Motoring Discussion > 25k Miles in Another Berlingo Miscellaneous
Thread Author: Bromptonaut Replies: 43

 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - Bromptonaut
The second Berlingo, aka Fleur, hit 25k miles during trip to Plymouth over weekend so a report seemed in order.

It’s a 1.6 Hdi 115 in XTR trim. Bought new in September 2013, cash purchase from the franchise in Milton Keynes. Its arrival allowed the other one to replace my 2000/X Xantia 110Hdi estate which had cumulative issues meaning repairs made no sense. We’d been contemplating a replacement for a while but need to change quickly meant we had to choose from dealer stock. Could get more or less model we wanted (a glass roof version would have been ideal) but had choice of grey or grey.

I’d signed up for redundancy/early retirement a few weeks before and a caravan was on the agenda. We went for the 115 engine rather than the 90 to have a bit more ‘poke’ when towing. Both are DI turbo diesels but the 115 has different mapping and possibly differing turbo/intercooler set. Like all modern diesels there’s a DPF.

Overall picture is of a comfortable, reliable economical and reasonably fast large estate car – it’s considerably larger in all dimensions than mine.


Performance – Much quicker than the old one (obviously). Happy all day at UK or continental limit and with more than enough acceleration for A road overtakes or mixing it with repmobiles in lane 3. All the low down torque you’d expect of a diesel but pulls above 3k rpm too, not that you need to. You can though run out of the bottom of the torque band. Lacks the warning of feeling each detonation you get in an IDI prompting driver to drop to second or first on mountain roads. Caught me flat footed a couple of times on Pyrenean passes.

Still moves adequately well with our 1067kg Xplore 304 caravan on tow. As the combined weight is under 3.5 tonnes the outfit can legally do 110/130 on a French motorway – not sensible though.

Can get 50+mpg on a run without trying too hard. Obviously less round town, say mid forties overall. With the van on it’s down in twenties but I gather that’s normal.


Equipment and Comfort– XTR trim gives 16inch alloys and different springs so it’s slightly higher than other models. Rides well but not a magic carpet like the Xantia. Longitudinal roof bars are standard too. Together they put overall height a tad over 1.8m – too tall for some car parks and needs to go with vans and coaches on Chunnel.

Upholstery is an unexceptional black fabric which seems to be wearing OK. The three separate rear seats can be folded or lifted out completely in any permutation.

Lacks the overhead storage and permanently live 12v supplies of the older model which is a bit of a swizz. But as we’ve got mains in the caravan it’s not the problem it might have been on tent hols. Plenty other storage around the cabin including a second glove box over the speedo and a massive (removable) centre console cubby. The main glove box conceals an auxiliary input to connect MP3 etc to the excellent 6 speaker CD/radio etc combo. I’ve an idea it has a pen drive slot too but that’s not a way we store music.

Manual air con was standard and does all that’s needed.

In Use – It’s been good. Now our daughter is in Plymouth and son still at Uni in Liverpool it gets more than enough long runs. In fact we divvy those up with Enrico so as not to hit the warranty’s 60k limit sooner than 3 yrs. Went down to the Pyrenees returning via Mimizan last summer with no issues. Even four up and towing performance was OK but we need to be careful about max weight with ‘van and a large payload in car.

Luggage space is phenomenal. Remove the offside rear seat and it will take two mountain bikes upright and stowed fore/aft in the ‘English fashion’ while still having four passenger seats. Bikes just need their bars turning 90 degrees. Oddity is they won’t go in as well on passenger side – pedals end up in wrong place.

For such a large beast it’s incredibly manoeuvrable, the steering lock/turning circle and all round visibility with massive mirrors are key. It’s pretty wide though, all but seven feet over the mirrors, and needs care in small UK parking bays.

No rattles or squeaks. Only niggles are the indicators which do a four flash lane change thing if you breathe on the switch and the radio’s stored station set up. Like previous Cits it has three ‘banks’ of 5 or 6 FM presets and 6 on AM (incl LW). On the old ones you could set a different station on each FM ‘bank’ so that by toggling he band switch would quickly cycle thru R5live, R4, R2 and Classic FM – I rarely listen to anything else. On his one if I set R4 on bank one banks two and three default to it as well. I could sort of see point if you still needed to tune to different transmitters, . indeed I used to have Sutton Coldfield and Holme Moss frx in separate banks on the old BX, but with RDS what’s the point?


Servicing and Reliability – Nothing to report. It’s been serviced twice at Perrys in MK who report brake pads 50% worn at 24k. Going to need tyres soon, say around 30k, but a heavy FWD car that tows always was.

The DPF gets more than enough long runs to ensure it regenerates and I’ve been blissfully unaware of it doing so.

Expect to run it into ground. Only caveat to that would be if we wanted a bigger caravan and/or more ‘full on’ tow car.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 3 Mar 15 at 13:28
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - Boxsterboy
>> Longitudinal roof
>> bars are standard too. Together they put overall height a tad over 1.8m – too
>> tall for some car parks and needs to go with vans and coaches on Chunnel.
>>

I wouldn't be so sure about that. We once had upside-down skis on the roof bars of our C8 and I measured the height to be 1.91m. The ski binding brakes just scraped the height restricter at the tunnel, but on the double-decker carriage there was about 10mm spare.

There's no price penalty to pay for going in the high roof carriage, but at peak times you sometimes have to wait longer in our experience.
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - Bromptonaut
>> I wouldn't be so sure about that. We once had upside-down skis on the roof
>> bars of our C8 and I measured the height to be 1.91m. The ski binding
>> brakes just scraped the height restricter at the tunnel, but on the double-decker carriage

The booking page asks if over 1.8m, which according to the handbook it is by about 30mm. Consequently we book as a high vehicle, as you say there's no cost penalty.

The 'official' height is probably unladen and on new tyres etc. The first time we took it through we forgot it was bigger than Enrico and went through and onto double deck shuttle OK, only the radio aerial 'pinged' the height limit but there was mm clearance on bars.

Which crossing you go on works both ways. In December we were selected 08:25 (ish) at check in but following the high vehicles route we ended up as last one aboard on the 08:10.
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - Old Navy

>> The DPF gets more than enough long runs to ensure it regenerates and I’ve been
>> blissfully unaware of it doing so.
>>

A good write up Bromp, thanks.

My understanding of DPF regeneration is that it occurs when the ECU detects a pressure differential across the DPF, as in getting full. If you do regular runs which get the DPF good and hot it stays clean enough to not trigger a regeneration. This may be why you have not been aware of a regen.
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - WillDeBeest
Mine too, ON. Regeneration is an emergency measure to do what normal driving has failed to achieve.
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - RichardW
Not really.... There is passive regen - but you only get this on a long sustained m-way run when it gets really hot. In normal use it will require (and will do) active regn. On the PSA system this occurs about every 300 miles in mixed use - temp in the DPF is spiked by increasing load (HRW and glowplugs come on), bypassing the intercooler, and doing something with the EGR valve. We've got 2 x 1.6 HDis (the forerunner of the engine Bromp's got, as his will be the later 8V version - which should be less prone to turbo troubles!) - and the only hint that active re-gen is occurring is that the heated rear window comes on of its own accord. On my 95k mile 307 there is a slight roughness / stutter at low rev pick up if it is regenning, but I doubt most drivers would notice it.

If it gets really bad, then you can get a forced regen done - this is done stationary and is not for the feint hearted - ECU holds it at 4k rpm for something like 15 mins, and melts the tarmac if you are not careful!
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - Old Navy
>> Not really.... There is passive regen - but you only get this on a long
>> sustained m-way run when it gets really hot.

It depends on what "normal use" is. My car will passive regen almost continiously, that is the type of driving that happens several times a week for me, it only takes 20 minutes to passively clean a DPF, so the light has never come on. I believe the light is triggered by the differential pressure across the DPF and a 40+mph stint of 20 minutes + additional fuel injection on the exhaust stroke of the engine does an active regen, I have not achieved the level of soot in the filter to trigger it.

If a car requires an active regen on a regular basis it is not suitable for its type of use and a petrol car may be a better choice of car.

I have no idea how French cars work.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 5 Mar 15 at 13:06
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - Bromptonaut
Interesting exchange on DPFs and how they work in different engines/applications.

This car clearly has one - big thing in front of engine with a heater plug, lots of insulation and warnings that it gets very hot. It must be doing its job as I never see even a bit of haze in following headlamps. Equally I'm not aware of it affecting the car in any way at all in day to day use.
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - Old Navy
It is probably like my car, if the car is driven so that the DPF gets hot on a regular basis and keeps itself clean an active regen will not be required.

I agree with WDBs post above.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 5 Mar 15 at 13:52
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - RichardW
'Active' regen is normal for a PSA filter: www.psa-peugeot-citroen.com/en/featured-content/diesel-technology/DPF-diesel-particulate-filter There's no warning it's doing it. Only if the filter gets loaded to a certain level does the message come up telling you it needs regen.

Can't remeber what your is ON? Kia or Hyundai I think? Couldn't find a similar description, but most things seemed to point to some sort of automatic regen that the user knows nothing about. At least it doesn't fill the sump up with diesel like the Mazda one did....!
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - Old Navy
Hyundai, now a Toyota Yaris, there was a problem with diesel dilution of the engine oil with the early Yaris diesels and Toyota replaced affected engines. The problem has been fixed with modified turbo bearing seals, vacuum pump, pistons, and their rings. Also the ECU software as some cars went into an almost continious regen which contaminated the engine oil. My car is now on 5K miles and the oil level has not changed. The engine has an oil quality (diesel contamination) sensor in the sump which would light a warning light if there was a problem.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 5 Mar 15 at 15:26
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - Old Navy
Missed the edit.

I knew of this problem before I bought my car, the TSB about the fix, fit a new short engine, turbo, and vacuum pump. The modified parts were fitted at build long before my car was built.

Toyota have a a recall checker on their website.
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - Bromptonaut
Rear tyres replaced today at c27k. Fronts will do another few thousand but I'll change them before the proposed Auvergene/Lande trip in July.

My fault but I'd not checked the rears as well as I should. Noticed last night, after arriving at caravan site in Staffs Moors that outer edge of n/s rear was down to very little tread indeed. The o/s was a little better but down to the TWI marks.

Quick trip to Kwik Fit in Newcastle under Lyme got them sorted. Not cheap though at £128 each for OEM equivalent Michelin Premacys. Might get the fronts a bit cheaper at home as I'll have time to shop around. Same ball park though.
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - sooty123

>> Quick trip to Kwik Fit in Newcastle under Lyme got them sorted. Not cheap though
>> at £128 each for OEM equivalent Michelin Premacys.

Ouch, talk about a distress purchase being expensive. My Dunlops for 18s were that with a bit of research. What size are the Berlingos?
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - Bromptonaut
>> Ouch, talk about a distress purchase being expensive. My Dunlops for 18s were that with
>> a bit of research. What size are the Berlingos?
>>

They're 16inch with a V speed rating. Wrote down size/aspect ratio this morning but lost note. I think it's 215/55 but it's pi*&ing down and I'm not going out to re-check :-P

Nothing I'd even consider fitting was much under £110 and the OEM Miches are quiet running and grip well. The much smaller tyres I use on the older 'lingo - more like a 70 aspect ratio on a 15 rim - are pushing £100 for Mich but my home supplier usually has a BF Goodrich for £75 that is pretty good.

Kwik Fit's pricing is quite transparent. There's a web price for pre-booked fitting and a different 'rack' rate for turn up and want it done now punters. I was of course in the latter group.
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - sooty123
>
>>
>> They're 16inch with a V speed rating. Wrote down size/aspect ratio this morning but lost
>> note. I think it's 215/55 but it's pi*&ing down and I'm not going out to
>> re-check :-P
>>
>> Nothing I'd even consider fitting was much under £110 and the OEM Miches are quiet
>> running and grip well.

Must be an unusual size, I would have thought they would be cheaper being a 'basic' car. Avons were pretty cheap and good reviews on mine, mind you if you want Michelien they are heads and shoulders more than anything else.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Sat 2 May 15 at 20:10
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - Runfer D'Hills
27,000 doesn't seem like a lot for rear tyres on a FWD car? Do caravans cause excessive tyre wear on the towing car?
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - Bromptonaut
>> 27,000 doesn't seem like a lot for rear tyres on a FWD car? Do caravans
>> cause excessive tyre wear on the towing car?

Rear wear on FWD is to say least variable.

The current 'lingo Multispace is based on a commercial vehicle built around the size of a small euro pallet. Seems to wear all four tyres at about same rate. Manager at KF in Newcastle u L said as much and also highlighted a tendency of 08 and post models to wear outer edge of treads first. Adding 65kg of caravan noseweight and the bounce of it's basic suspension clearly won't add to rear tyre life but I doubt it's significant overall.

My 05 model is a bit more front heavy but much less so than say a BX where rear tyres failed structurally with bubbles in wall and running tread b4 getting anywhere near TWI limits.
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - Londoner
Excellent write up!

I was thinking of doing one for my own current motor, but I can see that I'll need to do some practising before I can reach the required standard! :-)
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - Bromptonaut
Update:

Now well on way to 50k and passed first MoT this morning. Forgot to check bulbs before so got initial fail for number plate light out. Perrys in MK only charged cost of bulb. Rear tyres replaced last week. Like previous pair they were worn on outer edges, slightly worse on one side than other. Roundabouts apparently exacerbate such a wear pattern; Mrs B's commute to Oxford via A43/M40/A34 won't help!!

Nothing much else to report really. It continues to do what the tin said. Off to France next week via Plym>Roscoff. Fortnight in Brittany/Poitou Charentes (or maybe Pays de Loire). Will pass 50k while there.

Only problem so far is that back lights behind heater controls have failed. Hopefully easy DIY as it was on previous 'lingo.
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - Boxsterboy
I remember the heater lights on my BXs used to fail regularly - and were an easy DIY fix. Plus ca change ...
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - Robin O'Reliant
I've been thinking of a similar type of vehicle Brompt, mainly for the load space. Probably a Doblo in my case. How "Wobbly" are they, if you catch my drift? I'm mostly on twisty NSL single carriageways with plenty of ups and downs and I wonder about the high centre of gravity compared to a standard car.
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - Bromptonaut
Never driven a Doblo so no direct comparison.

The post 08 'lingo is not as sure footed as a Xantia estate but much more stable than a BX estate with 100kg in a roof box.

HTH :-P
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - Bromptonaut
Now just short of 70k and we've had first failure of a non 'wear and tear' part when the door mirror control joystick snapped. Replaced yesterday at cost c£50 for part and same again to fit. As £50 said less than half an hour I waited while they did job

Well £50 to fit was what was quoted. When presented with bill they'd doubled it - £85 + VAT. Challenged them and pointed out £85 was hourly rate and I'd not even been on the premises that long. Immediately reduced back to quoted figure.
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - Bromptonaut
Will hit 90k in next couple of days; last weeks trip to Harris added about 1500.

Nothing much to add really. Had a brake problem - stuck caliper, pad down to backing and disc damaged - reported elsewhere on this forum a month or so ago but no other issues. Grounded it for a few hours to sort that but (wood touched) it's 90% of way to being second Citroen car I've owned that's done 100k miles without failing in service. Worried slightly that clutch was getting juddery. It could though cope perfectly with hill starts on drive of cottage we were in on Harris that caused daughter's Octavia some grief. Berlingo's only issue was lack of traction on Cattle Grid at top of drive - had to drop back and take a run at it.

Everything inside still works. Eventually got the H&V control backlights mentioned upthread replaced.

Recently tucked a Bluetooth receiver in glovebox plugged into aux input of stereo allowing music to be streamed from phone clipped to windscreen.

Next long trip is to Carcasonne area with caravan in July/August.
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - Auntie Lockbrakes
You must be game, Bromp! Not sure I’d fancy schlepping around 1000km across France hauling a caravan! Presumably you take 2-3 days each way?

Used to live 50km south of Carcassonne! Have a glass of blanquette in the square in Limoux for me!
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - Bromptonaut
Specific intention is to visit Mrs B's brother who has a place in Esperaza. Intend to be there or thereabouts for Stage 15 of Tour de France from Limoux to Fois.

As you say it needs a couple of days each way. Pattern in last few trips has been a night at C&MC Club site at Hawkinge and then ferry at around 08:00. LAst time we were down that way southbound stops were Chartres and Brive la Gaillarde.

Might repeat that or try a different strategy where we start from home, cross 11:00 or midday and take first stop somewhere near Challons s Marne and second at 'tbc' most of way there to keep arrival reasonably early.

It's a long drag with or without a caravan but we did similar for years with a tent and (initially) young children so it's pretty well practiced.
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - Duncan
>> Specific intention is to visit Mrs B's brother who has a place in Esperaza. Intend
>> to be there or thereabouts for Stage 15 of Tour de France from Limoux to
>> Fois.


Is that one of the bits over the pave'? (No that's not right. How do you an accent? [Is it grave, or acute?])
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - Bromptonaut
>> Is that one of the bits over the pave'? (No that's not right. How do
>> you an accent? [Is it grave, or acute?])

Don't think so. Pave (cobbles) are a feature of stages, usually early, in NE France. This one is described as mountains.

No idea about accent still less how to render it on a UK keyboard.
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - Duncan
www.thoughtco.com/how-to-type-french-accents-1372770

pavé
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - tyrednemotional
I use the keyboard shortcuts quite a lot of the time, especially for German characters.

If you can't remember the shortcut, however, one of the easiest ways of using foreign letters (I nearly put French l......) is simply to google the word in another window, and cut and paste the appropriate part of the resultant text.
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - Haywain
It's easy on a Mac - you just press the key down for a tad longer than normal and a selection of letters with accents pops up; you just select the one that you want. Not sure if it'll work on here - let's try it ..... Miloš Karadagli?
Last edited by: Haywain on Sun 9 Jun 19 at 15:45
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - Haywain
Mmm - well, it worked OK in preview but, when posted, the š was OK, but the final c (with a sort of acute accent) turned into a question mark. Oh, well.
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - Auntie Lockbrakes
I did Limoux back to Calais a couple of times in 1 go about 15 years ago - not towing anything though! Leave after lunch, skirt Toulouse before the evening rush starts, and hit Paris around 10pm when it’s also off-peak. Probably more traffic these days though...
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - Bromptonaut
Spoke too soon!!

Mrs B rang me while out and about yesterday to say there's a warning light on the dash. It's accompanied by a message 'P filter fluid low'. Quick bit of reading suggests this is a need of maintenance rather than something that's failed; seems it needs a top up of the EOLYS fluid that acts as a catalyst for the particulate filter. Apparently it adds a few ml of the stuff to the diesel tank every time it's refilled. Usually lasts 80-90k depending on number of refuels. We very rarely do a 'splash and dash' unless we're either topping up for a long journey or (eg last Sunday) need a few litres at M/way services to get us home.

Could be a bit costly (c£200 fitted) but in reality it's fractions of a penny per mile.

 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - smokie
"P filter fluid" = pee maybe? That'll be like Adblue then? :-)
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - Bromptonaut
PDF fluid tank re-filled yesterday. There was a reported 87ml left and it was topped up to approx 3 litres. Cost just under £200 at local French car specialist.

All warning lights off, normal service resumed.
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - Bromptonaut
In last week or so it's hit 100,000 miles. Nothing exceptional to report at all. Still 100% dispatch reliability. I think the two Berlingos are the only cars I've taken to 100k without ending up needing a flatbed recovery at some point.

Tyres came up again around Christmas, all four this time. ATS did me a good price for BF Goodrich .

We'd hoped to be off to the Western Isles for a fortnight at the end of this month but Covid has stuffed that. Landlord, for whom we've been a repeat customer over years from 2003, cancelled late in March.

Neither has the caravan been out this year. A planned trip to CAMC site at Denham was stopped because of one of the named storms. Late March trip to Southport CAMC was cancelled by the club but lockdown would have stopped it anyway. Don't see France being open for business in the summer either.

Need to watch the prevalence of short trips in current emergency. I wonder if 'keeping the DPF clean and healthy' counts as good cause for being out of the house up to M6/J1 and back via the A5......
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - Avant
Just include a run like that in a shopping trip. You're very unlikely to be challenged, but if you were you could say that you (or Mrs B) need a particular ingredient for cookinf that you couldn't get at the first shop.
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - Boxsterboy
>> In last week or so it's hit 100,000 miles. Nothing exceptional to report at all.
>> Still 100% dispatch reliability. I think the two Berlingos are the only cars I've taken
>> to 100k without ending up needing a flatbed recovery at some point.
>>

Lousy, these cheap French cars! :-)
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - Runfer D'Hills
I wasn't going to say that BB, but now you come to mention it...;-)

Maybe I've just been extraordinarily lucky, but of all the cars I've had, and there have been many, the only one that ended up on a trailer was the accursed Espace. It did so with a regularity that beggars belief in fact.

The rest, despite huge mileages, by and large covered them more or less faultlessly. Well, apart from the Vauxhalls obviously, although in fairness even to them, none of those actually ever stopped working entirely, despite bits of them falling off from time to time.
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - tyrednemotional
>>
>> Maybe I've just been extraordinarily lucky, but of all the cars I've had, and there
>> have been many, the only one that ended up on a trailer was the accursed
>> Espace. It did so with a regularity that beggars belief in fact.
>>

...Voiture de Vendredi......?
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - Runfer D'Hills
I don't think it was made on any day or anywhere this side of the Styxx.
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Wed 6 May 20 at 12:50
 25k Miles in Another Berlingo - Mr Moo
Encouraging to hear a DPF equipped diesel hitting 100k without issues. The chap with the hat would suggest that the DPF, DMF and EGR would all be toast by now.

I guess a lot of it comes down to maintenance and using the vehicle correctly i.e. avoiding too many short journeys
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