Daughter recently bought a 3-year-old Toyota Verso. She was complaining the handbrake had to be pulled a long way. Turns out the rear brakes are discs with the handbrake operating on drums.
The handbrake shoes have to be adjusted manually, through a hole in the drum!
I suppose, theoretically, they should rarely, if ever, need adjusting. These obviously do.
Reckon it must be the first time I've seen manual brake adjustments on any car less than fifty years old.
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Not as unusual as you might think; my VW van has a similar set-up; IIRC so did my old BMW 525, 1994 model.
Last edited by: Harleyman on Sat 21 Feb 15 at 20:46
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The hole in the drum is also there to back the brakes back off should you ever need to change the shoes. How else (apart from smashing the drums with a hammer) are you going to get them off?
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The KIA Ceed and Hyundai i30 have the same handbrake system. I adjusted my Ceeds handbrake once in four years.
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>> The hole in the drum is also there to back the brakes back off should
>> you ever need to change the shoes. How else (apart from smashing the drums with
>> a hammer) are you going to get them off?
I've had several cars with self-adjusting rear drum brakes. Never had to smash the drums off.
Then again, I've never owned a Vauxhall.................................................:>)
Last edited by: bathtub tom on Sat 21 Feb 15 at 23:09
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>> Daughter recently bought a 3-year-old Toyota Verso. She was complaining the handbrake had to be
>> pulled a long way. Turns out the rear brakes are discs with the handbrake operating
>> on drums.
>>
>> The handbrake shoes have to be adjusted manually, through a hole in the drum!
>>
>> I suppose, theoretically, they should rarely, if ever, need adjusting. These obviously do.
>>
>> Reckon it must be the first time I've seen manual brake adjustments on any car
>> less than fifty years old.
err is there not an adjuster on the single cable at the handbrake lever?
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>> err is there not an adjuster on the single cable at the handbrake lever?
>>
Yes there is, but you are adjusting the brake shoes not the cable.
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but you don't need to adjust the brake shoes, if you have excess travel you adjust the cable. The cable has stretched, not the brake shoes worn out
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I disagree, and so does the KIA workshop manual which I had downloaded but have binned as it was two cars ago.
The procedure is to adjust the shoes and then the cable to give the correct number of clicks. My cable did not require adjustment.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sat 21 Feb 15 at 22:16
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Did your manual say "if you have excess handbrake travel ignore the adjuster on the handbook cable and adjust the brake shoes"
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>> Did your manual say "if you have excess handbrake travel ignore the adjuster on the
>> handbook cable and adjust the brake shoes"
>>
Which bit of the procedure do you not understand.
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>> Which bit of the procedure do you not understand.
Don't try and be clever ON, you really don't have the skills and you always end up looking like a dick.
Tell me how many brake shoes wear sufficiently after only three years? Your manual actually said "CHECK the shoes and then adjust the cable" you probably ended up adjusting the wrong end.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 21 Feb 15 at 22:52
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>> Don't try and be clever ON, you really don't have the skills and you always
>> end up looking like a dick.
Typical Zero, get it wrong, and try to bluster your way out of it by attacking the messenger.
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>> Typical Zero, get it wrong, and try to bluster your way out of it by
>> attacking the messenger.
Typical ON, getting his personal vitriol in first and then trying to pretend to be innocent to the response. Mind you I have to say "I threw the manual away" is a fantastic excuse.
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>> Typical ON, getting his personal vitriol in first and then trying to pretend to be
>> innocent to the response. Mind you I have to say "I threw the manual away"
>> is a fantastic excuse.
>>
If you think that being told that you don't understand a procedure is vitriol you have led a very sheltered life. Read the post. The manual was downloaded and has been deleted. We don't all drive clapped out cars with stretched handbrake cables. You need one of these, when your car is in your garage you can leave the handbrake off and your cables will not stretch.
www.gizoo.co.uk/Products/ParkingMat.htm
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>> www.gizoo.co.uk/Products/ParkingMat.htm
Well at least you can remember how to google, you are not quite that gaga yet.
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>> Well at least you can remember how to google, you are not quite that gaga
>> yet.
>>
I can even purchase online, I have one in my garage.
Before you say I am a crap Parker, it was handy for the ix35 but I can walk around the Yaris in the garage and use the workbench without resting my bum on the bonnet.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 22 Feb 15 at 09:48
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>>
>> Typical Zero, get it wrong, and try to bluster your way out of it by
>> attacking the messenger.
>>
I don't know the car, but I suspect Zero is right.
It's obvious that the shoe adjustment is the primary one, and has to be correct before you adjust the cable.
As the handbrake was presumably correctly adjusted within living memory, then the shoes are not going to have worn, it must be the cable, or perhaps the linkage at the handbrake or drums, that needs adjusting.
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Unless the cable is at max adjustment already, if it's stretched perhaps not best to keep adjusting it. Normally it's not too bad on the back drums, just a turnbuckle to adjust.
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but you don't need to adjust the brake shoes, if you have excess travel you adjust the cable. The cable has stretched, not the brake shoes worn out
The Haynes book (if there is one...) will say you need to adjust both, every time! But I'm quite sure the OP knows how to tell which bit is slack.
As a rule, handbrake cables don't stretch after the initial bedding in so it either indicates poor design, something dying, or (and my 2p is on this) the dealers highly trained (yeah right) workshop monkeys never doing the job properly in the first place.
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Yep. My handbrake lever went from 4 to 9 clicks in short order and stayed there through 3 dealer services. Changed dealer, and it's back to 4.
Amazingly, they rang me to ask where the wheelnut key was, as they wanted to remove the wheels to clean and check the brakes. When I got it back I could see they had only had one front wheel off, seen the new discs and pads, and moved on to the back which had both been off. Happy to use them again.
I did actually request that the handbrake be sorted, but I got the impression they would have done it anyway.
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>> but you don't need to adjust the brake shoes, if you have excess travel you
>> adjust the cable. The cable has stretched, not the brake shoes worn out
Spent some considerable time trying to remove the centre console to give access to a cable adjustment I thought may be near the handbrake. Had to give up through lack of time. I'd had a good crawl around underneath and couldn't find any other place to remove slack from the cables.
I googled it without success, then son-in-law put question on Toyota forum that produced the answer. Eventually found this image: i180.photobucket.com/albums/x133/anchorman_02/c126452e01.png which I assume is something like it.
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Adjusted teh handrake at the front once on our Yaris. Then at the wheels 6 years later - once in 9 years of ownership.
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Seem to remember the 2CV had a very powerful handbrake that worked on the front drums.
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I recall SWMBO's Skoda Estelle had the handbrake cable adjuster accessible from inside the car, a small plastic flap between the front seats, nice and easy to adjust without crawling about underneath the car.
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>> I recall SWMBO's Skoda Estelle had the handbrake cable adjuster accessible from inside the car, a small plastic flap between the front seats, nice and easy to adjust without crawling about underneath the car.
A great car. I loved all five of mine.
One was a sky blue with black vinyl roof 130 saloon, a willing enough beast. I got scared in it once. After a funeral in Cheshire I was too drunk to drive legally, and herself was designated pilot, hadn't touched a drop poor darling. We got out on the M6 and started heading back to civilisation. There are some downhill stretches on that road, and glancing blearily at the instruments I noted that that chubby blue car was doing upwards of 90.
Courteously, I murmured some sort of reference to our speed. But the two, er, negroes actually, in the back seat weighed in in her defence. 'Leave her alone man!' they cried angrily.
OK for some... they were further from the crash than I was and would be cushioned by the seatbacks and our bodies. Have to say that herself never even looked like getting out of shape despite the dodgy old Skoda and wettish conditions. Comfortable suspension with no real vices. And that sky-blue one was a faithful example. They have personalities you know, like animals.
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>> Seem to remember the 2CV had a very powerful handbrake that worked on the front
>> drums.
>>
Not sure about the 2CV but it's compatriot the Renault 4 had that system up until the GTL was introduced.
Caught quite a few drivers out when it came to changing a front tyre as your natural instinct is to assume that the handbrake always works on the rear.
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Not that it would concern anyone here of course, but attempting a handbrake turn with such a set up would at least prove interesting I suppose.
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Saw a Saab (I think) fail its MOT on the handbrake, until the tester's assistant pointed out the handbrake operated the fronts.
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>> Saw a Saab (I think) fail its MOT on the handbrake, until the tester's assistant pointed out the handbrake operated the fronts.
You mean Cletus the slack-jawed yokel on one of those brake testing machines with abrasive rollers to wear flats on your cheapo rubber?? Tell me about it, tsk...
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>> >> Seem to remember the 2CV had a very powerful handbrake that worked on the
>> front
>> >> drums.
>> >>
>>
>> Not sure about the 2CV but it's compatriot the Renault 4 had that system up
>> until the GTL was introduced.
>>
There was a useful trick for getting grip on soft ground or ice which was to partially engage the handbrake. This stopped the tendency for one wheel to spin, and gave an effect a little bit like a limited slip differential.
Also useful on a conventional RWD car with RW handbrake.
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>> Seem to remember the 2CV had a very powerful handbrake that worked on the front
>> drums.
Handbrakes that worked on front wheels (discs) were standard fare on Citroens with hydropneumatic suspension/power brakes from the DS through to the Xantia. Like any handbrake set up rust could cause pads to stick on. Unlike othr set ups they didn't leave your wheel locked, rather they'd let go with a loud bang as soon as you let the clutch in.
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ON is of course correct, with systems such as those being discussed where the handbrake drums are within the disk, the correct way is to always take up the adjusters within the handbrake drums first and only then move on to the cable free play.
Despite wear to the shoes and drum surfaces being unlikely with this system it can happen with a dragging shoe/s and also you can never assume they were set up correctly in the first place.
The extra problem with the handbrake drums within discs system is because these drums are often much smaller than a conventional drum giving less friction area meaning anything less than perfect operation risks an MOT fail. This is the system on my E39 BMW and there are always complaints about getting an MOT pass on the BMW forums. No problem if adjusted by the book.
Adjusting the cable does not have the same effect as getting the shoes in the correct initial place because if the internal mechanism is asked to work beyond its design limits the pivots can end up trying to work with poor mechanical advantage, or even binding up before there is sufficient effort on the drums.
The same is often true of auto adjust rear drums where the adjusters have seized and folks just keep taking the cable up to offset this.
For slightly different reasons it is important, where stated in the manual, to do the pad/wheel end setup/adjustment before the cable on systems where the handbrake mechanism is integral with the disc caliper and operates on the normal pads. This is due to the possibility that taking up slack on the cable first can prevent the caliper lever fully returning to its stop thereby preventing the auto adjustment functioning which is crucial to getting a good handbrake on a disc only system.
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Manual brake adjustment - Harleyman
