A colleague had a bit of a moment last night when her parked car rolled on a hill into a busy high street. Three blokes were holding the car whilst others went from shop to shop trying to locate the owner. Luckily she was in a hairdressers and heard the commotion and reparked it.
She would normally apply the handbrake and leave it in gear but her father, a driving instructor told her off for doing this stating it would damage the car. She claims the handbrake was on but perhaps wasnt pulled hard enough.
I can't see how leaving a car in gear could inflict any damage whatsoever.
What thinkest the panel?
|
I could imagine damage to the engine or gearbox from a sudden jolt if a car ploughed into it either from or rear if left in gear. Usually could go down as hidden damage after the body repairs have been done?
Either way, I always leave mine in gear after a similar incident involving a tree some years ago.
|
And also turn the front wheels towards the kerb (if facing downhill) or the road (if facing uphill).
|
|
Automatic cars have a transmission park lock, in my manual car I use the gearstick to select a low gear after applying the handbrake.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 20 Dec 13 at 14:44
|
When parked on the drive I always leave the car in gear with parking brake off.
I'd say damage is more likely from relying on the brake, as your colleague has found and I did when my Audi 100 rolled into a wall in a pub car park 20 years ago.
|
A normal car, I always park in gear other than in the garage. Never trust a handbrake.
The vintage car I usually take other measures (block of wood as tyre chock) as it can lean on the gearchange dogs hard enough to make it impossible to get out of gear without the engine running.
|
If you leave the car in gear and simply press the clutch when you start it, it can in theory damage the crankshaft thrust bearings because they are unlubricated until the engine has been running a while.
It doesn't seem to matter for most cars, but Westpig for one will be aware that the Triumph 6 engine is especially vulnerable to crankshaft thrust bearing wear.
But I don't image this is the kind of damage the instructor means.
|
|
Depending on the Triumph Six-many of the oil filters they used drained all their oil back to the sump-I fitted a right angle adaptor to mine that used a spin-on filter-no problems.There should still be oil on the thrust bearing anyway.I always start with the clutch down and many of my engines have passed 150,000 ml.with no problems.
|
|
I rarely park on a hill living in flat Manchester, unless I am in Stockport. When camping in Anglesey I always made sure the car was in gear. Too many cars have ended up in the sea there!
|
>>Depending on the Triumph Six-many of the oil filters they used drained all their oil back to the sump
I had that problem on a BL 'B' series, but it was due to the oil filter manufacturers not being aware of a change to the filter mounting meaning the filter was fitted open end down and required a non-return valve. Took ages for oil pressure to build after an overnight stop. I believe it cost Halfords for a number of new engines.
|
|
I saw this in Practical Classics magazine last year saying never press the clutch in when starting a car so as not to wear the thrust bearings. I was a little surprised as in cold weather I'd been doing this for over 30 years! Our pool car Focus at work even requires you to depress the clutch or it won't start.
|
Operating a plate clutch (just about all modern one are) does put a huge pushing load on the crankshaft, so I can see where the idea of wearing thrust bearings comes from.
There are some designs of clutch that don't impose a load on the crankshaft, cone clutches being the one I think of, but you won't find one on many cars, they were going out of use before the vintage period ended.
But a decent modern oil should protect one, most thrust bearings are effectively lubricated by splash anyway so the oil feed is minimal even with the engine running.
|
>> most thrust bearings are effectively lubricated by
>> splash anyway so the oil feed is minimal even with the engine running.
>>
Not quite. It gets its oil at reduced pressure from the oil forced out past the crank bearing shell clearance. If you depress the clutch it will ensure that the first oil to arrive via the bearing takes the path of least resistance, ie the clearance at the largely redundant front thrust shim, not the rear which is being sqeezed by the clutch springs.
As I said, it doesn't seem to matter on most cars, but the Triumph engine is known to have inadequate thrust bearings. Ask a TR6 owner about the consequences of the not uncommon occurence of having the thrust washers fall out because of excessive wear :)
|
>> As I said, it doesn't seem to matter on most cars, but the Triumph engine
>> is known to have inadequate thrust bearings. Ask a TR6 owner about the consequences of
>> the not uncommon occurence of having the thrust washers fall out because of excessive wear
>> :)
Or a Triumph Herald driver!
|
>> her father, a driving instructor told her off for doing this stating it would damage the car.
Not a very good instructor then, not knowing their highway code.
www.highwaycode.info/waiting-and-parking/waiting-and-parking-238
Parking on hills.
If you park on a hill you should:-
• park close to the kerb and apply the handbrake firmly
• select a forward gear and turn your steering wheel away from the kerb when facing uphill
• select reverse gear and turn your steering wheel towards the kerb when facing downhill
• use ‘park’ if your car has an automatic gearbox.
Most car handbooks also mention much the same.
And as for damaging the car, it'll do far more damage if the tin box were to roll away and crash into something because the owner solely relied on a flimsy handbrake cable.
|
Always leave car in gear. Only worthwhile driving tip I got from my Father - he'd seen his Dad's car start to roll away after handbrake failed to hold.
The handbook for the new (63reg) Berlingo says there is no need to leave in gear when parked but I've neither the faith nor willpower to change habits of a driving lifetime.
|
The Park position on traditional auto transmissions applies a transmission lock - not a brake, a positive lock - which makes use of the handbrake unnecessary. It is still correct practice to apply both I seem to remember.
Handbrake linkages are often rusty and badly maintained on elderly jalopies. MoT has improved things there, but handbrake tests aren't very demanding.
|
Manual cars should always be put on gears while parking. It does not damage cars. If anything hits your car, then it is a different issue.
The P position in automatic is quite a weak prawl in transmission and thus handbrake in addition to it must be applied.
Never heard anyone's car got damage because of these!
|
>>The P position in automatic is quite a weak prawl in transmission and thus handbrake in addition to it must be applied.
Well I don't actually know what a prawl is, and Google was not my friend but I grasp the meaning.
That aside, I was under the impression that 'P' was quite a strong lock and protection against movement, although I use a parking brake as well on a hill.
Was I wrong?
|
>> don't actually know what a prawl is,
He means a pawl, like the pawl that engages with the ratchet on a handbrake, but bigger and symmetrical - works in both directions.
I suppose some transmission locks are stronger than others. The one on my 1964 Plymouth was very strong indeed... applied it when the car was rolling once. That told me. Fortunately going quite slowly so no other damage done.
|
Thanks, I didn't know what a pawl was either, but at least I managed to Google an explanation of that.
I had a similar experience, and it was a nasty bang and the car stopped dead; hence why I presumed it was a fairly firm grip on movement.,
|
>> it was a nasty bang and the car stopped dead;
heh heh... a huge clang and a chirp from the back tyres. The instructions of course would have said, don't do that, stop, then engage park.
Obviously if you did it when going too fast, or too often, damage would result. In any case in my Plymouth it worked on the front end of the propshaft. It wasn't a big stiff button like the other gear positions, it was a lever that worked mechanically, in a vertical slot near the buttons.
I do like a nice sixties American jalopy. Relaxed and substantial, but no posh 'side' like a big European motor. No nonsense.
Liked the look of that blue AMC thingy and all.
|
>>I do like a nice sixties American jalopy.
Me too. But they're kind of an arse on the wrong side of narrow UK country roads.
|
A car of mine was damaged when a neighbour failed to leave their car in gear. Both cars written off; new garage door (where neighbour's car had gone through it); considerable damage to another car.
And when did you last hear of a car being scrapped on account of a worn-out gearbox. Almost never. (Though a friend has a horrid little Rover that's about 8 (?10) years old that's done about 60k, had a new head gasket and has a gearbox that's like stirring lumps of metal...)
|
|
If you have an old Saab,it is only possible to remove the ignition key if reverse gear is selected.Remember those?
|
>> If you have an old Saab,it is only possible to remove the ignition key if
>> reverse gear is selected.Remember those?
I've got a fairly new Saab, the same still applies.
Re: Depressing the clutch when starting - almost all the new cars we deliver require you to do that before they will turn over. If you don't press the clutch (or brake on autos) a message shows on the dashboard and the starter doesn't engage.
Which means you wouldn't be able to crank a non-starter in 1st gear to get it out of the road... Progress eh?
|
I've had autos for 38 years now. The TC ones usually had a mechanical lock in Park.
My theory is, if I park on the level, or a slight slope, I don't need the handbrake.
If leaving the car for some time I don't want to stretch the handbrake cable, so it goes out of adjustment, or have the handbrake seize on.
The instructions in the handbooks of the automated manuals I've got now (Jazz i-Shift, Smart Roadster, and Fiat Ducato Camper Comfortmatic) say leave it in gear when parking, so if it's level, or only slightly sloping I leave off the handbrake.
As the gradient increases, if I do this, and it's too steep, the vehicle will move against the engine compression-in a lolloping, slight Kangaroo hop fashion.If it does this, it's time to apply the handbrake as well!
Over the years I have hardly ever had any problems with handbrake seizure, or need for adjustment, because it's not used that much.
|
I was always taught to leave the car in gear, and as the person above says, it's in the Highway Code.
Advice from fathers should be treated with caution, in my experience.
|
>> Advice from fathers should be treated with caution, in my experience.
>>
As should the practices of children, in my experience.
|
|
I only leave my car in gear if on a slope or hill - VxFAN's post sums it up perfectly.
|
Never experienced this problem myself, but a colleague had a manual Passat with an electric handbrake and at least 3 times to my knowledge she failed to engage it when parking, resulting in the car rolling off her drive... She's got an 5 series now, and although it has an electric handbrake it's an auto so less risk!
I almost never engage the parking brake (foot operated) on my car; it's not a very user friendly set up. Though I'm similarly lackadaisical with all autos. Perhaps I'd have a different approach if I lived in an area with more/steeper hills. I will use the brake on the channel tunnel or a ferry without fail though :-)
|
"The Park position on traditional auto transmissions applies a transmission lock - not a brake, a positive lock - which makes use of the handbrake unnecessary."
These are my rules:
It is absolutely crucial to apply the handbrake once, and one only time per annum on the 5th of May (or thereabouts) when the MOT guy has my given permission to apply the brake under test conditions.
Permitted exception:
Using the handbrake to spin 180 degrees in a cul-de-sac in the snow.
A - after dark.
B - when all the curtains are closed.
C - without hitting anything.
A great pity that mine has a foot-hand-brake which eliminates all fun snow malarky. And no, I never managed an impressive 180 on my street. More like a lame 90.
|
Howl can it be a handbrake if yule operate it with your foot?
It's a parking brake ffs.
:}
|
|
Leaving the handbrake on with rear disks and washing the car - or leaving it in the rain so the disks get wet.. (for a day or longer) is a recipe for temporary seizure as pads rust to the disks. A big bang when they release.
|
Yep! - I get a bang every Monday morn after I've cleaned the Sub on Sunday.
Didn't know it was caused by the handbrake though, which I don't need to use anyway, as I leave it in park.
So thanks for that mad f, I'll give it a try.
|
>> Leaving the handbrake on with rear disks and washing the car - or leaving it
>> in the rain so the disks get wet.. (for a day or longer) is a
>> recipe for temporary seizure as pads rust to the disks. A big bang when they
>> release.
>>
You get that with some of the drum in disc setups after washing the car if you don't take the car for a quick drive to get rid of any water.
I never use the handbrake when I park in the garage, just leave the car in gear. Still got a crack from the rear brakes if I didn't dry them off after washing.
|
Parking a car in gear - damage? - nice but dim
