www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-29156697
The 17 yr old was filling-up her Clio when a Focus collided with her car.
It is hard to think of how this could happen. her family must be going through a terrible time.
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Yeah saw that yesterday and just can't get my head round how it could happen.
I can only assume she has either been crushed between the vehicles or somehow maybe knocked over and suffered a fatal blow to her head?
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That's terribly sad, poor little thing and her poor parents.
Nothing in the versions I read about the unhurt male driver being sought or questioned. Did he have a cast-iron excuse or haven't they caught him yet?
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Report being sent to procurator fiscal suggests he didn't run away and charges may or may not follow.
I can't see how crashing into a car being refuelled and someone dying will not lead to criminal charges though.
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Spending a disproportionate time on fuel forecourts (My truck takes petrol and diesel on opposite sides of the truck which involves quite a lot of forecourt ballet....I spend time observing other people...like a lot of routine tasks people seem to disengage from the danger of moving vehicles and fuel....the places are a nightmare. Horrible for all involved this
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The local BBC TV news has just said that the elderly driver of the car (Focus) in front of hers reversed at high speed into the girl that died.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 11 Sep 14 at 19:03
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>> The local BBC TV news has just said that the elderly driver of the car
>> (Focus)
Auto?
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>> >> The local BBC TV news has just said that the elderly driver of the
>> car
>> >> (Focus)
>> Auto?
>>
Will be won't it.
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All tea and sympathy for the driver no doubt as he/she wasn't 'speeding' or holding a phone.
It's time people were punished for having accidents and killing people to focus the minds of drivers, rather than being treated like secondary victims.
Last edited by: Shiny Tailpipes on Thu 11 Sep 14 at 20:02
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>>
>> It's time people were punished for having accidents and killing people to focus the minds
>> of drivers,
I wonder if there would be any connection in reality.
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>>
>> Auto?
>>
They didn't say but it was my first thought.
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>> >>
>> >> Auto?
>> They didn't say but it was my first thought.
>>
Here's another one, but luckily no death or injuries
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-29155585
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Does anyone know if this type of wrong pedal error is common in countries where auto transmissions are more common and people are more likely to have driven auto cars for many years or even exclusively?
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>> Does anyone know if this type of wrong pedal error is common in countries where
>> auto transmissions are more common and people are more likely to have driven auto cars
>> for many years or even exclusively?
Its very common among the elderly in the states, when're the the olds, have never driven a stick shift.
I think its an almost universal auto/elderly thing. I also think without autos a lot of the elderly would have given up driving.
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>>
>> I also think without autos a lot
>> of the elderly would have given up driving.
>>
I don't really get that argument. After a lifetime of driving manuals I'd have thought it was easier to stick with them rather than try something new?
I tried a friend's automatic whan I was about 30. I just couldn't get the hang of it. I could double de-clutch an old car, heal and toe, handle additional gear levers for high/low ratio, 4WD and overdrive, but trying to drive the automatic just felt totally contra-intuitive.
It's a mind thing I know - mine likes being in control, and can't trust anything automatic.
The governor-controlled hand throttle on the tractor is my limit.
Of course this incident may not have involved an automatic. Petrol stations are potentially risky anyway. People who have finished and are leaving, or those just driving through, behave as if they are on a clearway not a pedestrian area. Also you get people manoeuvring backwards into the front pump position being eager to stop someone else nipping in.
And the spacing at some is barely wide enough for modern cars plus people opening doors or lugging fillers and pipes.
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What where the circumstances some idiot in a rush?
So sad and a young live gone.
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>>
>> >>
>> >> I also think without autos a lot
>> >> of the elderly would have given up driving.
>> >>
>>
>> I don't really get that argument. After a lifetime of driving manuals I'd have thought
>> it was easier to stick with them rather than try something new?
The ultimate conclusion is that they wouldn't try something new, and would give up driving earlier than those who had owned autos. And it is easier, much easier to drive an auto, my 83 year old mother who passed her test at 53 would not have had a hope in hell driving a manual, and would not be driving now.
Autos keep the olds on the road well past their sell by dates. Cruel thing to say I know, but true.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 12 Sep 14 at 10:04
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We went through "you really have to give up your car mum" game about two years or so ago. It was a real battle, and only now (she's 86) does she finish the sentence "I wish I still had my car" with the occasional "but I suppose I wouldn't want to really".
It's a hard thing to lose, it reduces the quality of life, or at least changes it significantly, and we didn't want to have to do it. I've had a couple of years of feeling guilty she can't get to do quite what she wants when she wants, or see some of her friends so often or even at all.
But I'm glad we did get her off the road in the end, so are my siblings, and I think mother dear is as well, secretly.
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>> >> I don't really get that argument. After a lifetime of driving manuals I'd have
>>>> thought it was easier to stick with them rather than try something new?
>>
>> The ultimate conclusion is that they wouldn't try something new, and would give up driving
>> earlier than those who had owned autos. And it is easier, much easier to drive
>> an auto, my 83 year old mother who passed her test at 53 would not
>> have had a hope in hell driving a manual, and would not be driving now.
>>
I do the majority of my driving in urban areas. My knees have been creaky for quite a few years and my daily 10 mile crawl to work made me consider an auto especially has I found my sons low mileage 2.0 MkII clutch heavy. This made me decide on an auto earlier rather than later so I switched over. I still regularly drive my daughters Yaris with no real problems.
I tend to keep my cars till they are scrap so an auto would be with me for ten years or so.
I bought my X type from a widow who learned to drive in her mid fifties.
(The car was a surprise birthday present for her.)
She sold it as she preferred driving her late husbands fully loaded long wheelbase old shape XJ .
>> Autos keep the olds on the road well past their sell by dates. Cruel thing to say I know, but true
I tend to agree but we have a couple of 90+ living in my street driving manuals.
There is a good trade in clutch replacement in the retirement areas :-(
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>> I tried a friend's automatic whan I was about 30. I just couldn't get the
>> hang of it. I could double de-clutch an old car, heal and toe, handle additional
>> gear levers for high/low ratio, 4WD and overdrive, but trying to drive the automatic just
>> felt totally contra-intuitive.
>>
I've heard that before but I really don't get it - what could be easier than pressing one pedal to go and the other to stop? You weren't trying to use both feet, where you? Some people do advocate that, but it's not recommended.
I drive both most days and the one thing I do now and again (and I've seen colleagues do the same) is forget to de-clutch a manual while coming to a stop. The other occasional thing I've seen is people hitting the brake pedal in an auto with their left foot when they instictively go for the clutch pedal.
I really don't get how these runaway accidents occur - in the other one linked above, the guy drove both backwards and forwards, so it's not like he froze with his foot on the gas.
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>> The other occasional thing I've seen is people hitting the brake pedal in an auto with their left foot when they instictively go for the clutch pedal.
I do that at the first junction I come to every time I've stepped into an auto.
Don't half stop quick!
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... the one thing I do now and again ... is forget to de-clutch a manual while coming to a stop.
Me too, BP - although usually only if it's been a week or two in the auto and I'm at the top of a motorway exit sliproad. In 30 months with the LEC I've never done the unintended emergency stop I used to do when collecting a rental in the US.
I'm careful with the Brake Hold feature in the LEC, too. A touch on either pedal will release it, but only one will make the car move immediately, so I make sure my foot is away from that, and usually release it with the brake pedal, not the accelerator.
I think this is significant, as it shows you and I are still sufficiently in command of ourselves to be in command of our machinery and aware of the hazards. An auto as a convenience is fine - I've come to really like mine - but it mustn't be used a a substitute for mechanical awareness and control.
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I drive an Auto Jazz and our manual Yaris weekly with no problems...
Maybe I'm gifted :-)
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My T5 is an auto - I also drive the Ka and my MH and works van. Very occasionally I pull up to a Give Way without changing down if driving another manual. Thinking about it it was more prevalent in the V50 - maybe sitting in the cockpit of another similar model. The changes from vehicle to vehicle are 99% reliable..
Funnily enough, another thought - if I use the GS after a week of using the auto Majesty - I occasionally try to stop myself from using the brake and clutch as sort of joint brakes...!
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I've just realised what it is - it's the old problem of a little learning. I know what a clutch does, I've replaced and dismantled them, and I know how a gearbox works, have taken them apart, see how the gears work.
So when I use a manual gearbox I am subconsciously visualising every consequence in the mechanicals of every movement of pedal or lever. I just cannot accept in the same way the working of an hydraulic clutch. You squirt fluid at a stationary vane by whirling another vane attached to the engine, and at some point the stationary vane begins to turn. But the only control is via the engine speed. I could master a foot or hand-held lever gradually feeding in more pressure - like starting a steam engine perhaps.
Perhaps someone with no mechanical knowledge who just learnt by rote could learn it at any age. The lack in cases like this sad one, if it is such, is that the driving licence distinction is not based on any kind of assessment of an individual's actual abilities.
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Torque convertor automatics are easy to drive, but there are risks especially if the car's engine is powerful. It's crucially important when manoeuvring to avoid any heavy throttle input but just take your time and allow the car to creep at idling speed or very little more. If it seems necessary the brake pedal can be covered with the left foot (but that too has a problematic side).
It's a lot quicker to take your time than it is to sort out the consequences of a crunch, even a small one without a tragic outcome.
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Wife's car has reverse opposite 5th. Mine has it adjacent to 1st. Nevertheless, and even though it has a pull-up thing to stop you going into reverse, just the other day I found the car going backwards as I set off.
From a petrol pump.
Fortunately I always set off very gently. Only went about a foot.
I'll readily admit I'm not perfect; merely very good.
;-))
Brain must have only been 95% engaged.
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Another display of forecourt gymnastics this afternoon. A busy forecourt, I'd filled up the bike, paid for my fuel and was kitting up to go. This old guy in a Mitsubishi Outlandish thing was edging up to my pump, for some obscure reason the dumb*** tried to squeeze past me to jump the queue...he only had to wait for me to ride off. I had to raise my voice at him as all my personal and bike proximity alarms were going off, had he knocked the bike off its stand it would have fallen towards me and the fuel pump. Was a silly sausage. Shouldn't be allowed out. Probably a farmer by the look of him.
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It occurs to me that a relevant factor here, especially with older drivers, is the refinement and quietness of so many modern cars, even diesels. When cars were more audible it was easier for a driver not to take off like a jackrabbit by accident. You can come down on the accelerator while turning sideways to see backwards when reversing, and simply not hear that the V6 or whatever is doing 3500 rpm instead of 800...
It's nice of course wafting about in the sort of silence only RR, Cadillac and Lexus drivers used to enjoy. But it carries risks.
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Er, no. Don't think so.
}:---)
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Well think again comrade. It's possible in many auto cars to engage drive or reverse with the engine turning much too fast. If the driver for whatever reason is unaware of the engine speed, he or she may not be covering the brake pedal while engaging the drive. People have habits and make mistakes. In that connection, quietness is a risk factor.
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Agreed AC. With little noise and no vibration or harshness in modern cars, coupled with ailing hearing one assumes, I can see how that can happen.
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I suppose I could find an empty car park and try it with mine, but it seems vanishingly improbable. It beeps a warning if I select - even for a moment - N without the parking brake on. And I can't move it out of P without a foot on the brake. So I'll have to be revving my engine in N to the point where it drowns out the beeps - which it won't do because it's too quiet.
Perhaps the automated biscuit tins favoured by some pensioners don't have the safety features of a Mercedes automatic - but neither do they have the near-silent engine. So I don't see it. How could it happen?
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>> neither do they have the near-silent engine.
The trouble is some do. I take the point WdB that a well-designed, powerful auto will be fairly driver-proof (although you never know with those monkeys). But inadvertent heavy throttle is more of a risk with a very quiet car.
We think of small cars as noisier than big ones, and they are. But it's not often engine noise these days: it's more likely to be road roar and chassis clatter and creak.
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>> Well think again comrade. It's possible in many auto cars to engage drive or reverse
>> with the engine turning much too fast. If the driver for whatever reason is unaware
>> of the engine speed, he or she may not be covering the brake pedal while
>> engaging the drive. People have habits and make mistakes. In that connection, quietness is a
>> risk factor.
>>
You could only do that if already in neutral. Coming from Park, the selector won't move unless the brake pedal is being pressed. Even if using two feet, most (but not all) modern cars (both manual and auto) cut the gas when the brake pedal is depressed.
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Photo in one of the papers today shows the Focus embedded in a hedge.
Apparently girl was knocked down and dragged along by the car.
Tragic
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17yr old driver killed filling-up @ Asda - BobbyG
