I borrowed the BMW of a member of my staff this week. It has a stop start button. Why? What is the benefit?
You now need to put the key into the slot - hidden by the steering wheel - and then push a button - also hidden by the wheel - to start the car. To stop you push the button and then push the key in to remove it.
Why not simply put the key in the slot and push?
I can understand keyless entry and start but this is pointless.
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It's there so that they can charge 5 grand extra for the car.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 13 Jun 10 at 16:58
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We have a pool freelander at work - it has the same system and I was wondering what the benefit was. Still cant think of one, although I wonder if it's more secure?
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I hate them, its a stupid idea. Imagine the cost when the system fails as they get older.
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start stop buttons dont wear out like keys and key barrels.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 13 Jun 10 at 19:29
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>> start stop buttons dont wear out like keys and key barrels.
>>
but in the case of the freelander the key fob insert is motorised so will fail at some point
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>> start stop buttons dont wear out like keys and key barrels.
>>
Has someone invented a frictionless mechanical device that doesn't wear?
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Oh what a load of rubbish Zero, cmon now. The key and ignition barrel on my Carina has lasted nigh on 20 years, longer than most cars even survive. Quite why you would want one to last well beyond the lifetime of a car I cant fathom.
Maybe your just rough with keys if you have been suffering a high failure rate with you car keys.
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barrells used to fail on my old princess and mk5 cortina but now everything is so much better made however my mums 2 week old cmax needed a new barrel last month due to it sticking on and wouldnt turn the engine off
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"Maybe your just rough with keys"
How can you be rough with a key? You slip it in and turn it. How can you do that roughly?
It's not like rough sex where you can ram hard and then slap her around a bit.
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>> The key and ignition barrel on my Carina has lasted nigh on 20 years
The key on my Carina snapped off in the boot lock after only 12 years!
The best one was the ignition barrel on my Nissan Bluebird - there was nothing to prevent the key being removed in the "ignition on" position, which meant I could take it out and unlock the boot with it whilst the engine was running! More than once I drove off with the bunch of keys hanging out of the boot lock...
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"start stop buttons dont wear out like keys and key barrels."
Key and barrel is wearing out on my 406 at 170,000 miles. There's no longer a distinctive click between "off", "battery" and "ignition", the key just turns smoothly and I have to hunt for the "battery" position if I want to listen to the radio without the engine on.
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>> Key and barrel is wearing out on my 406 at 170,000 miles. There's no longer
>> a distinctive click between "off", "battery" and "ignition", the key just turns smoothly and I
>> have to hunt for the "battery" position if I want to listen to the radio
>> without the engine on.
>>
Ram it in hard and slap it round a bit.
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I'm not a fan of SS buttons and i do not want one by choice, but to be fair of all the cars i've started BMW's with this system never fail to work instantly, the Freelander's fiddly thing i could not put up with and carrying the breeze block masquerading as its plipper would give me a limp.
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When I got invited to test drive the new Astra last year at Millbrook, Vauxhall also had some other cars there for us to try as a comparison. One of which was the Honda Civic. No one told me it had a start button and it wasn't immediately obvious either. There was me turning the key back and forth thinking the starter motor had packed up and was about to ask my friend who came along to give me a bump start.
I don't know why they're being referred to as stop / start buttons though? I thought they were for only starting the engine and stopping them still consisted of turning the key.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 13 Jun 10 at 21:00
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My Mondeo Titanium X has a stop/start button.
You don't have to put the fob into anything.
You can leave the fob in your pocket,feel through the material for the open button and jump in a press start.Simples....
The power button is also used for stopping the engine as well.
The Mondeo Mk4 has been around for at least 3 years now and there aren't any common faults that have developed on the power button in that time so its proving to be reliable.
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>> The Mondeo Mk4 has been around for at least 3 years now and there aren't
>> any common faults that have developed on the power button in that time so its
>> proving to be reliable.
>>
Three years? It's practically brand new, man.
Wait till I get my hands on one at 12 years old, five owners and 150k on the clock. Then I'll let you know whether push button starters last the distance or not. Tsk.
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>> Three years? It's practically brand new, man.
>>
>> Wait till I get my hands on one at 12 years old, five owners and
>> 150k on the clock. Then I'll let you know whether push button starters last the
>> distance or not. Tsk.
Motorbikes have had start buttons for years (the ones with electric start anyway). They're left out in all weathers, exposed to the elements. I once repaired bikes on and off for approx 10 years and never come across a failed button in all that time. Can't see how a car can be much different.
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What's all this feeling round in your pocket Videodoctor? Don't need to feel anything at all for my Tit. Walk up to the car, pull the door handle, open the door - very slight milli-second delay while it recognises that you have the wotsit in your pocket. Sit in it, press clutch and Start and it's running. press start to stop (!!), get out, press little rubbery nipple in middle of door handle and it's all locked - or leave it a couple of mins and it does it itself anyway. I never touch the wotsit itself. I think you are doing it wrong!
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Thats cos you have keyless entry.Mine doesn't have this so i have to press a button.Oh the shame :-( .
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>> I hate them, its a stupid idea. Imagine the cost when the system fails as
>> they get older.
>>
I rather like them and I don't really car about the cost when they get older..... The last car I remember where the ignition key / lock mechanism failed was my Dad's 1975 Ford Escort and then many items we'd currently expect to last 10 years or 100K+ miles failed at 2 or 3 years old.
On my BMW the stop/start button works well, I'd agree it was a frippery on SWMBO's previous Civic where it was merely a 'start' button and you still had to turn the key in the ignition.
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These faintly ridiculous modern systems are only popular because many drivers remember the likes of Jaguars and many other cars that had starter buttons. I can't deny that turning the little Union key and thumbing the button in my MkII always produced a pleasant feeling, although I'm not sure what of, exactly. I don't remember quite the same feeling when thumbing the floor-mounted starter button in a Mini. Maybe it was something to do with the engine noise that ensued.
I wonder whether there was a big debate in Motocar or Popular Mechanics when the great step forward of just turning the key to start the car was introduced?
I guess it all just means that people would like to think they are still driving 'real' cars, rather than automated buzz boxes.
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when coupled with a proper no plipping keyless entry, these systems are a genuine convenience feature and a delight to use.
I have had one, I dont at the moment. And i miss it.
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The only car I have owned with a starter button was an early Mini, (the real original one), it had one on the floor.
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I don't follow the naysayer's side of this.
It's still just a switch, albeit a little simpler / less fiddly to use than the key protected switch.
Add on the keyless toy and it's a no brainer, but even without the keyless it eliminates the "oops i turned the key too far while the car was in gear and i just wanted to turn on the radio", whilst bringing no new error conditions of it's own.
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Someone brings out something which is neither useful nor required.
Some experts(?) vet it as cool.
The marketing department terms it as "ground breaking"
People start believing if they don't have it, they are missing something.
It becomes industry standard after sometime.
Those who hated it initally suddenly find they are being forced to accept it.
This is true for start-stop button, space saver tyre, run flat tyre, goo instead of spare wheel, keyless entry, daytime running light, dashboard in middle of car instead of front of driver, foot operated hand brake, electronic parking brake etc.
It is not just restricted in automotive world.
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>>it eliminates the "oops i turned the key too far while the car was in gear and i just wanted to turn on the radio",
>>
My Mondeo II eliminated that problem in the 1990s.
No ignition key needed. I just turn the standard Ford radio on and to turns itself off after a hour. Simples.
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Smart key on the prius is amazing, it's keyless entry, key in pocket, touch door handle to open, get in press brake pedal (release foot operated parking brake if applied) and press start button for ignition on, move gear position lever (joystick) to P or R and glide silently away. When stopped press start button and ignition switches off and car puts itself in park (P) (apply foot operated parking brake if required), get out, touch door handle once to lock or twice for double locking.
To listen to radio (acc mode), press start button without pressing brake pedal.
Car won't lock when key is inside cabin or boot and bleeps to tell you so.
Last edited by: Kithmo on Mon 14 Jun 10 at 15:22
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My old car worked like that, and oh the fun we had when I was the passenger one day, with the smart key in my pocket. The driver dropped me off somewhere en route to home.
The engine kept running, with a strange beeping the driver didn't recognize, but after it was switched off back home, of course, that was that, so I couldn't be picked up again, especially as we hadn't organized the spare properly and that was with me too...
Last edited by: Crankcase on Mon 14 Jun 10 at 15:28
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Our old Scenic II had one, and it worked superbly as part of the "keyless" entry/start system. Never gave a moment's trouble either.
There was an initial novelty value of pressing the button briefly (as you would click a mouse button), and sitting arms folded as the steering unlocked, the LCD dash sprang to life, the glowplug pause completed, and the engine turned over and fired itself up.
The keyless system on the Scenic would warn you via the computer panel if the key went out of range. And the beeping would do your head in! :-)
Last edited by: DP on Tue 15 Jun 10 at 12:14
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My Megane has this and I enjoyed the novelty factor for a while. Then I found a cable hanging down in the drivers footwell and investigation showed it was the clutch pedal sensor for the Start button. It still worked but I had to reroute it!
I then realised it was beyond Renaults ability to make anything electrical that will last more than about 12 months... ;-)
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There is an exact counterpart to Craig's turn-the-key-too-far error. If I push Mrs dB's Toyota Verso out of the garage, I have to tell her three times first that when she presses the start button to activate the electrics so she can open the windows, she must do so without depressing the clutch pedal. If she forgets, she no longer needs my help to move the car - which is just as well as I'm standing behind it with a faceful of diesel startup burp.
A keyswitch gives you enough mechanical feedback to let you realize you've turned it too far and let go; the button is less forgiving. Nor does the button let you stop the engine while leaving the radio on, which I often do in the key-operated Volvo. I'm firmly in the What's-the-Point camp on this.
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>> Nor does the button let you stop the engine while leaving the radio on
The one in my BMW does, they all work different ways, it's a matter of implementation rather than the feature itself.
I don't have any great preference, I do like the fact that there is not a key right beside my right knee to get knocked although I never had that problem in my Saabs either.
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I would put stop/start buttons as the product of a designers "God I'm bored, what can I think of now?", Friday afternoon.
I dare say ignition barrels do wear out sometimes, just as planets get destroyed by showers of huge meteorites. But not often enough to panic over it.
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Look! they dont cause any issues, they dont cost you any more, they are not harder to use, therefore I can only assume that you are just all whinging for the sake of it.
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Is the Lancer stop start easy to use Z?
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Yup, but i wouldnt whine and moan if they replaced it with a button.
They key is a pain in the rse tho, its my first key like car key for 8 years, and it takes up room int he pocket and wears out the linings.
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Just leave the key in the ignition then. No one will steal that thing.
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Aw shucks ! You old softie you......
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>>No one will steal that thing<<
Might be a naughty taxi driver needs new wheels.
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>> >>No one will steal that thing<<
>>
>> Might be a naughty taxi driver needs new wheels.
At least mine is not a retired taxi.
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>>At least mine is not a retired taxi.<<
Retired but still going. With a key ;-)
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Keyless go i don't have a problem with the button, really can't see the point in heaving the plipper into place, (after making sure it's the right way up, a modern key with rare exceptions is symmetrical) and then pushing a button and the same to turn off then withdraw plipper (and Freelanders don't like giving it back).
The stop start button is not just a switch like we had in the good old days, pushing the button only engages the starter when the 'system check' is satisfactory....thank goodness one particular car displays 'system check' and 'key docked' at various points of the breeze block/plipper inserting process, i worried that my intergallactic journey to the top deck of the truck might leave me stranded light years from home.
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It's a shame that the stop/start button can't be linked to a remote control blipper that starts the car and sets the demister and heater on full to warm the car up for 5 minutes without having to go outside and do it. Now that would be seriously handy in winter, at least for me with my early starts. Or am I being a bit of a wimp, a man of the modern age?
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Or
>> am I being a bit of a wimp, a man of the modern age?
>>
Not at all, i've heard of this being fitted by enterprising folk but seems a bit complicated to me.
Part of my car buying checks...can i leave engine running and centrally lock doors with spare key, yes with both vehicles.
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That's an option on your BMW corax and can be retrofitted if you really fancy it(!)
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When I first got my latest company car I asked the salesman why it has a Start/ Stop button. He couldn't think of a reason. It seemed a bit of a waste of time as you still have to insert the plastic key fob thing into the place where the ignition key went in my last company car.
In the mean time I've got used to it and quite like the lack of a metal key to rip the lining of my pockets. Usefully, if you stop the engine with the button, the aircon, bluetooth, radio and navigation system continue running until you remove the plastic key fob thing. In the new 5 Series, you can either insert the key fob into a slot in what would have been an ashtray in the days when cars had ashtrays or alternatively just keep it in your pocket.
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We also had this feature on a previous car and agree it was a novel feature for a while.
But the novelty soon wore off. I remember being stranded late at night in the office car park, the car opened OK but the card was not recognised by the receiver ('Card Not Detected' message on dashboard) and even putting the card into the slot didn't coax the starter into life. In the end I remembered a trick I had used on the car to good effect in the past - get out, lock the car, swear at it and unlock it. This seemed to re-boot the electrics and fortunately this time the card was recognised and I could start the engine. It was late and I was glad I could get home.
Ours was linked to the keyless system. It always unlocked but frequently didn't lock. In the end I just used the plipper card manually.
It went wrong completely under warranty and remained temperamental until we got rid of the car - other things were going wrong by that time and the car was not fit for my purpose. In my work I must have as close to 100% reliability as possible and I had lost confidence in it.
My memories are that it has a certain novelty value but really doesn't offer any advantages and has the potential to go expensively wrong.
My current car just has a normal plipper key. For the first few weeks I kept getting out of the car and leaving the key in it but after that initial period of adjustment I can't say I miss the keyless thingy at all.
Is it really that hard putting a key in a slot and turning it?
The day when I am incapable of putting a key into a slot and turning it, deciding when and how to put my headlights, wipers and handbrake on is the day I hand in my licence.
When I bought my current car I deliberately chose the model without all the silly gadgets. To date, at 3.5 years old the only thing I've had to replace has been a lightbulb!
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TMS - wasn't a Renault, was it ?
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It was! How did you guess?
It was a Megane Mk2, an early one.
I see in the Autoexpress reliability survey it came 99/100, rubbing shoulders with its brother the Laguna MK2 at 100th position...
It would appear that maybe these models weren't quite ready when they were launched.
My family had good service from Renaults in the past which made it all a bit disappointing.
I see the new Megane MK3 is at position 11 with an overall satisfaction rating putting it in position 5. Staggering transition n'est-ce pas?
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yeeeees, they had a slight, errr Dip, shall we say. Around 2002 was the deep spot.
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I was going to ask you the same question and someone beat me to it! I had a Renault Megane as a courtesy car when my old Audi was being repaired. It had one of those cards. I remember thinking at the time 'this will probably go wrong fairly soon'. One of my neighbours has a Megane and apparently there is a concealed lever behind the door that will open it if the card fails.
>> I see the new Megane MK3 is at position 11
The operative word being 'new'. Lets see how it fares a few years down the line. I want it to be reliable as I like the car, but history dictates otherwise, although the new Citroen C5 still seems to be OK (Great looking car).
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>> line. I want it to be reliable as I like the car,
so did I till I sat in one and had a test drive. Now I know how a coal miner felt, black and gloomy as a black and gloomy place on a dark night. Everyone else has managed soft touch plastics, in this car Renault have managed eeeeeewwwwww yuk plastics.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 19 Jun 10 at 17:29
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How did I guess - oh, some vague memory of fannying about trying to get mine to start and failing miserably until I took the card out of the slot, and without pressing the button, the engine started.
Regrettably, is seems that Skoda appear to have used Renault as consultants for the current Octavia as far as I can see - dropping windows, mirrors failing to reset, random volume behaviour from the radio, etc,etc
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Stop Start buttons - Old Navy
