I have unfortunately suffered a hankering for a Citroen CX 25 GTI Turbo2. In black.
The thing is I have no idea why! Maybe it's the quirkyness, or the space age dash, smooth ride (I presume - I've never been in one) or power. Who knows but I keep searching the net for one and I can't shake it. I'm know it would be an expensive hobby to own but ingnoring common sense I'd be interested to know your views on them?
Future classic? Modern day DS?
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They're pretty quick by standards of the day, but perhaps not so by modern standards, 130 BHP or thereabouts. Of course, it's possible to extract (much) more - there is a modified one, running about 400 BHP.... :-) Prices are on the rise, so future classic - probably never in DS range, but a strong following no doubt. Never driven one either, but they can be hot and noisy - and they rot, and the elctrics can be a nightmare, and the clutch change is evil on one of these (engine out!). Typical French then - what's not to like!! I fancy a DTR 2 Safari, but it would be criminal for regular use on Scottish roads, and I don't have warehouse to keep one in!
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Ooohh yes!
A black CX GTi Turbo 2. Extremely tasty. I think that in their day they were the fastest French car, or fastest 4-cylinder car, or both? I nearly bought an earlier CX GTi a while back (chrome bumpers pre-facelift) from Roger Bradford who was a CX specialist. They are so different to drive from modern cars in so many ways. There are plenty of knowledgable people out there who can help if you do fall for one.
My fear was that I would be out of my depth, having the enthusiasm but not the knowledge/skill/time to own one.
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My pal had a GTI turbo - a hell of a machine. His father-in-law had the long wheelbase top of the range CX, which was also rather nice.
If you succumb, don't forget to budget for the tyres or to change the wheels. They are (IIRC) Michelin TRX metric sized and painfully expensive.
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>> They are (IIRC) Michelin TRX metric sized and painfully expensive.
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eek! Over £300 each. That explains why I've seen cars with non standard wheels and a set of original rims advertised with the car. If I had a CX it would have to have be all original. It's not as if the tyres will be replaced on an annual basis rather on age.
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According to 'How many Left' there are 25 taxed and 59 on SORN of the CX25 GTi Turbo.
Good luck on your hunt!
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2 for sale on carandclassics - although neither are black. Both look nice though...!
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I wonder what's a typical ratio of SORN to live for cars of this age. Without checking, this one seems high, which suggests to me that the CX is towards the romantic end of the spectrum - people like the idea of one, but having got hold of one, find that they've bitten off more than they can chew, still can't bear to write it off, so end up with a never-completed 'project' in the garage.
For the record, I love the idea of a CX too, but I see them so rarely now that my mental image is of sleek and sharky CX25s and Prestiges in the early 1980s. Seeing one close-up today in its true 30-year-old state might come as a shock.
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A CX in good condition is a pretty capable motor. Of course you have to be French to know how to treat it.
Just to be boring - sorry - I will repeat that I once arrived at Orly from Africa, on the same plane as a French TV crew. A black CX estate with driver had come to meet them at the airport, and they kindly gave me a lift into town. Four of them, me and the driver: six people. The boot with its much-admired boxy shape and low loading level stuffed with their equipment, cameras, batteries, all those aluminium boxes, looked like half a ton of stuff.
The driver punted out of the airport onto the autoroute and within seconds was weaving towards Paris at a very relaxed 100mph, maintained until my turning off the Périphérique. Got there in no time.
Chapeau!
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As someone who ran several many years ago when they were much newer I'd say only consider one if you are prepared for a massive maintenance budget... and a bit of travelling to someone who knows them inside out. By chance I am under a mile from such an outfit.
Also drive one before you get too excited... you may hate their feel. I loved owning them and similarly the DS model was a delight. As AC and I have agreed in the past you have to have a real feeling for their way of going to drive them briskly.. bit like sailing a boat.
Edit: That black one is quite near Pat at a dealer I know of, has quite a few pass through his hands.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Tue 17 Dec 13 at 15:03
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Yes, here's one that's already sold for not too bad money IMO
tinyurl.com/odg2m8v
edit: Apols, that was in reply to RichardW
Last edited by: Enoughalready on Tue 17 Dec 13 at 15:00
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>> According to 'How many Left' there are 25 taxed and 59 on SORN of the
>> CX25 GTi Turbo.
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>> Good luck on your hunt!
>>
There's certainly no rush. I need to sell a house first but I have for many years kept an eye out for a late 70's Audi 100 GL/CD5E auto only because I had one in my yoof and have sort of given up because there's so little about.
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Did you mean the second series with the 5cyl engine? I very much liked this earlier GL model and would jump at the chance to run one again...
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/80/Audi_100_C1_2_door_Garmisch-P.jpg
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>> Did you mean the second series with the 5cyl engine?
Yes, the C2 5cyl. 2.2i Auto. I like the C1 too and have driven many in the past but only because of memories like 1st girlfriend, huge back seat (ehem) and the kickdown at 50 was, at the time, super (was going to say 'awesome' but I hate that word). I would expect to be bitterly disappointed if I had found one, some things are best left as memories and the same probably applies to 1st girlfriends.
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I had completely forgotten about a Citroen I owned donkeys years ago. I think it was a CS Pallas? A 5 door hatch from memory, 1200cc engine. I'm away to google it now....that might take me up to 50 cars in my lifetime, obviously not very memorable.
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Found it. It was a GS. My brain cells are going, although I vividly remember the father of a friend of mine owning a Safari. He picked us up at Robin Hoods Bay after we completed the Lyke Wake Walk, probably mid 70s, and drove us back to Bradford in double quick time. I thought that car the puppies privates.
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Near where one of my friends live, I recently saw this odd-looking car, never seen anything like it before. When I looked closer it was a Citroen CX hatchback. It's in quite good condition, a bit of rust here and there and it looked quite misted up inside. I couldn't see anyone inside so put it down to the recent damp weather :-)
It was sitting really low on the ground, I gather it rises up when the engine starts.
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A friend, a quite well-known South African film maker, had a very nice silver GS Pallas when he lived in Golder's Green, up the road from my very old gaff in West Hampstead... I drove it about, a bit gingerly. I dearly love an aircooled flat engine. And Citroen hydropneumatics were always cute when working properly.
Lionel Ngakane, a great guy, a regular at Carnival, an Africa hack colleague too, playful, a real charmer.
Introduced me to some ANC grandees in Algiers once, on the fringes of, gulp, a Non-Aligned Conference on Namibia was it? I'm ashamed to say I forget... can't remember who the grandees were either although one or two of them are still big names. All the hacks drank like fish a lot of the time. You could always get the name lists off the agency wires when you were doing your guff later.
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>> Found it. It was a GS. My brain cells are going.
>>
They are indeed, the GS is a 4-door saloon or 5-door estate. Replaced by the GSA, a 5-door hatch or estate
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Seemed to remember they are quite common when I was growing up. I also remember my neighbours BX, it was a B reg (this was around 1991) and it spent most its time going "chi chi chi chi chi" rather than actually firing up.
Always loved the old mad Citreons though.
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I know a guy who still runs a 1989 BX 14RE as a daily driver. Bulletproof TU engine, very rot resistant, and remarkably reliable.
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Had a new 16TRS, the 1.4 engine in my brothers BX was nicer IMO.
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This was a diesel, it was used as a mini cab so I suspect it had very high mileage.
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I remember, in the 1970s being overtaken on a French motorway, en-route to St.Tropez (only to stay in a static caravan - calm down!) by a VERY quick Citroen Maserati, as I bumbled along at best flat-out speed in a Hillman Hunter DL saloon!
BTW - can recommend Camping Parc Montana just outside St Trop. - still there to this day.
Last edited by: Roger on Wed 18 Dec 13 at 13:14
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One of my many uncles had a Citroen fetish and owned 3 DS Safari estates in a row. He lived in London. Made ideal motorway cruisers up to us in deepest darkest Scotland. When he died his Xantia top of the range had only 20k miles but was immobilised - with an immobilser fault so his widow had to be driven to his funeral - in a Ford !
The DS Safari just loped up those miles but wallowed on corners. It was expensive to maintain as the suspension etc.
Last edited by: madf on Wed 18 Dec 13 at 14:13
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>> Safari just loped up those miles but wallowed on corners.
Wrong word! DS had body roll, but only 'wallowed' when driven like a Ford... I was too rough and impatient usually to be a decent Citroen driver myself, but people with the right feel turned them into magic carpets.
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>> The DS Safari just loped up those miles but wallowed on corners. It was expensive
>> to maintain as the suspension etc.
Bit of a myth that hydropneumatic suspension is expensive to maintain/repair. Pump lasts life of car, occasional leaks are easily fettled as are the very occasional sticky height correctors.
The spheres have approx same life as a conventional shock absorber but are relatively cheap much easier to replace. They can be recharged with gas unless left too long.
Over 300k miles and 24yrs with 2 x BX and a Xantia I've replaced/regassed around 8 spheres replaced one height corrector and had just one major leak.
The key is to get work done ONLY by a dealer or other specialist. Techs who don't understand it should be allowed to monkey about with it.
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I recall looking at a 2001 Xantia Exclusive estate with a view to buying one. It was immaculate despite its 100k miles and came with a full service history. And I mean FULL
Receipts and itemised invoices for tyres, suspension parts, new spheres, new suspension pump, new rear wheel brakes and all the associated gubbins (corrosion). New front disks, new exhaust, new clutch.. etc etc.
I thought it was wonderful.
And then I decided to quickly estimate what all the invoices added up to. Including maintenance and tyres and repairs, the cost over the past 5 years turned out to be just over £3,500. Or £700 a year. All done by an independent specialising in Citroens.
At that point I decided not to bother.
Incidentally I went to the funeral of my aunt - the wife of my DS loving uncle. They lived in Scotland. He was in a wheelchair and was late to the funeral. His children planned to take him in his immaculate Xantia Exclusive to it - but the immobiliser was faulty and it would not start...So they ended up borrowing a Minibus of some sort..
Seems quite sad really.
Last edited by: madf on Tue 14 Jan 14 at 11:54
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My mothers Audi Coupe is probably the same. She's with it in France and the car has been reliable but they spend unlimited amounts of money on it unnecessarily. It's a spotless 1984 model but I had a look through the paperwork file for it and couldn't believe the amount they were spending on it. I queried £300 for a battery and my 83 yr old Dad said the old one was fine but thought he ought to change it just in case. I did tell him he was being taken for a ride.
That review in quite Clarkson like. Going on about horsemeat and smoking a Havana in it!
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I liked this line in the magazine article:
Chantilly is famous for its horses and so we ate some...
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>> I liked this line in the magazine article:
>> Chantilly is famous for its horses and so we ate some...
>>
And why not. Provided you know what it is horsemeat is very good.
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Here's a very thorough road test of a CX GTi in 1977 from Autocar uploaded to Julian Marsh's excellent website. As a matter of interest Julian currently runs a C6 Exclusive.
www.citroenet.org.uk/miscellaneous/cxgti-77-autocar/autotest.html
The conclusion is very fair and says it all...
This is the fastest of the Citroën CX range, a car perfectly capable of being cruised all day long flat out, carrying its passengers in near-perfect comfort. There can be little doubt that, as always, you either get on with the Citroën way of life, or you do not; there is no half-way house.
It takes time to learn your way about a CX, lf you have never driven one before, do not be put off too quickly. In a world where convention and standardization have been imposed on practically everything we use, the GTi comes as a great gust of fresh air to blow away the cobwebs.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Tue 14 Jan 14 at 13:33
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Yes, a Mk1 GTI - very nice.
I like the way the report bemoans the fact that you can't slam-lock the front door. Crumbs! When was the last time anyone slam-locked their car door? Another automotive ritual gone with the sands of time, and the universal use of central locking.
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>> I like the way the report bemoans the fact that you can't slam-lock the front
>> door. Crumbs! When was the last time anyone slam-locked their car door? Another automotive ritual
>> gone with the sands of time, and the universal use of central locking.
>>
Just as you let go of the door to let it slam lock you saw the keys still hanging in the ignition !!
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Quite a thorough review can be found here, including a road test
classics.honestjohn.co.uk/reviews/citroen/cx/
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Some time back there was a post to a review here of the 1976 Citroen CX Prestige. That link to Car magazine is now defunct. I have moved the "review" to driventowrite.com and here is that link driventowrite.com/2013/11/02/1976-citroen-cx-presige-review/
I am not sure why "prestige" is mis-spelled in that link!
I would suppose the difference between www.driventowrite.com and this forum is that at DTW we are writing articles on whatever interests us. We´d be happy if anyone who wants to write longer responses than you get at the more conversational forums like this chips in. Both styles are useful. DTW won´t help you find a spare ashtray spring for a 1980 Lancia Beta but we will discuss at length the meaning of the ashtray location.
About the CX: I drive an XM but have agonised over whether a CX would be more my cup of tea. In the end it boils down to the unfixable conflict that the CX is nicer but the XM is better. So, if your head rules, pick the XM and if you heart rules, go with the CX. I feel the XM is more efficient, spacious, useful and faster and more reliable. The CX is more lovely, striking, smooth-riding and characterful but more cramped, poorly ventilated and rust prone. But it also steers better. The XM is no match for the CX direct steering. I tried it once and its what motoring writers call telepathic. Move the wheel and the car changes direction without any sense of delay or rubberiness. The XM is really ordinary in this regard.
Ideally, just have one of each! But I also hanker after a Peugeot 604, the anti-CX: rear drive, boxy and conservative in every way.
Richard
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Well, that's my day gone. Thanks Richard.
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Ah yes. The 604. I have the pleasure of some extended miles in one of those in the early 80s.
Fantastic car, superb ride every bit the match of any oil sprung cit, roomy quiet and comfy. Very lazy v6 tho with a prodigious thirst.
You felt a bit special wafting around in the 604.
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Oooh yes! A 604! Happy memories of being wafted around in the rear of one by my French exchange family as a 13 year old schoolboy. Theirs was metallic bronze with tan leather seats. The family lived in Beaune but had a country house outside and Madame wouldn't spare the chevaux in getting us there! Fantastic cars - I wonder how many are left in the UK?
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>> Oooh yes! A 604! Happy memories of being wafted around in the rear of one
>> by my French exchange family as a 13 year old schoolboy. Theirs was metallic bronze
>> with tan leather seats. The family lived in Beaune but had a country house outside
>> and Madame wouldn't spare the chevaux in getting us there! Fantastic cars - I wonder
>> how many are left in the UK?
>>
40
www.howmanyleft.co.uk/?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=peugeot+604
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The 604 had a flimsy body though. Not a proper monocoque. Saw one in Paris once that had been rolled, and it had absolutely had it. Quite a lot of well-designed cars retain their shape when rolled, but not that one. Weak roof among other things.
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Citroen - Oh dear, I have a problem - RichardW
