Bit annoyed. Turns out my car was stolen and recovered in 2012 so a couple of quick questions.
1. Is the dealer obliged to declare that the car was stolen/recovered?
2. Is the dealer obliged to know it was, ie what level of checks are available to them?
I went into the police station and asked - they couldnt give me details, only so far as to say that it was recovered and returned to the original owner, there is nothing on their system about my car anymore and I am the legal owner.
|
|
Would a HPI check prior to purchase have indicated as such?
|
>>Would a HPI check prior to purchase have indicated as such?<<
Apparently not, I saw the HPI check was clear when I bought it. The one the Kia dealer did was wrong as it hadnt cleared the flag from my car after it was recovered.
|
|
Best (uninformed guess) is 1. No, not unless you ask and 2, Maybe and not obliged to give you the results unless you ask, see 1. Is this sort of thing covered by an HPI check, whether done by you or the dealer? Stolen/recovered would presumably not involve a change of owner and would not affect the V5
|
|
Would a HPI show stolen/recovered if it was recovered before an insurance claim was made?
|
How did you find out now is probably the best answer, possibly reported as stolen and recovered later but damages repaired without involving a claim payout, and only reported to the insurer for information purposes.
You see some cars advertised for sale as previous write offs/stolen recovered but not recorded, why would people be advertising them as such if they weren't recorded, seems unusual for such sellers to be so honest..;)
Might be useful tool to beat the dealer with into doing you a good deal on another car.
|
You'll struggle unless you can show why stolen/recovered matters (where "matters" means "cost you money").
There is no reason why the dealer should know, you'd end up trying to go after the person who sold it after it was stolen, but even then I don't now how you'd show a loss.
Stolen and recovered is not really a status; "damaged and repaired" would be, however it happened.
|
>>previous write offs/stolen recovered but not recorded, why would people be advertising them as such if they weren't recorded,
Because the "stolen" was no recorded as such; the "damaged/repaired" was recorded, with the "stolen" as the reason.
And "damaged" has a variety of statuses.
|
I've seen cars advertised for sale as "Thatcham Cat 1 immobiliser, tracker, deadlocks, stolen/recovered" before, which shows how much use the immobiliser, tracker and deadlocks were. If they want it, they'll have it.
On an Alto though I would think it's a paper exercise - I can't imagine it would have been hotwired and joyridden around Blackbird Leys by da yoot. More likely to have been filched from a dealer and parked in a lockup somewhere. The main concern I would have over a stolen car is whether it's been thumped up kerbs at 50mph and suffered damage to the wishbones etc., which is unlikely to have happened to your car Stu.
|
|
yeah, no-one would nick it. More likely deliberately lost, as it was too big to put in a bin liner and thrown in the river. "We have found your car sir" "gee thanks a bundle officer"
|
|
It was stolen from the previous owner and returned to him but no information on what happened to it - might explain clutch/gearbox issues though...
|
|
Maybe it was returned ten mins later by the thief??
|
|
I did think you would need to be at the lower end of car theft to steal an Alto - maybe they got to drive it further than I did on test drive and thought better of it and brought it back :-)
|
|
Still not as described though. Given the issues you have had then I would have thought that this would add to your "discussions" with the dealer to take it back. At the least I would assume that this knocks its value
|
|
Apparently the dealer doesnt have to know it is stolen recovered or offer up the info if they do know.
|
|
Yup, it is up to you to ask
|
If I had they wouldnt have known it seems, I am only finding out because Autocheck should be renamed Auto 'out of date ' check.
I look forward to the phone call tomorrow where they try and explain to me why I used their car check service yesterday and it provided information that was a year and a half out of date, I look to enjoy it :-)
|
Spoke to Autocheck who said they will 'launch an investigation' and contact the police - apparently it will all happen today and they will call me back with the result.
Fingers crossed although given that the police told me they had no interest in the car I can only assume they will tell them the same.
She did say they have a feed from the PNC to which I asked if it was through a time machine since the owner had the car back 17 months ago at the latest - she didnt have an answer to that and seemed quite put out that other car data services had the current status of the car.
I have my doubts they have a feed from PNC because if that were true they would have the same information as the desk at Northampton Police station. Still hopefully the marker will be removed off the system in the end.
Last edited by: FoR on Mon 19 Aug 13 at 09:29
|
Just had a more informative chat with a girl at Autocheck who explained a little of what was going on. Essentially they email the police asking for current information on any car that comes up as stolen as mine has - she said their response time can be variable but that she would put a note on my file that I am chasing an answer and if they dont hear in the next couple of days they will email again.
She admitted that they dont have a live feed from the PNC too and they rely on the police to inform them when the status of a car changes if it was previously wanted. She said occasionally either the police dont tell them or it fails to be updated, fair enough I suppose.
|
I decided to open up a new line of attack - in for a penny and all that - after the Cerato dealer quite reasonably said that in light of the car being stolen/recovered they could only offer 'substantially less' than book price.
I phoned Suzuki and asked if it was normal policy to sell stolen/recovered cars through their used car scheme, certainly got some interest with that question. I also explained that I had the numerous problems with the car and that on speaking to the salesman he said they had 'spent alot of money on the car fixing it for me' which struck me as odd given you would expect warranty claims to go through the used car scheme - unless they knew more than they let on.
Prob burning some bridges but I havent got much to loose now, Suzuki UK wouldnt like the headline 'Look out for stolen/recovered cars through Suzuki Approved Used cars', wouldnt increase sales I expect.
Last edited by: FoR on Thu 22 Aug 13 at 15:30
|
|
Just out of interest. How did you eventually find out that it had been stolen?
|
>>How did you eventually find out that it had been stolen? <<
Looked into trading it in, dealer came back to me saying car was listed as stolen. Thinking it was perhaps a typo I went to Northampton Police station and they confirmed it had been stolen and returned to owner last year. If car data check had been up to date I would never have known.
I have heard back from Suzuki who while they cant help as such, they were able to find out that the car never went through an insurance claim which is why it doesnt flag up even on comprehensive searches and on up to date PNC checks it is clear so the only battle is with Autocheck really.
|
The car is unsaleable until Autocheck sort this out.
You want to sell the car to replace it.
Tell Autocheck that you will be claiming loss and expense from them if they don't sort it yesterday.
And follow through the SCC if you suffer a loss.
(Include your time and telephone expenses)
Last edited by: neiltoo on Fri 23 Aug 13 at 14:18
|
|
Tbh I have given up pushing, if I was meant to sell it fate wouldnt have made it so difficult. I am giving Autocheck another 10 days, then I will forget about it as I am off on holiday and I cant sell it before I get back anyway. Autocheck are waiting for a response from the Police, that is the delay and who knows how quickly they will respond.
|
Who paid for the original check, you or the dealer?
If you did, your claim for redress is with Autocheck - you paid them for a service, they provided inaccurate information, and you are out of pocket as a result.
If the dealer sold the car as 'autocheck cleared' or some such, then your claim is from the dealer. I'd have assumed a network approved used car would come with a history check - and a clean history. Is this the case for Suzuki? The dealer, in turn, can have a go at Autocheck, but that's not your concern.
I'm not sure what the situation is if you didn't ask the dealer about the car's history at the time of purchase AND he either didn't say or didn't know that it was stolen recovered...
|
I think I'm confused.
You bought car from Dealer A. He didn't tell you it was stolen/recovered as he didn't know.
You tried to part-ex the car with Dealer B and he said "its stolen" which it isn't.
You think Autocheck should have told you that it was stolen, although it isn't.
The Police told you it was stolen, but then recovered.
Autocheck wouldn't have known it was stolen unless the police told them as there was no insurance claim.
As there was no damage there was no claim so it never showed up.
You're currently inconvenienced because you cant part-ex it as you may have wished to do.
I know I've missed a bit, but would appreciate the clarification, cause I'm not seeing the problem or the financial impact.
|
>> I think I'm confused.
>>
>> You bought car from Dealer A. He didn't tell you it was stolen/recovered as he
>> didn't know.
>> You tried to part-ex the car with Dealer B and he said "its stolen" which
>> it isn't.
>> You think Autocheck should have told you that it was stolen, although it isn't.
>> The Police told you it was stolen, but then recovered.
>> Autocheck wouldn't have known it was stolen unless the police told them as there was
>> no insurance claim.
So how does garage "B" know? Its on someones list as stolen and recovered
|
They conduct an Autocheck :)
Think we are going round in circles here.
|
>>So how does garage "B" know? Its on someones list as stolen and recovered <<
Not even recovered. The Autocheck report says 'Dont buy this car, it is stolen' in big letters.
|
How does Garage B know? Because they did A.N. Other check, not an Autocheck. I think...
(Stu, correct me if I'm wrong!)
|
>>How does Garage B know? Because they did A.N. Other check, not an Autocheck. I think...
(Stu, correct me if I'm wrong!)<<
Haha, not quite. Garage B use Autocheck, the same car data company that Autotrader links - I paid for a car check through Autotrader to see if it was just the motor trade car data check - it turns out it is the same company ( same address etc ) and so results were the same.
I figured I could complain louder as a paying customer and if the car comes up as stolen I get another free car check so I can keep checking until it is clear.
The dealer that supplied the car to me uses a different car data check service which is up to date hence the old data didnt flag up when they took the car in p/x from previous owner.
|
>>You think Autocheck should have told you that it was stolen, although it isn't. <<
No, I think Autocheck should not be claiming the car is stolen and wanted by the police which is what their car check through Autotrader claims and the same company provides a car data check service to dealers like the one I visited to p/x, so any car dealer that uses that service will say it is stolen, as will any buyer who uses it via the Autotrader website - ie until it is resolved, little chance of selling it.
>>Autocheck wouldn't have known it was stolen unless the police told them as there was no insurance claim.<<
Autocheck do know it was stolen, what they havent yet picked up on is that it hasnt been outstanding for 18 months because their system relies on the police telling them when a car is stolen and if it is recovered - either the police didnt tell them or they failed to update their system when told. They gained that data through PNC, not insurance. Suzuki UK were able to do a separate search regarding insurance work on the car which came up clean so it is unlikely to have been wrapped around a tree.
>>You're currently inconvenienced because you cant part-ex it as you may have wished to do <<
Yes. Imagine everytime someone comes to view a car you are trying to sell, a person turns up and tells them that they know it is stolen, the police told them so. I am currently at the mercy of emails between Autocheck and the police.
|
|
You've got to admit it Stu, you do have an amazing talent for buying Munters that bark!!! :-) Think you've had more cars in the last couple of years than I've had in the 17 years / 400k or so I've been running my own cars...
|
|
The irony is that every time I get a car I really like and want to keep, something awful happens to it... I fully expected to keep my Charade for another year or two, I had spent all the money on it to have it mechanically spot on and bang, some dozy bint drives up the back of it. Same thing happened when I had a mint Volvo 460 that I loved, someone drove up the back of that too. Must fit a towbar when I find something I like...
|
Stolen Recovered - Fullchat
