| Motoring Discussion > Caravans | Miscellaneous |
| Thread Author: BobbyG | Replies: 16 |
|
New Sat 10 Jul 10 23:18
Caravans - BobbyG
|
|
No not the usual whinging about them holding up traffic..... however... Just back from my holiday in Newquay. and on the way there, and the way back, in the exact same downhill spot on the A30, a caravan had jack knifed. First time it was a Focus towing, second time a CRV. Both times both vehicles were very badly damaged. This made me more aware of the caravans on the road and there seems to be loads which are quite long (my dad has had 'vans for 30 odd years and these were all bigger than his 5 berth ones) but being towed by normal run-of-the-mill cars. These vans are single axle and have probably 20 + foot in length pivoted on this one axle which, when the laws of physics kick in, can be very dangerous! Is there any governance over who can tow what nowadays? Does anyone like VOSA ever check kerbweights etc? I remember when stabilisers first appeared on the market, my dad got one fitted and always had one till he gave up his caravan last year. Gave much more stability but you always ran the risk that if the van tipped, the stabiliser could result in the car tipping with it! One last observation, loads of vans registrations not matching the towing vehicle - I wonder how many of them had been pinched? Especially the van which did match the towing Transit but when passing I noticed that the rear of the Transit was missing its plate - this was obviously the plate that was on the back of the van... |
|
New Sat 10 Jul 10 23:46
Caravans - Stuu
|
|
All I know is that speed limits are routinely ignored. Latest example was the already mentioned Focus, back end looked to be dragging along the ground, towing something that must have been upwards of 20ft. The clincher was that I was doing 65 - so they were doing atleast 70. An accident waiting to happen. I wouldnt delve too much into Transits towing caravans with dubious reg numbers. The kind of people who may be driving are the sort that get away with alot that they shouldnt and nobody really cares to tackle it. |
|
New Sat 10 Jul 10 23:56
Caravans - Manatee
|
|
Anyone passing their test on or after 1 Jan 1997 is restricted to a combined MAM of 3500kgs or less, and the trailer MAM must be less than the kerbweight of the towing vehicle. There are of course car towing limits, and loading, noseweight and tyre pressures are all big factors in stability. A caravan is a very different beast to a flat trailer of the same weight; they are vulnerable to headwinds, sidewinds, draughts from passing lorries; stability can be greatly reduced if the car's rear suspension (including the tyre component) is overly compliant, perhaps due to wear, ineffective dampers, overloading or low tyre pressures. They are especially vulnerable downhill it seems too. There's no doubt in my mind that too many drivers take stability for granted, especially if they have a large car or 4x4. I suspect low tyre pressures (car and caravan) of being the biggest single factor in instability but I can't prove it - I have however experienced the difference in stability at different pressures, and I know how careless many drivers are with pressures. As Stu says, speed is also a big factor - it is well know (Bath University research) that there unstable speed can be 60mph or even lower depending on the combination. Last edited by: Manatee on Sat 10 Jul 10 at 23:58
|
|
New Sun 11 Jul 10 05:44
Caravans - Pat
|
|
I think you're probably right Manatee but a complete disregard for the MTPLM (MTPLM Maximum Technically Permissible Laden Mass is the modern version of Gross Vehicle Weight. It refers to the maximum weight that the caravan chassis can take, as stated by the chassis manufacturer. For inexperienced drivers, the MTPLM of the caravan should not exceed 85 percent of the towcar’s kerbweight) But bad loading cases a lot of problems too. When we bought our caravan 2 year ago we had a Mondeo and although the caravan was light, the match was 98%. We were told that as were both experienced lorry drivers it would be fine, and it was. We were completely new to caravanning though and both of us felt, through the seat of our pants, that it didn't handle too well. We bought the CRV and the match came down to 83%. The difference was amazing. We also load it like a lorry! Nothing goes in the top lockers for the journey to prevent a hich centre of gravity, the heavy things go over the axle and some of it goes into the back of the CRV, until the combination looks absolutely level before we set off. Yes, we're paranoid but we're both aware of how quickly the tail can, ( and will,) wag the dog. Vosa do take an interest during the summer months and have purges on holiday routes but some caravanners still brag that they can tow at 70mph+ all day. You only have to look at some to see they are nose or tail heavy but it doesn't seem to register! Pat Last edited by: pda on Sun 11 Jul 10 at 05:46
|
|
New Sun 11 Jul 10 07:43
Caravans - Iffy
|
|
A Focus was mentioned as being involved in a caravan crash earlier in the thread. My old diesel Focus hatchback was very nose heavy. I reckon the rear end is just too light to tow anything much bigger than £250 Halfords luggage trailer. The CC3 is much better balanced, so I would be more confident towing with it. |
|
New Sun 11 Jul 10 07:57
Caravans - -
|
|
For stability of any trailer esepcially having only one centre axle it's essential to get a decent nose weight on the trailer, doubly important with long overhangs like a caravan. Most towbars indeed most cars have a nose weight limit and it helps to get the weight imposed up to that limit. A balanced trailer or indeed a rear biased balance will cause big problems. As a rough guide i try to weight the front so a strong man can just lift and attach it, many keep an old pair of bathroom scales for the job. Even something as big as a car transporter can be unstable if some consideration isn't given to weighting and there have been sway induced rollovers, the drivers age group and apparent time served experience doesn't always give expected results. |
|
New Sun 11 Jul 10 08:50
Caravans - hobby
|
|
There are a lot of people out there who don't give a monkeys about weight distribution, tyre pressures, etc and they are usually the ones who you see crashed or broken down... As the others we used to be very careful how we loaded the 'van and we also used to beef up the rear suspension (there are plenty of kits around) which helps if the vehicle has a very low nose weight limit and always used a stabaliser... I also read all about it before I did it so i had some idea what I was supposed to do... The only snake I ever had was towing a stock car back from Northampton on the M1... luckily the guy I'd just passed saw what was happenning and slowed down allowing me to slow down and move onto the hard shoulder... case of too large a trailor, too small a car on it, and it was badly positioned... repositioned it and all was ok... Looking back at it its surprising that a person who has never towed before can just go out and buy a caravan hitch up and go... it must be one of the few areas of driving where some sort of control is needed, but there isn't any at all! Last edited by: hobby on Sun 11 Jul 10 at 08:52
|
|
New Sun 11 Jul 10 08:58
Caravans - L'escargot
|
| Google for "towing laws uk". Lots of information is available. |
|
New Sun 11 Jul 10 09:58
Caravans - Tigger
|
|
If any new caravanners are reading this, I hugely recommend the caravan club 1.5 day towing and manoevring course. You'll learn how to load the caravan properly, loads of tips on hitching up and practice reversing. Also tips like slowing down on downhill slopes (that's when the outfit is least stable). As for holding people up - that's very rarely me. It is possible to make progress (safely) even with a caravan on tow. I often seem to get stuck behind a corsa or similar on A roads - and if you're stuck behind me you might not realise! |
|
New Sun 11 Jul 10 10:05
Caravans - Ted
|
|
I've been towing a caravan for 40 yrs now, I also towed a heavy twin axle trailer, up to 3 tons, without any snaking problems. The trouble with some people is the ' show off ' factor..... Look, I've got a new Range Rover, see how fast I can tow my 22 ft van ! ' It seems almost as if you're challenging them by being in front on the motorway. I don't know what the big hurry is...it's a holiday, the trip's part of it. I'm quite happy at 55 on the M Way. I run with 2 stabilisers, the fitted one on the van and a Scott Trakr blade type. Most of it's down to lack of experience. Ted |
|
New Sun 11 Jul 10 10:46
Caravans - MD
|
| I am sure that I read that most caravan tyres are tubeless as one would expect, but would benefit from having a tube fitted anyway. Yes/no?? |
|
New Sun 11 Jul 10 10:59
Caravans - hawkeye
|
|
>> I am sure that I read that most caravan tyres are tubeless as one would >> expect, but would benefit from having a tube fitted anyway. Yes/no?? >> Not tubes. Tyron bands which are supposed to keep the tyre carcass on the wheel in the event of a puncture are reputedly a safety aid. I have a set fitted but have never put them to the test, thank goodness. The video clip on this page might be of interest www.tyron.com/tyron-product-testing-general-vehicles.htm |
|
New Sun 11 Jul 10 11:45
Caravans - Manatee
|
|
I have tubeless tyres on the ancient Land Rover but they aren't tubeless rims so I have to fit tubes. It's not a great idea if you don't have to do it, because tubeless tyres tend to have lots of ridges and lumps and bumps inside which rub the tube and cause punctures. I don't do many miles in it but people who do with this set up tend to get a few punctures. Once the tube is holed the tyre will go down, you don't have the sealed tubeless valve. A clued up tyre fitter (one of whom told me all this) will remove the more protruberant imperfections and make sure there's no grit in there, but I definitely wouldn't want this arrangement on a caravan. Ultraseal, as used by some motorcyclists, is an option. I never fancied the Tyron bands - better than nothing when the horse has bolted I suppose, but don't help stop the puncture. |
|
New Sun 11 Jul 10 13:25
Caravans - Skoda
|
| Pretty sure my licence doesn't cover me to tow a caravan, i passed in 2002. There's some course i need to do and an assessment i think. Seen it offered up at knockhill race track, they have a couple of jeeps and big box trailers. |
|
New Sun 11 Jul 10 13:58
Caravans - Manatee
|
|
Craig you are not debarred from towing a caravan, you just have different limits as per my post above (MAM - Maximum Authorised Mass by the way). www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?t=1955&m=36775&v=e For example I have a car with a MAM of 2140kg, a kerbweight of 1640kg, and a caravan of 1200kg MAM. Total MAM 3340kg is below your limit of 3500kg, and the caravan MAM is below the car kerbweight, so no problem even if I had passed my test when you did. In fact a caravan of 1360kg MAM would be OK with the same car. If you want a twin axle monster though, you'll have to take the trailer test. Last edited by: Manatee on Sun 11 Jul 10 at 13:58
|
|
New Mon 12 Jul 10 00:03
Caravans - Skoda
|
|
That's good to know Manatee thanks for that. It's been floating about my head to fit a towbar + elecs to the new Octy and buy a trailer tent. Saw one across from us when we were camping up around inverness last year. Got friendly with the folks who had it and i was totally impressed with it. Good to know i can legally tow one. |
|
New Mon 12 Jul 10 17:28
Caravans - Tigger
|
|
The download on this page is the best guide I've seen yet on the rules for people who passed their tests after 1 jan 1997 www.iwt.co.uk/customer-care/faq-categories/1358/1761 |
Forum Version 3.0 - By Khoosys
Car4play Forum
