Being a diesel driver, at this time of year I always start to think of possibly moving away from diesel
What with fuel economy dropping in winter ( additives added to diesel to stop gelling of fuel and colder temperatures), the general cost of servicing (60,000 mile service due) and starting a diesel on a cold morning sounds like a mechanics tool bag being shaken, and only driving 36 miles a day.
I am feeling the pull towards a small petrol automatic car.
I do however love the way a diesel engine pulls with its low down torque, great for start stop driving in traffic.
Come the summer i dont have any doubts with diesel engines, its just this time of year.
Am I wrong ?
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I drive both petrol and diesel. This time of year I prefer cold starts in the petrols simply because they warm up within a mile compared to 5 or 6 for the Tdi. The noise aspect I don't even notice. I don't think servicing costs are that different to worry about are they?
The economy of the Tdi makes up for any downsides, 600 miles to the tank plus lovely relaxed motorway and long trips. Although I bought this one (1.9tdi) as I love the characteristics of this engine, in a barge-like body - rather than purely for economic reasons. Probably won't have another diesel, as complexity, potential poor long term reliability and purchase cost surcharge puts me off. I usually buy at 3 or 4 years old, so am out of warranty. Will probably go petrol hybrid next. Auris estate looks promising.
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>> Am I wrong ?
>>
No.
Actually... do you mean your right to be happy in summer, or right to want to change?
Dump the dirty diesel!
Last edited by: swiss tony on Sun 26 Jan 14 at 10:54
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I've had my car just over two years / 80,000 miles. In that time I'd have spent more than £4000 more on fuel if I'd had the petrol equivalent. It goes very well (200bhp) and is quiet other than at idle with the windows wound down. No brainer for me. Diesel every time. So far so good on the reliability front and cold weather doesn't seem to affect it in any noticeable way.
My wife though does a lot of short local trips and no more than 10,000 miles a year if that. Her 1.6 petrol makes a lot more sense for her usage. Having said that, in the past I've on a couple of occasions passed on my diesel cars to her when the miles were starting to get high and in her hands they were fine for what she needed them for.
I think we probably currently have more or less the right combination for our needs and preferences though.
I like autos and torquey diesels, she likes manuals and revving the nuts off engines so we're both happy !
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You are right. Diesels take forever to warm up but are a lazy drive.
Dont forget you pay a premium for a diesel engine and more at the pumps so the real savings are not great unless you do a lot of miles.
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My diesel Mondeo has an electric heater built into the dash so i get warm air coming out of the vents within a minute of starting.Couple that with heated seats,heated windscreen and winter tyres my car is perfect for the winter months.
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Same with the LEC. I haven't gone looking in the manual for an explanation but I suspect there's some kind of electric cabin heater at work.
It means the best way to clear the windows is simply to start driving. Less hairy than it sounds: I'm fortunate to live on a quiet, straight road, so I can clear enough to see ahead and to the sides and a minute or so of heat from the engine and the mystery heater will do the rest.
Anyone who offers a cloth or, worse, a bare hand, to the inside of the glass doesn't get invited back.
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>>Anyone who offers a cloth or, worse, a bare hand, to the inside of the glass ...
Will be executed. Along with anyone who ears crisps in my car. Or puts Radio 1 on. Or changes the settings on the ventilation system.
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>> Will be executed.
That would be the least of their problems. My car is quite capable of demisting itself.
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>>That would be the least of their problems
Yes well, of course, I just thought that the pre-execution torture phase was a given and didn't bother to mention it.
;-)
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>> executed. Along with anyone who ears crisps in my car. Or puts Radio 1 on. Or changes the settings on the ventilation system.
How sensitive you all are. Can't help wondering what you would say to a friend who put his feet on the walnut veneer dash of your Bentley (someone did it to me once and I wasn't very pleased).
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See above AC, see above...
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>> How sensitive you all are. Can't help wondering what you would say to a friend
>> who put his feet on the walnut veneer dash of your Bentley (someone did it
>> to me once and I wasn't very pleased).
>>
A long time ago I used to be involved in walking weekends for teenagers and on one weekend we had an additional 'helper' who probably came for the opportunity to show off his brand new that week 2 litre Capri.
He was tasked with giving a lift to 'DK', who is a one off - it's not a case of they made him and then broke the mould, more a case they made him from a broken mould. Anyway, 'DK' was a 17 yr old labourer coming straight from a building site for his weekend in the Lakes
Jumped in the car, seat reclined as far as possible, cement covered workboots on the pristine new dashboard, opens his bag and devours a couple of pork pies, with a pack of digestives dunked in yogurt for desert.
To this day, I dont think they speak....
Last edited by: borasport on Sun 26 Jan 14 at 17:47
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That is true, but only if depreciation, the largest cost usually, is excluded from the calculations. Of course, with counter measures against particulates being troublesome, the used value of diesels may falter. But as petrol DI engines are soon to have to use countermeasures imposed (ultrafines at the same level or greater than diesel!) there will be no certainties. Buy what you like best seems to be the only constant as total costs are very similar. If fleet data on costs per mile are studied:) Currently.
Last edited by: NIL on Sun 26 Jan 14 at 12:11
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>> Am I wrong ?
I think you probably are.
Current fleet comprises a brace of Berlingos. Mine is an 05 1.9D, last knockings of the IDI generation. Mrs B has a 63 1.6/115bhp model. Not owned a petrol car since 1993.
Would have thought any mpg variation due to temperature would be small and also affect petrol. Still getting 40+ in new Berlingo with 50 easily attainable on a run. Servicing every 12.5k consists of change of oil and filter plus other filters (air, fuel, pollen) as scheduled. Possibly the petrol equivalent has a longer interval but I don't think it's going to make that much difference and diesel should lose less in depreciation.
I'm told modern petrols start at first turn of the key and run evenly before they're warm. That certainly wasn't the case last time I owned one (a 86/H BX 1.6). Changing it for a diesel version that started on the key and then ran same way all day without stalling at least once on way to station, was a revelation.
Mine, coming up to 140k mile certainly sounds a bit noisy for first few seconds on start up but it quietens down very soon. Mrs B's settles to a smooth tickover in a couple of seconds.
Having owned hydropneumatic Cits I've no trouble waiting a 15-20 after start up for oil pressure to stabilise. Time used to set heating, lights and radio then to check mirrors and adjust them if someone else has been driving.
Mine has no DPF to worry about. The newer one does but as we've done 6k miles in under four months I think we're well into 'safe' territory. With offspring at Uni in Sheffield and Liverpool and regular leisure trips to Wales, France and other places it's getting long runs aplenty.
The older one still gets its share too as it's insured for both kids to drive so drops into some of the Uni runs where we can split the driving.
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"hydropneumatic Cits"
You need to rub some ointment on.
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My mileage and steady driving makes petrol appear the better option. However, as has been pointed out, there are other considerations. Other than the DPF does having a mileage of around 8/10,000 and minimal, if any, motorway driving lead to any other problems ? I like Volvos, would prefer automatic, but they are nearly all diesels. Last year I had a new dpf for a Volvo c30 : concerned I may have other servicing issues likely. Information appreciated.
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I havent owned many diesels over the years, amazing given the number of cars I have owned, but I have enjoyed all of them.
When you buy older cars there isnt really much of a price penalty for buying a diesel, there is more of a premium on manufacturer than fuel type.
I dont feel the desire to go back to petrol even if my diesel is not especially powerful, it does have relentless pull no matter what gear you are in and most of my driving is 40-60 mph roads with little town work so off the line power doesnt matter much.
I get 45 mpg which is ok, modern diesels are a bit better, although not by as much as you would expect 10 years of technology to get you given they often fail to get anywhere near their combined figure ( my car gets near enough spot on its combined figure ).
I havent found the price difference to be that great, it costs what it costs, I dont look really, the car needs a service every 10k, like many petrols ive owned.
Fuel pump started leaking abit recently but garage said best to leave it unless it gets worse - couldnt do that with a petrol leak.
I am happy enough with diesel that I will seek out another next time around.
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I too love the torque of a Diesel. I currently have a Mk 1 Fabia Vrs which is a lovely strong economical motor even though it sounds like an old Fordson tractor. My mileage is not really in synch with a diesel though so I will probably be going back to petrol when I replace. The latest turbo petrols have not got the sheer heft of a Diesel but they are flexible enough, normally more refined and have a greater rev range. Engine makers can do great things these days and I was amazed at how flexible the new Ford 1.0 ecoboost 125 is.
The thing that is the biggest killer with the new gen of Diesels though is the particulate filters. If you do not do regular long runs they do not burn the soot off and you have all kinds of trouble. Another annoying thing about a Diesel in winter is that because they are more thermo dynamically efficient it takes longer for the heater to work so you freeze!
If you like Volvos though and do reasonable mileage (and have the money) there is a new 180bhp Volvo designed 2.0 litre 4 just launched which is said to be pretty good.
Last edited by: mattbod on Sun 26 Jan 14 at 14:33
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We bought our first two diesel cars, two Peugeot 205s in succession for SWMBO, because of the extra torque rather than financial considerations. In 2001 I moved to a job with a higher salary but no company car, so went diesel as I still did 20,000 miles a year. Recently mileage has dropped to about 12,000 pa and the last two Octavia vRSs have been petrol.
To judge by these and the Z3 I had until earlier this year, petrols have improved greatly in terms of torque and general low-down tractability. Petrols cost less and many of us suspect that the superior retention of value by diesels is coming to an end.
So you have to try your chosen petrol engine and see how it suits you. There are still some where all the best work is done at higher revs - most Italian cars, all Hondas that I've tried and to some extent the successive Minis that SWMBO has had. But the VAG 2.0 TSI in mine is a peach - the next best thing to a six.
If I should ever have another BMW it would certainly be a straight six. That's the best engine that I've tried, ever.
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I agree; the rise of the turbo'ed petrol engine means that they feel far more torquey nowadays, and they're always more refined IME. The trouble is, we're all so used to the diesel rumble that we ignore it. It's only when you get back into a petrol engined car that you notice the lack of noise. Of course you still can't beat the feeling of a large capacity 6 o 8 cylinder engine, but emissions limits are legislating them out of existence. You have got to go almost to the top of the 3 series range, and a long way up that of the 5 series, to find a straight 6 engine. And I think even then they're all turbocharged as well, so the N/A straight 6 that BMW was so famous for is all but dead...
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>> To judge by these and the Z3 I had until earlier this year, petrols have improved greatly in terms of torque and general low-down tractability.
Ignoring the Z3 part of your statement, then I think we'd all agree the flatter torque curve with plenty from low revs is a bonus of turbo petrol engines. All my cars have had a turbo engine since August 1999 - some VW 1.8Ts and three common rail diesels.
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Thanks for the responses everyone.
Some good points noted and some very mixed answers as well
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Just left my diesel Forester in for its 24,000 service and got a lift to the train with the owner of the dealership. Four years ago he had been very enthusiastic about getting diesel Subarus, now he was more cautious because of possible DPF problems. He said that the talk in the trade here in NI where diesels have been traditionally popular is that failures are getting more and more common.
He said that he would now steer buyers towards petrol unless he was sure of their mileage and driving habits and that he had seen a letter sent by Nissan to its dealers saying that diesels should be discouraged where the annual mileage is under 20,000. To add to the gloom he felt that when the new round of emission legislation came in to force diesels would become less reliable and less "diesely" to drive.
Pity since I've driven diesels since the Golf I bought in 1984.
alfalfa
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do diesel drivers suffer the same in winter - Fenlander
