Dear Team,
The van (Renault Master) has served me well. It has just had a service and the Crankshaft Dampening Pulley replaced along with the belt etc. My Mechanic announced that all was fine and apart from the odd bodywork dent it was in rude health for a 120k miler. I even had a bit of bodywork tarted up and then spent a day with the Farecla G3 cutting the grime back. Rude health eh! Last Friday parked at a customer’s house up a very steep drive (rear uppermost!) I jumped in to leave at 5.00 and no go. Turning over fine but not firing. I foolishy blamed the jaunty angle! I called out the RAC who arrived 3 hours later. I tried again to start it but to no avail. The chap laid under the front and got me to switch the ignition on and off because he guessed that the fuel pump in the tank could be playing up and said that often a good firm tap would sort it as a get you home measure. Well he didn’t tap it cos it started there and then. I made my way home and he followed me to make sure I got there. The following morning (Saturday) it wouldn’t start. I then left the ignition on for 5 minutes and tried again. It started!. I left it then for the weekend.
Tuesday it was booked in to see my mechanic and it wouldn’t start. In very quick succession I turned the ignition on and off perhaps eight times and low and behold it fired up. I got it to the Garage where it totally refused to misbehave all through Tuesday and today. Diagnostics have revealed the usual Glow plug fault (not actually required on a Common Rail Diesel) so therefore ignored, and nothing else. Thoughts of Crankshaft and Cam position sensors have been dismissed as I've been down that road before. A leak back test on the injectors has showed 3 of them as faulty (only refurbed 2 years ago) but the mechanic says that that may still not be the cause of the failure to start. I noticed however that the cranking time before firing is extended. The next thing is to have the injectors tested (£150) and then refurbed at £150.00 each………….Ouch!!...but may still not be the cause of the problem so that would be close to a grand possibly down the pan.
I am reluctant to part with the old girl as I've owned her from new and the interior (back) is set out exactly to my liking for work. Sadly I seem to be attached to the metal. I’m in a bit of a dilemma as to what to do, whether to throw money at it or not. Work is in very short supply and to upgrade now hasn’t been planned for financially.
What does the panel think?
Regards....Hobgoblin.
|
Secondhand engine with all the bits?
|
|
Such short warranties though Sir.
|
Oh you're correct, naff all warranties, but the odds are in your favour if you buy well.
And at least then you'd have two of everything.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 14 Aug 13 at 18:34
|
|
Is there a diesel specialist in your area? They are usually Bosch, Delphi, Siemens, Denso, and Delco Remy agents.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 14 Aug 13 at 18:45
|
|
I am of the opinion that today Sir everyone is a Specialist...........................that is until you wish them 'to stand' behind their product or service.
|
|
Thankfully Sir I still have two of everything that matters.
|
>> Thankfully Sir I still have two of everything that matters.
popular with the ladies??
|
|
I am glad there was only one 'd' in there.
|
>> I still have two of everything that matters.
I am in awe.
|
only two teeth?
so has it gone wrong in front of one of your trusty mechs? It could be something quite cheap and simple,
|
|
Go on then. Tell me more oh! doubtful one.
|
>> so has it gone wrong in front of one of your trusty mechs? It could
>> be something quite cheap and simple,
>>
The mate who is a mechanic is bound to have all the right diagnostic equipment and knowledge. :-)
|
|
any advance on the switch itself being worn/intermittent?
|
|
I'll raise you a faulty fuel pump relay.
|
>> I'll raise you a faulty fuel pump relay.
>>
More please although I think that this has been mentioned, but more please as aforementioned, neighbour!!
|
Has it got a hand primer pump, if so is there fuel available when it won't start.
One other simple thing springs to mind, is the stop solenoid on the pump intermittent...indeed does the pump have such a thing that could be by-passed or removed from the equation completely for temporary testing.
|
>> Has it got a hand primer pump, if so is there fuel available when it
>> won't start.
Hello GB. The trouble is it starts now although lazily.
When the RAC came out I had already pressed the button on the bulkhead that clicks out in the event of an accident or occasionally in a low speed stall which is designed to stop the fuel flow. It clicked which seemed unusual but still it would not start. When the RAC arrived he tried it and it clicked in again.
>>
>> One other simple thing springs to mind, is the stop solenoid on the pump intermittent...indeed
>> does the pump have such a thing that could be by-passed or removed from the
>> equation completely for temporary testing.
I will enquire in the next day or two. Thanks as always the voice of reason. M.
>>
|
|
Have you picked up crap fuel? fuel filter?
|
|
Running as clean as a whistle.
|
|
well the thing has run since my last post without fault, in fact the starting has improved and is back to its old self. The firing times had doubled after the non start incident. However last night it once again refused to start. I turned it over a few times then left it for five minutes. It then started as normal. What this morning brings who knows? My gut feeling = no start.
|
|
Pound to a pinch of mustard it's the immobiliser thingy - intermittent fault.
|
|
28 YO. Top Techie for Puegeot. Keen, calm, thinks outside the box and a legitimate business. He is a 'Mate' cos I've known him for a very long time. 'Mate' of the orfsprings. Big confidence in him. Anything else oh! wise one? (0:-:0)
|
>> Anything else oh! wise one? (0:-:0)
>>
Just a gentle prod to get you to consider the options. :-)
It sometimes pays to rent a real expert.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 14 Aug 13 at 19:43
|
|
Please refer to the above. (0:-:0)
|
|
Is (0:-:0) supposed to mean something or have you broken your keyboard as well as your van?
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 14 Aug 13 at 20:18
|
>> Is (0:-:0) supposed to mean something or have you broken your keyboard as well as
>> your van?
>>
Yes Sir. It means you are wide eyed and would make a good train driver.
|
>>The next thing is to have the injectors tested
Yeas, and then, I would suggest that the next thing after correcting the fault with the injectors would be to check the intermediate (directly using a gauge) and the rail pressures (indirectly using the rail pressure sensor - checking the sensor too) while cranking.
As you probably know, if the pressure in the rail, as reported by the sensor, isn't in tolerance, the injectors are not energised by the ECU. There is no shut off solenoid.
|
|
I find it surprising how many people don't realise that a common rail diesel is a totally different beast to the injection pump system and even that there is no pump timing.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 14 Aug 13 at 20:24
|
This is worth watching - for anyone contemplating DIY work;
www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTXqBrouUl4
I think it may go some way to explaining a lot of the bother people have had with common rail. Garages haven't really got to grips with the differences between traditional and common rail diesels.
Frank Massey has a very good reputation - when I was still in civilisation, I would go to his automotive diagnostics evening lectures he gave to the local branch of the IMI.
|
>>Crankshaft Dampening Pulley replaced
Is that keyed onto the crank, or just a taper fit?
If the latter, could it have slipped and moved the camshaft and pump timing (I assume the camshaft is belt driven).
Whenever something goes wrong I always look at what was last done, even more so if was recent.
|
Is it like the PSA HDi engine with two pumps?
One to lift the fuel out of the tank and load another another much more sophisticated item to deliver it under pressure to the injectors?
With an intermittent fault like that I'd be looking at the lift pump first - had same issue with my Xantia.
|
|
THAT is exactly what the RAC man said. However when he lay beneath said beast listening for the Whirr he said it was going fine. He also added that some French 'cars' have this and seemed none too impressed.
Last edited by: MD on Wed 14 Aug 13 at 21:17
|
|
Don't ask me how I know this crap - but this have a habit of frying the immobiliser receiver ring (around the ignition keyway) this leads to a failure to communicate with the chip in the key - this can lead to an occasional failure to fire up and frustratingly it will work at other times - usually when they're being diagnosed.
|
Noted, as is most of the info' here. Thanks.
The HUGE problem of course is getting 'it', whatever that may be, diagnosed. The £££'s run away, often to no avail.
|
Air getting into the low pressure piping.
Quite common problem.
Prevents starting, but once it gets bled out, will run... then left for a while air gets back in the system...
Any sign of fuel leakage? (although air sometimes gets in without fuel getting out....)
|
|
I hope I'm not speaking too soon, but it didn't put a foot wrong yesterday.
|
>> I hope I'm not speaking too soon, but it didn't put a foot wrong yesterday.
>>
It's a renault. Programmed to go wrong on wet cold nights..
|
|
Thankfully we don't get any rain in Devon :)
|
|
Not true. Lashed down with rain in Plymouth week last Sunday evening. Being a soft Northerner we decided to B & B rather than walk 5 miles and wild camp in some farmers field along the coast. I'll never live it down.
|
And of course the Beer's a tad better darn 'ere too.
The last time I 'Wild Camped' was in circa 1970 around Pirbright or Colchester iirc stood upright all night in the sissing rain shouldering a .303. Not bad for a 13/14 year old. I and my mates did enjoy it though, behaved too, well disciplined, poorly fed, Huge grins. I would give everything to go back to those times, Priceless.
Nostalgia ain't what is used to be.............
|
The beer is woefully expensive on the coast, and is served flat. I detoxed for 7 days with the exception of Yealm Yacht Club whilst camping at Newton Ferrers. Cheapish beer and good value food on a Monday night....well, better than a melting Chunky KK in the tent for your evening meal.
A grand friendly spot if anyone is in the area SE of Plymouth...just check opening times.
|
It's a Renault... and you're contemplating spending money on diagnosing electronics?!
Sell it; hope the buyer turns up on a day when it starts OK (nobody in their right mind would buy an old Renault anyway owing to legion electrical faults*, so no need to feel guilty on that account) and buy yourself a Transit.
_______________________________
* been there, done that
|
>> Sell it; hope the buyer turns up on a day when it starts OK (nobody
>> in their right mind would buy an old Renault anyway owing to legion electrical faults*,
>> so no need to feel guilty on that account) and buy yourself a Transit.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________
>>
>> * been there, done that
Clearly you are not of right mind, no-one in command of their senses says they will still use a garage that leaves sump plugs undone......
|
>>
>> >> Sell it; hope the buyer turns up on a day when it starts OK
>> (nobody
>> >> in their right mind would buy an old Renault anyway owing to legion electrical
>> faults*,
>> >> so no need to feel guilty on that account) and buy yourself a Transit.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________
>> >>
>> >> * been there, done that
>>
>> Clearly you are not of right mind, no-one in command of their senses says they
>> will still use a garage that leaves sump plugs undone......
Sorry edit, having re-read the thread, taking it back to a garage that overtightens the sump plug cracking the sump, and leaving the shield off.
|
Transits are being seriously welded at 6 yo. They were great. They are now a p.o.s. Don't confuse Renault vans avec Renault cars.
It 'may' turn out to be a sticking EGR valve. Watch this space.................
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
He says...........................hopefully....
|
|
They share a lot with vx vans don't they? We've got them at work, seem ok apart from the seats, right through to the foam at 20,000 on all of them and the doors seem to need a running slam to get them to lock.
|
Renault Master - Woe is me.... - No FM2R
