My father in law would like a new car. He/they don't go far by car these days ( he's nearly 80 ) but when they do they use trains, planes or coaches. However, they don't want to be without a car just yet. Most of the time it is used to visit us or other relatives but usually not more than ten mile round trips, the usual supermarket runs and most importantly to FIL his weekly trip to the golf club.
He currently has a 2004 Fiesta 1.4 Zetec which he has had for ages ( fairly sure it was nearly new when he bought it ) and has enjoyed but he just fancies a treat to himself of a new or nearly new car. The Ford is about the right size for him and MIL and they don't want to go much bigger or smaller. She wants something "easy to park" and he wants something "big enough for my golf clubs". They both want something they can keep more or less indefinitely until they decide to retire from driving.
Budget is modest but fairly flexible but I'd think they are looking at no more than £10k all up including whatever the Fiesta raises.
So, he's asking my advice as to what to look at. I'm guessing the really small stuff like Aygos and their derivatives might be just a bit too wee but the next size up might just be fine.
Things like air con etc wouldn't be necessary, they don't go far enough to need too many bells and whistles but of course if such things were standard then he'd not turn them down.
I'm inclined to suggest a Panda 1.2 Pop. He could probably get a new one and plenty of change from his £10k I'd have thought.
Any other thoughts from the room?
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Wed 8 Oct 14 at 22:36
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An electric one would seem ideal for their usage. No idea what they go for.
I was thinking Panda before I got to your suggestion. ;>)
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How mobile are they? Ease of getting in and out of a car important now or maybe in future? Would an automatic potentially give him more flexibility for driving longer?
I think the golf clubs might be an important factor. Do they fit in the boot of his current Fiesta?
Don't think a set would fit in the wife's 59 plate Fiesta?
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I'd also look at the Toyota Yaris. My MIL manages to get in without too much difficulty, and it does all the things well. 5 Year warranty, and most Toyota dealers are excellent. The optional satnav is very easy to use too.
I would have recommended the Honda Jazz, but the current model has far too many buttons and complexity for what should be a simple car. The rear seats in the Jazz (and the Civic) are fantastic though - they fold up or down - so carrying the golf clubs on a trolley should fit easily.
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>> I'd also look at the Toyota Yaris.
>>
I am happy with my Yaris, it is a five door and access is easy for us as pensioners. The golf clubs would need one of the rear seats dropped, very easy, pull one button on the top of the backrest and it drops forward. My teenaged grandbrats (one a strapping six footer) fit in the back without problems. My yaris is the diesel Icon plus, the fastest (most tourqe) which is plenty adequate. We have the steepest motorway incline in the UK nearby and it maintains 70 in sixth with two up all the way up the hill, M90 southbound south of Perth, and the engine is still a bit tight at 1,000 miles done. It is well equipped, electric windows front and back, cruise, auto lights and wipers, reversing camera, Bluetooth, dual auto climate control, comprehensive but simple to use touch screen with optional sat nav. It is comfortable , very manouverable, easy to drive, and a surprisingly capable car with excellent build quality.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 9 Oct 14 at 08:33
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Does your FiL want to own outright?
Would a lease be a viable alternative? You lease the car (given his age), should the worst happen you take over the lease for your lad - will he be driving in the next 3-4 years?
FIAT 500 or Skoda Fabia can be had for around £130/month over 4 years.
Sell the '04 Fiesta privately, a dealer is only going to give you the buttons and fluff in his pocket for one.
An alternative view on the world, might work for him, might not. Depends on what his attitude is to owning outright a depreciating asset. He could get a brand new car and still not spend £10k over the next four years. Of course he won't own it at the end of that period.
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He might be too old (as, probably, am I) to qualify for a lease deal, which is basically a credit scoring thing.
Last edited by: Roger. on Thu 9 Oct 14 at 10:04
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>> Any other thoughts from the room?
Deeply impressed with Nicoles Fiesta Mk7. He wouldn't go far wrong with the latest model of what he's got. www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201407085653883
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>> www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201407085653883
Might notice the drop in performance? 0-60 goes from 12.3 (1.4 Zetec) to 16.9. Might not bother him of course, but my dad, who is a very slow and steady driver, once had a go in a Golf with similar performance and found it too tardy. We had a 1.3 Escort at the time IIRC.
Last edited by: Focusless on Thu 9 Oct 14 at 08:01
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Looks like a 1.0 EcoBoost Fiesta would be in budget though, which is a bit quicker than his old car.
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>> Looks like a 1.0 EcoBoost Fiesta would be in budget though, which is a bit
>> quicker than his old car.
>>
See my review on the Focus eco boost before making that choice! Though the Fiesta itself is a cracking car to drive.
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>> >> www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201407085653883
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>> Might notice the drop in performance?
It was just a representative ad to show the type of car in the price range, and he is nearly 80 FFS
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MIL favours another Fiesta because "I'm used to those and it's never let us down" which is fair enough but I think he's thinking "I've had one of those and I fancy trying something else" so hence the sharing of the thought.
I quite like the Yaris suggestion, still favour a Panda but also thought of a VW Up or one of the Skoda/Seat versions. Boot might be tight for the Golf clubs though.
Guess there's always those Sandero thingies. Reluctant to recommend a budget Renault though. Might just be me.
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>> MIL favours another Fiesta because "I'm used to those and it's never let us down"
So if you steer them towards something else it'll be your fault if they don't get on with it or there's a problem!
Who looks after their current car? If they're going to rely on a franchised dealership then having the relevant brand handy might be a factor.
I would default to Jazz too, but then we've had 3 of them in the family. At the price you're looking at the i-Shift automated manual versions (first couple of years of the current model) might be in range - they're regarded as difficult to use.
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Good point on the "it'll be my fault" thing Bill !
Most big brands have a dealership where they live so servicing etc wouldn't normally be a problem. The old Fiesta goes to a trusted local Indy but I guess if they bought something new they might take it to the supplying dealer for its first year or three.
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An immaculate ex lease A3 1.6 Tdi SE Sportback? Rear reversing sensors ( easy parking) and heated seats ( keep the old joints warm in winter)
Getting cheaper by the month....unfortunately I am back in the UK soon so it's gotta go....
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Now, y'see, you and I both know that would be more than ideal.
Selling that notion to them would be a different thing altogether. ( worries about too many miles, too big, too expensive to fix etc etc )
;-)
How much silver would your palm need crossing with anyway?
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Dollars or sterling?
My CA chum has just bought a season pass which covers 4 resorts in the Tahoe area, so tempted as I am to keep it as a runaround...there are better things to spend my money on.
Say £7250. Includes recent major service & belt change
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It's not really clear why they want to change. if it's only a whim then keeping what they've got is probably best? If they are set on change then I'd agree that later model Fiesta is a good choice. Given that it's a completely different car to their existing one it is a real change if that is important. However seeing the number of "more experienced" who have a Jazz that might be first place to look. Incidentally re Aygo my father in law who is 80 bought one (without advice) and finds it tinny after his previous solid Fabia which he now misses. Now there's an idea, a new Fabia can be had for less than £10k. Assuming it's being a run-out model with limited power is not an issue then it's worth thinking about? Re the fault issue, they have asked for advice so I guess all you can do is draw up a shortlist, help them view them but leave the final choice to them.
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It is just a desire rather than a need to change but fair enough if that's what they want to do I guess. I had rather had my eye on the existing Fiesta for my son when he wants to start to drive in just over two years from now. Would have been ideal for that maybe.
Fabia might be a good thought thanks.
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Ah, Fiesta is the obvious lads choice and the Jazz not all I guess! My son had a Felicia as his first car and loved it (6'3" 18 year old at the time). His subsequent Peugeot 206 and Corsa have never quite filled the Skoda gap a far as he is concerned despite being ostensibly more youthful cars. Given this new angle I look forward to some innovative cross generational ideas from our fellow posters!
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A Jazz is decently high for aged joints when entering or exiting! (Personal experience).
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Panda gets the nod for ease of access too. My mother used to prefer lifts in it (or the Forester that preceeded it and FRV that follwed it) over the Legacy or brother's 3 series.
He'd need to check the boot width to fit a golf bag on its side, though, or whether the current ones have a split folding rear seat if he'd have to load the bag lenghtways (split seat wasn't standard on the old-shape Panda.
Skoda Roomster is being discontinued too, afaik. Might you get a 1.2 petrol one in budget if a more spacious Felicia-alike is in the reckoning?
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>> Any other thoughts from the room?
>>
Tell him to give up golf, then he would have a much wider choice of car!
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>>My father in law would like a new car
.
>> He/they don't go far by car these days ( he's nearly 80 )
>>However they don't want to be without a car just yet.
If he gets a much newer car it is likely to have more standard features and lots more controls etc.
Do you think he will easily adapt to these changes or be distracted/ stressed by them ?
If he changes to another Ford then there may be a bit more commonality with his existing controls.
I am assuming no change to an auto.
At least my X type retains a "normal" on/off volume control knob.
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I worry whether a Panda's boot is big enough for golf clubs.
Left-field:
Dacia Sandero Stepway.
Plus £800 to extend the warranty.
Big boot, raised stance for easy entry and egress, VERY minimal technology to get to grips with.
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Sell them your missus's Nissan Squashcow, it will save you a four tune in door mirrors.
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Not sure I buy the "If it's too hard he won't understand it" argument. If he can't work a different radio or an electric door mirror without driving off the road he probably shouldn't be driving at all - and that goes for us all, regardless of age.
Incidentally, I presume the Fiesta required the back seat to be folded to accommodate a golf bag, especially if there was a trolley involved as well.
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>> If he gets a much newer car it is likely to have more standard features
>> and lots more controls etc.
>> Do you think he will easily adapt to these changes or be distracted/ stressed by
>> them ?
Good God - I'm 79 this coming December we aren't all fazed by "new" stuff, you know!
Ageist. :-)
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www.motorpoint.co.uk/VehicleAdvert/SKODA/ROOMSTER/497311
£9k, 14 plate, 1800m on the clock. It's a Fabia from the A post forward, but has a capacious rear compartment for passengers and/or golf clubs.
Fisher Price radio controls, simple air conditioning, rear parking sensors.
The wheels are clearly the standard 15", not the 16s.
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>>The wheels are clearly the standard 15", not the 16s.
The ad says 16".
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Haven't looked but I imagine M's point is that the ad states the wheel size wrongly.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Thu 9 Oct 14 at 21:22
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>> Haven't looked but I imagine M's point is that the ad states the wheel size
>> wrongly.
Correct. Sorry not to be explicit.
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I don't know how mobile the outlaws are, but the chances are that they will get less so in their 80s, so a priority is going to be comfort and ease of entry / exit. Ideally they should go to some showrooms and try some cars out.
They might find the styling of the new-shape Fiesta means that rear visibility isn't good enough, but it'll be worth a look. Otherwise in their shoes I'd look at:
VW Polo
Skoda Fabia
Honda Jazz
Toyota Yaris
Nissan Note (it's shrunk recently but the previous version is roomier than the others).
I have the same view about Fiats as you do about Renaults, and for the same reason, but as you say they might like the Panda. I'm sure they're lovely people, so I wouldn't wish a Corsa on them.
If they need an automatic they need to avoid the semi-automatic rubbish (Yaris would be out, and as someone said above, so would the first 2 or so years of the current-shape Jazz).
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To correct myself, I should have said the Roomster is a Fabia from the B post forward. It was allegedly designed for a "supermini" driving experience combined with a larger flexible passenger/luggage space.
I recently found one similar to the above for my uncle and aunt (84 & 78) as they liked the slightly raised seating position, and their even older friends can almost walk into the back. Front seats are height adjustable too.
Last edited by: Manatee on Thu 9 Oct 14 at 17:02
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Looking at another thread I'm reminded of the Suzuki Splash / Vauxhall Agila. That could be worth adding to the short-list of they fancy something quite upright in terms of the driving position.
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Some great suggestions here. Thanks all.
He made a tragic ( well in motoring terms tragic ) mistake when he first retired and bought a brand new Proton Compact. Hateful thing which eventually he more or less had to give away. He's been pleased with his Fiesta and doesn't want to lash up on his next purchase.
MIL says she likes the slightly sitty uppy driving position of their current car so the Splash / Agila / Roomster / Note ideas might be a good direction to explore.
He'd quite like a Fiesta ST, I know he would, but he'd not be allowed one. I might point out to him that we could quietly get one de-badged if he can rustle up / raise the cash to fund the purchase...
;-)
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Your FiL needs to put his Crocs down and tell his bride that ST stands for 'sensible taxi'. Two friends of mine have 4yo MB four seat soft tops, not sure of the designation, and their golf clubs fit ok, and the depreciation at that age might bring them within budget. If so, I think that ilk of car would do nicely.
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Would it still qualify as 'easy to park'?
(Yes, our 4.8m LECs are very easy to park, but some people are afraid of big - or even non-tiny - cars, and the expectation of trouble can become self-fulfilling.)
LL's friends' cars sound like CLKs to me. Friend of mine has a 2005 one, and it's certainly nicer than a Fiesta - although it takes a bit of origami to get myself in when the top's up.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Thu 9 Oct 14 at 21:20
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>>Would an automatic potentially give him more flexibility for driving longer?
Absolutely not. People who haven't driven autos before shouldn't adopt them when they're old.
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FIL is here right now with his current car. He likes to borrow our dog as an excuse for a long walk.
Was chatting to him over lunch as to his car plans and we drifted outside to look at the "old" one.
I couldn't remember when he bought it but he reminded me that he'd had it from nearly new. Ex-demonstrator or something like that at the time.
Anyway, I suppose I've never really looked at it all that closely and to my astonishment ( I knew they didn't go far in it ) despite being ten years old now it has only 22,000 miles on it. Absolutely immaculate condition too and full service history. Kind of bright blue metallic. The sort of shade Ford have more recently used on their sportier models.
He says it's never given him any bother and he likes driving it but just fancies a change. Totally understand that but part of me wants to tell him he'd be bonkers to sell it.
Maybe I will, in a gentler sort of way of course.
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>> People who haven't driven autos before shouldn't adopt them when they're old.
People who haven't driven autos before should think carefully about what they are doing, particularly so if they are older.
If they think it is a step too far then young or old, they should think carefully about their competency levels.
However, there is no absolute reason why they should not do so provided they are competent to do so.
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I've never really understood why some seem to make so much fuss over driving different vehicles. Both my wife and I seem perfectly able to jump in or out of manuals or autos, large or small cars, left hand drive or right hand drive, driving on the right when abroad or domestically on the left, putting petrol in petrol cars and putting diesel in diesel ones without having to think too hard about any of the above.
And no, I am not under any illusions about being some kind of driving God, I'm just a regular bloke who finds it tough to understand why some find it so challenging or manage to convince themselves that it is.
It can't just be me.
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I don't understand why it is a challenge to some, but clearly it is.
I drive left hand right hand drive, manual and auto, big and small and honestly never even think about it.
On the other hand, I know seemingly competent drivers who completely lose the plot between driving on the left and driving on the right.
But in other things, switching languages for example, I struggle [possilbe I am the worst translator / interpreter ever] whereas my wife can switch back and forth seamlessly in the same conversation without missing a beat.
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Actually I don't agree. Driving any unfamiliar vehicle, or driving in an unfamiliar place with everything the wrong way round and unexpected rules, does have a challenging side. How could it not? You are trained in the highly specific requirements of one vehicle or environment, and you have to learn the new one's 'rules'.
I embrace this requirement with joy, interest and genuine pleasure, nearly always. I am fully aware of what I am doing and it is a conscious process. Others - Humph evidently is one - simply adapt in a largely unconscious way being, I suppose, less in love with the automobile than I am, and perhaps more familiar with it than they would really like to be in an ideal world.
My ideal world has lots of jalopies in it, of all sorts. Or nearly all. Even I have sometimes learned to dislike one. But very rarely.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Fri 10 Oct 14 at 17:46
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>>Actually I don't agree
With which bit, AC?
To be clear, I was disagreeing with the statement that older people should not switch to auto per se.
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I know, and you were quite right in my book! I had the impression you and Humph - both long-distance experienced drivers in domestic and exotic terrains - were playing down the challenge of unfamiliarity in vehicle or environment, as it were denying that it's a challenge.
It actually is a challenge, even to such as thee or me. We may enjoy it or just deal with it without thinking much, but think what it means to the timid, the poor in collapsing jalopies, the stupid, the prone-to-panic, the Double-Take Brothers jumpy, the white-handed lady in the middle of nowhere with oil dripping out of the sump... utter nightmare. All very well for us, no joke for some though.
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Aye well, maybe you're right AC, but as you've often said before, it's not like driving is all that difficult. To a lot of people anyway. It's a fairly normal everyday experience.
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I had to think quite carefully when I drove a Ford Capri, manual with no clutch (broken cable) from Exeter to Surrey.
Now that really makes you plan and forward think your driving.
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Just as well it was a Ford gearbox. A BL gearbox-in-sump jobbie would have been in shards in very short order. I learned how to do clutchless gearchanges in a Cortina on Salisbury Plain quite a long time ago.
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Pah ! Exeter to Surrey?
Try a Mk1 Panda from St Moritz to Edinburgh in winter with a broken clutch cable. Well, I kind of rigged up a clutch-like arrangement which consisted of some strong nylon-ish cord tied to the clutch release lever on the bell housing, fed through a grommet hole in the bulkhead and held in my hand which was protected by a thick ski glove. By hauling really hard on the cord I could just about get the clutch to release enough to clunk it into a gear or neutral. Did require some mental and physical gymnastics or indeed the assistance of my ex-wife to change gear while negotiating corners in particular.
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>> I had to think quite carefully when I drove a Ford Capri, manual with no clutch (broken cable) from Exeter to Surrey.
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>> Now that really makes you plan and forward think your driving.
>>
Had to do a similar act but from Littledean ( on the Welsh side of the Severn ) down to the Severn Bridge and back to Hounnslow
Clutch was perfect but the spigot bearing had failed.
Few traffic lights and mostly Motorway. I did it early Sunday morning to avoid lots of traffic.
Juggling position to get a slow run to the toll booth and chuck the money at the booth without slowing too much was tricky.
My brother had previously driven it in the opposite direction from M4 services to Littledean.
It stalled a mile short of our destination and we had to roll backwards down hill through blind bends. Now that was scary but we just made it to my uncles funeral..
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My clutch hydraulics went frupnys up somewhere around Hanger Lane on the North Circular. I was in a 3.5 Range Rover with a nineteen feet long car transporter trailer. It wasn't rush hour but it was busy. I had dropped a car off somewhere West and was heading for a scrap yard in the East End somewhere to collect another.
I started her up in first gear...bumping forward until the motor fired. I couldn't shift into second but 3rd was ok. Fourth was a no-no as well. No 5th then...that's all I had. I judged all the traffic lights, pulling in if they'd been on green for a while and then starting off when the red/amber came up.
My destination had good parking and the guys told me there was a parts place not far away. A five minute walk saw me coming back with a slave cylinder which I fitted, bled the system and made it all work again.
The car I was collecting was a real rarity.......An Austin A40 Somerset convertible. I wonder where it is now ....I've got a photo somewhere.
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>> Actually I don't agree. Driving any unfamiliar vehicle, or driving in an unfamiliar place with
>> everything the wrong way round and unexpected rules, does have a challenging side. How could
>> it not?
I've driven thousands of miles in France, venturing into Germany, Switzerland and Spain in my own car with no problem at all.
OTOH last year I drove a LHD hire car for first time during a break on Majorca and found myself in brain overload several times. Seemed far easier to, lose plot at junctions, pass wrong side of a traffic island or even end up on left side than in my own car. Cannot believe it was the Mallorquin roads that were confusing so much as the odd perspective and needing to swop gearchange funtion from left to right hand.
Being driven by Mrs B, who drives and tows the caravan quite competently in France was even more alarming.
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We're all different, and cars are all different too. My first real car was lhd anyway. I was cruel to it and it didn't last long.
Herself has driven on the Continent, but she really doesn't want to especially in towns. In fact she won't, so I do virtually all of it. Suits me of course.
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If driving a car with a manual gear change, I actually prefer a LHD. Can't say why but it just feels more natural somehow. I'm not especially right handed or anything either, happy enough to use tools in either hand and though I mostly write with my right hand I'm not averse to scribbling a note with my left hand if I'm holding the phone or, ahem, the steering wheel ( in a safely parked vehicle of course.... ) with my right hand.
;-)
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When driving a LHD car abroad there is a tendency to drive too near to the kerb which can be alarming to to the passenger if there is a sheer drop.
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I have no issue whatsoever, in truth I do not even notice nor drive any differently, provided that the car I am driving is "correct-handed" for the country I am in.
I find driving a "wrong-handed" car hard work and requires constant thought [for me] until I complete a conscious changeover which takes a few days to both change to and later from.
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You probably have more experience of driving abroad than most but there is a natural tendency to drift towards the kerb observable in most drivers when they drive "wrong handed". I know I do for the first dat or two. Have also observed this tendency in American friends when they have hired cars over here.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Fri 10 Oct 14 at 19:23
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>> If driving a car with a manual gear change, I actually prefer a LHD. Can't
>> say why but it just feels more natural somehow. I'm not especially right handed or
>> anything either, happy enough to use tools in either hand and though I mostly write
>> with my right hand I'm not averse to scribbling a note with my left hand
>> if I'm holding the phone or, ahem, the steering wheel ( in a safely parked
>> vehicle of course.... ) with my right hand.
>>
>> ;-)
>>
I'm the opposite, right handed but in a left hand drive cannot get double de-clutch gearchange coordination. RHD no problem, do it in my sleep with my left hand - gear change that is before BBD steps in.
In a LHD I feel like I'm trying to pull the gearbox to pieces.
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>> But in other things, switching languages for example, I struggle [possilbe I am the worst
>> translator / interpreter ever] whereas my wife can switch back and forth seamlessly in the
>> same conversation without missing a beat.
>>
It's when your children do it and you are a second or two behind them it gets a little embarrassing. Especially, when they are 8 and 6. They have grown up with it and you simply have not. Throw in a bit of local dialect and you are left looking a total lemon.
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No it's not...I too can alternate between the slow as a slow thing A3 diesel & the 330 and almost instinctively know their capabilities and adjust my driving style to suit. Just as well really, as flooring the A3 in third to overtake a bunch of mimsers could be suicidal!
On the other side of the pond I drive, according to how I feel, my friends Toyota Tundra 4.7 V8, Subaru Outback, or Scion stick shift. Sometimes all three on the same day. Admittedly, the first time I drove the Tundra, big thing as it is, on the other side of the road and down to Sacramento, I felt slightly nervous and switched the radio off to concentrate, but after 30 minutes I had 'acclimatised'.
As you know, right turns are permitted on red, unless otherwise indicated, and a few days ago coming up the off ramp on H50, two vehicles ahead of me made a right turn against the prohibited sign. I didn't, and got blasted from behind. Several times. So I switched off, climbed down and made rude comments, face to face, to the person behind. Something along the lines of where to stick his head and Yogi's derrière. In the best Queens English, which, being born in Bradford, is pretty poor. Brightened my day but my friends later told me it was not the smartest thing to do in gun happy CA.
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>> two vehicles ahead of me made a right turn against the prohibited sign. I didn't, and got blasted from behind. Several times. So I switched off, climbed down and made rude comments,
I know you're a fine fellow legacy but you were wrong there and being if I may say so a bit of a PITA. When the locals are doing something illegal but convenient it ill behoves some uptight foreigner to get in everyone's way merely to observe the goddam regulations. How could you? You were just a tourist no doubt, all the time in the world. Others were in their usual hurry.
Actually if a police car had seen you it would have shouted at you to behave properly, and shot you if you argued. Quite rightly too.
:o}
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Golf clubs, grand kids and shopping - bathtub tom
