Motoring Discussion > Is welding acceptable Buying / Selling
Thread Author: martin aston Replies: 26
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New Fri 2 Jul 10 20:29 
 Is welding acceptable - martin aston
Some of my first cars in the 70's were rust buckets where a fair bit of welding was needed at MOT time. More recently I have had new cars and the tin worm hasn't been an issue. Now however I am helping my son look for a cheap car, say about 10 years old. Some (e.g. an otherwise nice 1998 Fiesta) have had welding e.g to seat belt mounts and sills. I am steering him away from welded cars on the basis that I worry that there are hidden rusty weak points compromising the car's structural integrity and that once you start it, more welding will be needed. I just wonder if I'm being too cautious if the welding has been done by a reputable outfit? After all rust was par for the course in my early days. Or am I right to think that, with modern cars often being well-protected, there are plenty old cars where its not an issue so we should choose accordingly? For what its worth Astras and 306s seem especially rust free on my limited look so far.
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New Fri 2 Jul 10 20:32 
 Is welding acceptable - Zero
Plenty of rust free cars about, no need to accept one thats already on its way out. As you said you have a nose for those that are safe in this respect.
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New Fri 2 Jul 10 20:41 
 Is welding acceptable - Old Navy
I would steer clear of welded cars, many cars have areas of high strength steel to pass crash tests. These may have been replaced with random cut up scrapyard panels.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 2 Jul 10 at 20:43
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New Fri 2 Jul 10 20:54 
 Is welding acceptable - The Nut
There are plenty of 10 year old cars that have never been welded and won't need to be for many years, so I would look for one of those.

In my own experience escort, fiesta, corsa b and Volvo 440 are particular rusty 90's cars.

The French cars and all other Volvo's and Saab's that have been in my family had no such problems.
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New Fri 2 Jul 10 21:11 
 Is welding acceptable - Iffy
'Y' and '51' reg cars are coming up to 10-years-old now.

The Focus I sold last year was a '52' and it had no rust at all - not even at the base of the rear window, and certainly nothing structural.

So I'm with the others on this - the OP should be able to find a rust-free car easily enough.

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New Fri 2 Jul 10 21:45 
 Is welding acceptable - FotheringtonTomas
Having had one or two old cars, I can say this: I wouldn't touch a car that's had welding with a bargepole. I wouldn't touch it with a *disinfected* bargepole. I wouldn't touch it with *your* bargepole.

However, that's a bit two-faced - because a car I've had did need welding, and it was OK. That was only a one-year fix, though. It was recycled after that year.
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New Fri 2 Jul 10 23:08 
 Is welding acceptable - bathtub tom
I've always maintained that welding will destroy paint protection and although you can re-paint what you can see, in most cases you can't access the other side.

I've had it done before, I'll probably have it done again, but I'll be reluctant to keep a car that's been welded.
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New Fri 2 Jul 10 23:41 
 Is welding acceptable - Brentus
When i had a 52 passat. During a big repair it required substantial welding. This is ok provided its done correctly, and protected on the finish.
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New Fri 2 Jul 10 23:49 
 Is welding acceptable - Bellboy
austin martin you say you looked at a 98 fiesta,thats 12 years old minimum and its ford so its the law it will be rusty
lift up your mattress and get some more dosh out before the mice get it and look at something newer before ebeneezer comes for you
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New Sat 3 Jul 10 00:11 
 Is welding acceptable - Lygonos
A 10-12yr old car will fold like a fag packet if it crashes into an NCAP 5* heap such as a Megane.

Bellboy speaks the truth.
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New Sat 3 Jul 10 03:07 
 Is welding acceptable - Armel Coussine
there's a Citroen Ami 8 parked in a short driveway a few doors from where I am staying. I really fancy it. I'm a bit old forit now, but thos are good litte motors - light, low-powered and rapid when driven correctly. Not much fun on busy fast motorways, but who needs those?

Perfect for French A roads. Only about 40 mpg but yu can't have everything.

Honestly some people, want to sell you heavy metal on the pretext it will protect you when you cause a crash, load of old codswallop...


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New Sat 3 Jul 10 03:25 
 Is welding acceptable - Armel Coussine
I forgot to add: a good welder would be a fundamental requirement.

A friend, an artist, who had a succession of Amis had one whose flor rusted through all along the side members, so that it hung like a springy hammock from the front and rear.

He repaired it better than new with wooden side members and a thorough darning job all over with marine plywood and glass fibre reinforced resin. The car felt more rigid and was quieter too.

Don't suppose it would pass the MoT test these days. Pity. Everyone's so spoilt.

'Nay lad. It's a Zeppelin or nowt.'

Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Sat 3 Jul 10 at 03:27
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New Sat 3 Jul 10 22:19 
 Is welding acceptable - Boxsterboy
>> there's a Citroen Ami 8 parked in a short driveway a few doors from where
>> I am staying. >>

It's not beige in Mortimer Road, is it?

Once the tin worm has got it's teeth into a car, it will always be an uphill battle unless the car is particularly well cared for (i.e. garaged and never driven on salted roads). Fiestas, Kas and Pumas are all rot-boxes and should be avoided.
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New Sat 3 Jul 10 23:39 
 Is welding acceptable - Armel Coussine
>> not beige in Mortimer Road, is it?

Heh heh Bb, that's the one. There used to be one of those Hindustan taxis there too, but now there's a Golf. I know of course that you pass near here often. Didn't know you came past here though...

You really don't need to tell me about Citroen tin worm - see my second post above... and my first car was a 14-year-old Light 15.

As I said, I'm too old for that now.Haven't got the energy. But that Ami is a great little car in the right hands when going properly, no kidding. And budget all the way.

Don't forget I still live within 10 min walk of the WmIV. 6.30ish is a time that suits me.
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New Sun 4 Jul 10 21:27 
 Is welding acceptable - Boxsterboy
>> >> not beige in Mortimer Road, is it?
>>
>> Heh heh Bb, that's the one.
>> Don't forget I still live within 10 min walk of the WmIV. 6.30ish is a
>> time that suits me.
>>

And I had a 6.30 appointment in the little mews place immediately behind the Wm IV the other day! Next time, maybe.
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New Sun 4 Jul 10 22:16 
 Is welding acceptable - Armel Coussine
The tyre place on Chamberlayne Rd?

Or have you scraped the Boxster down a wall?

That bodyshop is an offshoot of a different tyre place, not far away in Harrow Rd on the London side of that junction with Ladbroke Grove. Used to go there for many years. But don't any more, not that I have anything against them.
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New Sun 4 Jul 10 09:14 
 Is welding acceptable - hawkeye
>> there's a Citroen Ami 8 parked in a short driveway a few doors from where
>> I am staying. I really fancy it.

I ran an Ami 8 for work in the '80s. A useful little car despite the lack of power. On the motorway I could keep my foot planted on the mats and the speed would just keep building until I was keeping pace with the Sierras and Cavaliers of the day.

That was the car I was in when a Cortina lost a half-shaft including brake drum and wheel in front of me. Heart stopped while the assembly bounced randomly around in front of me, finally vaulting over the Ami's roof.

Get the Ami while you can AC. I bet you'll be surprised how noisy it is and how well it deals with speed bumps.
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New Sun 4 Jul 10 10:10 
 Is welding acceptable - Iffy
...there's a Citroen Ami 8...

I had a Renault 4 for a while in the early 1980s.

Not as quirky as an Ami, but very comfortable, useful, and handy in everyday use, if not exactly fun.

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New Sun 4 Jul 10 13:30 
 Is welding acceptable - Armel Coussine
>> you'll be surprised how noisy it is and how well it deals with speed bumps.

Two-cylinder Citroens hold few surprises for me. They are noisy, but it's quite a pleasant noise a lot of the time.

Not sure you are right about speed bumps though. Ami suspension was better than 2CV or even Dyane, but those cars were much given to banging the front cross-member on the road, making two gouges with the heads of the engine bearer bolts. They would only be comfortable over speed bumps if the right technique was used for the bump in question. No possibility of just rushing over the thing at undiminished speed. That's why we all want Porsche Cayennes really.
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New Sat 3 Jul 10 09:09 
 Is welding acceptable - Victorbox
I can't believe in this day and age any 10 year old car needs welding unless it was very shoddily made in the first place. That said, plenty of Ka's and some Fiesta's need welding before they are 10 year old.

I went looking for a similar aged car for my daughter last year and rust didn't feature on any car we looked at.
Last edited by: Victorbox on Sat 3 Jul 10 at 09:09
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New Sun 4 Jul 10 01:50 
 Is welding acceptable - RattleandSmoke
I will be interested to see if my dads R reg Fiesta fails on welding this year. The sills are still solid but when I lifted up the carpets there is a lot of rust patches on the floor. The wheel arch is rusting too but I don't think it is an MOT issue yet.

My clio's friends old Ka was so rusty when it was 8 years old I snapped the cross member in half with my hand! The entire car just fell apart. It was welded up and then put back on the road by the new owner but it looks like the rust has finally killed it.

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New Sun 4 Jul 10 10:05 
 Is welding acceptable - martin aston
Thanks for the advice, mostly confirming my thoughts. I am not sure about Lygonos comment about a 10-12 car folding. Maybe a rusty one will (hence my original query) but a rust free one surely will acquit itself OK - albeit only to 3 stars maybe rather than the 5 of a new model. Having said that no amount of stars will save you if you hit a juggernaut at speed. As for spending more on a better car, its my son's money not mine. So whether I should indulge him by giving him money for a safer car is a different dilemma altogether and my approach to date is that if he wants a car he needs to pay for it but I will help him get the best car he can for what he can afford.
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New Sun 4 Jul 10 16:17 
 Is welding acceptable - RattleandSmoke
In some ways the safest cars are those with knifes pointing out of the steering wheel. A 2000 Focus/Astra will be fine providing its rust free and not been in accident etc.

I got rid of my second Fiesta, the purple one because I never felt save in because of all the welding it had.
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New Sun 4 Jul 10 16:20 
 Is welding acceptable - Armel Coussine
The important kind of safety is the primary sort: the car should behave predictably under braking on all surfaces and go where it is pointed by a reasonably prudent driver. If it has those qualities you won't need all the explosive balloons and elaborate suspender belts and armoured radiation-proof capsules and all that carp.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Sun 4 Jul 10 at 16:22
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New Sun 4 Jul 10 16:27 
 Is welding acceptable - RattleandSmoke
Thats the one thing I like about the Panda, so much glass everywhere and massive mirrors so I can see everything around me. In many modern cars such as the Clio III there far too many blind spots because of the thick pillers.

The feature my car lacks in terms of safety is electronic stability control but then if I could whip a Corsa B round country lanes without getting into trouble I will have no problem with the Panda.
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New Sun 4 Jul 10 22:23 
 Is welding acceptable - swiss tony
>> The important kind of safety is the primary sort: the car should behave predictably under
>> braking on all surfaces and go where it is pointed by a reasonably prudent driver.
>> If it has those qualities you won't need all the explosive balloons and elaborate suspender
>> belts and armoured radiation-proof capsules and all that carp.
>>

I'm a firm believer the more of that carp is fitted, then the more likely that car will be involved in an accident - its the feeling of invincibility all the 'safety' items give out....
We are pretty much told that traction control, ABS, ESP make the car uncrashable, so untrue you are still attached to the road by 4 very small patches of rubber, and the laws of physics still apply....
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New Sun 4 Jul 10 22:26 
 Is welding acceptable - henry k
I hope so.
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