The counterpart license disappears in June. People hiring cars will need an access code, valid for 72 hours, in order that that the hire company can access their records on line. According to report in The Guardian knowledge of this change and its consequences is spread pretty thin:
www.theguardian.com/money/2015/apr/25/dvla-driving-licence-paperless-car-hire
Also note that in order to obtain the code you need both your license number AND your National Insurance Number. Another example of the creeping scope of the NINO as a national identity number.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 25 Apr 15 at 14:44
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Not sure what the hertz spokeswoman is taking about i used them last month never needed my paper part. hired cars abroad as well think it was avis never asked for it. Only place in the last couple of years was a small garage that did rent a few ropey old vans. I don't seem a drama tbh. There's always a few that complain and will say they never told us anything and it's oh so confusing, see the car tax change.
Not sure about the issue in using NI number?
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>>Not sure about the issue in using NI number?>>
Apart from the fact that this will almost certainly cause chaos as originally suggested, how many people can reel off their NI number without having to do a thorough search?
Here's another link that might be useful:
www.qlocal.co.uk/southport/news_list/Driving_licence_changes-54135221.htm
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>> Apart from the fact that this will almost certainly cause chaos as originally suggested, how
>> many people can reel off their NI number without having to do a thorough search?
>>
>> Here's another link that might be useful:
>>
>> www.qlocal.co.uk/southport/news_list/Driving_licence_changes-54135221.htm
>>
I still don't see there being a massive issue, some people will always get in a flap about new rules, but that's no reason not to change this. As above the paper part is asked for rarely, plus people from countries without paper parts manage just fine. I don't see an issue with using the NI number, if it gets added on so be it.
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>> Apart from the fact that this will almost certainly cause chaos as originally suggested, how
>> many people can reel off their NI number without having to do a thorough search?
Well, there's one here.
Not a big deal is it?
AA112233B
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>> how many people can reel off their NI number without having to do a thorough
>> search?
>>
>> Well, there's one here.
>>
>> Not a big deal is it?
>>
>> AA112233B
>>
Anyone in frequent contact with the Job Centre or Benefits system will have no problem. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 27 Apr 15 at 07:37
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Just write your NI number on a post-it note in your passport!
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Dont suppose DVLA could use something like the internet banking code generators for secure access to your DVLA account?
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Never had to use the paper counter part to date when hiring a car, I shall be hiring a car in June (in Spain) and I wont need it then either. No-one will miss it.
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How does this work for European drivers who do not have a paper counter part ?
Why would the UK piece of plastic with an EU flag in the top corner have to be handled any different to all the other European driver's licences ?
Last edited by: gmac on Sat 25 Apr 15 at 15:28
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Good point, i think they are trying to make an issue out of nothing. Maybe a slow news day?
I'll be looking forward to when the go, i have to take it in to work every year for someone to check it. Tedious box ticking not sure why but i always found it mildly annoying having to take it in. Not any more :)
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You couldn't make this stuff up:
In what it says is a purge on red tape, the DVLA is abolishing the paper counterpart that currently accompanies all UK photocard licences. It is advising drivers to destroy the document (not their paper licence if they still have one) because it will no longer be legally valid. Instead, all endorsements will be held electronically on a web-based service called “Share Driving Licenceâ€.
...
"A spokeswoman for Hertz says: “We will ask customers for the DVLA one-time pass code, or for the PDF of the driver record, or we will use the DVLA premium-rate line – but this has restricted hours of operation.â€
So we destroy the paper counter part and print off a PDF to carry around instead, this is progress ?
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I hired cars on almost 40 occasions last year from a number of locations here and abroad, and didn't once have to show the paper counterpart. In fact at Avis in one location more often than not I didn't even need to show the photo card :) I assume that, as they have my driving licence number and access to the DVLa database an electronic cross check is automatic?
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Come to think of it isn't this delayed? I think it was supposed to come in at Xmas.
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I hire stuff on an almost weekly basis and haven't heard any of this!
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Hired a Fiesta from Europcar last month while mine had the car park barrier ding removed from roofline. Both photocard and counterpart were needed.
One off casual booking though. Possible that if I were a regular they'd retain my details and/or seek my consent to access DVLA.
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>> The counterpart license disappears in June.
.
.
.
>> both your license number AND your National Insurance Number. Another example of the >>creeping scope of the NINO as a national identity number.
I am surprised that you, a retired civil servant don't know the difference between licence and license.
One is a noun and the other is a verb.
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>> Also note that in order to obtain the code you need both your license number
>> AND your National Insurance Number. Another example of the creeping scope of the NINO as
>> a national identity number.
I see no problem with a national ID card.
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>> I see no problem with a national ID card.
>>
Nor do I, I carried a navy ID card for decades. It proved useful at times, even in a civil environment. Now I have a photo bus pass.
You can be tracked by your mobile phone, credit /debit card use, anpr, and probably more, one more ID version is not going to make any difference at all.
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We were used to carrying ID in Germany, as Army brats. No ID, no entry to Army facilities. German police might have wanted to see them too, but we managed to keep below their gaze.
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I'm not really sure I understand the resistance to a national ID card system. Perhaps the objectors are the ones who have something to fear
I hire a few cars most months, and the plastic card is all the overseas stations are interested in. In the UK my employer self insures so Europcar will release the car on any piece of ID like a passport, although not all stations are aware of this.
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>> I see no problem with a national ID card.
It's not the card itself I have issues with but the mechanisms needed to enforce it's carriage and production. If it's to have any value it has to be carried at all times. Any petty official, and not just those employed by the state, can and will ask then you to produce it at will and, from time to time through error, target chasing or b minded jobsworthness question your use/entitlement.
It was broadly that attitude post war that led to the courts forcing the withdrawal of the wartime card.
My particular issue with NI numbers is that it's scope has been expanded without any real debate or legislative authorisation. A number I was allocated at 16 to facilitate my interface with Social Security is now tied to my passport, my driving licence and my right to vote.
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>>Any petty official, and not just those employed by the state, can and will ask then you to
>>produce it at will and, from time to time through error, target chasing or b minded
>>jobsworthness question your use/entitlement.
Reactionary stuff and nonsense. I carry a Chilean ID card, a Brazilian ID card, and my Californian licence in the US.
I've never had an issue and I've been carrying them for 20 odd years.
In Chile the police and similar (immigration, customs, etc.) can insist you produce it. Any other time, you can only be asked to produce it if you want to complete whatever service.
e.g. the Bank cannot make you produce it, but they don't have to serve you if you don't.
It makes life far simpler than not having one. The ridiculousness of turning up with 3 utility bills, a driving licence and a stray dog stamped with your name needs to go away. The UK "credit card" Driving Licence was a Godsend.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sun 26 Apr 15 at 15:42
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Passport and plastic-card driving licence cover most ID eventualities.
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>>Passport and plastic-card driving licence cover most ID eventualities.
Indeed. In truth, just the driving licence covers everything except borders. I only have the others because the law requires it.
In fact, of course, the US does not have an ID card, they use their diving licences, although that isn't the only option. You can also get a US Driving Licence if you cannot drive, just for use as ID. (or you could some years ago when I first moved there)
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sun 26 Apr 15 at 15:56
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I like having an ID card and they should have it in the UK to cut down on identity fraud (who have the worst stats in Europe). You can sniff through someone's bin for a utility bill, walk into a moblie phone shop, take up a contract and run up some clueless guy's bill. Or a loan.
Some retailers ask for an ID card, anything that requires a signature needs an ID, financial institutions need an ID etc., etc. And small businesses require ID too. I was in a supermarket a few years ago and I wanted to 'rent' a shopping trolley (one of those car/trolley things that the kid could sit inside) - the princely transaction of about a quid meant the proprietor kept my card, probably so I didn't commit grand auto. All those things add up.
I've seen those Road Wars type where the copper spends a huge amount of time trying to find out if the scrote in the back of his car says he is. Over here if he has no ID, he's straight in the slammer and the copper is back on the beat.
The ID card does cut down on certain crimes but it's not infallible of course. I know they have identity theft here, the problem is all the blokes look like Shrek and answer to Adam, Tomek or Mariusz. Parents with an imagination (and a plastic surgeon) might remedy that.
You can fly all over the EU with an ID card and it's free (here anyway). How much is a passport? £70?
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The DM must read this forum for story ideas. :-)
tinyurl.com/ljffmwz
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>> A number I was allocated at 16 to facilitate my
>> interface with Social Security is now tied to my passport, my driving licence and my
>> right to vote.
>>
It's normally assigned soon after birth, unless your parents didn't claim child allowance.
My wife used to work for the Contributions Agency, and she dealt with a case some years ago where a guy in his 40's who lived on the family farm all his life had never been assigned an NI number.
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I keep PDF's and scanned JPGs of all documents in my dropbox.
www.dropbox.com
That way I always have access to them via the dropbox.app on my phone - and if I don't have that, I can go on any computer and login to the web-based dropbox account. In fact you could even call a relative to login for you and fax or read off a document if need be.
Alternative cloud storage is available from Microsoft One Drive, Google Drive and others.
In the past, I have rented cars without my license and the rental co. just called logged into some DVLA database for which there was a small fee to me.
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And just to add that random hire car co in Santorini (€128 for a weeks Smart car hire, organised on the spot) had zero interest in anything other than the plastic bit of my driving licence, as did Avis at Edinburgh who confirmed they access the data they need on-line anyway and have done for several years :)
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Car hire industry says DVLA is 'rushing in' new rules
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32916968
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Radio 4's Today did a piece this morning on this change. Neither James Naughtie nor the senior DVLA manager he was interviewing could bring himself to admit that no-one outside the UK will care about the code-for-access process, any more than they used to care about the paper counterpart once we had the photocard; Naughtie because he needed 'an issue' on which to hang his interview, the DVLA man because he couldn't bear the thought of his process being an irrelevance.
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Does anyone know how UK car hire desks find out about foreign tourist driving records when they present their, I guess, card type licences at Heathrow?
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>UK car hire desks find out about foreign tourist driving records
Going by how they behave with my wife, all they care is that its current and it covers the appropriate type of vehicle.
So i would say that they neither find out nor care about your record.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Mon 8 Jun 15 at 14:41
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Thanks Mark, I suspected that might be the case suggests the situation might be a trifle exaggerated, however trust the UK press not to let facts get in the way of a story :-)
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System falls over!!
Surprise Surprise
tinyurl.com/psvndhl
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What did you expect?
Simple sum, applies all over the place
UK government + IT project = disaster
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>> Does anyone know how UK car hire desks find out about foreign tourist driving records
>> when they present their, I guess, card type licences at Heathrow?
They don't. They don't care. Just like they don't care when you provide your UK license abroad.
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Just hired a car in Sardinia
As others have said, pretty brunette at the hire desk was not in the least interested in checking our DVLA code or anything else other than the plastic licence.
So the whole process seems irrelevant
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Hired a Nissan juke in Spain earlier this month. I did take a printout and code with me, a: to see how its done and b: the recent hoohaa in the press might have made a change of interest at the hire desk.
I handed over my photo card part and the code/printout stayed in my pocket.
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Car Hire Chaos Coming? - sooty123
