tinyurl.com/nhyq8sr
Just saw this posted on another forum.
Do you think police would be interested in tracking them down? Looks to me like it was shot in the 90's.
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>> Do you think police would be interested in tracking them down?
To train them as pursuit drivers perhaps? Absolutely nothing there said lunacy to me. Looked like a very competent piece of fast driving, perhaps a little discourteous at times but nothing worse than that.
If anything the camera bike seemed to take more risks.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Wed 7 May 14 at 14:44
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Given that's an early R1 (going by the clocks), and that no other car seems to be any newer than very late 90s, I reckon this is pretty old footage. Not sure where that stands the Porsche owner (whose plate is clearly visible) legally.
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It is a very old video, so old I wonder if the statute of limitations applies. Been discussed on Pistonheads.
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If all someone can see on that video is a little discourtesy then, in my opinion, their hazard perception is rather limited.
Some drivers, who think they are good, only avoid accidents because of the evasive actions of others.
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>> Absolutely nothing there said lunacy to me. Looked
>> like a very competent piece of fast driving, perhaps a little discourteous at times but
>> nothing worse than that.
I do enjoy your posts, AC. But surely when you rely on others getting out of your way to stay safe....well, not best practice to say the least!
Last edited by: ToMoCo on Thu 8 May 14 at 09:00
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Perhaps I didn't let strict accuracy get in the way of a bit of provocation... certainly one wouldn't drive like that with nippers in the car.
But for the record, from memory, I can't recall seeing any other car having to alter course to keep out of that Porsche's way. Fortunately, since the gaps were very tight a lot of the time, none of them waddled into its way either which is the main danger when people drive like that.
A bit reckless perhaps, but well short of lunacy.
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>> But for the record, from memory, I can't recall seeing any other car having to
>> alter course to keep out of that Porsche's way.
I thought the Peugot 106(?) swerved a bit at 1:50, but after looking at it again I'm not so sure. Definitely tight.
Last edited by: Focusless on Thu 8 May 14 at 13:56
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>>I can't recall seeing any other car having to alter course to keep out of that Porsche's way.
Pretty much all of the cars from 2:40 to 3:10 had to drive in the crap on the white line to avoid a head-on.
At 5:32 (and ~140-150mph) the Porsche is almost running out of road on the nearside.
'a bit reckless' - antisocial behaviour of the highest order, worthy of a very long ban from the roads.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Thu 8 May 14 at 14:21
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>> antisocial behaviour of the highest order, worthy of a very long ban from the roads.
Discourteous and a bit reckless, thus antisocial... but 'of the highest order'? Come come Lygonos. We've all seen worse than that. Some of us have done worse than that in our time. I certainly have (not recently) although not in a Porsche and not at 150mph...
Very sensible of the cars coming the other way to squeeze over onto the marbles don't you think?
:o}
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>>but 'of the highest order'?
Short of actually doing physical harm to other people, yes.
Significant risk of catastrophically annihilating uninvolved parties, putting others in alarm for their lives for self-gratification.
Pretty high order IMO.
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>> Significant risk of catastrophically annihilating uninvolved parties, putting others in alarm for their lives for self-gratification.
Oh all right, that's about the size of it really. Pretty competent driving of its kind nevertheless, even if no sane adult would do anything like that without very good reason. Anyway flash behaviour guaranteed to attract attention.
Were you never sort of there yourself years ago in your immortal and idiot youth Lygonos? I thought every car person had skirted that territory, however briefly.
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>>Were you never sort of there yourself years ago in your immortal and idiot youth Lygonos?
I've had my moments, but not a sustained attack of mongolism as demonstrated in this video.
I've always found judicious acceleration and getting an apex just right far more gratifying that going at V-max and playing dodgems.
It would not be a lie that one reason I moved on from the Forester XT was because of its ability to reach a three-figure speed on any motorway sliproad....
Doing 100mph in a modern car on an open road is no more dangerous than opening your front door.
Doing it 12 inches from cars passing in the opposite direction, however, is bad form.
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I do find your use of the term mongolism rather offensive and surprising coming from a Doctor.
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I agree it is an offensive term that originated as a racist medical description (of Down's Syndrome sufferers).
Like lunatic, retard, idiot, cretin (all medical tems in their time) and so forth it is becoming more used as a description of unintelligent behaviour (along with choice nouns for such as flange, muppet, numptie, dobber, helmet, etc some of which come from very rude origins)
However, there is no getting away from the fact it originated as a pseudo-scientific racial slur and probably should be pfd'd by any mod reading this.
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>> XT was because of its ability to reach a three-figure speed on any motorway sliproad....
>> Doing it 12 inches from cars passing in the opposite direction, however, is bad form.
You go down the slip road on the wrong side of the autopista in England?
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No. I'm in Scotland so I tend to drive on the pavements.
While high on glue and hairspray.
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And eating a deep fried Mars Bar :)
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>> And eating a deep fried Mars Bar :)
>>
Excuse please, is Tapas Escocia si?
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>>And eating a deep fried Mars Bar
You forgot the Buckfast.
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>> had my moments, but not a sustained attack of mongolism as demonstrated in this video.
You're exaggerating Lygonos. Skilled reckless getaway driving, not dangerous idiocy. We've all seen that too and it's different.
Downs nippers were called mongols when I was a child. Met a couple. But couldn't sympathise when a child myself because of the unpreposessing Downs demeanour. As an adult you can see that the nippers mean well, they just make faces because they can't help it. As a child you take grimaces personally.
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>> Oh all right, that's about the size of it really. Pretty competent driving of its
>> kind nevertheless, even if no sane adult would do anything like that without very good
>> reason.
Unfortunately there are too many people around who regard the ability to drive fast as the ability to drive well.
Any hatched area, and any area outside white edge markings is very likely to contain bits of metal that damage tyres and you enter them at your peril. That the porche driver habitually uses these areas whilst driving at high speed means he does not understand the risks he is taking. A puncture at these speeds would, if we were lucky, kill him but unfortunately it is more likely to kill someone else.
Behaviour for a track day, not a public road. But the track day organisers would probably throw him out.
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The manoeuvre the Porsche pulls at 1:50 is just one of a handful which force other drivers to take avoiding action. 2:40-2:45 sees several more.
Appalling driving. Speed is one thing, but relying on other drivers being awake to avoid a catastrophic accident is quite another.
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>> Speed is one thing, but relying on other drivers being awake to avoid a catastrophic accident is quite another.
We rely on other drivers to be awake enough to avoid 'catastrophic accidents' every time we get into our cars DP. Long may insomnia rule on the road!
I've been enjoying this thread. People who think my posts have been frivolous and irresponsible may well have a point. But it's a whole lot more difficult and interesting to defend the almost-indefensible than it is to harrumph and say 'shocking', 'disgraceful', etc etc.
I don't know whether to be more appalled by people's hypocrisy in pretending they've never done anything like that or by their wimpishness in never having even tried.
Raspberry either way.
:o}
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>> Raspberry either way.
Rasp away. Real men don't need to prove themselves by behaving in a potentially murderous manner.
Yes, I pushed some boundaries on the road when younger. But knew which ones shouldn't be overstepped.
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>>I don't know whether to be more appalled by people's hypocrisy in pretending they've never done anything like that or by their wimpishness in never having even tried.
Sustained 100mph+ driving through traffic? That'll be me you can call a wimp then.
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>> Real men don't need to prove themselves by behaving in a potentially murderous manner.
>> Sustained 100mph+ driving through traffic? That'll be me you can call a wimp then.
Harrumph harrumph... well reasoned chaps. Sincerely. What we really need here is seriousness about serious matters.
Harrumph.
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>>Do you think police would be interested in tracking them down?
Ridiculous driving behaviour but being hunted down for 20yr old motoring offences where nobody was killed or seriously injured seems a little excessive.
I'm struggling with Yewtree, never mind the motoring version.
Although there was this bloke in a Ford Anglia once who pulled out in front of me and caused me to stub my cigarette into my own face as I collided with the steering wheel of my Hillman Hunter. About 1975 I think it was.
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6 months limitation factor unless they go for an obscure offence under the Offences Against the Person Act - which may even be repealed by now.
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One man's speed is another man's entertainment as this cartoon explains:
youtu.be/iu_iEL7U-0E
Ahem.
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>> >>Do you think police would be interested in tracking them down?
>>
>> Ridiculous driving behaviour but being hunted down for 20yr old motoring offences where nobody was
>> killed or seriously injured seems a little excessive.
>>
I agree, just wondered if it would be something they put any effort in to. Seems to be confirmed by PU that it won't be.
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M777 MJH still exists and is shown as insured. I'm also 99% certain I've seen it in the South East.
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So you're on holiday driving with the family having a great time. You look in your mirror, signal and start your manouvre to make a right turn.
But in that fraction of a second your eyes left the mirror and you start to turn - SMACK! the idiot in the Porsche has ploughed into the side of your car at 100mph+ closely followed by a bike.
Porsche driver is killed instantly. The biker has been flung 75 yards down the road and is also dead.
You have serious head injuries and will never walk again, be fed through a tube and need 24 hour care for the rest of your life. One of your children in the back of your car is also dead, again having been killed instantly. Family wrecked.
Now someone please tell me at what point this remains to be 'entertainment'?
Now I know the footage is old and the above scenario didnt happen, but it could have. Its the unknown and the unplanned which causes crashes and I refuse to believe this idiot has sufficient driving skills to prevent crashing, relying instead on more luck than judgement. He did it once so he'll probably do it again until his luck runs out. Sadly its often the guilty party who survive and receive a paltry fine or sentence whilst the victims pick up the pieces of their lives with a dustpan and brush.
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This post should be repeated whenever some of this macho posturing about driving occurs. it is absolutely right.
The potential reality is as you have said.
Sadly, it doesn't seem to register with some people the potentially devastating consequences of dangerous driving.
No doubt there will be indignation coming from some of the perfect drivers on the forum.
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Don't be too harsh on old AC - he comes from an era where the steering column was basically a javelin aimed at your heart, windows were plate glass, and the side-impact bars were your radius and ulna.
Racing drivers smoked a fag while someone refuelled the car with a funnel and petrol drum 2 feet behind them.
More people died on the roads in the 1930s-2000s than now die in the 2010s.
I do generally enjoy such videos (see also Ghostrider www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJyF6Vvxoz4 with cars being passed at 200+mph on one wheel) but this fool in the Porsche is whapping about all over the place - there's none of the grace you see with a true driving genius.
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>> This post should be repeated whenever some of this macho posturing about driving occurs. it is absolutely right.
Yeah yeah, harrumph harrumph. The post in question pointed out notably that ' Its the unknown and the unplanned which causes crashes '.
Just so. Does it seem rude to point out that a seriously preventative attitude to crashes might lead to a fellow deciding that cars are too risky to be attempted?
People may think I am given to macho posturing if they have a defective sense of irony, but I am far from indignant. The indignation all seems to be on the harrumphing side.
I'm only teasing. Don't get hot under the collar.
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What the Porsche driver did was stupid and dangerous, and had he been nicked at the time it would serve him right. But 20 yrs later?
And somehow, even though I disapprove of his actions, I wouldn't like to think of a world where nobody ever did anything, or thought of doing anything, stupid or dangerous.
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Pedant time.
The porker is described as a Targa, when it is clearly a convertible. Targas of that age had a glass roof.
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Well I would love to think of a world where nobody did anything to endanger other people. If they choose to endanger themselves that is, obviously, up to them.
AC I am sure you are a good person. The problem with forums is only having the text to work from. Sometimes it is difficult to be sure what is intended. Promise I do not raise my blood pressure. However, I do not think driving standards are taken seriously enough. My feelings have been influenced by many aspects but I will point out just three.
1) When I was a young teacher in the 1970s a lovely 10 year old boy in my class was killed by a speeding motorist near to the school.
2) When I was a university tutor, supervising trainee teachers in school, one young man was seriously injured in a speed related crash.
3) Six years ago a speeding car crashed into me and it ended up in the ditch. Driver given speed awareness course. In the car was his three year old daughter and 7 month pregnant wife.
Obviously there is a need to avoid becoming over anxious. If someone is too affected by nerves they shouldn't drive. However, people should be prepared to take action to avoid accidents if possible. In my view there is a need for defensive driving. We can all make mistakes. I've have been grateful on occasions for the help of other drivers and give help where I can.
I certainly don't think I am anywhere near perfect and, in my view, we should all seek to improve driving standards.
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>> I do not think driving standards are taken seriously enough.
Likewise of course. The test is far too undemanding just for a start. But actually the transition from nervous or arrogant beginner to reasonably competent and safe driver requires a lot of road miles and a few near misses.
In the present thread of course I have been playing devil's advocate to tease the harrumphing punitive respectable brethren. Nevertheless I think the red Porsche was driven with rather brutal skill although recklessly. Genuine dangerous lunacy is different. I'm surprised people can't tell the difference apparently.
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In my view skill should not be taken out of context. You say it was reckless, which to me is not safe driving. If you want to drive like that go on a race track. Although reckless drivers would probably get a ban.
There were several points where a major accident was avoided by luck - nothing to do with skill.
The police drive at high speed when needed. It is balancing the risk with the benefit. Sometimes it can go wrong.
In this situation there was no justification and people were put at risk - lunacy.
I do not think there would be any value in looking for the driver now. Hopefully he has grown up.
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Any idiot can drive fast.
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>> Any idiot can drive fast.
Any idiot can press hard on the loud pedal. But 'driving fast' in traffic without crashing quite soon is another matter as you of all people know full(chat) well.
Trouble from everyone's point of view is that there are toerags who can do it.
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Indeed there are and I have on an odd occasion been behind some of those who have demonstrated that ability. In the clip we are discussing this person was not one of those as was rightly pointed out they drove on the 'dirty' areas and barged their way through overtakes.
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Who can do it sometimes. Often at cost to others. When they don't make it......
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>> The test is far too undemanding just for a start.
>>
You've said that on numerous occasions. But baring in mind it is condsiderably tougher than the test anyone on here took, how would you change it?
There is no way I've ever heard of teaching someone experience other than shoving them out on their own once they've had a grounding on the principles and can show they are basically safe.
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>> it is condsiderably tougher than the test anyone on here took, how would you change it?
Yes, point taken, times have changed and so has the driving test. It was utter rubbish in my day. But I must reluctantly admit that once I twigged it wasn't about driving but being able to conduct a small car fairly smoothly at very low speeds in the gears, I passed the test at the third attempt and managed not to kill or maim anyone while getting those miles under my belt.
To say that was pure good fortune would be falsely modest. There was an element of intelligence too, and the slow reluctant absorption of experience in the form of many smallish crashes and a few life-threatening near-misses. Of course no decent chap wants to cause death or injury.
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Speed is quite evocative, I fully get where AC is coming from (and understand he is over egging a bit in relation to the posted video).
I have a car, some would say quite a fast car, although some other dogs would say I need a decent car ;-).
I like to use it (and I mean really use it) and keep it exercised now and again. It’s claimed it can do 170, but I can honestly say I’ve never taken it a click over 150, and that is always more than 6 months ago ;-). I get a ‘rush’ from the brutal acceleration whether I’m doing 20 or 80. On a ‘motoring’ forum, I would hope the majority understand that.
Do I feel reckless or dangerous? No, or I wouldn’t do it, but I suppose some think I am.
I can drive a big powerful car with big powerful brakes at 100+ and feel fully alive, awake – ALERT. I can drive my sedate saloon at 65 and ‘lose’ entire chunks of the journey. I can drive a fully laden Sprinter for miles on end at 70, I can propel 17 and a half tons of metal down the motorway at 56 staring at nothing but the back end of another truck for hours on end.
Do I feel dangerous in any of these situations? No, But which carries the most risk?
I estimate I’ve driven nearly 750,000 miles in my 21 years of driving with 2 fault accidents early on – first was the classic 5mph into the back of someone who I thought had already gone and the other when I was young and invincible working 12 hours a day and spending the other 13 with friends – I planted my car in the Armco at 2am one morning.
Maybe I’m just a constant risk on our roads?
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'When I was your age' I used to drive my V6 24valve Toyota Supra down the M20 in Kent so fast the windscreen surround flew orf once.
But like you, my accidents have been relatively low speed jobbies and, I've always said that I'm actually more alert at 98MPH than I am at 60-70MPH, occifer.
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>> so fast the windscreen surround flew orf once.
:-#
>> But like you, my accidents have been relatively low speed jobbies
To be honest, I think one of mine was pretty high speed judging by the shape left in the side of my car, I just don't know :(
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Remember at 150mph you're covering something like 75 yards per second, so by the time something happens that makes you hit the brakes you are 75yd closer to it (and still travelling at 150mph)
Safe?
Yeah totally...
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>> Safe?
>>
>> Yeah totally...
>>
Can't be 'that' unsafe though...because the Old Bill are allowed to do it and so would any other emergency service if they had anything that would go that fast.
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Driving at 150mph need not, in itself, be unsafe.
However, first the level of competence in some people at 30mph doesn't lead me to be happy at the idea of them driving at that speed.
Secondly, even a competent person will have less time to cope with someone else's actions if something goes wrong.
Insofar as emergency services versus "ordinary" person - I'm prepared to accept some level of risk from an emergency service driver who needs to be somewhere in a hurry, because I assume that something important is at stake. I am not so prepared to accept a risk from someone who simply fancies driving at that speed.
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Safe? safe enough.
I am not talking about completing a journey or even any prolonged bout at those sort of speeds. I would never do it in the presence or even mere sight of anyone else.
But I accept people have different tolerance levels of risk.
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V6 Supra? I thought they were all in-line...
WRT the risks, we had a local accident about a year ago featuring an R6 driven by a 20-year old carrying (and possibly showing off to) a passenger when a 4x4 pulled out of a turning on his left. The resultant impact killed the rider and the driver, whose vehicle rolled at least once. The pillion passenger was thrown clear.
I commented on the news site reporting this that the rider would have been travelling far too fast (simple physics) and that it didn't do fellow bikers many favours when they behaved like that. I was roundly berated for lack of sympathy and jumping to conclusions, but it went quieter when the impact speed was analysed and reported as 100mph+
I have to admit that if I'd had an R6 at 20, I'd probably be dead now, too.
Last edited by: J Bonington Jagworth on Mon 12 May 14 at 15:07
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>> V6 Supra? I thought they were all in-line...
Ha...missed that one, you are correct, Various different I6 engines.
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>>V6 Supra? I thought they were all in-line...
Top man! - it was a 3.0-liter DOHC inline six-cylinder engine.
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>> Maybe I’m just a constant risk on our roads?
Yes. We all are. The really important thing is to stay awake at all times without getting tense. Even a slight feeling of stress probably indicates you are going too quickly for your present state.
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Lunacy! - Armel Coussine
