I want to check the tracking on the Reggie, as it won't drive in a straight line! Ok, so not strictly true, it will, but needs constant correction. It will either move slightly to the left, or the right, and it's a bit like driving an old Land Rover with a steering box. Take your eye off the road for a nano second and it heading off left or right.
Just looking at it by eye, it looks like it's toeing out, although it's a bit deceptive as the rear is much narrower than the front. The tyres haven't worn funny (although it could have been knocked out recently), and I can't feel any slop anywhere.
So any tips for DIY tracking?
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How long you had it? What are the front tyres wearing like? Hit any kerbs lately? Check the steering (especially ball-joints for wear).
Got a double extending ladder? Make sure it's straight. I set one of my cars when I noticed tyre wear indicated tracking problems. Put the car on level ground with the steering straight ahead. Lean one part of ladder against front tyre on one side so the most of the ladder is in front of car, ensuring the ladder has equal contact with the tyre either side of a vertical centre line. Repeat with other half of ladder on other side of car. Measure distance between ladders close to car and at far end of the ladders. Any 'toe' will be exaggerated by the length of the ladders. Repeat at least twice by rolling the car at least one third of a wheel rotation (to account for any buckle in the wheel).
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I used to do all my own tracking at one time.
Had two small bore copper tubes, one a sliding fit inside the other, i would measure the track from the inside of both front wheels at a midway point at two opposing points obviously, invariably the pipe would have to be bent slightly in order to come down under the sump/cross member.
It wasn't perfect by any means but a heck of a lot better than the most sophisticated equipment in the hands of a youth who hadn't a clue and cared less.
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I used bathtubs method, and it seemed to have about 1cm toe out at the end of the ladders. It was a bit tricky because the wheels stick out at the centre more than the tyres.
So I got underneath and adjusted each track rod end (out) about 1/4 turn. Now the ladders measure about 1.5 cm toe in at the end. According to my right angle triangle calculation, with a ladder length of 3000cm, and a toe of 0.75cm, I should have about 0.01 degrees.
I'll take it for a run tomorrow and see if it's any better.
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I cannot tell you how impressed I'm going to be if this has worked.
Good luck and do let us know asap.
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I have seen someone use an extending line prop to good effect, similar to the sliding copper pipes.
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sounds similar to the problem i had with the polo. it couldnt decide if it wanted to pull to the left or the right....in the end i took it in to have the tracking looked at..diagnosis was worn wishbone bushes, 70 quid a side fitted and the tracking thrown in
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IIRC National do a tracking check for free, you only pay if you want it adjusted.
Stopper her last Fiesta chewing up its front tyres.
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>> IIRC National do a tracking check for free.
Probably only a basic front wheel alignment check rather than a 4 wheel alignment check though.
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>> >> IIRC National do a tracking check for free.
>>
>> Probably only a basic front wheel alignment check rather than a 4 wheel alignment check
>> though.
>>
4 wheel free for son's Yaris then £31 for adjustment. Last year.
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Having measured it, remember to make any adjustments equally on the two track-rods, or you will put the steering wheel off-centre.
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>> Having measured it, remember to make any adjustments equally on the two track-rods, or you
>> will put the steering wheel off-centre.
>>
Well despite adjusting it equally, the wheel is a bit off centre now! But it seems to drive better, with more self centering. Eill try out better tomorrow on the motorway.
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I bought a Haynes manual yesterday, and spent the evening reading through. It seems the tracking is supposed to be toeing out - something like 10 minutes to 1deg 10 minutes. Typical french, has to be different to every other car I've owned.
I stopped in at the local tyre place, and for the equivalent of just £65 they can set it for me. So I think I'll invest a bit more of my own time and ingenuity into making something a bit more repeatability than a couple of ladders.
Talking of the haynes manual, having read a couple of sections - cam belt and clutch renewal, I can't believe how difficult and complicated the French have made things. Take half the car apart, set this, special tool for that, sealant here, new bolt there. No wonder they have such a bad rap when even things that should be fairly straightforward are made so complicated.
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>> I bought a Haynes manual yesterday, and spent the evening reading through. It seems the
>> tracking is supposed to be toeing out - something like 10 minutes to 1deg 10
>> minutes.
Pretty standard for FWD from my memory (are you thinking of proper cars and pick ups driven from the correct end..;), something has to take up the steering slack in that flawed idea, maybe helps reduce that horrible side effect torque steer.
Not all French cars were bad for working on, my 21 Savanna Diesel N/S engine was a doddle to work on in situ, head off sump off pistons out easy peasy.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Mon 7 Oct 13 at 12:24
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>>So I think I'll invest a bit more of my own time and ingenuity
How about virtual ladders?
Using some flat ground, a wall, a piece of wood, a piece of chalk, a tape measure, and a cheap laser pointer.
Park the car facing the wall, say, 10 ft away
Shape the wood so it touches on the edges of the rim, but doesn't foul the wheel bolts, and wheel knave. Tape the pointer to the side of the piece of wood.
On each wheel, put the wood against the side of the wheel, pointing down - use a chalk mark mark where the laser hits the ground. Also, place the wood against the wheel horizontally, and mark on the wall where the laser hits.
Using the tape, measure
a) the distance from the front axle to the wall
b) the distance between the chalk marks on the wall
c) roll the car back, and measure the distance between the chalk marks on the floor
5 minutes of basic trig gives you the answer.
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>>How about virtual ladders?
I quite like that, but how do you ensure the laser beam is absolutely parallel to the wheel rim?
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Quite right BT.
Checking that the beam remains within 1mm over a length of about 3.5 metres would give accuracy better than 1 minute of arc. So, quite easy to fall well within a typical tracking tolerance. The laser spot size soon becomes the largest source of error.
This alignment would need to be checked during the assembly of the laser pen and block of wood.
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"are you thinking of proper cars and pick ups driven from the correct end..;)"
I could be GB. I've just looked through some old service manuals I still have kicking around, and they all state a toe in figure - Mk1 Escort, Mk3 Capri, and Land Cruiser!
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There's a place near ere that sells the Gunson Trakrite for about £50, so I may get that. They seem to have good reviews on the web.
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Yes, Gunson's Trakrite do work well. I used one to set up my W124, and then, with rotation, got 40k out of the tyres.
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I've always been suspicious of those things.
If for example you use it on a car with too much toe-in and the tyres have worn as a result. Then I reckon the tyres would exert an outward force due to the wear, but an inward force due to the excessive toe-in.
Where do you go from there?
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>>Then I reckon the tyres would exert an outward force due to the wear
Why?
There isn't much force involved at all - the motion of the plate is driven by geometry rather than any slip angle effects.
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A tyre that has worn due to too much toe-in will have worn more at the outside edge than the inside, thus forming a truncated cone shape. Such a shape will, if left to its own devices, roll in a circle. If fixed, to say a car, I understand it will exert a sideways force in the direction of its smaller circumference.
I was taught that was why cars in this country tend to pull to the left. The camber of the road pulls the car left, resulting in a small steering input to the right. The continuous steering input wears the LH side of both front tyres, causing them to exert an even greater pull to the left.
I stopped studying such things before the introduction of stuff such as 'negative offset steering geometry' and have never picked it up again.
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If the tyre is so badly worn, yes, it would be better to replace it before seting the tracking.
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>> I was taught that was why cars in this country tend to pull to the
>> left. The camber of the road pulls the car left, resulting in a small steering
>> input to the right. The continuous steering input wears the LH side of both front
>> tyres, causing them to exert an even greater pull to the left.
That's interesting bt. And further supports my view that I should always drive down the middle of the road except around blind corners or in the face of oncoming.
The narrower roads round here are mostly in terrible condition at the edges. I just can't understand people crashing through all those potholes to keep left on an empty road, but they nearly all do it.
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>> That's interesting bt. And further supports my view that I should always drive down the
>> middle of the road except around blind corners or in the face of oncoming.
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>> The narrower roads round here are mostly in terrible condition at the edges. I just
>> can't understand people crashing through all those potholes to keep left on an empty road,
>> but they nearly all do it.
Indeed, if its possible and practical and safe I often use the centre of the road, to the extent of straddling the white line at times, also straightening out corners. Quite a few times you get a much safer and better view by not hugging the left kerb.
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Toe-in on RWD;Toe out on FWD.Any wear will then tend to Zero toe on both.
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Take it in get it done right £25.00
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>> Take it in get it done right £25.00
That's why I devised the two ladder method. Car I bought didn't feel right, despite just having tracking done. Releasing the brakes at traffic lights just before it stopped felt like the brakes were still on. Ladders revealed toe was way out. Adjusted it myself with frequent follow-up checks on tyre wear. Six years later and front tyres were wearing evenly.
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Ladders revealed toe was way out. Adjusted it myself
>> with frequent follow-up checks on tyre wear.
Seen too many bored yoots aligning cars, make adjustment often one side only but fail to push car back then forwards again to settle the tyres etc before rechecking.
Had very good results doing mine and others manually, i don't suggest my Heath Robinson measuring sticks would ever compare to real equipemnt, but a sight better than the best equipment in the hands of someone disinterested.
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Has anyone ever had one of these free alignment checks and it has needed no adjustment, hence it really was free?
Setting the tracking is only ever any good if you have made sure that there is no play or wear in any of the steering/suspension joints. Also it really should be done with new tyres fitted as aligning the tracking with a set of worn tyres can give you a false perception of it being 100% right.
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Has anyone ever had one of these free alignment checks and it has needed no adjustment, hence it really was free?
Yes, at least twice. I used the free check to see if my visual method was right. As it was, carried on doing it myself when needed.
However, despite the four wheeled Morgan being the same as a land rover in terms of what one adjusts, the tyre place I went to had not a clue how to adjust it, and when I patently knew what I was doing, let me use their kit and get on with it.
Last edited by: Slidingpillar on Wed 9 Oct 13 at 10:32
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>> Take it in get it done right £25.00
IIRC, Dave's not in the UK though.
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Told in the past to drive the front wheels over a magazine(shiny pages not a newspaper);if it's undisturbed tracking is OK.
Last edited by: jc2 on Wed 9 Oct 13 at 11:17
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>> Told in the past to drive the front wheels over a magazine(shiny pages not a
>> newspaper);if it's undisturbed tracking is OK.
>>
That's ingenious. But I thought the point of the toe in or out was to allow for the slight distortion in the steering linkage when the vehicle was actually moving, compared with the position at rest?
ie a rear-wheel drive car usually has its front wheels set slightly toed-in, because they splay outwards at speed, whereas a front wheel drive has toe-out, because the drive pulls them inwards.
Is that true?
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>> I thought the point of the toe in or out was to allow for the slight distortion in the steering linkage when the vehicle was actually moving
I understand toe is to aid stability and also to even tyre wear caused from camber angle. Think negative camber, top of tyres leaning in, toe-out will compensate.
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When you look in detail at any aspect of suspension setting, you find that everything is inter-linked.
However, the dominant effect that toe settings are compensating for is the elasticity of the steering and suspension system, and the primary aim is to allow the car to run freely.
The ability to tune yaw stability with toe is not particularly strong when compared with the dominant factors.
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Well I used the Trakrite yesterday. A little bit of a problem in that I don't have a concrete or asphalt drive, but hard packed gravel that isn't very even. But i found a couple of 2" thick planks, and ran the front wheels over these. A few runs seemed to give reasonable repeatability, and showed a little toe in. I gave one side a half turn on the track rod, and it showed a little toe out. Good enough for me. Took it for a run and the steering wheel is just about centred, so again, good enough for me.
But on a straight flat road it's still 'dead' around the straight ahead, preferring to either go slightly left or right. Maybe it's a feature of French cars.
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I had two MK1 Meganes Dave and they both felt very well planted on the road so I would say that something still isn't right or there is a problem with the way that the tyres are wearing.
Last edited by: Skip on Fri 11 Oct 13 at 18:52
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The front tyres are both Firestone somethings. The (UK) nearside is evenly worn, but only about 3mm left. The offside is also evenly worn but about 5mm left. A visual inspection of the wishbone bushes looks ok, and a shake of the wheel revealed nothing untoward either.
I'll try it out on a long run tomorrow and see how it feels. Tbh I'm not greatly bothered, as it's still miles better than the felicia!
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If the tyre is wearing evenly across the tread then that would suggest that the tracking is reasonably okay. Normally if the tracking is out you will scrub off either the inner edges of both tyres or the outer edges of both tyres.
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**** Update***
I finally got to the bottom of this. One of the tyres had an existing slow puncture that I fixed with a can of jollop last year. Then just recently it began pulling to the right all the time. I checked the pressures and they were ok. Then yesterday it had a vibration that came and went (like driving over the rasied white lines, at around 70mph. On closer inspection, the tyre had gone a funny shape, so took it in for a couple of new ones today.
The LHS tyre had all de-laminated inside. So with nothing more than a couple of new tyres it now tracks true and doesn't wander over the road. I think my parents ran it for some time under inflated, hence the damage.
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Renault Megane - DIY tracking tips - bathtub tom
