Since nobody else has posted already....
Media are reporting the first conviction* of a motorist under the law against 'lane hogging'. The driver of a Berlingo van has been fined £500 and given 5 points for the offence in August last year. He'll also have to pay £400 in costs and a £40 victim surcharge.
tinyurl.com/odkndq7 (Independent).
Looks like another of those cases where driver has made matters much worse for himself by failing to respond.
* Reports suggest it's first case to go to court. others handled my fixed penalty or driver improvement course
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 22 Jun 15 at 10:23
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5 points and £950 for lane hogging. Incl. a "victim surcharge"!!?
Either that's insane or there's a lot more to the story.
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>> Either that's insane or there's a lot more to the story.
Looks as though he's ignored everything up to and including failing to attend court. Not clear from the reports whether it came before a District Judge or a Lay bench but either the way the court has taken a dim view and 'thrown the book'.
IIRC the 'victim surcharge' applies in all convictions and goes to fund support for victims in and outside of the court.
If he continues to play silly bu**ers he'll get enforcement costs added as well.
t****s like this who turn up at CAB for advice seriously test my impartiality.
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>> 5 points and £950 for lane hogging. Incl. a "victim surcharge"!!?
>>
>> Either that's insane or there's a lot more to the story.
Every time you are convicted and fined in court, for *anything* there is a victim surcharge. Specially when there isn't a victim.
Its not insane, its ruddy theft.
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>> Its not insane, its ruddy theft.
You ain't seen nothing yet. The latest plan is to charge the convicted defendant court fees similar to those paid by the claimant in civil cases.
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>> >> Its not insane, its ruddy theft.
>>
>> You ain't seen nothing yet. The latest plan is to charge the convicted defendant court
>> fees similar to those paid by the claimant in civil cases.
You know what we need, we need a European Court for Human Rights.
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They put the money under Free Parking, until a real victim lands there and collects it?
Or can all the people whose journeys were delayed claim some too?
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>>Or can all the people whose journeys were delayed claim some too?
I was once stuck on the M25 for most of a day when a truck a couple of hundred yards ahead crashed through the barriers. Needless to say it was chaos.
The police took about six hours to clear the backlog and allow us to turn around on the same carriageway and exit the junction, which had to be closed for other traffic as well.
My colleague who was in the car with me at the time insensitively thought about invoicing the driver's employer for time lost after the frustration of missing an important meeting but after a cold pint thought better of it.
I bet some people try it on?
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>> Media are reporting the first conviction* of a motorist under the law against 'lane hogging'.
>> The driver of a Berlingo van has been fined £500 and given 5 points for
>> the offence in August last year.
May it be the first of many!
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I presume that people will be filming offenders with their dash cams and posting it on Youtube?
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>> I presume that people will be filming offenders with their dash cams and posting it
>> on Youtube?
There are plenty of people posting examples of egregious driving on You Tube.
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Self appointed lane enforcers with cameras, we will have to learn the lane layout of every junction in the country. Even my satnav is not 100% right!
If it is the choice between the possibility of being crushed between lorries while the drivers eat their lunch or watch a movie in lane one, I will be in lane two or three.I wonder if "Too many heavies in lane 1 / 2 is a defence?
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>> I wonder if "Too many heavies in lane 1 / 2 is a defence?
Too much traffic in leftmost lane(s) would be a defence. But the cloggers I see drive mile after mile with next to nothing in lane 1.
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There are quite often good reasons to stay in the middle lane between overtakes, but the essential thing here is getting unnecessarily in the way of other traffic and slowing everything down to a crawl. It's the inelegance of it that's so repellent. If you're going to stay in the middle lane for a while, the least you can do is keep your speed up. Driving at the same speed as the n/s lane traffic is just awful, American behaviour.
About a third of car drivers are utterly moronic about this sort of thing, and bad driving is infectious on busy roads. Van and lorry drivers by contrast are nearly all sensible.
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>> Van and lorry drivers by contrast are nearly
>> all sensible.
I think you inhabit a fantasy world, where rose tinted glasses are compulsory!
Last edited by: Rick O'Shea on Mon 22 Jun 15 at 19:00
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>> I think you inhabit a fantasy world, where rose tinted glasses are compulsory!
That's rubbish O'Shea. I see that you just want everyone to be busted. Fat lot of good that would do.
Keep the traffic moving and minimize casualties. Faffing about how everyone's in the wrong is just boring crap.
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>> That's rubbish O'Shea. I see that you just want everyone to be busted. Fat lot
>> of good that would do.
>>
>> Keep the traffic moving and minimize casualties. Faffing about how everyone's in the wrong is
>> just boring crap.
>>
Taking my cue from the above....
That's rubbish Coussine. I see that you just want everyone to be allowed to drive carelessly. Faffing about with no lane discipline whatsoever.
Rather like you Coussine I also enjoy putting words into other peoples mouths!
PS
Just given your post the 'Thumbs Up' as it made me laugh so much!
Last edited by: Rick O'Shea on Mon 22 Jun 15 at 19:35
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>> That's rubbish Coussine. I see that you just want everyone to be allowed to drive carelessly. Faffing about with no lane discipline whatsoever.
What makes you see that? Can you quote chapter and verse? That's the opposite of what I think and what I say here (but not everyone can read).
I don't bother to put words in other people's mouths. They manage to make prats of themselves without my help or encouragement.
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>>
>> Keep the traffic moving and minimize casualties. Faffing about how everyone's in the wrong is
>> just boring crap.
>>
Case proven!
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About a third of car drivers are utterly moronic about this sort of thing... Van and lorry drivers by contrast are nearly all sensible.
I reckon about a third of van drivers (including 90% of Sprinter drivers and all DHL drivers) and a smaller but still significant percentage of lorry drivers are just as bad.
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Without a shadow of a doubt the worst behaved vehicles on British motorways must be the coaches.
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>> Without a shadow of a doubt the worst behaved vehicles on British motorways must be
>> the coaches.
I'd like to meet a National Express mechanic, I would love to know a: how to give a speed limiter a 30% upper margin of error, and b: how to make a tacho under read by 15mph.
I often, and I mean nearly always, have to be doing 72mph+ (actual sat nav speed) to get past one in the middle lane
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>> I'd like to meet a National Express mechanic, I would love to know a: how
>> to give a speed limiter a 30% upper margin of error, and b: how to
>> make a tacho under read by 15mph.
>>
>> I often, and I mean nearly always, have to be doing 72mph+ (actual sat nav
>> speed) to get past one in the middle lane
Aren't coaches governed to 110 KPH (69 MPH) ?
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>> Aren't coaches governed to 110 KPH (69 MPH) ?
no - should be 62mph.
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>> Without a shadow of a doubt the worst behaved vehicles on British motorways must be
>> the coaches.
>>
Indeed, the driving of some of the commuter coaches that I see on a daily basis on the M2/A2 into London is extremely scary to say the least !
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>> I reckon about a third of van drivers (including 90% of Sprinter drivers and all
>> DHL drivers)
you lot must drive around with your eyes closed
Every sprinter I see is a: doing 90mph, and b: far from hogging the middle lane, is 3 inches off the bumper of the car in front in the outside lane.
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Every sprinter I see is a: doing 90mph, and b: ... is 3 inches off the bumper of the car in front...
Yes, that's true. I was challenging what seemed to be AC's assertion that vans are driven well, so my focus wandered a bit from the middle lane.
AC, of course, has a rather different definition of 'driven well' from most of us.
};---)
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>> Every sprinter I see is a: doing 90mph, and b: far from hogging the middle
>> lane, is 3 inches off the bumper of the car in front in the outside
>> lane.
>>
I find that a good long dose of my very effective screen washers helps them see how close they are to my back bumper.
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Wouldn't your windscreen washers be more effective if they were aimed at your own windscreen, rather than over the roof at the one behind you?
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>> Wouldn't your windscreen washers be more effective if they were aimed at your own windscreen,
>> rather than over the roof at the one behind you?
Not sure I am going to be deterred by a P***y thin spray from a yaris.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 23 Jun 15 at 16:11
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>> >> Wouldn't your windscreen washers be more effective if they were aimed at your own
>> windscreen,
>> >> rather than over the roof at the one behind you?
>>
>> Not sure I am going to be deterred by a P***y thin spray from a
>> yaris.
And a fat lip at the next set of traffic lights might not add to the enjoyment of your journey.
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>> And a fat lip at the next set of traffic lights might not add to
>> the enjoyment of your journey.
What happens when you offer him a fat lip, he accepts, gets out of his car and he is built like Lurch?
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>> Not sure I am going to be deterred by a P***y thin spray from a
>> yaris.
>>
I'll take that as "I've not driven one"
There is no spray of washer fluid.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 23 Jun 15 at 16:45
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>> >> Not sure I am going to be deterred by a P***y thin spray from
>> a
>> >> yaris.
>> >>
>>
>> I'll take that as "I've not driven one"
>>
>> There is no spray of washer fluid.
There is, somewhere.
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>> There is, somewhere.
>>
Only a solid jet of fluid parralel with the single wiper blade from a nozzle on the wiper arm.
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which at speed ends up as spray over the roof of the car.
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still not enough to put a sprinter driver off his stroke.
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I am sure you are the expert.
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don't need to be - its obvious.
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>> I reckon about a third of van drivers (including 90% of Sprinter drivers and all DHL drivers) and a smaller but still significant percentage of lorry drivers are just as bad.
Eeeeh... a certain category-based bigotry discernible there WDB.
Nothing's 100% but I usually feel I know where I am with commercial drivers. If they tailgate me I try to let them pass. Doesn't often happen of course.
There are a lot of small fast white vans round here these days. They don't bother me either. Live and let live. I've matured from the eager beaver I used to be.
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Not just the UK.
Here they hog lanes just as much, pootling along at 50/55 in lanes 3 or 4 with a long tailback behind. I know that undertaking is allowed, but often lanes 1, 2 or 3 are full. The main culprits are elderly folks, and middle aged females in Honda CRVs and their ilk. I have noticed this over several weeks driving in this part of the world.
Unlike the locals, I flash my lights and they eventually get the message. Not very polite but I don't give a stuff. Blippin Californians!
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>> The driver of a Berlingo van
..and here he is:
tinyurl.com/nnks5fc (Mail)
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>> >> The driver of a Berlingo van
>>
>> ..and here he is:
>> tinyurl.com/nnks5fc (Mail)
Had time to pose for a photograph, but not to appear in court.
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>>
>> Had time to pose for a photograph, but not to appear in court.
>>
Twonk then?
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in more ways than one it seems.
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Would DM have paid him for his story? Might have made a profit (if you don't count the points on his licence).
Last edited by: Focusless on Mon 22 Jun 15 at 21:43
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>> in more ways than one it seems.
>>
Oh yes!.
If the Wail article is correct
"Officers have the power to hand out a £90 spot fine and three penalty points to motorists caught middle-lane hogging, tailgating or using the wrong lane on a roundabout.
Drivers who accept the sanction avoid court action – an option not taken by Mr Stephens."
".....completely unfair. Firstly I have got to find nearly £1,000 to pay the fine and costs but then my work van insurance will go through the roof. It’s a disgrace.’ "
"......but now that is a very real prospect because of this massive fine. I am going to appeal it. It is so ridiculous.’"
Appeal ?
Then he is an even bigger Twonk.
It has already cost an extra two points and several hundred pounds
Stop digging a hole ???
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About time these selfish morons were punished for their actions. While a great deal of lane hoggers are a result of our weak driving test and general belief that a licence is a right not a privilege; hence most inept "drivers" get into the "safe lane" and hang on in there until their exit comes up; this guy actually drives as part of his job!
No understanding that he is using up two lanes when he is in the wrong place, no acceptance that he was actually in the wrong, disdain for the Police and the courts as he didn't bother answering the summons, but plenty of time to pose for the photographers and gather support from the hard of understanding readers of the tabloids.
A rolling road block, just like the Police wannabees who set their (probably inaccurate) cruise controls to precisely 70mph and wonder why they are being overtaken on both sides.
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>> and gather support from the hard of understanding readers of the tabloids.
Well he's failed there if you read the Mail comments (click on the 'Best rated' tab).
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>> >> and gather support from the hard of understanding readers of the tabloids.
>>
>> Well he's failed there if you read the Mail comments (click on the 'Best rated'
>> tab).
>>
It is obviously beneath his importance and inteligence to actually read a Mail article.
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>> It is obviously beneath his importance and inteligence to actually read a Mail article.
Luckily I don't have those handicaps :)
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Today's Matt on the front of the comic: excellent.
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I think some middle lane hoggers get stuck there by accident. Some people are quite happy driving at a steady 70 mph, so pull out to pass what looks like a stream of vehicles in lane 1 doing about 65.
But I've noticed quite a lot of people start slowly accelerating once someone is overtaking them, so the middle lane person now finds he is no longer passing the vehicles on his left, but they are now relatively stationary or perhaps drawing ahead. The gaps he could have dropped back into have now closed up, and he finds he has to accelerate above his preferred speed if he is to stand any chance of getting past.
Finally a lorry is now tailgating him, so he can't see properly where there might be a gap to his left.
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>> a lot of people start slowly accelerating once someone is overtaking them, so the middle lane person now finds he is no longer passing the vehicles on his left, but they are now relatively stationary or perhaps drawing ahead.
That's what the pedal on the right is for CP. It's very annoying when people stick rigidly to the same speed. Some even use CC in traffic, the wallies.
If you don't have a fluid approach to speed, and are incapable of exceeding the NSL even to get past an annoying driver trying to kill you, you aren't competent in my book.
I bet our fuzz members agree even if they can't admit it.
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>> I bet our fuzz members agree even if they can't admit it.
>>
Agreed...(does ex-fuzz count?)
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>> (does ex-fuzz count?)
Didn't imagine there was such a thing Wp...
:o}
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With you till the last bit, Cliff. But how does a tailgating lorry block the view over the port bow to where the gaps might be? And how, at our driver's steady 70, does a lorry tailgate at all?
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>> And how, at our driver's steady 70, does a lorry tailgate at all?
Ask Pat. A lot of commercial vehicles including big ones, not just Sprinters, can do over 70.
Anyway 'our driver' is a silly speed limit wonk, incompetent as described.
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>> Anyway 'our driver' is a silly speed limit wonk, incompetent as described.
>>
I don't see how engaging in a silly duel with drivers who are intent on thwarting people who merely want to go a little faster than them aids smooth and efficient use of road space.
I was merely offering an explanation of why some lane-hogging occurs. If you don't recognise this scenario, then fine, perhaps I am mistaken in my interpretation of recent observations on a busy motorway.
Your own aspersions on the driving styles of all other motorists but yourself must be presumed to be correct.
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>> Your own aspersions on the driving styles of all other motorists but yourself must be presumed to be correct.
I'm seldom wrong CP, and I admit it when I am. But you accuse me of thinking I'm the only good driver on the road... that's just garbage. I'm far from perfect, sometimes careless verging on bad, and I've spelt it out here often enough.
There are no hard-and-fast rules about lane use. Drivers have to improvise in a fluid way, very obviously actually, and some are better at it than others. Most display enough nous for enough of the time to prevent really bad things from happening too often.
I feel sorry for drivers who desire rules and try to observe them rigidly. They are often obstructive and sometimes dangerous. I give them a wide berth when I notice them.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Sat 27 Jun 15 at 15:25
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>> Ask Pat. A lot of commercial vehicles including big ones, not just Sprinters, can do
>> over 70.
>>
No they can't; not on the level anyway. An LGV's limiter cuts in at a maximum of 90 kph/56mph and the official speed limit, as you know, is 60 mph. The only way any lorry would exceed 70 mph on a British road would be if it was coasting down a steep hill and on my Renault, the exhaust brake would kick in at 58 mph anyway. That in itself would not stop the lorry's speed increasing if the hill were steep or long enough, but it would have to be very long and steep.
I would add that if the speed limiter is faulty or has been deliberately disabled by the driver or haulier, then yes the lorry may well be capable of doing 70 mph or even more on the level. The DVSA (formerly VOSA) keep a sharp eye out for these and jump on offenders very heavily indeed. Regular road users will have noticed that a certain Irish company whose white lorries are a common sight "moving on" around the UK now tend to be travelling slightly under the speed limit; apparently they were told very firmly that they either cleaned their act up and stayed 100% legal or else they would be shut down.
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>> if the speed limiter is faulty or has been deliberately disabled by the driver or haulier, then yes the lorry may well be capable of doing 70 mph or even more on the level.
In my young day they used to do it with a sixpence coin, or so it was said. But trucks and buses often have a choice of rear axle ratios which can give them quite a turn of speed on a clear road. Time was when artics were limited to 56mph, and freewheeling down any decent hill was common practice.
Of course those very big US artics can do 100 on the flat or even more.
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AC, from memory truck speed limits on certain Interstates are 75 in Idaho & Nevada. Slightly lower in Montana. I remember having to do over 90 to overtake some of the road trains, truck plus two trailers, on a few occasions. Eventually I realised that was using too much gas, so settled at a steady 70/75 cruise when covering large interstate distances on last years road ski trip.
Got some great shots of these trucks & trailers when in the front passenger seat of Zeke, my friends Toyota Tundra.
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>> AC, from memory truck speed limits on certain Interstates are 75 in Idaho & Nevada. Slightly lower in Montana.
Never mind the speed limits... I'm talking about what the trucks can do (and quite often do do).
All countries have speed limits, and people who exceed them risk being penalized if caught, as any fule kno... But safely breaking speed limits is widespread and entirely reasonable in my book.
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On the M40 southbound last night near High Wycombe.
Two fast police Vovlos were driving right up to the bumpers of cars in lane 2 and then indicating for the to pull in to lane 1.
I was behind one. One police car sat in lane 2 and indicated to move to lane 1. They wanted the car in front to move in to the gap between it and the car in front but there wasn't enough room (about 2 car lengths which at 70 is far too little). The car was moving faster than the traffic in lane 1 so had the right to be in lane 2 as it was passing the traffic. It wasn't imho doing more than 70.
When the car failed to pull in the police car pulled out again and lit up its blues and pulled it over.
A little later on the second police Volvo in lane 3 pulled up along side a Fiat Punto and matched its speed for a while and was indicating to move in. When the Fiat did not move quickly enough (about 10 seconds) the police car aggressively moved over in to lane 2 forcing the Fiat in to lane 1. Only half way through the maneuver did the Volvo put its blues on. Whilst the Fiat was halfway over the line the police car cut right across the Fiat's front causing it to brake so violently that smoke came off its tyres. The police car then switched off its blue lights and speed away.
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>> Whilst the Fiat was halfway over the line the police car cut right across the Fiat's front causing it to brake so violently that smoke came off its tyres. The police car then switched off its blue lights and speed away.
It's rare, but not unknown, for two colour cars to be driven on the same stretch of road by very thick, or even drunk, coppers. I've seen a couple of such incidents over the years. But they're unusual.
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Not so much rare as bizarre. Don't motorway cars have mirror-image and rear-window matrix displays they can use to issue directions to drivers - 'follow me', 'pull over' and suchlike?
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>> 'follow me', 'pull over' and suchlike?
They were not using them!
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Could be they were trainee pursuit drivers getting a bit of practice in the real world. I doubt if their instructors were impressed.
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One law for us and another.....
They are probably having a good laugh about the FIAT driver on the M40 that they scared the s*** out of. It is no wonder that windscreen cameras are becoming so popular. The risk of the event on the tube is not high enough yet, but will be as the American police have found out to their cost.
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Growing men or women playing silly games.The Fiat should have run into the back of the nutters car.
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First Clogger Convicted. - No FM2R
