The LEC has rain-sensing wipers, as you might expect. They have two sensitivity settings, of which the lower is usually quite adequate. I occasionally need to nudge it up to keep it active in light rain. I hardly ever need to twist the knob past the higher auto setting to get continuous wiping.
Driving home this evening, however, in what, if you'll pardon the contradiction, I'll call heavy drizzle - the sort you don't feel falling on you but which leaves you thoroughly wet in a surprisingly short time - I had to break the habit. I turned the knob to the higher sensitivity but still the screen became obscured with tiny drops of water before I got another wipe. Continuous wiping was too much - made the blades judder - so I had to keep tapping the end of the stalk for a single wipe. It's probably the first time a simple variable delay like the Volvo's would have been more useful.
Having little other experience of auto-wipe systems (a long wet test drive in a 2002 Passat being about it) I wonder if anyone else has found that not all raindrops are created equal. And who knows enough about the technicalities to explain why fine rain is enough to block my view, but not to obscure the sensor?
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From my experience the rain sensor has to be kept very clean, any dirt or road film will deflect the infra-red beam back into the cars sensor fooling it into thinking that your screen is dry.
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The ones in the 3 Series are well thought out. They won't come on until you prompt them into life. This prevents the potentially damaging wipes across a frozen screen. There is a rheostat type affair, perfectly placed on the stalk. In daily use I don't even think of them. I press the little button when it's raining and for the remainder of the journey they sort themselves out.
The ones on the Mk5 Golf I had were not quite as user friendly.
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>> The ones in the 3 Series are well thought out. They won't come on until you prompt them into life. This prevents the potentially damaging wipes across a frozen screen. The ones on the Mk5 Golf I had were not quite as user friendly.>>
My 2007 Jetta is the same as the BMW i.e. the wipers only begin to operate once you have flicked the stalk. There are three or four sensitivity/frequency settings.
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My old Mk5 GTi would auto start the wipers on a frosty screen - horrible.
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Same on the Outlander. Works OK most of the time, now and then it just lets the spots build up until I give in and flick wipe.
I can switch turn the auto function position into intermittent. The sensitivity adjustment then becomes interval. But it necessitates delving into the menus.
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The Beemer is very simple then. Not sure what they're like on the V50....
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Had a similar experience this evening in our Saab. Very light drizzle, but surprisingly frequent wipes from the auto-sensing wipers. Normally they are very well behaved. They don't seem to be able to fathom snow though, which nearly always results in fewer wipes than necessary to keep the screen clear.
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My cars wiper system is operated by Brain 1.0 and finger Mk1.
Never had an issue - always wipes just when I expect it to - fantastic system!
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I don't think think the auto sensing wipers in my LEC are as good as BMW or Audis equivalent. I've also noticed that they don't cope well with drizzle, but even in normal rain I think they leave it a fraction too late before wiping. I far preferred the Audi version, where a little toggle on the wiper stalk gave you about 5 levels of sensitivity.
The intelligent lighting system (ILS in MB speak) on the other hand is brilliant - they way the beam of the light adjusts to reflect road and traffic conditions is seamless, and even the auto dipping function works OK, though again, if I'm critical, sometime a fraction later than I'd dip the lights...
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I've never had auto-wipers that I would consider satisfactory, although BMW's system is probably the best of a bad bunch with a sensitivity control in the stalk. The system is not sensitive enough though, even on its highest setting, and activates the wipers far later than I would manually.
I just wish this silly gimmick hadn't replaced the conventional intermittent wiper function on most cars.
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While the indicators on the Astra H are infuriating, and despite having driven the car for a month or so SWMBO still isn't happy with them, the variable delay for intermittent wipe is excellent.
One press down of flick wipe, and then, when ready for the next wipe, press up for intermittent, and the delay period is set.
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The auto wipers on my C5 were brilliant, those on Mrs F's old Xsara less so. I'd rather have them than not.
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The auto wipers with sensitivity adjustment on the Accord work - to me - surprisingly well. I'm a convert.
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The Xantia ones were excellent. The ones fitted to the C5 are turning out to be just as good. They seem to adapt perfectly to the conditions.
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>>Astra intermittent wipe peculiarities...
Fine until you hire one and can never work out how to make the wretched things work.
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Just like the wretched Vauxhall/Opel indicators.
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>> Just like the wretched Vauxhall/Opel indicators.
Never had a problem with the ones on my Vectra. They work fine providing you know what you're doing with them and know how to operate them correctly.
The auto wipers on the whole also work reliably too.
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>> Never had a problem with the ones on my Vectra. They work fine providing you
>> know what you're doing with them and know how to operate them correctly.
Well, quite. MM and I were talking about jumping in to hire cars with the blasted things. If you're not aware that they are over engineered and pointlessly different from proper, simple indicators, it can be a real distraction and a bit of a problem. I had an Astra H estate on rental in Spain once, even once I worked out how to operate them, I'd forgotten again by the next time I got in the car. No need for it, they provide no extra assistance or functionality, if anything they're worse than proper ones.
You are a VxFan. Most of us never enter the blimmin' things unless we have to.
Yours,
A VxHater
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>> They work fine providing you know what you're doing with them and know how to operate
>> them correctly.
Is it right and sensible to make your car almost impossible to drive without reading the instruction manual first of all?
I've driven a lot of Vauxhalls in my life; the last one I owned was a '99 Vectra. I hired an Insignia a couple of years ago and couldn't work out how to make the handbrake work at all. When the hire company lackey dumped it on a double yellow line in the centre of London and threw the keys at me and disappeared. Fortunately somebody queuing in the office new how to do it.
And here, I hired another one, and could not work out to hill start it.
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?t=11363&v=f
Meanwhile earlier this year I hired a Jazz. I've got an 8 year old Accord that has nothing complicated on it, and drives like an ordinary car. So did the 2013 Jazz.
It sounds to me as though Vauxhall spend their lives trying to solve problems that don't exist, in order to irritate their customers.
Edit to add I see that Alanović has written a similar diatribe.
Last edited by: Mapmaker on Tue 12 Nov 13 at 13:10
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Vauxhall aren't the only ones this type of indicator stalk set up.
BWM, Mercedes, Ford, to name but a few, also use the same/similar set up.
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Then they should also be burnt with fire.
Never seen it in a Ford, haven't ever driven a Merc and only ever driven old BMWs.
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>> Then they should also be burnt with fire.
>>
>> Never seen it in a Ford, haven't ever driven a Merc and only ever driven
>> old BMWs.
>>
Agreed god awful things, why anyone vx thought it was a good idea I don't know. I remember when they first came out on the pool cars which were vx at the time. Often see them indicating left, right, back to left, back to...
Still see it on motorways with vxs.
Can't say I've seen them on any other car either.
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>> Often see them indicating left, right, back to left, back to...
Not if you flick the indicator stalk to the same direction to where its indicating. Then if you're too heavy handed (and that's half the trouble) at least you don't end up putting the other side on while trying to manually cancel the indicators. But you shouldn't need to manually cancel them if you weren't too heavy handed in the first place and only wanted to use the change lane feature.
>> Never seen it in a Ford
The Focus pool cars and Transit Connects at work had them. Slightly different set up (in that the stalk didn't return to the centre after pressing for a full indication) but still had the lane change feature if you tapped them lightly - not that the heavy handed would notice.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 12 Nov 13 at 14:06
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>> >> Often see them indicating left, right, back to left, back to...
>>
>> Not if you flick the indicator stalk to the same direction to where its indicating.
>> Then if you're too heavy handed (and that's half the trouble) at least you don't
>> end up putting the other side on while trying to manually cancel the indicators. But
>> you shouldn't need to manually cancel them if you weren't too heavy handed in the
>> first place and only wanted to use the change lane feature.
>>
Exactly too complicated. Clearly you're a fan, not me personally I always found them annoying and over complicated for no real gain.
>> >> Never seen it in a Ford
>>
>> The Focus pool cars and Transit Connects at work had them. Slightly different set up
>> but still had the lane change feature.
>>
What age Connect, we have some at work. But they are quite old.
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>> Exactly too complicated.
Only for luddites and technophobes.
>> Clearly you're a fan, not me personally I always found them annoying and over complicated for no real gain.
I actually find it harder going back to the traditional and out of date indicators. Especially if they don't have the lane change feature.
>> What age Connect,
2010 I think ours was. Got a crappy Berlingo van now.
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>> >> Exactly too complicated.
>>
>> Only for luddites and technophobes.
>>
Well I don't think I'd class myself as that. There's a difference between new technology and making something different for the sake of it. Infact if I think back (we've got kias now) I can't think of anyone that was a fan, they'd catch nearly everyone out. I honestly can't think of anyone who thought they were good.
You are fair enough, not a great a fan of vx anyway so it's not something I'd have to bother fussing around with.
>>
>> >> What age Connect,
>>
>> 2010 I think ours was. Got a crappy Berlingo van now.
Ours were the first ones that came out. I never used them outside the site at work so didn't really use them much. Same here they are all going for Berlingos not driven it yet.
>>
Last edited by: sooty123 on Tue 12 Nov 13 at 14:22
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I don't consider myself a luddite. I love gadgets, and especially in cars when they either serve a purpose, or are simply "cool". The BM is bristling with gadgetry that I love. The timer function on the heater blower that can give me an automatic head start on defrosting on winter mornings while I'm still inside with a warm cuppa, the way I can play music off a flash drive instead of pratting about with discs, the little green "bug" that scoots round the perimeter of the speedo and settles on the cruise control's target speed, the three red men, (one for each rear seat) that appear on the odometer display on start up, and turn green to let me know each rear seat occupant (kids mostly, in my case) are belted up securely, the flawlessly brilliant Bluetooth phone integration that seems so much more consistent, intuitive and responsive than those I've tried in other manufacturer's cars etc etc. I love all this stuff, and would miss it. I don't even hate electronic parking brakes. A handbrake is on or off, so what does it matter if it's on a button rather than a lever?
Those infernally stupid indicators though. All I would miss about those is that I didn't get the opportunity to meet the person responsible for designing them, and communicate my displeasure. I thought they were awful when I took delivery of the car. 32,000 miles later I still think they are awful. An answer to a question nobody asked, and apart from the lane change function, which you could almost do with conventional indicators anyway, I see not a single advantage over a traditional system. In fact, if a traditional set up self cancelled with the randomness this does, I'd have it in to be looked at.
Last edited by: DP on Tue 12 Nov 13 at 19:55
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I agree unless you are hard of understanding that "they work fine providing you know what you're doing with them and know how to operate them correctly." The indicators take just a few goes to understand (even if you don't read the manual) particularly the flick required for lane change mode. The intermittent wiper delay is quite brilliant, better than any rotary knob.
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The only experience I have had of auto wipers has been on our string of Peugeots. They work fine on our 508SW as they did on the 407SW that preceeded it (this is despite my OH using the wipers to clear 6" of snow off of the screen !!!). We also had them on a 307 some years ago which again worked ok. However the set up on my 207 which I have just traded in was never satisfactory, they allowed the screen to get too wet before they kicked in and always seemed to be going to slow for the amount of water hitting the screen. The dealer updated/re-loaded the software when it went in for a service but it made little difference. I always seemed to be overiding them.The last straw was when overtaking an artic on the M2 bridge over the River Medway in torrential rain when it decided to go down to intermittent wipe and for a few seconds I lost all vision. After that I always used them manually. Fortunately they seem to work ok on my new 308.
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>> The indicators take a few goes to understand
Sorry - what's the advantage over 'normal' self-cancelling indicators?
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>> >> The indicators take a few goes to understand
>>
>> Sorry - what's the advantage over 'normal' self-cancelling indicators?
Our 2013 Berlingo has what feel like normal self cancelling indicators. However, if you just flick them they do the four flashes lane change thing. They don't stop whan you release. I'm really not sure why or what the 'USP' is.
I'd much rather they flashed for exactly as long as I hold the lever down and stop as soon as I release it.
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>> I'd much rather they flashed for exactly as long as I hold the lever down
>> and stop as soon as I release it.
And that's the Bullseye.
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>> >> >> The indicators take a few goes to understand
>> >>
>> >> Sorry - what's the advantage over 'normal' self-cancelling indicators?
>>
>> Our 2013 Berlingo has what feel like normal self cancelling indicators. However, if you just
>> flick them they do the four flashes lane change thing. They don't stop whan you
>> release. I'm really not sure why or what the 'USP' is.
>>
>> I'd much rather they flashed for exactly as long as I hold the lever down
>> and stop as soon as I release it.
You'll probably find that it does, unless you release it immediately. That's what the Outlander does by default (it's configurable).
A movement to the first resistance and release gets me three flashes, handy for lane changes on motorways. If I hold it for more than a second or so it will stop when I release it. If I push it through the click it stays put until and unless it self cancels (which seems to require more lock than I normally use).
It didn't take me long to fathom and it's not as counter intuitive as having to push agian in the same direction to cancel, which is where Vauxhall cocked up.
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>> It didn't take me long to fathom and it's not as counter intuitive as having
>> to push agian in the same direction to cancel, which is where Vauxhall cocked up.
You don't have to push in the same direction to cancel, but if you're ham fisted or too heavy handed then it's best to do it that way to prevent flashing in the other direction.
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I had these in the X1 and the current 3 series. I find them perfect, hadn't even thought about using them !!!
Seriously - they are well weighted and totally intuitive in the way the work, I tend to over-indicate and have to remind myself that they are only there to inform or warn other drivers...but I can see no issue with them and think of them as progress.
The indicators on the GS are meant to self-cancel but irritatingly don't - been the same on the current and the original 04 GS I owned. I found on the first GS that they worked after being soaked in mega-rain, bizarrely they did the same on my current bike after a deluge on the M6...most odd. Damned annoying, an uncancelled indicator on a bike can be fatal.
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>> Sorry - what's the advantage over 'normal' self-cancelling indicators?
It's my understanding that the press once for 3 (or is it 4?) blinks of the indicator is to provide the legal minimum required somewhere on the continent, when you're about to overtake/change lane.
Thus there's no "pay a fine for not indicating as required": I pressed the indicator and it did enough.
Google may have a different version of events.
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>> I agree unless you are hard of understanding that "they work fine providing you know
>> what you're doing with them and know how to operate them correctly." The indicators take
>> just a few goes to understand (even if you don't read the manual) particularly the
>> flick required for lane change mode.
I think you are agreeing that they make rubbish hire cars. It's when you pick a car up from Victoria station at 6pm on a Friday night when it's raining and dark that you *need* to be able to make the car work without having to experiment first.
Downright dangerous. (On a hire car.)
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I delivered quite a few Vauxhalls and I never got to grips with the electric handbrake or the cruise control. Never had time to RTFM!
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The LEC has the touch-to-change-lane indicator mode too and I wish it didn't. Remember that MB wilfully and pointlessly crams lights and wipers on to a single stalk - clever, perhaps, but not useful - forcing the flick wipe and washer functions on to a button on the end because pulling the lever is taken by the headlamp flasher. OK until I catch it slightly wrong (presumably through being heavy-handed, hamfisted or whatever epithet any over-defensive MB fanboyz want to apply) and nudge the button sideways rather than inward. Cue clicks I wasn't expecting and I'm signalling left. Oops - better cancel that; oops, now I'm signalling right. Three flashes either side and I only wanted to wash the screen.
I'd mind less if I ever used it for changing lanes, but I prefer four flashes to three - five or six if I'm moving into a lane with another busy lane beyond it - so I just hold the stalk against the (nicely weighted) spring instead. Works fine. ST, will the dealer disable the lane-change through Star if I ask?
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Ah thats what that second wiper position is for? Often wondered ! Guess I could have read the manual...
Agreed, the wipers never come on when I want them to or go off when I think they should. I'd prefer a fully manual control.
I kind of like the auto dipping headlights on mine though.
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That's the beauty of the BMW system, the auto function needs to be enabled after every re-start. So you can just use the manual wipers if that's what you want...
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>> That's the beauty of the BMW system, the auto function needs to be enabled after every re-start.
Ditto my Vectra. Always default to off when you stop the engine.
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ST, will the dealer disable the lane-change through Star if I ask?
>>
Not sure... will try and find out if possible to disable...
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Same with the Golf, number of flashes and duration of flashes can be altered VAGCOM or the Dealer if asked nicely.
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Auto-wipers: how easily fooled? - Rudedog
