No time to relate the full BMW overview but, as with the Alfa 18mths ago, I've bought another car than is urgently in need of 4 tyres. In truth I took something of a chance bring it home but had to be done. Anyway had a look round the online (fit locally or home prices inc valve & balance) places and need to order tonight.
225/55x16W
Choices are...
Michelin Primacy £114ea
Kuhmo Ecsta KU31 £84
Hankook Vetus Prime 2 £96
Uniroyal Rainsport £103
or Michelin Alpin (winters) £119 to leave on all year round as Lagacylad advises.
All look varying degrees of OK on the new tyre ratings. Any thoughts appreciated.
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My preference is generally Michelin, and for me the savings above on the other brands aren't enough to make me consider them. I think my old 330d was on Michelins anyway, as was the 330i that followed so it's quite likely your car was fitted with them originally I'd have thought?
I *think* our Audi Cabriolet is on the same size tyres. I fitted four Dunlops shortly after buying it, but they were £40 a tyre cheaper than Michelin at the time and, I think, quite often OE fit by Audi anyway, for what it's worth
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Added to say I have had the Kumhos fitted, to our A3, in the past and they were absolutely fine. Admittedly 17" 225/45 from memory, but certainly quieter than the OE Dunlops.
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At those prices I would go for the rubber-tyred man. I too have good experience of Michelin Alpins all-year round and now you've gone for rwd, you're going to need all the help you can get if we get snow in the winter.
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I have Kumhos on the back of mine and will be getting another pair soon to replace the front Dunlops. They seem a decent tyre.
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>> I have Kumhos on the back of mine and will be getting another pair soon
>> to replace the front Dunlops. They seem a decent tyre.
>>
Last autumn I replaced the Michelin Primacy HP's on the back of my C Class Estate with Kumho KH21 All Season's and they seem fine.
I (thankfully) haven't tested then in snow etc, but they've worked without drama on very wet roads and they're as quiet at the Michelin's. They weren't much more than half the price of the Michelin's so I thought worth a try and not an issue if they wear faster.
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I'd go for the Alpins being they wear well, for a winter tyre:
www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Michelin/Alpin.htm
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>> I'd go for the Alpins being they wear well, for a winter tyre:
>>
>> www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Michelin/Alpin.htm
>>
The picture in that link, and I would guess most of the reviews, refer to the PA3 and not the latest version, the PA4. I've used both and the wear was superior on the PA3s. FWIW I got 16,000 from the front of my FWD 265bhp/420Nm Saab 9-5 Aero on the last set of PA4s. I would guess around 20k from the last set of PA3s I had, going back c. 2-3 years I have also found the PA4s to be much noisier than the PA3s.
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TBH, I reckon any of those tyres would be okay and, as Runfor D'HumpBackbridge would say, it's the nut behind the wheel which is more important really.
My Forester came with 4 x budget Chinese Runway Enduro 816's a year ago when I bought it, no problems at all so far and it the car feels just as sure-footed as my Lancer did on Nokian WR g2's, although the Forester is AWD of course but, how they would perform in a bad winter is totally different ball game.
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I have these very tyres on the Ka Dog.
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"Runway tyres are made by the Federal tyre company who spend a lot of money on research and development and have had a lot of technical collaboration with some of the major tyre manufacturers.
I've never generally been a fan of budget tyres but I have used Federal branded tyres and Runway Enduro 656 and 816 tyres made by Federal and found them to be very good for both grip and low wear rate.
Federal tyres are popular for motorsport use in many areas of the world".
Lifted from Pistonheads ;)
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>> Choices are...
>>
>> Michelin Primacy £114ea
>> Kuhmo Ecsta KU31 £84
>> Hankook Vetus Prime 2 £96
>> Uniroyal Rainsport £103
>>
>> or Michelin Alpin (winters) £119 to leave on all year round as Lagacylad advises.
>>
>> All look varying degrees of OK on the new tyre ratings. Any thoughts appreciated.
>>
Why are you paying so much?
www.google.co.uk/#q=225/55r16&tbm=shop
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Duncan I think many of the prices on the list you link are for delivery to your home and then you have to pay for fitting/balance... also some add a delivery charge to those prices so they can be very close to a fully fitted price.
I want to go to a place within 6mls of home and have the job all done for me... or have an at home fitting service.
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I'd willingly pay the extra for the Michelins.
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Depends how much he's paid for the car maybe. The 5 series has an intrinsically well sorted chassis so it'll be quite forgiving of budget rubber.
As for putting winter tyres on for year round use it might to some ( me for example ) seem a bit excessive for the three days a year when they might come in handy..
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>> Duncan I think many of the prices on the list you link are for delivery
>> to your home and then you have to pay for fitting/balance... also some add a
>> delivery charge to those prices so they can be very close to a fully fitted
>> price.
>>
>> I want to go to a place within 6mls of home and have the job
>> all done for me... or have an at home fitting service.
>>
Yes, on slightly closer examination, I think you are correct.
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I'd say it's between Michelin and Kumho, depending on how much cheaper the Kumhos are.
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£140 by my reckoning but you're the accountant...
;-)
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Indeed! Fair point - what I meant to say - and failed! - was that it depends how important the price difference is.
When I first had the Z3 it had Kumhos on the front and Michelins on the back. It was perfectly safe (neither set were winter tyres) although when the back tyres wore down I put Kumhos on the back as well.
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I had cheapo Hankooks on my Westfield and yes you could unstick it if you tried really really hard. It even went on the Kielder forest stage ( in the snow ) on those a couple of times. Fairly good fun that was.
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I 'might' try winter tyres on the Merc next winter. At a guess, based on previous wear rates, it'll need a set of 4 tyres about November this year and while I've not felt deprived without them before, I suppose it might be interesting to try them given the timing.
It would though mean living with them into summer 2015 which is the bit I'm not sure about. I'm still wrestling with the dilemma of why I'd want a set of tyres on it. that were worse for 11 months of the year just to have a bit more grip on the very odd day when it might help. My car won't take cheap steelies due to its oversized brake discs apparently, so buying a spare set of 18" alloys at gazillions of pounds a set isn't really on the cards.
Actually, to be honest, I probably won't bother, if all it means is that I just have to drive a bit more carefully on really wintery days then that's nothing fresh.
As you were chaps, nothing to see here...
;-)
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I can't have cheap steelies on this Octavia, for the same reason as you, but I did on the previous one. The Kleber Quadraxers I had on there were all-weather tyres, and there was an improvement in ride over the originals with no loss of precision in the handling. I kept them on all last summer.
So if you can find some all-weather tyres to suit the Mercedes, they could be worth a try. I've seen some people say that all-weather tyres aren't very distinguished in any weather, but I never had a problem with mine.
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>>>Actually, to be honest, I probably won't bother, if all it means is that I just have to drive a bit more carefully on really wintery days then that's nothing fresh.
Thanks for ideas all... been busy bank holidaying. I think we've chatted round to the idea that as I never *have* to go anywhere on a particular day then it is no problem to leave the BMW unused on snow days. And we'll always have a front wheel drive second car so can use that.
So winter/all weather tyres off the list for certain.
I think in a way the advice for either Michelin or Kumho is the way forward. Michelin Primacy have very good ratings and may actually help future resale so if we're spending out then they seem a good choice. However if I wanted to try hard to keep within a "getting it sorted" budget I have in my head and something unexpected is revealed in the next few days the saved £112 by going Kumho may be useful.
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>> I'm still wrestling with the dilemma of why I'd want a set
>> of tyres on it. that were worse for 11 months of the year just to
>> have a bit more grip on the very odd day when it might help.
I know you killed off your post, but I wanted to comment on the above part of it.
"worse for 11 months" implies that you're operating near the limits of whatever tyres are fitted. Maybe in your case you are, but my argument that it's OK to use winter's year round (as my wife's Honda Jazz does) is that 99.99% of the time we're operating well within the car's & ANY tyre's capabilities. I figured that the 0.01% of time when we're not is a lot less than a month (although the winter tyre "window" is usually a lot longer than a month).
I kind of chickened out of the argument on my Merc by fitting All Season's, but that car is pretty well only used for occasional long motorway trips.
Last edited by: Bill Payer on Sun 4 May 14 at 23:10
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I stand to be corrected but the Alpins are not winter tyres per se but cold weather tyres, operating best at lower temperatures. I paid around £900 for a set of 225/40/18s, fitted at home, and 20k miles later there is still plenty of tread on the rears.
Living in the Dales, at an altitude around 800', the weather is often 'cool' for weeks at a time so I have got my money's worth, and continue to do so.
If I lived in a warmer part of the uk I would probably fit something else
Horses for courses
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Yellow card! I can't believe we are talking about winter tyres in Spring :)
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The nights start drawing in next month.
Just saying.
:o}
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>>>Lovejoy started it !
Strangely the old bus with its 1990s look fits the name now... damn.
BTW Mrs F says its only money, get the Michelin Primacys on order today.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Mon 5 May 14 at 13:50
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My LEC has two Primacy 3s in the same size as your 5, FL. It'll be getting two more in the next couple of weeks. They tick all my boxes for a tyre: quiet, secure, tolerably economical and very long-lasting.
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>> BTW Mrs F says its only money, get the Michelin Primacys on order today.
>>
Yes, my missus thinks it's hilarious that I agonise over tyres and tyre prices. I think women find it much easier to spend money than men as they're more used to doing it. :)
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>>> missus thinks it's hilarious that I agonise over tyres and tyre prices
I sort of got the message earlier that after interrupting her reading in the sunroom with the 8th combination of supplier, make, price and wet road rating... well it was time to decide or die.
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Expressed another way, £900 every 20,000 miles is 4.5p a mile on tyres alone. It's the reason I scrubbed the Sport models of LEC from my list early in the process, although I prefer their seats to those in the Avantgarde I ended up with. That costs about £540 for a set of Michelins, on which it goes about 30,000 miles, or about 1.8 rubber pence a mile.
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For what it's worth, my E ( it's a 'Sport' ) seems to do a short 40k miles on its tyres. Front and back wearing at approximately the same rate. North of £200 each though. Different sized fronts to rears. Arguably with such frugal wear rates they aren't as dear as some. ( if you see what I mean ? )
The Qashqai ( both her's and my old one ) struggle to get 16/17k out of fronts, but the rears seem to go on forever. Her's has 47k miles on it with 5mm tread remaining on the original rears. Theoretically they could be on there for another 47k.
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Mon 5 May 14 at 17:48
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>> For what it's worth, my E ( it's a 'Sport' ) seems to do a
>> short 40k miles on its tyres. Front and back wearing at approximately the same rate.
That's interesting - using Michelin Primacy HPs my C Class wore the rears out in 25K miles on each of two pairs and the original Bridgestone's only lasted 18K. As mentioned before, the car does almost nothing other than steady motorway trips.
I changed the fronts at 40K but only because they were starting to look bad with the outer edges scrubbed - there was still 4mm across most of the tread. Staggered set-up on mine too, so can't rotate.
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If you start working out the full per mile cost of your chosen style of motoring, (maintenance, purchase, loss of interest, depreciation, running costs, insurance etc. etc.) you'll take the enjoyment from the actual driving.
Its never a pleasant calculation.
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BTW NoFM I forgot... you mentioned the code reader. Appreciate that but I'm getting a small handheld thing like a big mobile phone for about £39 which will read all the basic codes I'll need... any more detail reqd and it's off to the local BMW specialists.
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No worries FL, I had both and the handheld is an awful lot less hassle. Most of those plug into the EOBDII port under the dash. However, your BMW may need you to plug into the round port under the bonnet, and not all the handhelds can, so do check before paying.
The other limitation that you will have is that you will see only generic codes and your ability to interrogate the individual modules will be limited.
Also, as if it matters, you won't be able to re-program any of the re-programmable bits (central locking, lights on/off etc. etc.).
Its just sat in a box, so its not going anywhere in case your needs change in the future.
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>>> you won't be able to re-program any of the re-programmable bits (central locking, lights on/off etc. etc.).
Yep that's fine for now thanks. Funnily enough in the comprehensive history there's a printout done at the pdi as to how the car was set up for all those parameters.
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>> Its just sat in a box...
Sitting dear boy sitting....
;-)
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I welcome your feedback and you are, of course, correct.
(Admittedly its an alternative spelling and usage of the word "welcome").
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>> I paid around £900 for a set of 225/40/18s, fitted at home, and 20k miles later there is still plenty of tread on the rears.
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What!!
£225 a corner! 20k miles!!
I would want a million miles out of them and built in dancing girls all round.
Crikey! £225 a go! I don't believe it!
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Duncan are you from north of the border by any chance?
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No mate, but my feet are very firmly on the ground.
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Ahh OK... we know Runfer will spend a bit when needs arise but the majority.....
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Missed the edit.
£225 a pop!!
I have suggested to Wetherspoons that they open a chain of tyre fitting pubs.
I am now going for a lie/lay down in order to recover from £ 2 2 5. I hurts me just to type it and it's not my money.
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Oh well deed is done... set Primacy 3s bought online for wed pm fitting.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Mon 5 May 14 at 19:35
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Money well spent Duncan
Considerably more on a Boxster S, without the longevity.
The girls, or should that be ladies, in my life have always been high maintenance. I wouldn't want it any other way.
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>> Money well spent Duncan
>>
>>
To each, his own.
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Bit late in the day but I think you have spoiled it.
I had Primacys on the Ceed, I know its a different animal and vastly over tyred. Also fitted Barum Bravius and the the Focus was replaced with the Barums. I liked them. But I dont think they do W speed rating only V.
www.tyre-shopper.co.uk/search/225-55-r16/V/Barum
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>>>Bit late in the day but I think you have spoiled it.... I had Primacys on the Ceed, I know its a different animal
Yes there's some truth in that however...
In the feeling I gained from the careful drive home, and to an extent going against Runfer's comments on RWD luxobarge fine handling, it seems a weighty lump that could easily get away from you in the wet and these Michelins have a top wet grip rating.
I say that in comparison to the far more direct, responsive and balanced feel of the Alfa which is like a big go kart in comparison and very failsafe in difficult conditions.
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Best laid plans of mice and....
Sadly the online supplier for the Michelins messed up in being unable to supply the tyres for booked fitting day... added to that they were rubbish at keeping me informed so I've cancelled that order.
By a huge coincidence it's actually worked out for the best given I found a related problem....
On the afternoon they should have been fitted having done the cancellation I took all the wheels of to check the brakes, no work needed for at least 12k thankfully. Took the opportunity to clean/grease brake pipes per GB's way too.
Unfortunately I found the bad wheel wobble the seller mentioned as a balance issue and I sussed was probably a bent alloy turned out to be because both offside alloys were damaged. Then when I looked at the full size spare that had damage as well so three replacement alloys needed!
Anyway they're bought used from a breaker for delivery next week and what tyres they have on them will determine if I still need four or perhaps if a couple are decent I'll just match those for the rest of this year.
This fact/condition finding period on a 12yr old car is always interesting.
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I bought a Fiesta with a badly buckled rim on the nearside rear once. There was no perceptible wobble from inside the car at all. It was only when following SWMBO who was driving it, I started flashing the lights and honking for her to stop as I thought the wheel was about to fall off. Turns out the bolts were tight, but the rim itself was badly out of true. When I removed the wheel, I found about 200g worth of sticky weights on the inside of the rim which explained the lack of wobble. eBay rim with a good part worn Firestone for £30 sorted it.
If you do need tyres and go the Michelin route, Costco are usually very keenly priced on these if you are a member (or know a member who can sign you in).
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Thanks for the Costco mention but nearest is a 70ml round trip and I like to have tyres fitted close to home in case I need to go back for something.
I've had wheels like you mention where they balance but look badly out of line. I didn't try to see if these would balance out as it would mean all the faff of paying to have new tyres fitted/balanced and then doing it all again assuming replacement wheels were needed.
>>> eBay rim with a good part worn Firestone for £30 sorted it.
If only.... my alloys are standard fit for a 2002 and not nearly as common used as the earlier 1996-2000 style where obviously many of the older cars are the ones in the breakers. Add to the fact I wanted the replacements to be similar to the good cosmetic condition of my current ones and I had to pay close on £300 with carriage for 5!
Mind you I asked a local alloy refurbisher and he wanted £70 per wheel to straighten mine with the warning essential heating could damage the visible finish... but he would be pleased to do a full refurb on any that this happened to... for a discounted £235 per wheel!!
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Just to conclude...
The used replacement alloys arrived and were in excellent cosmetic condition and spun are totally true. So just back from the chosen local tyre place with a set of Dunlop Sport BluResponse fitted.
I had the predecessor (Fast Response) on the Alfa and they have been excellent. The BluResponse is leading or well rated many group tests and up there with Michelin (same Euro wet rating, better economy rating and 1db quieter) but £40/set cheaper so paid for half my service filters.
We'll soon see if they can keep this RWD back end on the road.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Wed 14 May 14 at 14:57
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Slow in, fast out. Eez no 'ard
;-)
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BMW 5-Series E39 - Best tyres for 525D Estate. - PeterS
