So tax diesels without DPFs to the point where they're not economically viable; ban them from city centres (aka LEZ) and bring forward the introduction of Euro VI.
Oh, and how about insisting that buses more than 5 years old cannot be used for public transport services? I used to ride a bike in Manchester city centre, and when a bus pulled away with the pedal to the metal I was enveloped in a dirty great cloud of grey crap.
I suspect that's more of a problem in cities than a rep-mobile loafing along at 75 mpg.
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>> I suspect that's more of a problem in cities than a rep-mobile loafing along at
>> 75 mpg.
Burnt jet fuel residues drifting down from on high? ;-)
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>>Burnt jet fuel residues drifting down from on high?
I was thinking about all the flying things taking orf at Gatwick/Thiefrow etc. while I was on my 90 minute one-legged walk just now (you're only on one leg when walking, don't think too hard about it though or you'll fall over)
There must be a hell-of-a-lot of airborne pollution in those areas, what with the flying things, petrol and diesel-engined vehicles chucking out nasty niffs - I wouldn't fancy being a regular cyclist in those areas.
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It certainly niffs a bit sometimes, especially those still, grey, slightly damp no-weather days. No worse than the smell of the Nescafé factory up the road though - and far more tolerable than what used to waft out of the Shippam's meat paste factory in Chichester 20 years ago.
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Not as bad as the Marmite factory (used to be) in Kennington/Oval I'll wager.
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Obviously never been to Gut Scrapers and Tripe Dressers! A delicacy, tripe, some say. I hope never to experience it again.
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>> Burnt jet fuel residues drifting down from on high?
Unburnt is worse, and there's a lot of that where rough old airliners are climbing on full throttle just after takeoff. There's a place near CDG airport outside Paris where the flight path from the main runway crosses the Paris-Brussels autoroute (is it the A1? I forget). When it rains the road becomes very slippery indeed with the water/paraffin amalgam. A heavy-footed friend lost, rolled and wrote off his BMW there simply under acceleration in a straight line.
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A pretty much fact free rant. Lots of generalised assertions but little to back them up.
Did govt really bully us into buying diesel? If so then taxing it at same rate as petrol , which has consistently made it more expensive is an odd way to go about it. Yes, the published from the official test are misleading (or rather not achievable in the real world) but exactly the same test and optimistic outcome apply to petrol cars.
While Professor Kelly and his cohort argue about diesel emissions (which allegedly account for 25% of small particulates in Central London's Air albeit probably most from LCV/PSV sources) there will be other science talking of the even smaller particles from petrol as well as it's own unique poisons.
Not changing my car for petrol any time soon!!!
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>> While Professor Kelly and his cohort argue about diesel emissions (which allegedly account for 25%
>> of small particulates in Central London's Air albeit probably most from LCV/PSV sources) there will
>> be other science talking of the even smaller particles from petrol as well as it's
>> own unique poisons.
>>
>> Not changing my car for petrol any time soon!!!
>>
Exactly. I am no scientist, but why would the smaller particles from petrols cause any less damage than bigger particles from diesels?
And where do the zero tailpipe emissions get most of their juice from? Power stations, often burning coal, so just a shift in location rather than a removal of particulates.
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>>I am no scientist, but why would the smaller particles from petrols cause any less damage than bigger particles from diesels?
I'm a particle fizzycyst (retyred) and there is plenty of evidence out there regarding how much worse those nasty diesel engines are, from health point of view, compared to more-pleasant petrol jobbies.
Such as: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_particulate_matter#Particulates
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Yes, but the PM 2.5 and below have been little mapped. But now petrols are going to have to have particulate filters in due course. DI petrol engines, particularly, emit particles in the PM 2.5 and below.
Euro 6b will bring in similar mass based particle limits, in conjunction with PN (particle numbers) to deal with diesel and petrol engine ultrafines. There is work on Gasoline Particle Filters. So, look forward to the time when both GPF and DPF cause problems:)
Last edited by: NortonES2 on Thu 1 May 14 at 14:24
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>>So, look forward to the time when both GPF and DPF cause problems:)
All good stuff though - I was born in The Great Smog of '52 (cough, wheeze, splutter)
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I never thought I'd see the day when the DM was doing the EU's dirty work:
tinyurl.com/mj2lxdl - Link to Telegraph
The next cycle is we will be told electric is the way forward but nothing has been done with the infrastructure to ensure enough juice will be available. In 20 years time we will be told electric was a mistake and "lessons will be learned/learnt".
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oops!
Last edited by: Arjades on Thu 1 May 14 at 11:20
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In what way was anybody "Bullied" into buying a diesel? They cost more to buy and the fuel costs more but they do more mpg. They have ongoing issues with particulate filters and DMFs and buying one is a free choice.
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>>In what way was anybody "Bullied" into buying a diesel?
Via the Zionist-controlled media.
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Which aspectsp/arts of the UK media are Zionist controlled? Also, when walking, as defined in the Olympic rules. both feet are in contact with the ground; if they are not (one only) that is running and cause for disqualification.
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Walking is controlled falling over. You stand on one leg, fall forward, and land on the other one.
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Not quite, Melders; what you've described is Michael Jackson's moonwalk! 'Contact with the ground must be maintained at all times' used to be the Olympic specification for walking. Either foot will do.
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Is this the same thing? The athlete's back toe cannot leave the ground until the heel of the front foot has touched. Violation of this rule is known as loss of contact. The second rule requires that the supporting leg must straighten from the point of contact with the ground and remain straightened until the body passes directly over it.
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I think Perro was extracting it a bit Meldrew.
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There'll be a Godwin's Law relating to Zion-ism one day, I'll wager.
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>>I think Perro was extracting it a bit Meldrew.
This is an old article of course and, it isn't anti-Semitic, no more than I am but, it makes interesting reading IMHO.
rense.com/general38/brits.htm
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>> This is an old article of course and, it isn't anti-Semitic, no more than I am but, it makes interesting reading IMHO.
It's exceptionally boring Perro, and could easily have been written by Goebbels.
It's true that Israel is consistently favoured and whitewashed by most of the media in Middle East coverage. But that isn't because the media are run by Jews, it's because the US favours Israel and what the US says usually goes.
I've said before that the most damaging attacks on Zionism are those from Jews, most often from Israeli Jews.
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>> It's exceptionally boring Perro,
Not that some of it isn't true of course. The frightful harridan Barbara Amiel was almost a satirically rabid Zionist.
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>> I've said before that the most damaging attacks on Zionism are those from Jews, most
>> often from Israeli Jews.
>>
Maybe you have been trained to say that to sow dischord in the minds of the Goyim.
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>>It's exceptionally boring Perro, and could easily have been written by Goebbels.
I only posted it to allude to a connection between Ashkenazi Jews and diesel particulates.
:o)
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>> In what way was anybody "Bullied" into buying a diesel? They cost more to buy
>> and the fuel costs more but they do more mpg. They have ongoing issues with
>> particulate filters and DMFs and buying one is a free choice.
>>
Bullied is probably not the right term, but doesn't the company car market make it much more appealing to choose a diesel?
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>> Bullied is probably not the right term, but doesn't the company car market make it
>> much more appealing to choose a diesel?
When I was looking at company cars recently, the petrol ones worked out cheaper in terms of tax. Although that appears to be changing (changed?):
www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/companycartax/cartax_exp.html (see 'Budget 2014')
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We seem to have come some way from the original issue, which is one worth debating.
I've put my thoughts on a similar thread on HJ, but here it is again:
The root of the problem is that politicians aren't given any proper training. Most of us with professional qualifications had to train for several years to get them; others, such as civil servants, are trained by years of experience in their departments. Politicians are moved at every election or reshuffle to departments about which they know nothing.
Thus they are easily influenced by whatever lobby they have heard most recently - and a few years ago the diesel lobby was one such. Not nearly enough research was done, and although the Mail exaggerates as always, there is an issue here.
I think that much of the pollution in towns and cities comes from buses and trucks, but even so it'll be a good thing if more manufacturers can produce petrol engines with all four necessary attributes - economy, reliability, long life and low-down torque. VAG's 1.4 and 2.0 TSI engines (excluding the 1.4s with supercharger as well as turbo) are a good example of where I hope things are going.
Last edited by: Avant on Thu 1 May 14 at 23:02
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I'm not a diesel fan and, as stated elsewhere, find the fumes and occasional spillage pretty noxious, especially when riding my motorbike. I like revvy engines with a crisp throttle response and snicking up and down through the gears, both on 2 wheels and four, but I realise that's not everyone's idea of fun.
Diesels used to be regarded as more reliable, but I get the impression that injection and DPF problems (not to mention flywheels) have spoiled their record in the last few years. Anyone care to comment?
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>> Diesels used to be regarded as more reliable, but I get the impression that injection
>> and DPF problems (not to mention flywheels) have spoiled their record in the last few
>> years. Anyone care to comment?
Catastrophically so for some models. I know people who had big issues with a Mondeo and a Mercedes Benz, and I'm pretty sure they weren't isolated. Injectors in both cases, and main dealers who were very poor at diagnosis.
Had no problems with a Honda 2.2 i-cdti over 95,000 miles, currently on 28,000 with a Mitsubishi Outlander with the Mitsubishi 4N14 engine rather than the PSA one.
It could be a while before I replace the Outlander, but it will probably be a petrol next time.
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The deadly diesel deception: - Fursty Ferret
