Heard the initial reports which initially said he was bad, then he wasn't too bad, then a 'top neurosurgeon' was flying to Grenoble.
Neurosurgeons can give advice over the phone and can see the scans wherever they are - if he was flying in it was likely because he needs to bring his drills.
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>> if he was flying in it was likely because he needs to bring his drills.
Are you sure Lygonos? Don't forget MS can afford the best attention 'just in case' and doesn't have to rely on the NHS or equivalent.
No doubt you are right. But a top name is bound to provide reassurance... and more worth suing if anything goes wrong.
:o}
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ITV report
about 1 hour ago
Michael Schumacher is in a coma in hospital after suffering a head injury in a skiing accident, said the French hospital treating the retired F1 driver.
The hospital released a statement saying the 44-year-old German "was suffering a serious brain trauma with coma on his arrival, which required an immediate neurosurgical operation".
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Ah... so Lygonos was on it, hardly surprisingly.
Schumacher isn't a big hero of mine, but respect... a phenomenal talent. Hope he's OK.
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His 14yo son was with him at the time of the accident, apparently. Poor lad - hope he's all right too.
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Tough break, apparently he has had a second operation now, hope he pulls through, not a nice way to spend the new year.
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Terrible, terrible news. I hope he comes out at the end without too much damage.
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A decent, honest, true celebrity....hope his fitness carries him through. I don't subscribe to the cult of the celebrity ...I thought Paris Hilton was a hotel....but he is a genuine sportsman...old school.
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>> A decent, honest, true celebrity....hope his fitness carries him through. I don't subscribe to the
>> cult of the celebrity ...I thought Paris Hilton was a hotel....but he is a genuine
>> sportsman...old school.
Only if old school sportsman were ruthless, manipulative unsporting cads. Which of course they were
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>> Only if old school sportsman were ruthless, manipulative unsporting cads. Which of course they were
Exactly what went through my mind...a master of the professional foul.
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>> Exactly what went through my mind...a master of the professional foul.
>>
I despised his 'professional foul' mentality, although remain impressed with his sheer ability. IMO he was good enough to not to need to cheat.
I wish him well at the moment and hope he makes a full recovery.
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It's a dangerous and slippery slope.
Funny how I couldn't stand Schumacher when my hero Senna was killed. But before the season was over, I was rooting for Schumacher right until he retired (the first time). I don't know about genuine sportsman... he would drive into his rival. But so would Senna - and that made it so much more watchable. Schumacher made it a fantastic era. I hope he's out and about soon.
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BBC News quoted doctors saying "fighting for his life".
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If they've had to remove a portion of his skull (not been specified but if they had simply drained a clot I'd imagine they'd have said so as it usually has a good prognosis) to deal with increased pressure then he really is fighting for his life: 50-50.
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One report last night was that MS was in an 'induced coma' having been conscious on arrival in hospital. My understanding is that this is a good thing when necessary, very different from a coma directly induced by trauma.
I suspect the media are doing their thing and trying to keep people worried about his state for as long as possible. Perhaps that's over-optimistic, but it's the sort of thing they do in a shameless way.
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>> One report last night was that MS was in an 'induced coma' having been conscious
>> on arrival in hospital. My understanding is that this is a good thing when necessary,
>> very different from a coma directly induced by trauma.
>>
Reading between various reports it seems he was initially talking but increasingly less rationally before losing conciousness altogether. Guess that's consistent with brain bleed/swelling.
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After a head injury you usually want a patient on as little sedation as possible to monitor how they are doing - if he is in an induced coma it's because he is in trouble I suspect.
You don't want a confused, brain-injured patient thrashing around pulling tubes out their arms/neck/brain.
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It is indeed terrible that this has happened. But sadly it probably happens a lot more often but is not reported unless a celebrity. Skiing off-piste is dangerous. But a skilled skier isn't going to stay on the main slopes I guess. And Schumacker was wearing head protection.
I hope he recovers fully - and anyone else that goes through similar of course.
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>>
>> I hope he recovers fully - and anyone else that goes through similar of course.
>>
Now there's the rub, a full recovery. Perhaps Lygonos has some idea of the prospect of that after such a serious injury. I doubt someone like MS would want to recover at all if the rest of his life was to be in a vegative state of one degree or another.
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As a doctor said to me a long time ago "I could keep you alive indefinitely, but you wouldn't enjoy it".
And recently after a general anaesthetic, "It was a bit inconsiderate of you to stop breathing while I was working on you".
It makes you realise how petty some things are and changes your attitude big time. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 30 Dec 13 at 18:28
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>>Perhaps Lygonos has some idea of the prospect of that after such a serious injury.
I know no more than what has been reported - at present he will live or he will die (obviously).
If he lives then he will either be fine, be a vegetable, or somewhere in between.
That, I imagine, is part of the buzz of being a neurosurgeon: you're never going to have a dull day working on brain injuries/tumours/etc, and you only poke around when it is likely your intervention will make a big difference to a patient's very existence.
Other than palliative care doctors, neurosurgeons see a greater proportion of their patients die than any other branch I can think of.
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That's the speciality that my niece was heading for since she qualified. I was talking to her about the low survival rates in relation to bike accidents in particular. This was much the same conclusion.
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"in a vegative state of one degree or another"
Like Zero?
But remember watching them pulling Hakinnen out in Adelaide after smacking his head against the steering wheel - skull fracture, coma and ready to drive an F1 car next season.
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>> "in a vegative state of one degree or another"
>>
>> Like Zero?
I thought that was you sticking your dick in a jar of vegemite.
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It's a funny old world.
Paid a fortune to drive a F1 car, and I think the most severe injury was when he broke a leg at Silverstone in 1999.
Then goes and participates in an unpaid hobby and nearly kills himself.
Hopefully he'll pull through, but only time will tell.
No doubt the jokes will soon be doing the rounds. I've already seen one about his former pit crew visiting him and changing all 4 wheels on his bed and his drip in 3.4 seconds.
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it is indeed a funny old world when that is seen as acceptable humour and using bit of mild swearing for comedy effect is seen as offensive don't you think?
Strange values indeed. Not mine for sure.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25558709
Press conference just finished.
Some improvement in his condition.
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Would the anonymous donator of the scowly care to expand on why it is "offensive" to merely question why it is seen as appropriate to make humour at the expense of a potentially dying man but it is unequivocally "offensive" to use an alternative word for "bottom".
To be clear, I'm not actually in favour of any revision of the swearing rules, I think they work just fine. It's the double standards I'd like to understand. Just so we're clear.
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With you all the way, Humph. Scowlies are moronic and cowardly and I'd like to see them got rid of altogether. If something is truly offensive, press the Report button, tell the mods and explain why. If you merely disagree, have the balls (mild and intentional genital reference) to say so openly under your own name.
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>> It's the double standards I'd like to understand. Just so we're clear.
I agree in general Humph, but haven't you misunderstood the Schumacher joke? It's not heartless about him in any way. It's a joke about the dedicated, machine-like, incredibly fast and highly specific service provided by pit crews. And by implication, the pit crew likes Schumi enough to go and see him in hospital. Then it snaps into professional mode at the sight of the wheels and drips.
A bit silly but to me quite funny and not offensive. We will all be cheered by the news of improvement in Schumacher's condition.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Tue 31 Dec 13 at 12:10
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Happy to be chastised AC. I've long realised that I seem to use a different measuring stick on life in general from what appears to be the majority view.
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>> chastised
Not even reproved my dear fellow. Gently encouraged I'd call it. Never felt the slightest urge to chastise you for anything you've said here. (Can't say the same about everyone, but I am in a good mood so far today, when I don't look out of the window that is).
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>> Happy to be chastised AC. I've long realised that I seem to use a different
>> measuring stick on life in general from what appears to be the majority view.
You are entitled to your view..as we all are. I happen to agree with AC on this one..and am a bit partial to black humour myself.
Most emergency service personnel indulge as do the military. They aren't all heartless people, deep down they care, but put a blunt humour upfront to hide from weariness at times.
As regards the frowny face, I sometimes use them in the absence of a downwards red thumb and can confirm there are very few, if any, times I've been genuinely offended by something.
I'm willing/able to fight my corner on anything..but..sometimes cannot be bothered, so a frowny in the absence of anything else suitable can show your displeasure.
Not me on this occasion though.
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Keep using the same measuring stick. I agree with you. There is too casual a use of language and lack of sensitivity. So I can now expect some rude words in reply !
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>> to me quite funny and not offensive.
I tried the joke on herself to see if she would be convinced by my defence of it. She wasn't, so you are not alone Humph.
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I'd like to suggest we draw a line under this now. It's not constructive and is way off topic. I'm not really all that bothered by the inane joke, I get it although I didn't want it, but that applies to a lot of things in life. The scowler chooses to continue to hide so that's up to them.
I guess in truth I was using it as a clumsy vehicle to illustrate what I see as an imbalance.
I remain ( very mildly ) curious as to what was "offensive" in my question but I can more than easily live without knowing.
Shall we return to wishing Michael Schumacher a full and swift recovery and leave it there?
That would be my preference.
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I've never used a scowly myself, I can't see the point in them. If you disagree with something either say so or keep schtum.
Back to MS, it's good to see signs of recovery in the man, let's hope if he does pull through it will be fully and not leave him dependant for the rest of his life. That's not a state I could cope with myself and for an adrenaline junkie like an F1 driver it must be ten times worse.
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Apparently a journo dressed as a priest almost managed to get access to schumachers bed side.
Absolutely b***** despicable, I'd defrock him in a very painful and messy manner indeed.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 1 Jan 14 at 22:40
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I'm no fan of him, but agree, totally.
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'Tell me, Mr Schumacher, how does it feel to... '
I don't think so. They call them journalists but that must have been a paparazzo looking for some closeups. Bild, Stern, VSD, Paris-Match, Sun, Mail etc... he could have made a small fortune, not all that small actually.
However, as Zero points out, it's not the sort of thing a gentleman would do.
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This was either a lowlife freelance photographer or it didn't happen as reported.
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....has been in an artificial coma for 24 days.
Andreas Ferbert, President of the German society for Neuro Intensive and Emergency Medicine, told a conference that the forecast "deteriorating" the longer he is kept in an artificial coma,
Neurological experts at the medical summit in Hanover were told the greatest danger for the seven-time F1 world champion is the loss of cognitive functions if he was woken up.
His lungs, immune system and kidneys could all sustain lasting harm the longer he receives the anaesthetics to keep him sedated.
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Sad news. Perhaps not definitive, let's hope so.
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A further article
... two experts - Professor Gary Hartstein, Formula 1's chief medic between 2005 and 2012, and Mr Colin Shieff, neurosurgeon at the National Hospital for Neurology and Neurosurgery in London - attempt to tackle some of those questions.
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/25938347
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IIRC, he was awake immediately after the accident.
Can someone go to coma suddenly or it was induced coma by doctors?
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He was relatively well after the impact but has bleeding on a few areas of the brain - this would cause increasing pressure on the brain (leading to him becoming semi-concious, confused and agitated) and it would appear he has had surgery to relieve the pressure (possibly a section of skull freed like taking the top off a boiled egg).
His is in a medically-induced coma because it means he won't thrash around possibly worsening his condition, to allow him not to remember being in Intensive care having tubes and wires stuck in him, and perhaps to allow them to keep his body temperature down a few degrees to reduce the long term damage suffered by the brain.
In answer to the question, he may well have become comatose (and subsequently died) had he been left alone.
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I'm sure Lygonos knows more about this than the rest of us, but I remember that when one of my sons was in intensive care, having fallen in a drunken state about twenty feet on to concrete, he had a quite large section of his skull partially detached from the rest and lifted a little to allow for the swelling of the brain inside - the extent of the cut and number of staples used to close it afterwards was quite dramatic.
Like Schumacher, he was in an induced coma (which I understand to be like a long-term general anaesthetic) to keep all his functions, including brain functions, at as low a level as possible.
Unlike Schumacher, however, he was awake 48 hours later. I was there when they woke him and it was a bizarre experience, as he had no recollection of what had happened, although some memories of it came back later. He was exhausted, the coma not having given him the benefit of natural sleep.
If I say the whole experience was scary for his parents, that is an understatement.
He has made a very good recovery, apart from some hearing loss on one side.
I understand that the longer the coma, the less promising is the prognosis.
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>> I understand that the longer the coma, the less promising is the prognosis
My gut tells me that after 4 weeks he has likely suffered some pretty catastrophic (probably mostly permanent) brain damage.
I really hope not.
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Info on coma here (see prognosis) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coma
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I see the Daily Mail (!) is saying that a French newspaper reports Schumacher is being woken out of his coma.
However, extensive research of the French media suggests nothing of the sort is happening. It seems to be based on a rumour that some medics think he is ready to be woken, but the "Schumacher team" (whatever that is) are not budging.
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>> If I say the whole experience was scary for his parents, that is an understatement.
>>
That is probably my biggest fear, as a parent. The relief when he recovered must have been immeasurable. As lessons in life, I can think of better ones (but I bet he still drinks too much at times?)
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"That is probably my biggest fear, as a parent. The relief when he recovered must have been immeasurable. As lessons in life, I can think of better ones (but I bet he still drinks too much at times?)"
We learned a number of things from this, as parents. 1. When your kids grow up you still have that "invisible cord" that links you with them, so, even though my lad was in his mid-twenties, incidents like the one described still cut deep. 2. After a certain age (16? 18?) you have to realise you cannot run your kids' lives for them; they have to make their own decisions and if you try to make them do things your way they just won't listen. 3. There is no lesson like experience - for you, and for your kids.
My lad's life took a new direction after the accident; he actually found something he really wanted to do in life, instead of drifting, and worked at it harder than he had ever done before. He decided he was going to be an opera singer, won a place at the Royal Academy of Music, got a distinction in his master's (this from a boy who scraped through a few GCSEs) and after four years there is now busy singing roles in the UK and abroad.
To say we are relieved that he recovered is another massive understatement.
He doesn't drink too much any more - he says he can't work properly if he does.
Some time I will tell you about my other son, who (again) in a drunken stupour smashed his face when he fell (fortunately not as far as his younger brother) and had to have reconstructive surgery.
Kids, eh?
Last edited by: FocalPoint on Thu 30 Jan 14 at 11:25
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Quote from BBC Sport website this morning:-
Michael Schumacher is slowly being brought out of an induced coma following last month's skiing accident, his manager says.
"Michael's sedation is being reduced in order to allow the start of the waking up process which may take long time," Sabine Kehm confirms.
"For the protection of the family, it was originally agreed by the interested parties to communicate this information only once this process was consolidated."
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F1 champion Michael Schumacher is showing "moments of consciousness" after months in a coma, his agent has said.
Sabine Kehm said in a statement to the media that he was "making progress", adding that they remain "confident".
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26885624
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Fingers crossed, I didn't always agree with his tactics in winning his first 2 championships,
but the other 5 he was simply the best.
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Hmmm - the only good news is that coming from his agent... draw you own conclusions but "spin" springs to mind.....
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I fear Schumacher is and will remain dead in all but the most technical sense.
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He has had massive brain injuries because otherwise he'd surely have woken by now. If we were to gain consciousness, he'd be severely impaired in terms of mental ability. But they tried withdrawing the drugs inducing the coma ages ago and stopped... or he didn't come round.
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Schumacher "Critical" - Lygonos
