywhere near a road...automated manual gearboxes among them..;)
Road positioning thats a bad joke these days, you'd be better off consulting a crystal ball.
edit, Navy i followed a bloke jammed right up the back of them trying to overtake three lorries, trying to see round them on a long left hand curve (over about a mile), i hung back looking up the inside and after checking long enough to clear anything hidden by the lorries as the curve got slightly better nipped past the lot...as i leftthem he still couldn't be seen so obviously still didn't get it.
I wonder if you could ever teach people like that.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Sun 28 Jul 13 at 13:24
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>> I think it's a minor problem compared with the number of drivers who don't indicate
>> at all, or indicate incorrectly.
>>
>> Basically you can't take any indication, or lack of, as meaning anything, and certainly should
>> never be tempted to pull out on the assumption that a vehicle is going to
>> turn as indicating.
>>
Which is why there's a school of thought that it might be better if drivers don't indicate at all.
Road positioning should give a clue to most drivers intentions, as the OP noted, however that's probably even more unrealiable than indicators themselves.
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>> Road positioning should give a clue to most drivers intentions, as the OP noted, however
>> that's probably even more unrealiable than indicators themselves.
>>
I'll second that, the vast majority of drivers have never heard of positioning, let alone use it. How often is progress blocked by poor positioning at junctions or tailgaters who can't see to carry out the overtake they are so keen on.
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>> Road positioning should give a clue to most drivers intentions, as the OP noted, however
>> that's probably even more unrealiable than indicators themselves.
>>
Don't rely on that in CZ! Standard way of taking a roundabout there is to head for the next exit and turn left, negotiating the roundabout in a series of straight lines and sharp turns (squareabout??). Couple that with the fact that indicators are used to indicate which direction the driver is about to turn the steering wheel.
End result is that everything indicates right on arrival at a roundabout, heads for the first exit, then changes indicators[1] and turns left at the last moment. Very unfunny.
[1] If you're lucky. Some of 'em just let the self-cancelling sort it all out.
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>> Thats about 4 of those Fiat things i've seen now, not getting prettier with repeated
>> viewings either.
I'd have thought you would have covered your eyes and waited till it passed. They are by any measure, the most disgustingly proportioned car imaginable. The first time I saw one I went slack jawed and open mouthed in complete horror.
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I was impressed to see a Jag shut off the "on-side" LED running light to allow to the indicator to be clearly seen.
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Audis and Range Rovers do it as well
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>> Audis and Range Rovers do it as well
>>
>>
Ah, that would explain why I've never seen it!
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Maybe mistaken but I've yet to see Beemer with blingy LEDs - but we don't use them either.
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Fiat do have form for ugly cars, remember the Multipla?
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>> Fiat do have form for ugly cars, remember the Multipla?
>>
Heathen.
That was the best looking MPV ever made.
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>> Heathen.
>> That was the best looking MPV ever made.
Heh heh... tastes do differ enormously. I am having difficulty recalling the Fiat mentioned in the OP... like a Popemobile? Perhaps I've never seen one. Is there an available image?
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Ugly as sin cars have one great advantage for non owners.
They indicate the driver/owner has no taste or style and is best avoided.
:-)
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This is the gem...those easily offended should look away now...
www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/fiat/500l-2013/
or for more lovely pics...
www.honestjohn.co.uk/road-tests/fiat/fiat-500l-2013-road-test//
go on Z click it, you know you want a new screen on your 'puter..;)
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Sun 28 Jul 13 at 14:30
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I have had this recently with a Citroen C4.The indicator was directly below the daytime running lights and was only a narrow line of yellow.The drl did not dim so the indicator signal was virtually wiped out by the brighter drl.
So far it seems to be new Citroen's that are the worst for this design flaw.
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Thanks gb. It is indeed a gauche looking thing, like a fat little girl with a pretentious pushy mum in her party clothes. Meant to be practical though, and may be so.
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TBH - you only get the full horror effect on the road.
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>> TBH - you only get the full horror effect on the road.
>>
Yes, soon as i saw it i thought intially it might be some lunatics customised Yaris Verso.
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The Multipla is style personified.
Virtually every other MPV looks like it was modeled on a breeze block and designed by a bloke called Eric who lives with his mum and has never had a girlfriend.
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Oh no, according to HJ that 500l thing is going to spawn a sibling called 500X, sort of competiton for the MINI soft roader peoples liberation army personell carrier whatsit.
Will Fiat will be intergrating roof bars with empbedded spotlights for a bit of dodgy lamping in the wee smalls.
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>> The Multipla is style personified.
Is that RR speak for ugly, with a capital UGG?
>> Virtually every other MPV looks like it was modeled on a breeze block and designed
>> by a bloke called Eric who lives with his mum and has never had a
>> girlfriend.
I can allow the Multipla some roadspace to be honest. The guy who styled it clearly had no pretence, no interest in style. He sat down and he said. I want it do xxx and yyyy and I dont give a turd what it looks like. you have to admire that.
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Tell yer what about those Multiplas they were a nightmare to load in reverse, the rear track is much narrower than the front, when reversing up a transporter deck you mostly watch where the wheels are going to guide you centrally, do that with a Multi and you'll drive straight off the side, had to ignore the wheels and only go by the rear quarter, very disconcerting.
Worse car ever (apart from armoured with non opening windows) though was first gen Audi TT, you can't get your head out those arrow slit windows far enough to see any wheel, nightmare.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Sun 28 Jul 13 at 15:25
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>> Worse car ever (apart from armoured with non opening windows) though was first gen Audi TT,
>> you can't get your head out those arrow slit windows far enough to see any wheel, nightmare.
Add the Merc SLS AMG to that list. Luckily I load everything forwards except 911s.
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>> www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/fiat/multipla-2000/
>>
Absolutely ghastly car. It looks as if one car has been welded on top of another, but the upper one is slightly smaller than the bottom.
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I'm with the pro's on this. Absolutely ghastly looking, but did a wonderful job as it was designed to.
I can't believe Zeddo also approved!
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This was actually going to be the next in my USA motoring questions - the pros and cons of the flashing red indicator light rather than amber.
I personally preferred it once I got used to it - I think in general I would have preferred the ambers from maybe 10 years ago or so but as GB says, the fashion now is all about integrating.
VAG cars in particular, thinking Altea, Golf Plus, last model Passats etc had a tendency to have the rear indicator within a circular brake light cluster that it just totally disappeared once the brakes came on.
Anyone remember the rear parcel shelf lighting systems of the 70s - the bar across the back window with the indicators and brake light (long before third brake lights became the norm).
Bet you Zero had them on his Capri........
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>> This was actually going to be the next in my USA motoring questions - the
>> pros and cons of the flashing red indicator light rather than amber.
>>
>> I personally preferred it once I got used to it...
You obviously didn't drive on a dark wet night in urban traffic. "Is that flash of red a brake light or indicator?" might cross your mind a few times.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 29 Jul 13 at 07:52
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>> You obviously didn't drive on a dark wet night in urban traffic. "Is that flash
>> of red a brake light or indicator?" might cross your mind a few times.
Its a similar situation with lorries.
I'm sure most of us here are old enough to remember when the side marker lights on artic trailers were white front red rear, often split two colour lenses with one central bulb.
For some unknown reason (EU compatability?) that was dropped about twenty years ago along with other good sensible British designs, and all side markers lights and there are a lot are now amber.
So an amber light blinks, its one of a dozen or more so goes unnoticed, whereas before it could only have been an indicator flash and nothing else, plus the bulbs were behind 1 layer of one colour plastic or glass, sun glinting didn't affect them, far safer for all concerned.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Mon 29 Jul 13 at 08:08
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I drove through the transition from red/white to amber markers on trucks. First truck I saw with amber markers I slowed and flashed as I thought he was indicating.
Absolutely silly idea IMHO
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>> You obviously didn't drive on a dark wet night in urban traffic. "Is that flash
>> of red a brake light or indicator?" might cross your mind a few times.
>>
Very late EDIT.
If I remember correctly the high level or centre brake light was originally introduced by the Americans because of the red brake light and indicators causing many rear end collisions.
I have driven in the USA both before and after the centre brake lights were introduced, and red indicators are not a good idea especially when they are multiple sequential ones or ones the turn the rear light off to flash them, (I have seen both).
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 29 Jul 13 at 09:29
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Her next door has a silver Multipla....so I have to look at one every day.
To be fair, she has three small kids and is also a child minder so I guess it's a good motor for her. It seems to swallow up everything offered to it.
I've always had a fondness for odd and bizarre looking things...........you should see the wife !
Ted
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>> I've always had a fondness for odd and bizarre looking things...........you should see the wife
>> !
>>
>> Ted
>>
Can we take it she's not a registered user of this forum? ;-)
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>> Can we take it she's not a registered user of this forum? ;-)
>>
Agreed, no one is that brave, chickens don't vote for Christmas, forum members don't vote to sleep in the shed.
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Useless indicators breeding - Cliff Pope
