Motoring Discussion > Bit of a palaver	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: Armel Coussine	Replies: 31

New Sun 16 Feb 14 23:47   Bit of a palaver - Armel Coussine

It was a nice day today so I decided to service the K&N air filter in my car which had done 30,000 miles and was grotty. I had got a cleaning kit from Amazon for 14 or 15 quid. It was a bit of a hassle though, five processes including squirting water through the filter element backwards and letting it 'dry naturally' before spraying special oil on it. I cheated by putting it on the electric heater, but even so the whole job took an hour and made my hands dirty. It's made a perceptible difference though even on my very cooking jalopy. The most perceptible difference is a nice sort of schlupping noise under light throttle opening in a high gear which had gradually become almost inaudible. You can hear it working better, but it goes faster on lighter throttle opening and takes much longer to slow down when you take your foot off. Even so I almost wished I had got a throwaway item which would surely work almost as well. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 16 Feb 14 23:59   Bit of a palaver - Lygonos

If you're noticing much of a difference it means you left it way too long to clean ;-) Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Feb 14 00:48   Bit of a palaver - Manatee

>> but it ... takes much longer to slow down when you take your foot off. Odd - the throttle plate should have shut the air off anyway. Placebo effect? It is petrol? My car always goes better when I have washed it properly, mucked it out and cleaned the glass. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Feb 14 01:43   Bit of a palaver - Armel Coussine

Of course i doesn't make an enormous difference. But it is perceptible. Yes it is petrol, and I will check the overrun effect in case I was imagining it. Funny the way they go better when you clean them. Perhaps I will make that Stage 2. :o} Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Feb 14 07:36   Bit of a palaver - Old Navy

I believe that K&N filters work well on V8s with a Holly four barrel carb. Don't forget to buy a MAF sensor to replace the one that the filter oil will wreck. :-) Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Feb 14 10:15   Bit of a palaver - bathtub tom

I had a conversation with a young lad who claimed his Micra went much faster since he'd fitted a K&N. He couldn't prove it with any figures, nor explain to me how the engine management knew it was getting more air and could therefore provide more fuel. I gave him the details of a website that did a technical analysis of different air filters. That showed the K&N merely had larger holes than a manufacturers filter, let through more dirt and gave no better performance. The young lad never mentioned it again. Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Mon 17 Feb 14 10:23   Bit of a palaver - Slidingpillar

In my youth, I fitted a K&N to a Maxi. Power was increased, but only after I'd changed the needle in the SU to suit as the mixture was obviously too weak. I also fitted one to the Morgan 4/4, but a 1972 one had no air filter as standard, so any filter was an improvement! Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Feb 14 11:11   Bit of a palaver - Cliff Pope

>> >> Even so I almost wished I had got a throwaway item which would surely work >> almost as well. >> It depends on what you are expecting it to do that you believe will be an improvement on the standard filter set up. Reasons for fitting a K&N might be: 1) Less air restriction It has larger holes, but oily ones, so are supposedly better at trapping dirt without restricting the air. 2) More direct intake routing, eliminating restricting elbows etc. 3) Placing in cold airstream to increase air density so pack more mixture in 4) Placing so as to give "ram-air" effect, like a sort of supercharger. 5) Reasons of space if a special or non-standard engine. On a carburettor engine you need to adjust the mixture accordingly, perhaps changing needles. Perhaps that adjustment is automatic with a computer-managed engine. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Feb 14 13:48   Bit of a palaver - Armel Coussine

>> you need to adjust the mixture accordingly, perhaps changing needles. Perhaps that adjustment is automatic with a computer-managed engine. That seems obvious to me. Car's behaviour confirms it I think. I'm not imagining things, it really does run perceptibly better. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Feb 14 15:40   Bit of a palaver - Armel Coussine

>> adjustment is automatic with a computer-managed engine. And if the electronics don't adjust mixture, timing etc. to the air supply, then the engine will be set to run correctly with a new filter. A clogged filter will make it run rich. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Feb 14 16:37   Bit of a palaver - bathtub tom

>>A clogged filter will make it run rich. I don't think that applies any more with injection and ECUs. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Feb 14 16:39   Bit of a palaver - Zero

well it does something that injection and ECUs can't overcome, because mine definitely has better pick up with a clean air filter. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Feb 14 16:43   Bit of a palaver - bathtub tom

>> well it does something that injection and ECUs can't overcome, because mine definitely has better >> pick up with a clean air filter. It will do, as a dirty filter restricts the amount of air reaching combustion. Less air = less fuel = smaller bang. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Feb 14 16:52   Bit of a palaver - Armel Coussine

>> mine definitely has better pick up with a clean air filter. bt has a bee in his bonnet about air filters it seems. As any fule kno a car runs properly when it breathes freely. A clogged air filter reduces air flow. If the engine management reduces fuelling accordingly, it may not run rich but it will still run slower and worse. And it will use more fuel as the driver unconsciously comes down on the gas to make it run 'normally'. I like cars. I understand engine tune from many years of hands-on hassle with carbs and points, semi-mechanical fuel injection and modern electronic carp. I've driven a lot of miles in a lot of jalopies and I really do notice quite subtle differences in running, let alone fairly obvious ones. bt doesn't have to believe me though, perish the thought. I will content myself with recommending a K&N filter for his jalopy - there's sure to be one - which may well improve its running a percentage point or two. Of course an automotive curmudgeon like him may be incapable of noticing the difference. A lot of people secretly hate and despise cars, poor darlings. Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Mon 17 Feb 14 at 16:55 Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Feb 14 17:58   Bit of a palaver - bathtub tom

>>bt has a bee in his bonnet about air filters it seems. I spent some time investigating them years ago and came to the conclusion the manufacturer's investment into R & D can only be bettered if you've very deep pockets (like Lud's?). K & N will let a little more air through than a standard paper job, but probably not enough to make any measurable difference. They'll also let more dirt through. I find it's a lot easier to nip into my local motor factors and fit something that's designed to do the job rather than spend much more money and time faffing around with something that's a sop to my ego because it cost me more, takes up more of my time and is noisier. If you want an improvement in performance, leave the filter out altogether, but I doubt if it'd be any better (other than in your imagination). Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Mon 17 Feb 14 18:22   Bit of a palaver - Armel Coussine

Over time I doubt if K&N costs more than manufacturer's throwaways, which aren't free. And you may have 'come to the conclusion' that it's a sop to people's egos but I haven't. All filters let some dirt through - very fine dirt it is too. Anything visible gets stopped by the filter and clogs it. You do it your way and I'll do it mine when I can be bothered. Clearly you don't notice subtle differences in power and torque delivery and think a slightly different noise makes a car noisier. I am very happy that I am not like that. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Feb 14 12:50   Bit of a palaver - J Bonington Jagworth

"a cleaning kit from Amazon for 14 or 15 quid" How much is a new element, then?! When I've cleaned sponge elements in the past, I've only ever used washing-up liquid, followed by a small dose of clean engine oil (when dry of course) squeezed out to prevent any blockage. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Feb 14 13:54   Bit of a palaver - Cliff Pope

www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmrrrS5JQbw Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Feb 14 14:28   Bit of a palaver - bathtub tom

Here you are: www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm there is very little if any power to be found from removing the air filter, much less changing the filter type. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Feb 14 20:41   Bit of a palaver - Armel Coussine

Interesting stuff bt. I note that your man has been in his time a K&N enthusiast though, which is more than I am. I wonder if he had one of those little transfers to advertise the fact on a rear window or quarterlight... Flat-four aircooled VWs, and other cars perhaps, used to have an oilbath filter for desert use. The filter had to be filled with engine oil to the correct level, and intake air was bubbled through it, effectively running across an oil surface. After a few hundred miles you had to take it out and scoop the large amount of settled dust sludge - it would go quite hard and stiff - out of the lower case of the filter, put more oil in and go on your way. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Feb 14 21:18   Bit of a palaver - Lygonos

>>Flat-four aircooled VWs Thrashing out 34... maybe 35hp from a 1300cc engine. Wheeeeeeeeee......... Anyhoo, wasn't the point of the oilbath filters that they could catch more crap than a paper element before they prevented airflow rather than being innately awesome filtration devices? Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Feb 14 21:29   Bit of a palaver - Armel Coussine

Very likely Lygonos. I didn't say they worked especially well, just that they got full of dust sludge in a very dusty part of the world. Anyway a lot of those VW flat fours were 1600, 1700 and 1800 cc, even bigger sometimes. Sheeesh... The amazing thing to me is that those motors could be used in ambient air temperatures of 50 degrees without melting immediately. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Feb 14 21:50   Bit of a palaver - Ted

The Jowett has an oilbath filter. It's fitted in the front of the bonnet and lifts up with it. It hardly ever needs checking in this country. HO Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Feb 14 22:02   Bit of a palaver - Westpig

A few years back my brother, then a bike mechanic, had my Honda Blackbird in for fettling.. and felt the need to upgrade a few bits and bobs. So a dynojet kit, sports exhausts and a K&N air filter went on. Chhrrriiiissssst. It went from a seriously quick bike to something else again. Mr Lardy here could before the tweaks, with care, accelerate away from the lights with full throttle....not afterwards he couldn't, no way, the front would come up off the ground...and it's a big heavy bike. tinyurl.com/pqjtmns Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Feb 14 22:12   Bit of a palaver - Runfer D'Hills

My Westfield had K&N filters and an unfeasably loud straight thru' exhaust. Went like s...olid fecal matter off a hot shovel. Twin SUs too. Have thought about getting another one but decided I can't. Old blokes driving such things tend to look far too much like a bit of a knob I fear. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Feb 14 22:14   Bit of a palaver - Westpig

>> Have thought about getting another one >> but decided I can't. Old blokes driving such things tend to look far too much >> like a bit of a knob I fear. >> Who cares, you'd be a happy knob. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Feb 14 22:15   Bit of a palaver - Runfer D'Hills

True ! Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Feb 14 22:28   Bit of a palaver - Kevin

Is it really such a good idea to have a happy knob in public view? Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Feb 14 22:38   Bit of a palaver - Lygonos

That's not a bike... this is a bike! www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPmHhswbk_g Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Feb 14 23:00   Bit of a palaver - bathtub tom

>>So a dynojet kit, sports exhausts and a K&N air filter went on. >>My Westfield had K&N filters and an unfeasably loud straight thru' exhaust. I believe most engines are strangled by their exhausts. Improving that and matching the induction side will, in my experience, lead to greater power. The best thing to do with the exhaust gases is get rid of them Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 Feb 14 00:54   Bit of a palaver - Armel Coussine

>> Twin SUs too. Tsk... sidedraught twin-choke Webers or Dellortos of the right size, with properly fettled manifold, one choke per cylinder, oooh yeah... I'm older than you and I must say it's one of the hundreds of tasty motors I would go mad choosing between if I had any bread that is... Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 Feb 14 07:18   Bit of a palaver - Dog

>>if I had any bread that is... Pull the other one Sire. (*_*) Reply to this message | Report message