About three years ago I was sitting at the head of a queue on Euston Road in London waiting for the lights to change. I was intending to bear left into York Road. Behind me was an ambulance with blues and twos lit up. Thinking it might be in some poor soul's favour I eased forward and to the side into the yellow box to let the emergency vehicle through. Didn't inconvenience antone but fairly inevitably got a ticket produced by a computer. Argued it but got a stonewal reply basically saying "tough, pay up".
Anyway, same scenario a couple of weeks ago near Olympia. stiill of a mind that someone's agenda might be more pressing than mine, I did the same. Lo and behold, yesterday a ticket. £65 if I pay now, £130 if I delay and a threat of £5000 if I take it to court.
Just paid it.
Even if they don't have a conscience, I chuffing do.
|
>> Just paid it.
I wouldn't - ever - I'd take it all the way to court.
>> Even if they don't have a conscience, I chuffing do.
So di I, thats why I would fight it - all the way.
|
How are the yellow box cameras triggered?
sensors on road linked to traffic lights?
|
|
And am I the only one that thought this was going to be a thread about replacing a wing mirror???
|
>>thought this was going to be a thread about ...
I can't actually type what I want to say Bobby !
Suffice it to say it involves sex and travel !
;-))
|
|
Ha ha you have tempted fate! Is she due to be doing any country lane driving tomorrow???
|
>> And am I the only one that thought this was going to be a thread about replacing a wing mirror???
No, I did too. But this is far more interesting.
|
>> And am I the only one that thought this was going to be a thread
>> about replacing a wing mirror???
>>
+1
|
>> Just paid it.
>> I wouldn't - ever - I'd take it all the way to court.
So would I. Nothing to do with conscience, which is for serious matters. Just a rooted objection to having my pocket picked by clacking cold-hearted prats in dreary offices and their crummy machines.
I've seen threads here and on HJ discussing this. Some people even claim they wouldn't put a wheel in a yellow box for a shouting emergency vehicle. Utter, utter prats trying to force the country down the drain even faster.
No offence to Humph obviously. A couple of hundred quid every now and then may be a cheap price for a busy person to pay for instant peace of mind. I have certainly paid up sometimes when I knew I shouldn't. These days I have more time and deal with that stuff by, er, faffing really.
|
On a similar note...
When I got my stolen car back it had a parking ticket in the glovebox which had been issued while it was stolen
The amount of energy that I had to put into not paying that ticket was ridiculous
They really did expect me to pay up
And the stupid system that allows them to put tickets on cars reported stolen really needs fixing
|
|
As does the emergency services move situation. You can't f art in the ruddy country without some camera sniffing it out so in that situation the Authorities (sic) should know about it. Makes me sick. No way would I pay. Absolutely no way
|
I've got to agree. If it was the right thing to do in the circumstances (morally) I wouldn't pay it either.
Money grabbing scameras. At least I would like to think that a bobby at best would ignore the matter witnessing the circumstances and at worst use discretion.
|
>> I would like to think that a bobby at best would ignore the matter witnessing the circumstances and at worst use discretion.
I did it once at a major junction in Marylebone Rd., Baker St perhaps... for a marked fuzz car bluesing and twosing away, wriggling down between the lanes of stop-start traffic... I was at the lights, eased forward a bit left and a bit into the box, got a cool civil wave of thanks from the front seat passenger as the fuzz squeezed past on my right.
Coppers won't be a problem on anything like that, not ones in cars anyway (the dumber sort of pedestrian woodentop can be difficult about anything). Cameras and little pale geezers (or fat red geezers, no difference) in suits employed by the so-called local authority are another matter.
|
|
The difference is, I believe a technicality. Easing through a red light at the behest of a signalling police car is legal, while doing so for an ambulance or fire engine is not.
|
>> The difference is, I believe a technicality. Easing through a red light at the behest
>> of a signalling police car is legal, while doing so for an ambulance or fire
>> engine is not.
The law is an ass - is that a defence?
I think I'd fight it, but I can understand why a busy person might not.
|
>> The difference is, I believe a technicality. Easing through a red light at the behest
>> of a signalling police car is legal, while doing so for an ambulance or fire
>> engine is not.
>>
Er....not quite right.
If there's a Constable stood there in uniform waving his/her arms about..then you can go through.
If it were a PCSO...no authority.
If it were a Constable in uniform gesticulating from a vehicle..again , no authority...because they'd have to be engaged in traffic control..and that means being stood there.
|
|
I thought a signalling (with blues and twos) police car is regarded as the equivalent of an office in uniform. I think someone over on the old HJ site, possible the man himself mentioned it.
|
>> I thought a signalling (with blues and twos) police car is regarded as the equivalent
>> of an office in uniform. I think someone over on the old HJ site, possible
>> the man himself mentioned it.
>>
I suspect that Westpig may know a little more about the subject than Joe public or HJ.
|
PC Crap. I can't/won't employ youngsters.
Reason: My Mum says that....blah blah blah, etc etc etc. No Spine. No Spunk. No Go. The VERY sad thing is this.......It's NOT their fault. They are a just a child of their times. Lord above help us cos the work that needs doing hasn't changed. It just needs Men to do it.
|
|
Just been watching the excellent "Blandings". You're not the Duke of Dunstable are you?
|
>> I thought a signalling (with blues and twos) police car is regarded as the equivalent
>> of an office in uniform.
s.35 Road Traffic Act 1988.
It basically says "Where a constable [F1or traffic officer] is for the time being engaged in the regulation of traffic in a road....."
I note the 'F1' bit, which tends to suggest civilian 'traffic officers' are now included..but they do have to be engaged in the regulating of traffic.
|
>> I note the 'F1' bit, which tends to suggest civilian 'traffic officers' are now included..but
>> they do have to be engaged in the regulating of traffic.
>>
All coppers are civilians.
|
>> All coppers are civilians.
>>
Not quite.
Police officers up to the rank of Chief Superintendent are 'warranted' and act in the 'Office of Constable'...hence a warrant card.
They have restrictions on them and obviously can exercise powers that others cannot.
They are civilians in the respect of the military, but they are not civilians in the respect of the average Joe in the street.
|
>> They are civilians in the respect of the military, but they are not civilians in
>> the respect of the average Joe in the street.
>>
Er, not quite.
All police officers of any rank are 'constables'
link to ACPO website, see page 2.
www.acpo.police.uk/documents/reports/2012/201210PolicingintheUKFinal.pdf
I think it was in 1962 that 'Police force' became 'police service', at that time police officers became 'civilians'.
I accept that police officers have certain powers, responsibilities and authority which the man in the street doesn't have.
But they are still civilians.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 18 Feb 14 at 10:21
|
>
>> Er, not quite.
>>
>> All police officers of any rank are 'constables'
No they are not. ACPO rank police officers are not 'Constables'..they do not have a warrant card.
>>
>> link to ACPO website, see page 2.
That mentions all 'sworn' police officers i.e. all those from PC to Chief Supt
>>
>> www.acpo.police.uk/documents/reports/2012/201210PolicingintheUKFinal.pdf
>>
>> I think it was in 1962 that 'Police force' became 'police service', at that time
>> police officers became 'civilians'.
The UK Police are a civilian police force/service..but...within that there are sworn police officers (Constables) and civilian staff.There is a difference between the two, that within the police force/service is distinguishable by using the term 'civilian staff' and 'police officers'. PCSO's for example are civilian staff.
To confuse things even more a constable is a Constable and a sergeant is a Constable and this goes all the way up to and including Chief Superintendent..after that they become ACPO ranks and they are no longer Constables.
|
"but they are not civilians in the respect of the average Joe in the street."
I disagree.
If asked I think most people would say we have a civilian police force in contrast to those military dictatorships that have military police forces.
|
>> "but they are not civilians in the respect of the average Joe in the street."
>>
>> I disagree.
>>
>> If asked I think most people would say we have a civilian police force in
>> contrast to those military dictatorships that have military police forces.
>>
You are right..see above...I hadn't worded it all that well.
|
>> If there's a Constable stood there in uniform waving his/her arms about..then you can go
>> through.
>> If it were a Constable in uniform gesticulating from a vehicle..again , no authority...because they'd have to be engaged in traffic control..and that means being stood there.
>>
So, to move out the way of an emergency vehicle against a red light, is in fact illegal?
in which case you have no defence against a ticket?
|
Last time it happened I challenged it and was informed that I still had to pay or take my chances in court. Really couldn't be bothered then or now to do that. Notwithstanding the ( possibly slim but still possible ) financial implications of the chance of losing the argument.
However, if an emergency vehicle needs me to get out of their way in the future, and I can, in my opinion, do so safely, I still will. To hell with the petty little pen pushers.
|
>> So, to move out the way of an emergency vehicle against a red light, is
>> in fact illegal?
>> in which case you have no defence against a ticket?
>>
Yes, basically...but...with an excuse like the one we are talking about..(and it can easily be checked, because the emergency vehicle will be running the same red)..then a prosecution would be unnecessarily heavy handed...
...now we all know there are some cretins who would still prosecute in those circs..so you go to court, plead Guilty and ask the court to consider special reasons for your 'offence' and for the court to consider giving you an 'absolute discharge' as the 'penalty'.
tinyurl.com/k4ppzyf
Last edited by: Westpig on Mon 17 Feb 14 at 21:39
|
and for the court to consider giving you an 'absolute discharge' as the
>> 'penalty'.
Just waiting for Lygonos to come along (pun intended) to give his version of an 'absolute discharge'....;-)
|
"If there's a Constable ..then you can go through. If it were a PCSO...no authority."
In fairness, in the heat of the moment can anyone really expect Joe Public to tell the difference?
|
Well, it's happened again... - Zero
