| Motoring Discussion > Company car question | Company Cars |
| Thread Author: Slightlyfatdirector | Replies: 51 |
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New Fri 6 Sep 13 13:59
Company car question - Slightlyfatdirector
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I work in a small company where we are supplied with a car. We tend to buy these outright and then run them 'til they are no longer economical to repair. No finance / lease deal has ever been used. We have never been offered a cash alternative so we could consider getting a car and running it ourselves, but this is an option I would like to explore. Does anyone know how you would calculate what a suitable cash sum would be? Is there a % or formula that I could use that would enable me to crunch the numbers, if I were to consider speaking with the boss to make such a proposal if the sums stacked up? I realise that any sum would be subject to tax, but thought it might be an interesting thing to look into... With regards to fuel used for company business, does anyone know the normal sums paid? I believe it is something like 40p per mile for the first 10k or so and a reduced amount afterwards. Thanks a lot folks! |
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New Fri 6 Sep 13 14:34
Company car question - L'escargot
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What Car? magazine gives information (for most models/variants) about the cost of running a car ~ for example, calculated over 3 years or 36,000 miles, which includes depreciation, VED, maintenance, and fuel but not insurance. It's information like this which you need to form the basis for calculating a cash alternative. Most people haven't got a clue as to how much it really costs to run a car. You wouldn't want to do a deal with your employer which would leave you out of pocket.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Fri 6 Sep 13 at 14:36
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New Fri 6 Sep 13 14:59
Company car question - Bill Payer
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You can do comparisons on www.cashorcar.com Typically companies pay a monthly allowance to cover fixed costs - there's tax and NI on this just as if it was salary - and then they usually pay something like 18p to cover business fuel. You can claim the tax back between that amount and 45p (for the first 10K miles) and 25p (for over 10K miles) from HMRC. Note you only get the tax back on the difference, so it's either 20% or 40% of the delta - you don't get the whole amount back. |
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New Fri 6 Sep 13 15:18
Company car question - rtj70
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>> I realise that any sum would be subject to tax And it is subject to national insurance. >> With regards to fuel used for company business, does anyone know the normal sums paid? It is usual for the fuel rate to be a lower than the maximum allowed by HMRC if you have a cash allowance. In our company, the rate you get per mile varies with your car grade. You can claim the tax back on the difference to the maximum rate allowed by HMRC which can be a tidy amount if you do high mileage. For my car grade this month I would have been allowed 26.28p/mile for a petrol car or 19.12p/mile for a diesel (it never costs that much). It's also possible to claim for passengers... and if you cycle you get 20p/mile. If I didn't get an allowance then I'd get to claim more obviously but still not as much as the HMRC limit. What car you use and how fuel efficient it is is your choice. As for actual allowance rates for the car grades allowing you to take the money (so classed as a benefit), ours ranges from about £5000pa to over £9000pa. |
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New Sat 7 Sep 13 07:11
Company car question - Falkirk Bairn
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Many moons ago I used my own car for business use and claimed milage. IIRC it was £240 per month, subject to TAX & NI + 45p for 10K and 25p thereafter. A lot of milage was commuting, which was not paid but the above was OK. 10k @ 45 p = £4,500 +£1728 (net of tax@40%) = £6228 Company was taken over and new employer scheme was £330 per month but the a flat 20p 10K@20p=£2000 Annual payment (net tax)£2376 Tax reclaim £1000 Total £5376 So I lost around £80 / month The reason for all the detail is that if the OP is going to suggest a scheme that is fair to him and the employer then he needs to look carefully at his business milage and the most tax efficient way to ensure that the employee is not worse off by the change. Minimising cost of running a car for business I used to buy a small brand new/pre reg 1600 cc car, last of the old model bought at 30% off and put 100K on it in 4/5 years..............last one was a Honda Civic which apart from the usual tyres, exhaust, brake pads and servicing cost etc me £200 in actual repairs in 5 years, £400/year servicing, £200 RFL and £175 to insure. Many of my colleagues bought MBs/ BMWs and paid through the nose for HP /servicing /repairs etc. Admittedly we were all making good money but I was not going to line the pockets of the local glass palace to go and visit customers. |
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New Sat 7 Sep 13 13:13
Company car question - Bill Payer
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>> Many of my colleagues bought MBs/ BMWs and paid through the nose for HP /servicing >> /repairs etc. Admittedly we were all making good money but I was not going to >> line the pockets of the local glass palace to go and visit customers. >> When my last employer intoduced an opt-out option all the 5 Series and A6 driving middle managers grabbed the money and then went out and bought nearly-new Peugeot 307 diesels and the like. One of the senior managers bought a VW Polo! Employer wasn't impressed, but nothing they could do. |
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New Sat 7 Sep 13 13:24
Company car question - Runfer D'Hills
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By and large, if you want, or it's important to you to have a new premium model every couple or three years then most company car schemes are likely to win the finance debate. If however, you're not that bothered about having a cheaper/older model it can make a lot of financial sense to opt out and come to some other arrangement. At the moment I take the company car ( Merc E estate ) but a colleague on the same grade as me takes only mileage allowance on his privately owned 3 year old Mondeo and is slightly ahead of me financially. We both do a fair amount of business mileage though. If he didn't he might be better off with a company car ironically enough. |
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New Sat 7 Sep 13 13:35
Company car question - Bill Payer
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>> .. a >> colleague on the same grade as me takes only mileage allowance on his privately owned >> 3 year old Mondeo and is slightly ahead of me financially. I certainly wouldn't have opted out for a slight difference, and that make no sense for a worse car. I suppose it depends on your outlook in life but when doing calculations for people at work I used to suggest that the peace-of-mind benefit of having a company car is worth £100/mth. I opted out as our list was pretty limited and I wanted something else. I work form home so there no commuting milage to pay for and I tend to do a lot of long stready runs so they're easy on the car and good for MPG. But I now choose where to stay overnight based on how good the car parking is, where in a company car I never gave that a second thought. I have kittens if the car makes a funny noise - in my company car I just turned the radio up! |
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New Sat 7 Sep 13 13:41
Company car question - Runfer D'Hills
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| That's kind of where I am Bill. I guess I could cover the back of several fag packets and envelopes with calculations but in truth when it comes down to it if someone is prepared to provide me with a new and pleasing car every couple of years and all I have to stump for is some personal tax and private fuel it's an arrangement which suits me well enough for now. |
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New Sat 7 Sep 13 15:01
Company car question - rtj70
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I'm with Runfer on this too. If every three years I get a new car and have to pay tax and for personal miles then that's a good deal to me. I like having a nice car and without tying up savings, getting a new or fairly new car costs. I've done the calculations and if I took the allowance and therefore bit not pay tax on BIK, I'd get about £450 extra per month after tax/NI in my pay packet compared to now. Take off say £1000+ pa for insurance, something for tyres, servicing, break down cover, hire cars when yours if off the road for any reason, maybe a small amount for road tax, etc. Then there's not so much left. Yes I could take out a personal lease with the monthly left overs but you also need a down payment. Which is why I'll probably go with a new company car next October. Already thinking what to get. If I spec up a Golf GTD to the same sort of level as a GT 150PS diesel.... the difference in BIK is pennies per month. |
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New Sat 7 Sep 13 15:20
Company car question - Bill Payer
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>> I've done the calculations and if I took the allowance and therefore bit not pay >> tax on BIK, I'd get about £450 extra per month after tax/NI in my pay >> packet compared to now. You've got to be making money from business mileage on top of the fixed monthly allowance and saving in BIK for it to make sense to opt out. But not doing so many miles that you're swamped by service and maintenance costs and the value of the car destroyed. >> Take off say £1000+ pa for insurance, It's surprising how the sums work out differently for different people - you've really got to look at each individual and their type of use. For example, insurance (biz use) for my Merc is £250/yr. But we had younger members of staff who lived in major cities who were getting insane quotes. And then some of them, in rented accommodation and with dodgy credit histories were being refused PCP quotes. |
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New Sat 7 Sep 13 16:33
Company car question - Runfer D'Hills
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Having said all the above and in direct conflict with my assertion above, I have been giving some thought to buying my current company car when it is due for replacement. There have been mutterings around the big table at work about changing it soon. It's just a little over 2 years old and has around 70K on it now and there's a feeling from my bean counting colleague that it might be time to move it on while it still has a value. I'm tempted ( well, slightly tempted anyway ) to make a private offer and opt out of the co-car scheme. It still looks and drives like new and hasn't been any bother yet. Naturally, of course it would most probably begin a process of disintegration the moment I bought it I suppose. I shall ponder it for a while, make calculations, assumptions and forecasts and almost certainly eventually and indeed gratefully accept the keys to its replacement. Whatever that may turn out to be. |
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New Sat 7 Sep 13 17:25
Company car question - rtj70
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My current annual business mileage is low - very low. In fact almost 0. That could change of course if I work on something that requires travel Mon - Fri. My car will have low mileage for a 3 year old car when it is replaced next year. But the lease company is sure to want to charge a premium if I wanted to buy it compared to what you could get elsewhere. Since I can't make money on the business miles, then putting money into a car myself would only work if it had already depreciated (so 6 - 12 months old) and I kept it for a fair few years. And nothing major went wrong. If I wanted to get a new car then the maths are not in my favour due to depreciation. |
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New Sat 7 Sep 13 17:35
Company car question - Runfer D'Hills
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| I'm trying to work up the enthusiasm to choose something but to be honest as long as it meets the brief of "largish comfy reliable estate car" I can't say I care overly much. Must be getting old. |
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New Sun 8 Sep 13 07:50
Company car question - swiss tony
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>> Having said all the above and in direct conflict with my assertion above, I have been giving some thought to buying my current company car when it is due for replacement. My recommendation? DONT! |
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New Sun 8 Sep 13 08:57
Company car question - Slightlyfatdirector
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Lots of interesting replies, thank you. Currently I run a 5 series touring. Owned from new (2008) with 134k on the clock. It has been extremely unreliable, but I am being encouraged to run it into the ground and the boss's view is that any repairs will be cheaper than the depreciation on a new car. Hard to argue with the logic, although would have not been a happy bunny of I was stuck in Germany with it when the first and second turbo failed, instead of a few miles from home..... I fancy a new XC60 and was curious to see whether if I did it all myself the costs would be near enough the same. It must be said though that I have just taken a company car for granted and indeed don't think about where I park it, stone chips, small dents, etc, which would be a different thing if the car was mine! Same too with servicing costs, etc, and the sheer hassle of the mileage, tax, insurance, etc. Hummmm. Interestingly I have found I could get a top-spec XC90 auto for less than the price of a high spec XC60 manual via a broker, but the fuel consumption would be significantly worse, therefore this is sadly not really an option. |
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New Sun 8 Sep 13 10:29
Company car question - Runfer D'Hills
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That's interesting SFD. I'd sort of thought of looking into a 5 series estate as my next co-car but you might have put me off a bit ! Always thought they looked nice and I've really enjoyed re-aquainting myself with RWD. All the puff about being unusable in winter has revealed itself to be just nonsense. My car has gone through two winters on summer rubber and been in many hilly and snowy situations without problems. You just have to drive it appropriately. And thanks for the advice ST. I'm not sure if I'm serious about buying the current E Class. Just a thought really and I'm more than happy to take your advice. In its defence though, it has been very good so far. Nothing has broken yet and it still feels like new. However, I'd best ask for a Mondeo then by the sounds of it ! :-)) |
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New Sun 8 Sep 13 17:41
Company car question - Bill Payer
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>> ...I've really enjoyed re-aquainting myself with RWD. All the puff about >> being unusable in winter has revealed itself to be just nonsense. My car has gone >> through two winters on summer rubber and been in many hilly and snowy situations without >> problems. You just have to drive it appropriately. >> Odd that - MB's on summer tyres are noted for being bad on snow/ice. Indeed one of my colleagues swapped from a 5 Series to an E Class (both autos) between the two recent bad winters and where he'd been fine with the BMW he said the Merc was just useless. |
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New Sun 8 Sep 13 17:59
Company car question - Runfer D'Hills
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| I guess you can only speak as you find. I didn't have any problems. Quite the opposite in fact. Peasy easy. |
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New Sun 8 Sep 13 10:31
Company car question - BobbyG
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Not relevant to the OP at this stage but in my previous employment, most of the company car drivers had their biggest decisions on their last car before retirement - some picked a smaller car that they would be looking to buy at end of lease when they retire but the majority went onto the cash option so that they could buy a car in their own name so that they didn't wake up on first day of retirement carless! Of course nowadays retirements aren't as set in stone as they once were with flexi retirement ages, loss of final salary schemes and unstable companies resulting in many people retiring when it wasn't fully planned and prepared for. |
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New Sun 8 Sep 13 10:48
Company car question - Runfer D'Hills
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Fair point Bobby, funnily enough though, my wife and I were speaking about what we'd do if I had to ( or indeed chose to ) fund my own car again and the most likely outcome would be that I'd take on her Qashqai and we'd get her a new or newish small hatchback something-or-other. ( Maybe a C1 or similar ) the Nissan is 5.5 years old now but it only has 40k on it and is in excellent order so it'd do me fine for a year or two while I shoved a lot of miles on it. It's cheap on insurance, reasonable on petrol and would just about do what I need it to. Bit small for some of my purposes but vans can be hired if required. The notion of buying the Merc is just that really, a notion. |
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New Sun 8 Sep 13 17:22
Company car question - Bill Payer
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>> Currently I run a 5 series touring. Owned from new (2008) with 134k on the >> clock. It has been extremely unreliable, but I am being encouraged to run it into >> the ground and the boss's view is that any repairs will be cheaper than the >> depreciation on a new car. Hard to argue with the logic, although would have not >> been a happy bunny of I was stuck in Germany with it when the first >> and second turbo failed, instead of a few miles from home..... >> It's hard to know what makes sense with that kind of use - perhaps a 75K mile/3yr contract hire? I've run company cars to over 100K miles and did find that they were constantly nursing an injury of one sort or another! |
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New Sun 8 Sep 13 21:48
Company car question - rtj70
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Although I have a year before I get my next car, I've started thinking what it might be. Well it needs to be ordered in time and if there's a lead time etc.... I ordered this one in April for an October delivery. If you just look at benefit in kind costs, then it is surprising how close some cars are in actual costs per month. And some cars with lower lease costs on a company scheme may have higher emissions so make them more. That is what happened last time around for me. Interestingly, VW seems to be keeping some of their stop-start tech for their cars own again. Examples of monthly BIK tax costs per month (so no pay up/trade down or fuel costs) with cars spec'd to similar base levels (so leather, Xenon HID, sat-nav), etc. means some cars cost a similar amount in BIK. I just need to find out monthly lease/allowance costs. So bearing in mind I've added extras, the there's only about £50pm between some of these for taxation (all rounded to £) VW Passat CC GT = £214 (a bit more than mine for a slightly lower spec....) Skoda Superb Elegance Estate 170PS = £199 Mazda 6 Diesel 175PS Sport Estate = £185 Skoda Octavia vRS Estate = £173 Mazda 6 Petrol 165PS Sport Saloon = £171 Mazda 6 Diesel 170PS Sport Saloon = £171 VW Golf GTD = £169 VW Golf GT Diesel 150PS = £169 Skoda Octavia Elegance Estate Diesel 150PS = £154 SEAT Leon FR = £152 Mazda 6 Diesel 150PS Sport Saloon = £150 VW Golf GT Petrol 140PS = £147 Skoda CityGo = £53 For the serious contenders so far, there might be £20 in BIK in it and I have not driven any of them yet apart from having a Passat CC now. Monthly rental/lease costs and MPG also to be factored in. A Golf GT 140PS petrol is not cheaper because of MPG. And an Octavia vRS Estate is similar BIK but I added adaptive suspension to the Golf GT/GTDs, and Xenons... And leather to all where applicable. I do like the look of the Mazda6 Sport but how comfortable will it be on 19" rims? I have a Golf GTD for the day a week tomorrow when my car gets serviced :-) Last edited by: rtj70 on Sun 8 Sep 13 at 21:49
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New Sun 8 Sep 13 23:24
Company car question - Bromptonaut
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rtj, are those the monthly BIK costs @ 40% tax? If so then even at higher rate, never mind those of us earning less the £40k pa, company car looks like a no brainer. Calculators suggest I could have my 115 XTR Berlingo as a company car, fully funded, for a tax charge of around £700pa. Like I said, no brainer. |
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New Sun 8 Sep 13 23:37
Company car question - PeterS
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>> rtj, are those the monthly BIK costs @ 40% tax? >> >> If so then even at higher rate, never mind those of us earning less the >> £40k pa, company car looks like a no brainer. >> >> Calculators suggest I could have my 115 XTR Berlingo as a company car, fully funded, >> for a tax charge of around £700pa. Like I said, no brainer. >> The other key figure is the value after tax of the car allowance you 'give up' to take the company car. So if the tax on the BIK is £200 a month for a higher rate taxpayer, and the alternative is a £7,200 car allowance, then it actually costs the employee around £550 a month for the car, if that makes sense? |
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New Mon 9 Sep 13 08:54
Company car question - rtj70
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>> rtj, are those the monthly BIK costs @ 40% tax? Yes they are the actual extra tax you would pay at 40% compared to not having the car. But you also need to be allocated the car and what you get is usually based on an allowance. If you go for a diesel with low emissions then it can be good value. Take my car, with current taxable benefit kind rate of 20%. List price was £28,616 so you will pay tax on 20% of that per annum, making tax £5723. Tax at 40% would be £2289 so making it £191 per month. Actually just remembered all those figures I worked out are for NEXT year which is when I get a new car. They are a bit cheaper this tax year (2013/2014). Of course if you can get the cash allowance, go for an older or smaller car and do lot of business miles, then opting out can make sense. not to me though. |
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New Mon 9 Sep 13 11:36
Company car question - DP
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>> VW Passat CC GT = £214 (a bit more than mine for a slightly lower >> spec....) This is what put me off this car. My 320d ED is £65 a month cheaper, and even with full private fuel benefit only costs me £25 a month more than the CC car benefit by itself. In fact, my car is cheaper than all of those except for the Golf GT petrol and the CityGo. Which is really why I chose it (I drew a line at the Prius) It's important to remember as well that you get hit twice on the CO2 figure if your company pays for private fuel, as the fuel benefit is also linked to emissions. For example, going from 109g/km to 190 almost doubles the tax liability on the fuel card alone. |
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New Mon 9 Sep 13 14:10
Company car question - rtj70
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Bear in mind that the spec of the cars I listed have leather, Xenon HID lights, etc. But yes the BMW 320d will be good value. You'd probably need to add leather and Bixenon lights to make the comparison with my Passat CC figures fairer. I got hold of an example list for cars today for my lease company. It's not bang up to date but better than no list. So for example the BMW 320d EfficientDynamics with Business Media is £370pm rental (so I'd get about £29 before tax back on that car and not be paying up about £52 for my CC). And then BIK is £156 compared with £190. So after tax etc, compared to my current car I'd be about £75pm better off each month. A 520d EfficientDynamics Business Media would make me £17 better off. Another example, an Audi A4 TDie SE Tecknik would make me about £60pm better off after tax. That was not the case in 2010 or I'd have gone for that. ...Now if I went for a Toyota Prius T4 Leather/Nav I'd be about £150pm better off :-) And a VW High Up! Bluemotion would make it £280pm! But a thought has to go towards a boring Vauxhall Insignia Elite Ecoflex Nav... £110pm better off. Note I don't get private fuel so the BIK comparison is simpler. |
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New Mon 9 Sep 13 14:50
Company car question - DP
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>> Another example, an Audi A4 TDie SE Tecknik would make me about £60pm better off >> after tax. That was not the case in 2010 or I'd have gone for that. These weren't competitive in 2012 either when I made my choice. That said, I didn't like it to drive. As an automatic it's probably OK, but the manual has horribly offset pedals. At my grade, I get the ED in bum basic spec, albeit with metallic paint included, and nowadays, automatic transmission is also available. If we want any other options, we can have them, but we have to pay for them. Given we are talking about a car I will never own or have any stake in at all, and that I work for an employer at which over half of new starters don't make it to the two year mark (for various reasons), I didn't seriously consider this. Besides, the standard spec is actually pretty generous. The only thing I've ever missed is heated mirrors, whose omission strikes me as a bit odd on a car with things like dual zone climate control , parking sensors and cruise control as standard spec. If you're going to spec options on one of these, I recommend adaptive suspension above and beyond anything else. Assuming the choices stay as they are now, my next one will be a Touring with the automatic transmission in Liquid Blue. Last edited by: DP on Mon 9 Sep 13 at 14:51
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New Mon 9 Sep 13 15:32
Company car question - rtj70
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We have to pay towards options. The cost gets added on each month. So the car's monthly rental is effectively increased. Our allowance also gets boosted if you get a more efficient car too. Just worked out I could get an Audi A6 SE 177PS diesel... for about £16pm more than I pay tax etc now. But that doesn't have any options included. Or the 5 series BMW and be better off by £16. And I'm not even getting a new car until Sept/October 2014 :-) |
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New Mon 9 Sep 13 17:47
Company car question - rtj70
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Back to look at some cars (I thought I'd want/have another Mazda6) but approximate cost to be in pay packet for some cars (after allowance/pay-up/trade-down and tax).... bog standard cars without any extras so no metallic paint etc. Approximations only, rounded to nearest £5: - Golf GT 150PS Diesel = +£140 extra in take home pay compared to Passat CC - Golf GT 140PS Petrol = +£150 - SEAT Leon FR 150PS = +£160 - SEAT Leon FR 184PS = +£140 - Skoda Octavia Elegance Estate 150PS diesel = +£125 - BMW 320d ED Saloon (Business Media) = +£75 - Toyota Prius T4 Leather/Nav = +£150 - Mazda6 2.2d 150PS Sport Saloon Nav = +£70 - Mazda6 2.2d 175PS Sport Saloon Nav = +£50 - Audi A4 TDIe 136PS SE Technik Saloon = +£60 - Audi A6 2.0TDi SE = - £15 - Audi A5 Sportback TDIe 136PS SE Technik = - £5 - VX Insignia SRi Ecoflex 160PS Nav Hatchback = +£130 - Skoda Superb 170PS Elegance Estate = +£65 So you have an idea what you'd like and then you have to reason with the money side :-) No idea what the Golf GTD is because it's not on the list I got today and the list is only indicative. All sorts can change in 12 months. Where it will all change is when options like Xenons and leather are added... the Mazda6 already has those. But due to reductions in emissions a lot of cars are cheaper options now. |
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New Mon 9 Sep 13 18:59
Company car question - PeterS
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>> Just worked out I could get an Audi A6 SE 177PS diesel... for about £16pm >> more than I pay tax etc now. But that doesn't have any options included. Or >> the 5 series BMW and be better off by £16. >> >> And I'm not even getting a new car until Sept/October 2014 :-) >> Worth checking the spec; in my experience the larger cars are better equipped anyway. For example the current 5 series comes with heated leather, satnav and xenon headlights as standard, as does the equivalent MB E class, and I suspect the Audi is very similar. For the smaller 3 series, C lass and A4 these things are all optional, so the spec for spec the larger car might actually be cheaper! Last edited by: PeterS on Mon 9 Sep 13 at 19:01
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New Mon 9 Sep 13 20:22
Company car question - rtj70
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| Correct - I already know the A6 comes with leather, sat nav, etc. but not xenons. A lot of car for the money. |
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New Tue 10 Sep 13 08:59
Company car question - Bill Payer
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>> Worth checking the spec; in my experience the larger cars are better equipped anyway. For >> example the current 5 series comes with heated leather, satnav and xenon headlights as standard, >> as does the equivalent MB E class, and I suspect the Audi is very similar. >> For the smaller 3 series, C lass and A4 these things are all optional, so >> the spec for spec the larger car might actually be cheaper! >> I did this a few years ago with 3 & 5 Series and, for a given engine size and matching spec, the 5 Series was cheaper. Not sure how it would come out with leased cars, and the effect on BIK, but the hefty cost of adding options might make the difference even greater. |
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New Tue 10 Sep 13 09:38
Company car question - rtj70
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| A BMW 320d ED saloon Business Media would mean a saving to me of £74pm. The 520d ED saloon Business Media would have a cost of £8pm. So basically £80pm difference in take home pay. The question is, would I need to add more than about £160 worth of extras to the 3 series to make it equivalent to the 5 series (contributions come out before tax/NI so £160 extras is the difference). |
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New Tue 10 Sep 13 18:28
Company car question - rtj70
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Well I've since worked out the 520d ED which replaced the 518d (I think) has been discontinued because the 520d 184PS engine is as clean.... so no idea what they really cost me now. Let alone in 2014. But I am guessing I could get a 520d SE saloon and probably save money compared to the current car. And it comes with basic sat nav, Xenons, and leather. Food for thought. But a Golf GTD might save me quite a bit more. But that's not a fair comparison in cars. You'd have to compare a Golf with a BMW 1 series not a 5 series. A 1 series would save me money too. As would a 3 series.... But I happened to pop to get some brochures today and sat in a 520d M Sport Auto and it felt a nice place to be (I did similar in 2009/2010)... sat in a 3 series and it felt a lot cheaper. Not as bad as the same comparison in 2009/2010. But the Base price of a 5 series is about £30k and the base price of a 3 series is about £23k. |
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New Mon 9 Sep 13 09:04
Company car question - Gromit
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"It has been extremely unreliable" Just the kind of car, then, that you don't want to opt out of a company car scheme for! Its one thing if the car your firm provides you with breaks down and you can't do a day's work - its another thing if you've asked them to pay you to run your own car instead, and you can't do a day's work because the car has failed you... PS: If you thinking of a manual XC60, make sure you can get on with the electric handbrake - but no hill hold clutch - setup on it. I can't on FiL's one. |
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New Sun 8 Sep 13 23:18
Company car question - PeterS
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| We get 45ppm with our car allowances, for the first 10k miles at least, but I do very few business miles nowadays. Because our allowance is set at a level to actively discourage company car choice I'm better off running my MB as a private car than as a company car, even with virtually no business miles. In fact, having just had a part exchange price on it (purely for research purposes of course..) it's cost me less than £400 a month in depreciation. Throw in less than £100 a month for insurance, servicing, tax and tyres and it's well under £500 a month. Given that the tax would be somewhere north of £250 as a company car, I reckon I've 'paid' for the Up! with the saving :-) |
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New Mon 9 Sep 13 08:58
Company car question - rtj70
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PeterS, if you've written the purchase of the car off then opting out of a scheme can be shown to make financial sense. You factor in depreciation but have you factored in purchase? Just curious. For me opting out, I'd get about 19ppm for business miles which covers the cost with a few pence over. But I hardly do business miles at the moment. When I've worked out (guessed) getting a nearly new car, factoring in purchase price, depreciation, etc. then over 3 (and more likely 4) years I'd be about the same money wise as taking a company car. But you've got say £15k cash tied up in the car to begin with. |
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New Mon 9 Sep 13 11:53
Company car question - PeterS
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>> PeterS, if you've written the purchase of the car off then opting out of a >> scheme can be shown to make financial sense. You factor in depreciation but have you >> factored in purchase? Just curious. >> Well obviously buying the car in the first place meant spending a chunk of cash - I haven't factored in the lost interest / return on that capital. I used non isa cash savings in the first place though, on which the current return is derisory (and taxed!!) and replenish monthly as I'm paid my car allowance. Interestingly, and somewhat depressingly, even on a £30 something k car that loss of interest is only around £50 a month after tax :-( |
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New Mon 9 Sep 13 08:17
Company car question - IJWS14
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One factor to add - what is the split between business and private miles . . Experience here, and the opt out allowance for each grade is higher than the car allowance, is that if you do huge business miles and low private miles it is better to opt out, if you do low business miles and high private miles it is better to take the car. I do around 20-25k private miles a year and, depending on work, between 2 and 10k business. Insurance, maintenance and servicing costs for 25k a year are significant, most of the internet sites won't cover those annual mileages. However if you do large business miles and claim a percentage of costs it can be better to run your own car. I agree that there is a significant value around the comfort of a company car, if it breaks it gets fixed without hassle, if I bend it it gets fixed without hassle. And as they provide another car I can still get to work without having to hire a car. |
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New Mon 9 Sep 13 09:01
Company car question - rtj70
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>> if it breaks it gets fixed without hassle, if I bend it it gets fixed without hassle And if it's stolen it eventually gets replaced without hassle and in the meantime you're provided with a car. When this happened to me years ago I initially got a hire car and then borrowed some spare ones from fleet - so had two Audi A4's and a Passat. And got taxed as if I had a hire car. And if you have an accident, not only is it fixed but you get a decent car whilst it's off the road and not a Nissan Micra. |
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New Mon 9 Sep 13 10:30
Company car question - Bill Payer
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>> And if you have an accident, not only is it fixed but you get a >> decent car whilst it's off the road and not a Nissan Micra. >> It was amazing how many of our guys, with unblemished driving records, had big accidents just after opting out. One really big one on a motorway took 4mths to fix the car (no-one involved could understand why the order was given to repair the car rather than write it off) and the driver had a Ford Ka as a courtesy car. |
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New Mon 9 Sep 13 10:26
Company car question - Bill Payer
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>> However if you do large business miles >> and claim a percentage of costs it can be better to run your own car. >> I'm not so sure - I reckon over 25K miles per year is hard on a car and whether it makes sense to opt out or not ather depends on what mileage rate you're being paid. Most companies pay little more than the fuel cost and once over 10K miles you can only claim tax back on up to 25p - so even a 40% tax payer might be getting something like 20p/mile in total. |
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New Mon 9 Sep 13 11:30
Company car question - rtj70
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Some people where I work opt out because they say they will save money. Some will and some probably don't - one replaces his cars every 2 years for a brand new one so depreciation must be a big factor. One that must be better off though achieved that by buying a small super-mini. But if they'd got the same car on the company car scheme they'd be better off than if they had say a VW Passat. |
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New Mon 9 Sep 13 11:56
Company car question - PeterS
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>> >> I agree that there is a significant value around the comfort of a company car, >> if it breaks it gets fixed without hassle, if I bend it it gets fixed >> without hassle. And as they provide another car I can still get to work without >> having to hire a car. >> For me, that's always been the key benefit of a company car - it's absolutely zero hassle. It's just now the cost of that (to me) is now more than I'm happy with!! |
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New Mon 9 Sep 13 13:48
Company car question - Slightlyfatdirector
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>>>>>I'd sort of thought of looking into a 5 series estate as my next co-car but you might have put me off a bit ! Well is a 2008 520d Touring (E61 I think). So many things have gone wrong including a huge number of electrical glitches (boot opening on it's own whist you are driving to boot not opening at all, rear wheel bearings gone at 40k, Bluetooth system shot, two turbo failures, self-levelling suspension requiring complete replacement, etc, etc). Lovely sympathetic BMW dealer though (Tunbridge Wells), but unable to get extended warranty now. I was just unlucky, and cannot believe that this is representative of the cars out there, so don't let it put you off too much.... Car is comfy (can drive to Germany in one go and get out feeling fresh), and good on fuel (although less good since the last new turbo - odd), and plenty powerful (177bhp) and practical, but sadly no 'character'. Whereas my last Volvo S60 was fab with it's lovely D5 engine.... Interesting comments from all too, thanks. |
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New Mon 9 Sep 13 20:48
Company car question - Lygonos
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Mate's 520d estate needed a new rear diff at under 20k miles. He wasn't impressed either by the 'lack of character' driving - he replaced it with a 325i, and subsequently bought a Forester XT auto. |
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New Mon 9 Sep 13 22:35
Company car question - rtj70
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On a number of occasions I've ruled out BMW. First in 1999 because when I sat in the then 3 series I didn't like it. Then 9 months or so before ordering this car I went to look at the 3 and 5 series because the latter was a bargain lease. It felt nice and was well specified. Sat in the 3 series and it was nowhere near as nice as the 5 series. New vs old BMW design etc. When it came to being able to spec/order a car the BMW had shot up for monthly rentals. So that ruled it out. But the new/current 3 series is pretty much like it. And I've just realised the 3 series auto is only fractionally more per month.... I'd have to seriously think about it. |
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New Tue 10 Sep 13 09:14
Company car question - DP
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| That ZF 8-speed autobox is spectacular. Not only is it incredibly quick witted and silky smooth, but it carries no performance or CO2 penalty. It's the first slushbox I've ever actually wanted. |
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New Tue 10 Sep 13 09:39
Company car question - rtj70
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I am surprised there seems to be no penalty in CO2 - must be because they can be in higher gears on the official test etc. The 5 series 520d is more efficient with auto than with manual. And the car is only about £1000 more. A better proposition than a DSG IMO.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 10 Sep 13 at 09:43
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New Tue 10 Sep 13 09:59
Company car question - Gromit
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| Lower MPG/CO2 for autos isn't unheard of - the last model Subaru Legacy 2 litre was rated 2 mpg better in auto than manual form. |
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