| Motoring Discussion > Not bangernomics, but sensible mainly DIY motoring | Miscellaneous |
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New Sun 29 Sep 13 11:19
Not bangernomics, but sensible mainly DIY motoring - -
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A current thread prompts this question. What are the best cars or makes to buy, used out of warranty, for ease of maintenance and cost and ease of normal wear and tear repairs, parts availability and price of parts a strong consideration. For example, which FWD has replaceable wheel bearings instead of one piece hubs with factory installed irreplaceable bearings @ £££s (10 times the cost of a bearing)...indeed do any cars (most RWDs i expect still have then on the front) have adjustable bearings now which you could remove repack and give them another 100k of life whilst down and dirty doing a full service...this was part of servcing regime in my kerbside cowboy days. Not just bearings mind, which cars have user drainable and refillable gearboxes manual or auto. Can you still buy a alternator bush kit? Brake caliper seal kit? Lots of other things to consider, and i realise this is of no interest to company car users or frequent new car buyers. A friends Yaris 1 had a rear wheel bearing failure @ around 70k (ridiculously low mileage IMO) and was amazed to discover the bearing wasn't replaceable and a new hub from Toyota a hefty £225ish (good few years ago now) and the pattern part he fitted about £150, a new bearing should have been £15 to £30 and about half an hours reasonably easy work....and why oh why have esaily mainatined adjustable taper bearings with locking nuts/tabs disappeared from many designs...no don't answer that we already know. Many years ago i owned a Granda 2.5 Diesel, vacuum pump went west was only a simple diaphragm perforated, replaceable with a seal kit for pennies on the Pug 504/505 the engine came from, but a crimped over irreplaceable piece of junk on the Ford (no surprise there) which cost me well over £90 in 1987....the two not interchangeable as Ford put compeletely different belt routing and bracketting on their model. Its this sort of thing thats going wrong in motoring, they want you to buy the disposable car and its getting closer, so what do we buy that bucks this trend made in the years 2000 to date. |
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New Sun 29 Sep 13 11:36
Not bangernomics, but sensible mainly DIY motoring - swiss tony
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>> Its this sort of thing thats going wrong in motoring, they want you to buy the disposable car and its getting closer, so what do we buy that bucks this trend made in the years 2000 to date. >> Very close GB. Many parts that SHOULD be available separately are now part of an assembly. A few I have come across listed here.... Anti roll bar bushes... now bonded to the anti roll bar to 'stop squeaks' Now they split instead!£100.00 or so.. Inner door release handles... only available on the door card! £250.00 or more Fuel pressure switch... only available on the fuel rail £440.00ish |
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New Sun 29 Sep 13 11:53
Not bangernomics, but sensible mainly DIY motoring - -
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>> Inner door release handles... only available on the door card! £250.00 or more I expect those examples are only the tip of the iceberg, ridiculous but the customer is a cash cow to be milked. I'm spending a considerable amount on my old 124 coupe this year in refurb and long view preventative maintenance/refurb, should have it back in a day or two, hope to keep it for many more years yet, not as a showpiece or weekend toy but as my daily driver. Interestingly the excellent one man and his dog bodyshop i've used for many years has moved away from the bulk of his work (local car trade who whilst he's very reasonable try to screw him down on price ever lower) and into classic and older car refurb restoration work. Not only are there more retail customers like me who appreciate the work, he finds it far more interesting and rewarding (not just financially) than touching up forecourt cars and the typical insurance cheapies. In our long conversions it seems my/our attitude to modern electronic junk and to keep older trusted designs running is rather more widely held than many might think, there are lots of people out there trying as well as they can to keep there older cars going by doing them up properly, not just hoping to make classics out of them but to avoid the modern car for as long as possible. |
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New Sun 29 Sep 13 12:19
Not bangernomics, but sensible mainly DIY motoring - swiss tony
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>> In our long conversions it seems my/our attitude to modern electronic junk and to keep >> older trusted designs running is rather more widely held than many might think, there are >> lots of people out there trying as well as they can to keep there older cars going by doing them up properly, not just hoping to make classics out of them but to avoid the modern car for as long as possible. >> Indeed GB. IMHO cars today, (and servicing requirements) are designed around lease companies. ie, as cheap (in real terms) as possible for 3 years, then the costs rise quickly. for instance, the 1st real major service @ 4 years or more (spark plugs, fuel filters etc) The problem is, residuals also drop faster from year 4 onwards, meaning the second and third owners lose more on the value of the car AND servicing costs.... or they don't bother with the servicing, with the issues that brings.... |
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New Sun 29 Sep 13 13:54
Not bangernomics, but sensible mainly DIY motoring - Ted
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I've made the decision that when I no longer need the Vitara for towing I will go back in time and get myself a small car like a Mark 2 Fiesta that I can keep on the road at minimal cost. I'm prepared to pay over the odds for the best one I can find, without going mad ! I wouldn't mind a Nissan Pau as well, automatic with power steering all based on the early Micra...watch out for rust though. SWM will still want a ' modern ' I expect. Examples are out there if you keep an eye out..........as King Harold said ! Ted |
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New Sun 29 Sep 13 13:54
Not bangernomics, but sensible mainly DIY motoring - WillDeBeest
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| That's a surprising suggestion, ST. I can understand that a car's value takes a step down when the warranty expires, but after that I'd expect the curve to resume its gradual flattening-out. If my LEC loses as much value in years 4-6 as it cost its first owner in years 1-3, I'll be paying someone to take it away, and that seems unlikely. |
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New Sun 29 Sep 13 14:10
Not bangernomics, but sensible mainly DIY motoring - Dave
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In the past, the Japanese companies have offered service kits for things like starters, calipers etc. At least they still do for the older Land Cruisers. But I guess they won't for the newer stuff. At the end of the day, they need to make a profit, and if they're not getting it on car sales, it has to come from somewhere. For older stuff I guess it's a toss up between Jap stuff that will generally last quite well and be easy to work on, but with sky high parts prices and limited parts availability outside the network, or the more common brands that don't have such a good reputation, but have much better parts support. |
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New Sun 29 Sep 13 17:02
Not bangernomics, but sensible mainly DIY motoring - Dutchie
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Is there any sensible do it yourself motoring? I've never kept a car more than five years.Except the old mans VW Jetta for sentimental reasons the car was dual fuel LPG and Petrol. |
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New Sun 29 Sep 13 18:40
Not bangernomics, but sensible mainly DIY motoring - CGNorwich
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Not really I suspect. When you take your time into account I suspect that the savings aren't huge. I guess people mainly maintain their own cars for the interest and self satisfaction involve d . If you enjoy motoring but not maintenance as is the case with me then you're probably happy to pay someone to do the job. I used to do basic servicing on my car when financially there was no option but the list of things I would rather do than mess about under the bonnet is huge! Full of admiration for the mechanical knowledge of some on here though. Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sun 29 Sep 13 at 18:40
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New Sun 29 Sep 13 19:34
Not bangernomics, but sensible mainly DIY motoring - -
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Dave. Yes i thought of Japanese, but have we got a bit misty eyed over the Corolla/Carina/Starlet/Camry/Bluebird/Galant/626 era when those wonderful, maybe a bit bland but totally reliable and immensily durable cars arrived, amazingly long lasting without needing constant fettling as our British built mostly motors did. The thread that prompted this was Brettmicks, whos Mazda 3 well under 100k miles needs wheelbearings, presumably irreplaceable judging by the cost, as are Yaris rears too, again at silly money, in Toyotas case that was a well under 100k car too...have Japanese lost sight of the ball too? Dutchie. For me in my earlier days DIY on my own and fetting other peoples cars was the only way to stay solvent, i've saved countless thousands over the years by doing so, really don't like having to pay through the nose for a tuppeny ha'penny item which has failed but is unobtainable without the rest of the system that goes with it, who would have thought you would need to buy a door card to get an interior handle. CGN. Yes i'm now in the fortunate position of paying others to do the work i dislike or can't do, but i still like doing things i can do properly, gives a great deal of pleasure, plus i know when its something like a brake refurb exactly what has been done and what quality of work and parts, and yes love almost have gone into the job. Thing is i like to keep cars for a long time, had the MB over 10 years now and have every intention of another 10+ unless someone makes me an offer thats in accordance with its genuine condition and the care its had. |
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New Sun 29 Sep 13 19:39
Not bangernomics, but sensible mainly DIY motoring - CGNorwich
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| As I said nothing but admiration for those who have the knowledge and inclination to maintain their cars themselves. Just not for me! Sooner be out in the garden. |
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New Sun 29 Sep 13 20:00
Not bangernomics, but sensible mainly DIY motoring - brettmick
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I am sitting in front of my computer with my spreadsheet... If I buy a 62 plate Yaris from Motorpoint (1.4D4D TR Nav with 15k miles up) for £10k and get 60 MPG from it it will cost me £123 a month to run for the next two years PLUS capital cost/depreciation. If I stick with my Mazda 3, continue to get 37 MPG from it and spend only £250 on service and repairs pa for the next two years it will cost me £218 a month PLUS depreciation. The difference is almost £2,300 over 24 months. Will the Yaris depreciate by that much? Cheapest Diesel Yaris on AT near me is £7795 at 3 years old. Let's say we roll forward and the private sales therefore is £7k? Will the Mazda cost me more than £700 in the next 24 months? On current form the answer is yes - the two wheel bearings will be almost £500. The maths say go Yaris. Two very different cars however. Now add the purchase cost of the Mazda and the maths slide towards the Yaris even harder. I can't however, I have to look at that as a sunk cost... Go to 36 months and the maths favours the Yaris even more - ignoring its still in warranty and that Mazda would be rotting through. I would like the Mini Convertible - can't afford (justify) to get there and have a sensible amount of manufacturers warranty left... |
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New Sun 29 Sep 13 20:29
Not bangernomics, but sensible mainly DIY motoring - Number_Cruncher
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There's one big thing missing from GB's thinking while he's hankering after 1990s cars. Cars now, in real terms, are absolute bargains. A Vuaxhall Nova, in 1990 was about £7000 new. Thurlby motors are offering new Corsas today at £7995 ! If the price if motor cars had kept pace with things like food, energy, or petrol, that figure would be a lot higher. Some of this real terms cost reductions are due exactly to the savings offered by new technology like the one-piece wheel bearings he's upset about. Gen 3 wheel bearings by offering a bolt on wheel bearing solution offer a number of technical advantages enjoyed by the motorist, but, also offer the manufacturer some significant benefits - they allow the interface between the bearing supplier's part and the vehicle to be much simpler - no arguing over whether the bearing was at fault or the dimensions of the part the bearing was pressed into. By being a bolt-on solution, they improve the efficiency with which the car can be assembled - no messy greasing station needed on the production line - no skilled labour required to set a taper roller bearing, etc, etc. However, it's much simpler and easier to just see a conspiracy theory rather than consider the wider picture. So, yes, a DIYer might complain about the cost of a bearing if one fails (I imagine most cars go to the scrapyard with their original bearings still fitted), but, the purchaser of the car has already had the cost advantage of the improved technology once in the car's original price tag. |
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New Sun 29 Sep 13 20:45
Not bangernomics, but sensible mainly DIY motoring - PeterS
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>> There's one big thing missing from GB's thinking while he's hankering after 1990s cars. Cars >> now, in real terms, are absolute bargains. >> That is so true, and I think they depreciate more quickly in this country than almost anywhere else in Europe as well. Early this year I bought a 1994 Audi Convertible from eBay for £536 - its original list price was somewhere in the region of £28,000. The new A3 convertible, which is around the same size, is forecast to cost from £26,000 when it goes on sale. Add £1,500 as a guess for the cost of an auto 'box and despite 20 years of inflation the new car costs almost exactly the same as its 1994 equivalent. Except the new one will be quicker, more economical and come with airbags, ESP, A/C, power roof etc etc... Add in the explosion of different finance models for consumers and you can see why Audi/BMW/MB sales are up so much. 20 years ago owning a convertible German made car was beyond the reach of many - today I expect £199 a month gets you one!! Cars have, in real terms, never been so cheap... Edited to add that, as a result, they are far more 'disposable' than ever before which is either good if you make and sell them, or bad if you're trying to keep one one the road!! Last edited by: PeterS on Sun 29 Sep 13 at 20:47
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New Sun 29 Sep 13 20:51
Not bangernomics, but sensible mainly DIY motoring - spamcan61
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>> >> So, yes, a DIYer might complain about the cost of a bearing if one fails >> (I imagine most cars go to the scrapyard with their original bearings still fitted), but, >> the purchaser of the car has already had the cost advantage of the improved technology >> once in the car's original price tag. >> Having spent the last 10 years plus running old Vauxhalls up to 150K+ I've never had any bearing issues. never had to change oil in a gearbox, never had to change a clutch (OK my last Vectra had a clutch change before I bought it). Reasons for scrapping have generally been lots of small ish things all wearing/breaking in a short period of time. Sod's law states two of the bangernomics vehicles were pensioned off within 10K of a cambelt change! |
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New Sun 29 Sep 13 20:29
Not bangernomics, but sensible mainly DIY motoring - Avant
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Brettmick - if you can afford a nearly new Yaris (which would be reliable judging by the four Yarises that my daughter has had), the 4 years remaining on the warranty and the lack of hassle are worth it surely over a 9-year-old Mazda, even if this were the more expensive way to go. If the numbers also stack up in favour of the Yaris, it must be a no-brainer. A reliable car will help you to be more effective in your voluntary work (mentioned in your own thread) as well as your job. Go for it! Last edited by: Avant on Sun 29 Sep 13 at 20:31
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New Sun 29 Sep 13 21:09
Not bangernomics, but sensible mainly DIY motoring - Armel Coussine
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Bloke from the garage who came to get me a week or so ago when the car was having its radiator fan done at last - it was fine without it for a year or more except in very slow London-type traffic, so in the end we bit the bullet - came in some sort of lateish BMW 3 series coupe, a diesel. It was immaculate and svelte, virtually silent in all departments including the suspension even in our drive, but with that nice bimmer thrum, and had 117,000 miles on it if I remember right. He admitted that it was frugal too. Got it off an old lady who was one of the garage's punters, he confided with a smug grin. I was too polite to ask what he paid for it. Have to say though it was a very nice motor and I'd like to find one like that. Problem with these up-to-date jalopies is you have to choose very carefully. I doubt my own ability to do it that well. |
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New Sun 29 Sep 13 21:31
Not bangernomics, but sensible mainly DIY motoring - Robin O'Reliant
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Interesting point NC makes. According to an online inflation calculator his 1990 Nova at 7k would cost nearly thirteen and a half grand now, complete with wind up windows and a radio cassette at very best. And the poverty spec Lupo I got for £8000 in 2001 would now cost £11, 211. |
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New Sun 29 Sep 13 21:33
Not bangernomics, but sensible mainly DIY motoring - Lygonos
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>> Cars now, in real terms, are absolute bargains. Dug out a 1999 WhatCar? magazine.... 1999 BMW 535i - 235bhp, 0-60 7.0, 23.5mpg ..... £36,915 (£55,618 in 2013 dosh) 2013 BMW 535i - 302bhp, 0-60 5.8, 34.9mpg ..... £39,355 1999 Mondeo 1.8TD LX 5d - 88bhp, 0-60 12.6, 44.8mpg .... £15,850 (£23,880 today) 2013 Mondeo 1.6TD Edge - 115bhp, 0-60 11.0, 67.3mpg ... £18,995 etc **EDIT** ~ WhatCar May 1999 cost £3.20 and had 346 pages, compared to July 2013 at £4.99 and 250 pages. Last edited by: Lygonos on Sun 29 Sep 13 at 21:35
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New Sun 29 Sep 13 21:55
Not bangernomics, but sensible mainly DIY motoring - madf
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I happily diy on two Mark 1 Yaris - including timing chain change on 1.0. Despite my age, it's easy. Easy to get to parts, no large scale corrosion, easy to change them.. not needed very often. Son's Mark 3 Fiesta was awful in comparison and the thought of buying one to run is - to me - risible. Designed to fall apart after 8 years and oil control rings made of string. And they rust.. everywhere and everything. Modern cars don't rust except jags and MBs..which are just expensive junk# in my view (Anyone want to DIY an early A class MB? Only masochists do:-) # see injectors Last edited by: madf on Sun 29 Sep 13 at 22:00
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New Sun 29 Sep 13 23:14
Not bangernomics, but sensible mainly DIY motoring - nice but dim
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>> >> Yes i thought of Japanese, but have we got a bit misty eyed over the >> Corolla/Carina/Starlet/Camry/Bluebird/Galant/626 era >> you have reminded me of the Corolla 2.0 diesel my parents ran from 3 year old until 14 years old. Wonderful car not fast, never let them down and apart from usual servicing , not much spent on it but did rust badly. It had a totally blue interior even the dash which cracked due to the suns heat and had an aftermarket immobaliser with a chip you inserted under the dash separate to the key. Sadly got demoted to second car and then i ran for a month or two before they decided to sell it. Sold to a taxi driver for £275 with 110k on clock. He only wanted it for the engine to keep one of his cars going. I miss cars like these. |
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New Mon 30 Sep 13 07:13
Not bangernomics, but sensible mainly DIY motoring - Dog
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My brother in Maidstone owned a 2.0 diesel Corolla for 15 years, I really really hated the noisy damn thing. He even had the audacity to bring it to Cornwall once or twice, the car outlived him, alas. |
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