| Motoring Discussion > The ups and downs of car makers | Miscellaneous |
| Thread Author: Videodoctor | Replies: 19 |
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New Thu 19 Dec 13 13:22
The ups and downs of car makers - Videodoctor
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In my opinion all car makers have a perceived level of quality and kudos so below is my opinion of the car makers chart. Vauxhall:- On the way down.They used to make fairly decent cars back in the days of the Cavalier and had a better quality feel than say Ford did at that time.It seems to have gone wrong with the advent of the second generation of the Vectra and has continued on the downward slope to today.I am sure there are many people pleased with their Vauxhalls but after reading numerous reports about things failing and bad customer service then this is why they are sliding down the quality stakes. Hyundai:- They seem to me to be on the way up.Their cars seem to be well built with very little feedback as to people complaining about faults.They seem to be getting better riding,more refined and,at last,more desirable looking. Mercedes:- To me Merc's of old were renowned for being smooth riding,refined and bullet proof.Now the general feedback is that they ride hard,have very little refinement and numerous parts keep breaking(injectors etc).The action that Mercedes haven't recalled their cars like Toyota would just kills the customer service for me.So the quality has plummeted but they are still asking full price on their name.I think people will wise up eventually and see the tat for what it is. (Makita drills have the same attitude.Quality tools of old,cheap rubbish today). Volkswagen:- Again similar to Mercedes.They are still trading on days of old while turning out poor quality cars that forever seem to have problems.So just like Mercedes they are on their way down the charts as far as i am concerned. Ford:- They used to make poor cars in the 80's and 90's but now seem to have turned themselves around.Their perceived quality has gone up from my experience don't have as many faults as Vauxhalls have.So to me Ford seem to be roughly staying the same at the moment which is not a bad thing. I will add more as time dictates but feel free to add some of your own and comment on the above. |
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New Thu 19 Dec 13 13:49
The ups and downs of car makers - RattleandSmoke
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I agree about Vauxhall sadly they are just a bit of a no image these days. The Adam might help the brand attract are more Youthful image though. Ford I agree too, they have an image of well made exciting cars these days. VW - Never really see the fuss about them to be honest. Audi - Same Skoda - I am not sure if they are doing enough to compete with the Koreans and other far east offerings. They have built a very very loyal fan base, but I they don't seem to be doing enough to get new customers once they die/can't drive any more etc. Hyundai - I can only go of the i10, it is not as nice to drive as the Panda, but its very very well equipped. Its done 13,000 miles now and is approaching its second Birthday. Nothing and nothing at all has gone wrong with it other than a flat tyre. Extremely reliable car, extremely good warranty, extremely good value but driving it doesn't make me smile like my Panda does. The Hyundai i30 now seems to be the stock Police panda car so they must be doing something write for most police forces in the UK to be buying them. Fiat - 5 years ago they were on the up, until the C1/107 etc came out nothing could touch the Panda in terms of build quality and value for money. The 500 was another great product, sadly in the past couple of years they have lost it. The 500 is now 7 years old and the new Panda is too expensive for what is another more than a re-skin of the existing now 11 year old model like I have. |
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New Thu 19 Dec 13 14:12
The ups and downs of car makers - PeterS
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Vauxhall is a funny one; the Astra and Insignia are both very good looking cars IMO, and the interiors are streets ahead of the Focus and Mondeo. But the rest of the range is a bit forgettable I think, though the Mokka (sp) is growing on me. I'd say that on the whole they were on the up. In contrast Ford is sliding back to me; the face lifted Fiesta looks worse than its predecessor, and the interior is woeful. The current Focus is blander than the last one, which itself was a step backward from the first one, and the Mondeo just seems old. VWs have, on the whole, come across as pretty well executed cars, though their forays into people carriers and faux by fours seem less well guided. The Tiguan seems to be Ok though? BMW, Mercedes and Audi seem to have swapped around. In the old days BMW was the car you chose because it was good to drive, the Mercedes because it was comfortable and well built and the Audi for its understated design. Today I think BMW (non M sport) covers off the space Audi used to sit in, and Audi / MB have chased after the space BMW used to own. Volvo seem to be back on the up, and not at the expense of all of their old values (though the space has been sacrificed in their large estates I think). Citroen is definitely on the up - some fantastic designs though sometimes with slightly dodgy execution. Peugeot has definitely lost the way. What happened to their style and handling? fiat seem a bit lost. As Rats says, the 500 and Panda were/are great cars, but a bit dated now. The 500L is just odd. Do they sell anything else? Though overall my summary would be that we've never had it so good. Cars have never been more reliable I don't think. Certainly I've never had a breakdown, from French, Italian or German cars. Not only that I don't know anyone who has. That covers a massive range of ages, makes and models of car. In fact I'm amazed how much abuse (or at least lack of maintenance) most cars can take!! |
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New Thu 19 Dec 13 14:16
The ups and downs of car makers - movilogo
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Rather than subjective opinion, we can look at car sales statistics and see which ones are doing better. www.smmt.co.uk/2013/12/november-new-car-registrations-overtake-2012-full-year-total/ |
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New Sat 21 Dec 13 21:10
The ups and downs of car makers - Victorbox
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>> Rather than subjective opinion, we can look at car sales statistics and see which ones >> are doing better. >> www.smmt.co.uk/2013/12/november-new-car-registrations-overtake-2012-full-year-total/ So Corsa and Astra doing very well plus Insignia in the top 10. |
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New Thu 19 Dec 13 16:39
The ups and downs of car makers - WillDeBeest
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Today I think BMW (non M sport) covers off the space Audi used to sit in... I was thinking something similar, Peter. BMW seems to have subtly reinvented itself as thoughtful, even understated - its market- leading fuel efficiency may have something to do with this - to the point where I'm seriously drawn to one in a way I would not have thought possible ten years ago. Then I sat in a 3, didn't like the space or the salesman, and happily chose a Volvo instead. Meanwhile, Mercedes's design direction, inside and out, has gone badly wrong. Outside is a matter of taste - and a recent trip to Asia made me wonder if brasher tastes in those markets are influencing MB's stylists - but inside is about comfort and ergonomics and the new C I drive for a day in March was overdesigned to the point of being barely drivable at times. Even a complex car should be simple enough on the surface for anyone who knows the basics to drive easily, and this one just had too many touchscreens, graphics and colours to work well from the start. BMW, to its credit, has kept things simple inside, which is why I'm likely to try a 5 estate before I consider replacing my old E with a new one. No strong feelings about Audi for me, except that I think they overdo the red LEDs, which always makes me think of Argos and Binatone, circa 1982. As for sales, Movi, I've not looked, but you could probably use them to make a case that Vauxhall is still riding high. Never mind that a private buyer probably has to ask his Vauxhall dealer (shudder-inducing phrase if ever there was one) to remove the factory-fitted green rental sticker from the tailgate. No, there's more to this than raw sales numbers. |
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New Thu 19 Dec 13 20:50
The ups and downs of car makers - Boxsterboy
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I agree Will, Merc styling has really gone down hill, whereas BMWs have, mostly, improved since the low of the Bangle era. I used to own a 203 series C class, and a 211 e-class. I could live with the current C, but not the E, and as for the CLA! Yuk doesn't even come close. I think car quality is closer no than it has ever been - the margins are so tight, although the more profitable German manufacturers clearly have more to invest in R&D. |
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New Thu 19 Dec 13 14:43
The ups and downs of car makers - Duncan
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>>The Adam might help the brand attract are more Youthful image though. >> Sorry Rattler, I don't know what that means. |
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New Thu 19 Dec 13 16:34
The ups and downs of car makers - Manatee
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>> >>The Adam might help the brand attract are more Youthful image though. >> >> >> >> Sorry Rattler, I don't know what that means. I think he means it might be perceived as a bit more with it, man. Actually I hadn't a clue what an Adam was until I saw one the other day, and it made such a deep impression on me that I can't remember what it looked like. Unless we've driven these things, we are really just giving our perceptions based on old experiences, the effect of the PR, styling, and bits and pieces heard in the pub and posted in places like this. I agree with most of the opinions above, but I don't think I've been in a Ford, Peugeot or a Vauxhall for literally years, I last went in a Hyundai (Getz) in Athens in 2004, a Skoda when I tested a Superb in 2010, a Kia never. While I have the same perception of Citroen making a resurgence probably based on seeing the DS versions, I saw an article a week or two back that said PSA is having a terrible time - can't recall where but the gist is here - www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25362490 |
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New Thu 19 Dec 13 22:25
The ups and downs of car makers - mikeyb
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PSA's issues are that they didn't really exploit the emerging markets quickly enough, and remained too focused on the domestic European market. In parallel the French became more discerning and started to look outside of their domestic producers |
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New Thu 19 Dec 13 22:54
The ups and downs of car makers - R.P.
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| I was thinking of my BMWs.....the last two certainly have not been trouble free.....I would have to think hard about getting back to the brand. Post sales service has been very good at Haliwell Jones in Llandudno Junction....My wife bought the Volvo V50 - one minor glitch apart has proved to be of sterling service over the last two years. It's a stonking motor that 177bhp five. The build quality of the V40 I'm getting appears to be on a par if not better than the BMW I'm going to sell. Passive and active safety tech seems incredible on this one I'm getting. I see the smaller Fords as very bland....difference between a Fiesta and a Focus...???? The Mondeo is a fat-boy - bigger than the 5 Series it apes. I was disappointed in the Golf (the two versions I test drove last summer) neither had "buy me" flashing in my brain.....boring. |
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New Fri 20 Dec 13 07:12
The ups and downs of car makers - Dog
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>> I see the smaller Fords as very bland Estoy de acuerdo con lo que dijiste, what sort of peeps buy them I wonder ... bland? (*~*) |
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New Fri 20 Dec 13 10:14
The ups and downs of car makers - Gromit
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PSA remained too focused on the domestic |
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New Fri 20 Dec 13 12:58
The ups and downs of car makers - madf
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PSA also had an Appalling reputation for unreliability and poor quality. Most electronic bits appeared to give problems - on the Test fleet cars!. (Judging by reading the Test Reports) If they cannot get those right, what hope for the punters? |
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New Fri 20 Dec 13 14:55
The ups and downs of car makers - mikeyb
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>> PSA remained too focused on the domestic >> and the unions rather than making necesary changes to working practices. >> I think the market for Europe is much the same as France now - high demand for diesel hatches and small runabouts. The political masters issue is very true, and now they need Govt support so are even more trapped into making poor business decisions and keeping poor performing facilities. Shame really as PSA as a group have a reasonable product line up and the days of flakey reliability appear to be behind them |
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New Sat 21 Dec 13 10:51
The ups and downs of car makers - Mike Hannon
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>>Rather than subjective opinion, we can look at car sales statistics and see which ones are doing better.<< I don't think so. Statistics just count sales not owners who find themselves disappointed with what they have bought. |
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New Sat 21 Dec 13 11:16
The ups and downs of car makers - Robin O'Reliant
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>> >> I don't think so. Statistics just count sales not owners who find themselves disappointed with what they have bought. >> I wonder how many people actually research a car's reliability record before they buy? Not many in my experience. |
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New Sat 21 Dec 13 11:40
The ups and downs of car makers - Manatee
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>> >>Rather than subjective opinion, we can look at car sales statistics and see which ones >> are doing better.<< >> >> I don't think so. Statistics just count sales not owners who find themselves disappointed with >> what they have bought. Also influenced by costs, pricing, and in the near term how many they made - at the margin they can cut the price a long way before they have to pile them up on airfields. And even carp can have customer appeal, and often does - it's what used to be called, still might be, a "mug's eyeful". |
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New Sat 21 Dec 13 11:45
The ups and downs of car makers - Avant
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Interesting thread, and I'm sure you're right that manufacturers have up and down phases. It happens in other industries too. A few thoughts for what they're worth. In general I think a supplier of any goods will go downhill if they lose their USP. Citroen - I'd say on the way down because they were bought by people who liked either quirks or a soft floaty ride. The DS series have the first, not the second, and the C series seem to have neither. Peugeot could do no wrong in the 80s and 90s with the 205 and 306 - but what's the reason for buying one now? I can't think of one. Honda seem to have ben ashamed of their 'over-50' image - silly, as the over-50s are the ones who are more likely to buy new. The new (2007 - ) Civic tries to be trendy but simply has a so-so driving experience and appalling rear visibility. On the way down I fear, a pity as they provide employment in Swindon which needs it. Skoda have been threatened in their corner of the market by the Koreans, but have you noticed that Hyundai and Kia prices have crept up (except for the i10 and Picanto) so that they can't play the value card as effectively as before. Skoda still score by being cheaper than VW and Audi with products which are just as good, and dealers who tend to be family-owned. Vauxhall will always sell to fleet managers whose job is to get the best financial deal for bulk purchases. What the cars are like to drive doesn't come in to it. That's why the stats tell us only so much. I think BMW have been clever. They still ensure that their cars appeal to road testers by their exceptional handling on twisty B-roads, but they have clearly worked out how to sell to fleets as well - hence the top-10 placing for the 3-series. I suspect that low depreciation rates are significant here, as with Audi. Finally I think the Leon may be the saving of SEAT: a cheaper Golf alternative for those who don't want the extra size of the Octavia. The Audi A3 is also doing well, as it costs little more than the equivalent Golf. |
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New Sat 21 Dec 13 12:51
The ups and downs of car makers - Dog
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>>I think the Leon may be the saving of SEAT: a cheaper Golf alternative for those who don't want the extra size of the Octavia Not a bad looker too IMO: www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/seat/leon-2013/ |
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