"Middlesbrough Council said it was looking into the matter and had written to taxi operators reminding them of their obligations under the Equality Act 2010."
I don't think sending a minibus and charging for a car is reasonable, any more than a paraplegic should join a football club or a blind person enroll on a video editing course.
|
We dont know all the details.......
There's a world of difference between ringing up for a taxi and saying 'I'm in a wheelchair' and saying 'I'm in a wheelchair, send a minibus'. Is his operation minibus only ?
Im guessing if the operators' got a 9/13 seater minibus it's geared for the school run/hen/stag party trade, so he'd have to take seats out, but that's just as true for the numerous fiat ulysse type vehicles which I'm guessing you'd count as 'car'
And I think the logic behind disablilty discrimination laws is that it shouldn't cost you more to get book a taxi for a journey if you are in a wheelchair than if you aren't, and I think that's not a bad principle
Although how you manage if you are a one-man taxi operation, I don't really know
|
|
If the Council want to enforce the Equality Act 2010 they should fund the extra cost as they are the taxi regulator. I believe the Disability discrimination legislation only requires that reasonable and practicable allowances are required for disabled people.
Last edited by: Uncle Albert on Sun 12 Jan 14 at 18:55
|
Most councils have moved to the model (for licensed - ply for hire cabs) where newly licensed taxis have to be wheelchair friendly, i.e. the Eurocab.
The taxi company boss does not have a point in any way. If its uneconomic to supply a private hire vehicle, he can simply turn the fair down, citing unavailability of suitable transport, and he is breaking no laws. He is making a noise to try and prove a point and being a prat about it. What he is really moaning about is the requirement for eurocabs.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 12 Jan 14 at 19:17
|
>> The taxi company boss does not have a point in any way. If its uneconomic
>> to supply a private hire vehicle, he can simply turn the fair down, citing unavailability
>> of suitable transport, and he is breaking no laws.
He does have a point.
A disabled passenger calls up and wants a taxi..he's willing to provide it, rather than leave them with nothing.... but if they need a vehicle bigger than a normal car, he can only send a minibus..and wants paying the extra.
What's wrong with that?
|
>> >> The taxi company boss does not have a point in any way. If its
>> uneconomic
>> >> to supply a private hire vehicle, he can simply turn the fair down, citing
>> unavailability
>> >> of suitable transport, and he is breaking no laws.
>>
>>
>> He does have a point.
>>
>> A disabled passenger calls up and wants a taxi..he's willing to provide it,
But he is not is he. He's only prepared to provide with sufferance, complaints and at extra cost.
Sorry, he does not have a point.
|
>> But he is not is he. He's only prepared to provide with sufferance, complaints and at extra cost.
>> Sorry, he does not have a point.
Yes, you're right. The owner supplied unnecessarily large vehicles and charged full whack for them. That's not a service, it's taking the pee.
Another thing I remember from minicabbing is that firms come and go. A lot fail owing to unrealistic business aims and poor service provision.
All minicab firm operators, successful or unsuccessful, are uptight reactionary characters. The successful ones aren't stupid. But things must have shifted a long way since my time. Sigh.
|
Hospitals, 'the disabled' and other categories are 'account jobs' to minicab firms. From the driver's point of view these jobs pay badly, there are few tips and they sometimes have irksome requirements. That's the way it was in the seventies when I was minicabbing. On the other hand they are frequent and regular so they mean one is more often working, which is good.
I used to have to ferry vacuum flasks full of rare blood from one hospital to another, but alas no one gave me authority to break the speed limits to deliver it on time. Sometimes one had to help passengers in and out, but most often they were just monumentally drunk, if nearly always impeccably behaved. You couldn't help worrying about some of the drunks... there was a young girl once, pretty well helpless. I waited outside until she'd gone into her house, not a rapid process. But there are predators abroad in South London in the small hours. Not many perhaps, but they exist. The girl was so pathetic... and I was pleased with her for not throwing up in the car.
|
He has no point whatsoever.
We've had Disability Discrimination legislation since well before the turn of the century. My friend Paul was on the bill team for the Disability Discrimination Act and he worked with me for well over ten years, long after it got royal assent.
The company have had aeons to sort out wheelchair taxis. Even in London where the choice of vehicles is limited to the LTC product or the recent Merc rival they've managed this. Out in the sticks where the Ulysse, 'Berlingo on steroids' or VW Caravelle solutions are available there's even less excuse.
It's been done locally, if Northampton can Middlesbrough can.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 12 Jan 14 at 20:30
|
I do wonder how often disabled people, as a percentage, use taxis. If you get a taxi at Glasgow airport you have to go in a rattly, swaying, uncomfortable Peugeot or Fiat van conversion, which the council insist on for the sake of the disabled. If disabled people use them a great deal, fair enough - but do they? The bus to Glasgow city centre is no more uncomfortable, and cheaper.
Last edited by: Avant on Sun 12 Jan 14 at 20:32
|
>> I do wonder how often disabled people, as a percentage, use taxis. If you get
>> a taxi at Glasgow airport you have to go in a rattly, swaying, uncomfortable Peugeot
>> or Fiat van conversion, which the council insist on for the sake of the disabled.
>> If disabled people use them a great deal, fair enough - but do they? The
>> bus to Glasgow city centre is no more uncomfortable, and cheaper.
>>
Disabled people are a small percentage of the population. Those who are sufficiently active to be using an airport will be a larger fraction of that small fraction. My Mother for example, an 88 year old user of walking frame, has too many other health issues - cardiac, balance etc - to fly.
She is however a major user of local taxis to/from shops etc.
I've used the bus from Abbotsinch airport to Glasgow once and it was indeed quick. a function of the airport's proximity to the city and the routing of the M8 which in part uses the runway of the old Renfrew airport. I don't remember either the bus or the route from baggage reclaim being wheelchair friendly.
|
So let me get this straight.
You run a taxi firm, the vast majority of your customers, inc some disabled people, can get in/out of your saloon type cars..but..you're forced to buy larger and more expensive vehicles so that the disabled that need wheelchair access can use them as well.
Despite the fact you could provide a larger vehicle for the odd occasion that is necessary (at extra cost)
The world's gone mad.
|
>> The world's gone mad.
Of course it hasn't. What the hell do you think the london hackney carriage regulations were all about for the last 150 years? They have a: not been allowed to use cars b: hellishly expensive c:damned uncomfortable because of it, longer than you me or our parents have been alive.
And those rules were for no good social reason.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 12 Jan 14 at 21:57
|
>> Of course it hasn't. What the hell do you think the london hackney carriage regulations
>> were all about for the last 150 years?
None of which applied to the rest of the country until relatively recently. Are you telling me that all taxi firms have to now comply with this?..if so why doesn't this fellow get told this...in a straightforward fashion...rather than beating about the bush.
|
>> >> Of course it hasn't. What the hell do you think the london hackney carriage
>> regulations
>> >> were all about for the last 150 years?
>>
>> None of which applied to the rest of the country until relatively recently. Are you
>> telling me that all taxi firms have to now comply with this?..if so why doesn't
>> this fellow get told this...in a straightforward fashion...rather than beating about the bush.
As I said up the thread, most licensing authorities are making the disabled access eurocab the standard for "hackney carriages" (i.e. allowed to ply for hire on the street). Private hire (pre booked minicab) rules are different, and you don't have to provide the same standards. He can turn the fare down if he is private hire, and let one of the other type of cabs do the job. He knows this perfectly well and is making a row just to make a row.
For` example, he failed to mention you can buy a second hand Pug E7 (disabled access cab) for less than 8 grand. Not exactly an expensive 8 seater minibus now is it. Every large town is full of them, so its not as tho he is the only taxi service.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 12 Jan 14 at 22:14
|
>> As I said up the thread, most licensing authorities are making the disabled access eurocab
>> the standard for "hackney carriages" (i.e. allowed to ply for hire on the street). Private
>> hire (pre booked minicab) rules are different, and you don't have to provide the same
>> standards. He can turn the fare down if he is private hire, and let one
>> of the other type of cabs do the job. He knows this perfectly well and
>> is making a row just to make a row.
>>
>> For` example, he failed to mention you can buy a second hand Pug E7 (disabled
>> access cab) for less than 8 grand. Not exactly an expensive 8 seater minibus now
>> is it. Every large town is full of them, so its not as tho he
>> is the only taxi service.
>>
I think you are missing the point.
He doesn't have to have one..so he hasn't...I can relate to that.
If a disabled person that needs a large vehicle rings his minicab firm, as opposed to a licensed hackney carriage firm...he could up until now, either:
A - accept the fare and send a minibus, (which costs more) ..or
B - decline the fare
All that's happened is he is publicly stating he'll utilise option B automatically..simply because the local authority is expecting him to provide the same service that a hackney carriage does...which he doesn't have to comply with.
If the disabled person is unhappy with the fare of a minibus, they could ring a hackney carriage firm..couldn't they?..(which will be more expensive than the minicab outfit).
|
SQ
>> I think you are missing the point.
>>
>> He doesn't have to have one..so he hasn't...I can relate to that.
No I am not missing the point, He hasn't got one so rather than turn the fare down, he chooses to send a big minibus, that costs more than a proper hackney carriage AND charge the poor punter more AND then complain when someone pulls him up about it.
But I give up on this subject clearly we are poles apart so ill leave you to your point of view.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 13 Jan 14 at 01:29
|
>> But I give up on this subject clearly we are poles apart so ill leave
>> you to your point of view.
>>
Are you feeling OK Zero?
Last edited by: Uncle Albert on Mon 13 Jan 14 at 07:53
|
"he chooses to send a big minibus, that costs more than a proper hackney carriage"
Towbar, trailer and pilot goggles for the passenger.
Sorted.
|
>>
>> And those rules were for no good social reason.
>>
>>
I think they were so that a gentleman could use the cab while wearing a top hat.
|
The subject was aired on Radio 4's You and Yours programme around 12:25 today. I didn't catch it all as I was just about to reverse into our drive as it came on. No doubt available on catch up.
I'll listen there later but as were expecting Mrs B's cousin and her OH for lunch I'm on house duty ATM.
|
Unless the mini-bus is actively working for higher fares - in which case he can legitimately explain that he has no wheelchair compatible vehicle available - his costs for sending a mini-bus instead of a normal car are probably negligible for short journeys.
No sympathy.
|
>> Unless the mini-bus is actively working for higher fares - in which case he can
>> legitimately explain that he has no wheelchair compatible vehicle available - his costs for sending
>> a mini-bus instead of a normal car are probably negligible for short journeys.
Would it not cost significantly more in the first place?......and have to earn more each trip to pay its' way?
|
>> Would it not cost significantly more in the first place?......and have to earn more
>> each trip to pay its' way?
Yes, overall.
FF is talking about marginal cost pricing. If the minibus is idle, then he is incurring cost of capital, depreciation and wages anyway. All he needs to recover is wages, fuel, and a bit of servicing, plus a bit, to be in profit.
If that variable element of cost is lower than the standard (car) fare per mile, then he would actually be forgoing some profit by keeping the minibus idle instead of just charging the standard taxi fare.
If he has a full price job for the minibus, that's different. But if he has both a minibus and a standard taxi standing idle, it probably makes little difference what he sends.
Last edited by: Manatee on Mon 13 Jan 14 at 16:00
|
>> But if he
>> has both a minibus and a standard taxi standing idle, it probably makes little difference
>> what he sends.
>>
Diesel minibus..about 22-25 mpg.........diesel Octavia sized car, well over 40 mpg
Road tax will be more for the minibus as well.
|
|
Difference in fuel cost about 15p/mile then. Road tax irrelevant in FF's scenario.
|
|
So taking the Council's opinion to it's logical conclusion, a wheelchair should be the same price as a pair of shoes. A chair-mounted trackball should be the same price as a mouse etc..etc...
Last edited by: sooty tailpipes on Mon 13 Jan 14 at 18:48
|
|
I thought disabled folk receive disability benefits to cover extra costs.
|
>> I thought disabled folk receive disability benefits to cover extra costs.
Depends when your mobility problems began. You cannot qualify for DLA (Mobility) after, IIRC, your mid sixties though it can be paid for life if you met the criteria prior to sixties. You might get Attendance Allowance after that if your disability is so profound that you need 'watching over' either by day, night or both. But that goes beyond being wheelchair bound etc. and into territory of feeding and arxe wiping
If you get benefits for mobility they're meant to cover cost of needing taxis rather than the bus, driving or shanks's pony. They're not meant for paying ignorant PH companies double rate for stuff they're obliged to do in same way as treating both sexes or racial minorities on even terms.
|
Taxis and disabled people - Shiny
