Does the panel think that divers eye tests should be mandatory for (say) over 60s, or everyone every few years.
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/elderly-woman-involved-in-four-car-pileup-was-found-to-only-be-able-to-see-for-seven-meters-10368632.html
At least her licence was rapidly revoked.
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Just noticed that my drivers became divers. Smarta***d computers!
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I don't want the hassle of regular checks and I don't suppose anyone else does either, so I simply can't be bothered.
I also know for sure that I will recognise the fact when my eyesight - or programmed reaction suite - becomes unreliable and dangerous. I won't be pleased of course, I'll get new spectacles and so on, but I really like to think I won't deny the obvious.
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>> I also know for sure that I will recognise the fact when my eyesight...becomes unreliable and dangerous.
I hope so. I suppose we can easily check our distance vision, but would we notice a reduction in peripheral vision? The boss "failed" the field test last week. The 'orspital don't think there's anything wrong, probably got her head in the wrong position or something. She never does as she's told.
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>> I hope so. I suppose we can easily check our distance vision, but would we
>> notice a reduction in peripheral vision?
And there's the danger. Changes tend to be slow/gradual. You don't notice loss of acuity, narrowing of visual field or even declining night vision.
As to whether it's worth the cost and complication of regular testing and age from which such a regime might apply we'd need some evidence.
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There are plenty of younger drivers who also should be wearing glasses. For many it's a vanity thing. Not sure how you enforce the wearing of spectacles even if you insist on an eye test.
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If there isn't a glasses marker on driving licences and DVLA records there should be, it should also be a insurance declaration.
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Not really practical without regular testing and a lot of administration. Eyesight changes throught the period of the licence and drivers may choose to use contact lenses or even have laser surgery in lieu of wearing spectacles.
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>> Eyesight changes throught the period of the licence
As in deteriorates with age, so a test should be mandatory every few years. I am sure the high street opticians would issue a certificate for a few quid.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 6 Jul 15 at 20:49
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So you basically want an eyesight test every few years throught the period of the licence with an eyesight certificate to presumably be produced to the police on demand.
How does that work in practice if you are stopped one night and are wearing contact lenses. You produce your certificate which say you need eyesight correction. Do you have to remove the lenses by the roadside to prove you a legal?
It would all be an administrative nightmare.
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>> How does that work in practice
well using the not unreasonable assumption that eyesight deteriorates as one gets older, one should have to produce a certificate from an optician to say corrective eyewear has been dispensed and or eyesight checked every time the license is renewed. Make that renewal every 5 years and bingo, problem solved more or less.
Its very rare that eyesight gets really bad in the space of 5 years.
Make everyone retake a driving test every 5 years as well if you like.
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That's all very well apart from the administrative cost but how does it resolve the problem of making those who should wear glasses or contact lenses actually wear them. How could it be enforced? See my earlier post.
An awful lot of drivers know they need eyesight correction but won't wear glasses mainly for vanity reasonsand and they tend to be younger drivers
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2793460/the-drivers-vain-wear-glasses-one-eight-need-specs-admit-not-wearing-wheel.html
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Mon 6 Jul 15 at 22:18
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>> That's all very well apart from the administrative cost
What administrative cost? you the driver pay for the eye test, you the driver pay for the new license
but how does it resolve the
>> problem of making those who should wear glasses or contact lenses actually wear them.
I doesn't, any more than it resolves those driving without insurance, those driving over the limit, those exceeding the speed limit, but it does ensure at least that someone is having an eye test, and some of those will wear them.
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Whoever pays for it that's still an administrative cost. There might be some benefit in more eye tests although I rather think that most people know whether or not their eyesight is good enough to drive.
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>> Whoever pays for it that's still an administrative cost.
Its a "paid for service" not an "administrative cost"
And for a lot of people eyesight deteriorates so slowly that you might not know you have fallen below the legal requirement.
I really don't know why you are trying to knock holes in a win win scenario, is there some FI at work here?
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Why is it a win win scenario.? We all end up paying a lot more for driving licences and eye tests for a benefit that is hypothetical.
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>> Why is it a win win scenario.? We all end up paying a lot more
>> for driving licences and eye tests for a benefit that is hypothetical.
>>
Because you don't get a licence without a valid eyesight certificate.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 6 Jul 15 at 23:01
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It just might keep someone with poor eyesight off the road.
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And it might not as I have already pointed out but we would all be paying more. That's not my definition of a win win situation.
To be convinced I woiuld have to see some proof that there is a real issue here wiith some statistics on accidents due to poor eyesight. As far as I am aware there are none.
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>> As in deteriorates with age,
Age is only one factor, albeit a significant one. There are a wide variety of conditions that can strike at any age.
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>> If there isn't a glasses marker on driving licences and DVLA records there should be,
Back of the license, column 12, code 01 = eyesight correction
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Now that we all have to renew our photo licences every ten years, it would be a relatively simple matter to require the renewal application to be accompanied by a sight test certificate dated not more than twelve months previously. Everyone who drives has a duty to get their eyes checked regularly anyway, so it would hardly be an imposition.
As for CGN's point, the police could have a simple roadside test that most would pass easily, and refer any cases of doubt to a further test at the station or at a practice.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Mon 6 Jul 15 at 21:33
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"As for CGN's point, the police could have a simple roadside test that most would pass easily, and refer any cases of doubt to a further test at the station or at a practice."
They already do. "Can you read that number plate madam?
The driver in question failed that test.
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By inference from the article, she couldn't even see the numberplate!
I do wear glasses for driving, and my licence does record the fact as well. Despite this being a rather sensible thing, only those who passed their test wearing glasses are logged and not someone like my brother who now wears glasses for driving, but precious little else. I suspect though he probably meets the standard without them, but sees better with them.
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...my brother who now wears glasses for driving, but precious little else.
Better mind himself on the seats in this hot weather.
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>>Does the panel think that divers eye tests should be mandatory for (say) over 60s, or everyone every few years>>
Well you didn't manage to spot that meters are generally for measuring and metres are connected with distance...:-)
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>>Well you didn't manage to spot that meters are generally for measuring and metres are connected with distance
Triffic!
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The whole article's badly edited as in: The incident took place at 12.50pm on Sunday on the westbound carriage of the A27 motorway.
Brighton City Airport sounds odd too but I guess the burghers have renamed Shoreham Aerodrome. Hopefully the striking art deco 1930s terminal is still extant.
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Not only odd but wrong. City is the City of Brighton and Hove. Weird if you ask me, as although they seemlessly meet, the city is still made up of two towns.
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Mandatory in Spain for driving licence renewal, as is a doctor's stickyfoot, once one reaches, IIRC 70yrs of age.
Not free either: it used to cost me 60 Euros or so, plus passport sized photos, plus around a 30 euro fee to a gestor to sort out the tedious bit of filling out the forms, issuing a temporary "licence applied for" note and dealing with all the rest of the bureaucracy.
One could be without a real licence for up to 6 weeks or so, so a gestor's note was pretty near vital if stopped by the Guardia Civil Trafico heavies.
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How often do people on here have their eyes tested anyway, I have had mine tested every two years or less since I was 6 years old, including peripheral and colour vision for a long time
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>> How often do people on here have their eyes tested anyway, I have had mine
>> tested every two years or less since I was 6 years old, including peripheral and
>> colour vision for a long time
>>
We have our eyes tested regularly.
As I have said before.
It is the only passive way to examine blood vessels and some other problems can be identified.
I suspect folks will not get tested for fear of being sold expensive new specs.
It is a choice, if a non driver, to continue with the " wrong" specs.
It should not be a choice, if a driver, to have regular eye tests.
Costs - so what ? It is not a right to drive with poor eyesight.
I do not accept we need statistics to prove the need for change.
I suspect it is once a case of avoid the problem as we will loose votes!.
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>> Brighton City Airport sounds odd too but I guess the burghers have renamed Shoreham Aerodrome.
Shoreham...the oldest established airport in the UK.
At one stage it was label " International" as Jersey European operated three days a week to Jersey.
>> Hopefully the striking art deco 1930s terminal is still extant.
>>
It is protected and still in regular demand for filming
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>> >> Hopefully the striking art deco 1930s terminal is still extant.
>> >>
>> It is protected and still in regular demand for filming
Was down there last year and had a cream tea. Its was getting that "cracking up" look that all rendered buildings of that type get, but still superb example of its type. Worth a visit.
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I put a post or two about Croydon Aerodrome and a movie made by some relations of mine in this thread earlier, and they have vanished.
I'm not imagining this. I am almost tempted to take it personally. If someone wants me to because I'm so boring, why don't they say so instead of snivelling around with special rights?
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>> If someone wants me to because I'm so boring, why don't they say so instead of snivelling around with special rights?
I agree. Dave, you should admit that you either;
1) Find AC boring and so delete stuff he writes
or
2) Delete his posts just to annoy him
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 7 Jul 15 at 19:44
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I agree. Wind me up, that's the way to go.
Meanwhile I think I need some new glasses. If only they didn't cost the earth... not the lenses of course but the coatings and even cheapo frames.
I tried to construct my own online but it didn't work. Only an optician can get the pupillary distance spot on.
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>> 1) Find AC boring and so delete stuff he writes
>> or
>> 2) Delete his posts just to annoy him
3) Find someone else to blame.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 7 Jul 15 at 21:34
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I've just been through the RSS Forum Feeds right back to the 15th June. There is no mention of an Aerodrome or Croydon by AC in all that time other than the mention of it just now.
So, even if it had been deleted from here, it should still be in the RSS forum feed that's downloaded to my Outlook email software (and to anyone else who downloads an RSS feed from here).
So, I'll have a stab in the dark, seeing as that's what others are doing.
AC has mentioned before that sometimes when he goes to post something, the forum has logged him out. Maybe, just maybe, he thinks he's posted something, but he's been logged out and hasn't noticed.
In short, continually getting blamed for something that I haven't done is starting to wear a bit thin. Now go point the finger at someone else.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 7 Jul 15 at 21:50
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>> getting blamed for something that I haven't done is starting to wear a bit thin. Now go point the finger at someone else.
I'm not blaming you or pointing the finger Vx. I certainly don't mean to be. I'm a bit slow with this internet stuff.
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>>I'm not imagining this. I am almost tempted to take it personally. If someone wants me to
>> because I'm so boring, why don't they say so instead of snivelling around with special
>>rights?
So, AC, since Dave denies it, what d'ya think? Smokie? Always seemed a bit dodgy. Not really snivelly though.
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>> So, AC, since Dave denies it,
>>
I recon its finger trouble, (operator error).
I used to ride my bike to Croydon Airport to watch the planes when I was a kid.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 7 Jul 15 at 22:20
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>> I used to ride my bike to Croydon Airport to watch the planes when I
>> was a kid.
I learned utility cycling riding mine to Yeadon (now Leeds/Bradford International) Airport in the mid seventies.
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>> I'm not blaming you or pointing the finger Vx.
I know you're not.
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I'm 63 (in September) but I don't need goggles for driving, or reading - in good light.
I haven't visited a doctor since 1992. My father died from a cerebral haemorrhage back in 1961 and he probably had HBP. Did they have blood pressure monitors back then I wonder.
Mother died from heart failure. Bro died from ruptured aortic aneurysm. Two sists on HBP meds. Remaining bro likewise.
My BP is probably raised to a certain extent, so I could well suffer a life changing occurrence while driving my car; so, the 65,000, shekel question is - Should the testing of blood pressure be mandatory for (say) the over 60's every few years :)
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Driving puts everyone's blood pressure up, as in various levels of road rage. Seeing the opposition is essential. :-)
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I just checked mine, twice. It was well within 'optimal' if the user's guide graphic can be believed.
On the other hand my heart rate, very variable and often slow, was 84.
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Still optimal/normal, but HR still 84 after a dip to 81.
No doubt there's a good reason or two.
I prefer 60-65 where it sometimes is. Must cultivate temperate habits for what they're worth.
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A late friend's late East African wife had quite severe hypertension, in her case exacerbated by excessive consumption of salt which is a custom in those parts.
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Search around, you can buy a blood pressure measurement machine for a little as £15 and solve the issue. I'd be annoyed if some faceless bureaucrat decided one has to have a measurement in the 'safe zone' as although I have, proving it is not so easy since I have what is known as 'white coat syndrome' (basically raised blood pressure if read by a doctor of nurse).
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>> since I have what is known as 'white coat syndrome'
Does it make *that* much difference to the reading?
And is it a white coat when you're having a blood pressure measurement or do you suffer whenever you see a doctor?
What about if you bumped into a doctor in the street?
I am genuinely interested since apparently my Father has this, and I'd been a bit dismissive.
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>>What about if you bumped into a doctor in the street?
Only if he/she was wearing a white coat.
:}
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Does it make *that* much difference to the reading?
And is it a white coat when you're having a blood pressure measurement or do you suffer whenever you see a doctor?
What about if you bumped into a doctor in the street?
I am genuinely interested since apparently my Father has this, and I'd been a bit dismissive.
Not the sort of answer you want, but really, 'it depends' is the only one I can give. For me at least, I do learn to relax after a few measurements on a few occasions have been taken by the same person. In my case, perhaps a raise of 10 units, so you might get 149/95 (hypertensive, but not much) , but with my machine in my house, say 139/85 (just below hypertensive). Mine is now usually lower, but I will have to keep an eye on it shortly as a side effect of some treatment I'm about to get is raised blood pressure).
White coat syndrome is inspired by just about any healthcare professional, doctor or nurse. But no doctor will take a measurement - or shouldn't if you just bump into them as it's supposed to be a resting figure, say 10 minutes of sitting down.
If one searches around, you can get a good enough machine for £15, and then all you need to do is a back to back measurement with a expensive doctors machine to learn if yours read high/low/about right. My GP was more than happy to do this.
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Do you feel tense or under pressure when being tested? If so, is it just when tested, or in any encounter with a doctor?
[sorry if I'm being excessively nosey]
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 7 Jul 15 at 22:45
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Do you feel tense or under pressure when being tested? If so, is it just when tested, or in any encounter with a doctor?
Not really, but the pump up stage of the checking can be an issue. If I am driving the machine, I sort of expect the discomfort produced, but sometimes when doctors do it, the thing can cause mild pain - so I tense up.
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If I bought a monitor and found I had HBP, I'd only worry about it, and so raise it further, so I'd best remain blissfully ignorant .... until.!
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>> I haven't visited a doctor since 1992. My father died from a cerebral haemorrhage back in 1961 and he probably had HBP. Did they have blood pressure monitors back then I wonder.
Yes BP monitors pre-date Jesus's dad. Cerebral haemorrhages in someone in their 40s/early 50s (as I'd guess your dad was in 1961) are more likely a quirk of fate due to a wonky blood vessel in the brain than high blood pressure though.
>> Mother died from heart failure.
Lots of causes for this eg. coronary artery disease, knackered heart valves, alcohol damage, genetic defect of heart muscle, etc etc - blood pressure may be a factor
>>Bro died from ruptured aortic aneurysm.
In Scotland (and I presume England) men are offered an ultrasound scan at 65 to look for aortic aneurysm - for a patient in your situation, I would suggest testing now would be a sensible precaution (aneurysms are easy to monitor if you find one, and if it got to a 'rupturable' size surgery has a 5% chance of killing you vs. a 95% chance if it goes pop)
>>Two sists on HBP meds. Remaining bro likewise.
I'd guess then you have at least a 50% chance of having high blood pressure. Probably higher
>>My BP is probably raised to a certain extent (yep), so I could well suffer a life changing occurrence while driving my car (or in your sleep/having breakfast/sitting on the khazi...); so, the 65,000, shekel question is - Should the testing of blood pressure be mandatory for (say) the over 60's every few years :)
I'd never suggest anything should be mandatory where it has no direct effect on other people: it's your body/life/death/vegetative state after stroke. If you're an airline pilot or bus driver however then I think a degree of nannying by the State becomes easier to argue for
If you invest £10-15 in a BP monitor from Boots/Lloyds/wherever (make sure it's an around the upper arm jobby, not one of the wrist things) check it a few times at different times of the day. If the majority of the readings are 130/80 or less then I'd not be concerned. If you get a fair number 150/90 or more then you might benefit from formal BP checking.
All the blood pressure tablets in the world won't help if you plan on getting cancer in the next couple of years, or choke to death on a chip though...
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ISTR my dad was well overweight. He used to virtually live on Phensic, so there musta bin something going on up top.
He was 54 when he 'went'.
Mother was a smoker 'til well into her 60's, she went at 88 so not a bad innings.
She was on warfarin & digoxin, so her CVD musta bin quite bad.
Bro was a smoker from his mid teens up until his 70's. He also had Lewy body dementia.
He did have his aneurysm scanned & was offered a stent, which he declined.
My uncle died of from a ruptured aortic aneurysm, as did two of my friends = all life-long smokers.
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>>(make sure it's an around the upper arm jobby, not one of the wrist things)
That includes my daughter and my GPs saying the same sort of thing!!.
Why oh why does it appear that the vast majority of the medical profession turn their noses up at wrist monitors????
SWMO suffers a lot of pain from cuff monitors .
The readings are rubbish and the pain can last for a couple of days.
I bought an Omron wrist monitor, not a cheap Chinese job, a few years ago - RRP £150 that has all sorts of bells and whistles.
It has been cross checked by 3 GPs and found to be good.
It has been recalibrated, for peace of mind by the makers.
It read the same before and after calibrated.
Why did Omron make such a device if it did not work or damage their reputation ??
But still our GPs seem reluctant to accept our readings.
Their problem is they cannot obtain any good readings by their methods.
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>>It has been cross checked by 3 GPs and found to be good
>>Their problem is they cannot obtain any good readings by their methods.
Doesn't make much sense.
Anyhoo: www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/high-blood-pressure/expert-answers/wrist-blood-pressure-monitors/faq-20057802
I had a patient some years ago who steadfastly refused to consider BP meds on the strength of her home wrist monitor giving her normal BP, despite my readings being consistently high (I use a mercury sphyg normally as the automatic ones do tend to overinflate - I have an automatic one which I occasionally use for corroboration)
I asked the patient to being her monitor in, and sure enough on her left wrist it read 130/75 or so.
When I checked both of her upper arms she scored 180/100, and when I put her monitor on her right wrist it also showed around 180/100.
She stopped using her monitor.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Wed 8 Jul 15 at 00:34
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As the Mayo says in your link, the wrist monitor has to be accurately positioned.
I have no idea what the cheap versions do but the Omron one we have has to be positioned exactly else it will not start the measurement.
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Should the testing of blood pressure be mandatory for (say) the over 60's every few years :)
GPs seem very keen ( bonus?) to test blood pressure these days.
Our surgeny has one of these for DIY while waiting.
Arm in rest elbow and press go It has an extra - a printer for those who cannot write or read the screen.l
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Omron-i-Q132-Spotarm-Upper-Small-Automatic-Blood-Pressure-Monitor-Cuff-Armform-/161650840142?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item25a324124e
I have a bog standard cheap cuff type monitor
SWMO has an expensive Omron wrist type monitor as it does not inflict pain.
£6 for a cheap Chinese monitor and £14+ for an Omron.
The silent killer, as you probably already know.
www.webmd.boots.com/hypertension-high-blood-pressure/guide/blood-pressure-myths
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Do many people on here have their own Bp monitors? Can't say I've ever thought of buying one.
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>>GPs seem very keen ( bonus?) to test blood pressure these days.
To be fair it's long been widely tested ever since effective treatments became available in the 50s/60s.
We don't get money for checking blood pressure per se, but part of the practice income is derived from monitoring condition with various metrics equalling various levels of points (which ultimately become money) - the idea is to promote 'quality' care of chronic illnesses.
In practice it means much of the practice nurses, and a fair chunk of the GPs time is spent checking numbers, taking blood tests, and ticking boxes for patients who don't feel unwell.
Personally I think the money would be better spent on education (pre-school/school/adult in all forms), promoting better dietary habits/exercise, and cutting smoking rates.
I have no desire to expend effort and public money chasing people who don't give a toss about their health, or happily devolve responsibility for their own wellbeing to others.
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>>In practice it means much of the practice nurses, and a fair chunk of the GPs time is spent checking numbers, taking blood tests, and ticking boxes for patients who don't feel unwell.
>>
Since our practice support group bought one of the easy to use Omron machines I have noticed many patients using it prior to seeing the GP.
Hopefully less white coat sydrome ?
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>>Hopefully less white coat syndrome ?
Possibly, yes. When there is significant discrepancy I would usually recommend considering a 24hr BP monitor for the least dodgy results, although there's no way of disguising the fact that the cuff is inflating so even then there may be a 'white coat' effect.
Bottom line is higher the BP, the higher the risk of adverse effect as a result - people with 'normal' BP can have strokes and drop dead, just as non-smokers do.
The term 'hypertension' is a bit too clean: the population's BP lies on a continuous curve rather than 2 groups of 'normal' and 'high'.
I'd treat it as a risk factor and be more aggressive about management for someone with Dog's family history than someone whose relatives all live to 95.
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So, I bought a £20 Kinetik auto upper-arm jobbie today, and my BP is an eensey weensey bit north of ideal.
160/90 :(
Um gonna DIY it for six months by cutting out salt, popping some coenzyme Q10, and maybe some Magnesium too plus do some brisk walking for 30 mins or so each day.
If that doesn't do, I'll have to pay a visit to one of 'your lot' for some nice ace inhibitors etc. etc. etc..
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Dog
First off, get used to it. I'll be willing to bet you get lower readings over the next week without trying too much.
The body does need some salt, but a lot of processed food has far too much. I think it's ok now, but when the salt content of foods was first looked at closely, one cup of one brand's mushroom soup contained more salt than was recommended for an adult - in a day. One cup soup and you'd had too much. A by product of cutting your salt intake is that you start to notice foods that have an unnecessary high salt level - like cornflakes!
If you eat them, cut out salted peanuts and crisps. Surprisingly, unsalted crisps with fresh ground black pepper are nice - or a least I think they are.
The other thing is, don't hold too much to the readings of your device until you've done a back to back test at the doctors. But do write down your figures so that you've a list for the doctor.
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>> Firstly I would go to "one of his lot" to make sure the cheap BP monitor is not telling porkies.
Good advice of course. The monitor I chose does get v/good reviews + it's recommended on the British Hypertention w/site.
I'll have to get a friend, who is due a visit (from Plymouth) to bring her Omron with her.
- - - Slidingp I only use Himalayan 'pink' salt, and I don't touch processed food at all at all.
The crisps with fresh ground pepper sound nice.
HBP does, as I say, 'run' in my family, so if I want to hang around for a few more years, I suppose I'll have to join 'you lot' and pop a few pills :)
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>>HBP does, as I say, 'run' in my family, so if I want to hang around for a few more years, I suppose I'll have to join 'you lot' and pop a few pills :)
You probably have high blood pressure.
It is simply a single risk factor for circulatory damage.
My advice would be to get more advice - ECG and blood tests are good practice in anyone with raised blood pressure to look for signs of hidden damage/other big risk factors (kidney damage, diabetes risk, abnormal cholesterol, signs of strain on the heart itself).
The brother with the aneurysm would warrant ensuring you don't have one of those.
Of course you can fanny around checking blood pressures wondering if it's 160/90 or 148/88 or whatever but I'd have no issue MOTing a patient in your position so they can decide what to do with more information than a family history and a home BP result.
Your body tho.
Can I have the Foz if you die?
;-)
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>>Can I have the Foz if you die?
LOL
Thanks doc, tis much appreciated, and I 'take on board' all that you say.
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>>The silent killer, as you probably already know.
www.webmd.boots.com/hypertension-high-blood-pressure/guide/blood-pressure-myths
Some interesting facts there henry, thanks.
I don't mind the dying bit, but I wouldn't want to end my days as a vegetable :)
So I think I'll 'invest' in an 'alf-decent upper arm BP jobbie just to be on 'the safe side'.
Being a health crank (with the emphasis on crank) I know a few tricks to decrease my BP if I did find it was in the danger zone.
I have a theory, which may be utter pfd in that when I'm doing my weight lifting for 1 hour 3 times a week, my BP is obviously increasing, thereby expanding my veins and arteries etc, so in that way it is keeping my vascular system flexible and hence helping to ward orf age-related HBP. This may be common knowledge of course, which is why 'they' preach about exercising.
My favourite exercise (apart from that!) is walking, but I haven't been able to do much of that of late due to having a 15 year-old housebound mutt, and a 4 month-old pup who's joints need to form properly before he comes on my 2 hour + marches!
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 8 Jul 15 at 12:16
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None of the machines actually measure blood pressure. To do that you would have to cut open an artery, insert a T-piece, and connect on a pressure gauge (motoring link).
What they actually do is detect changes in blood flow as the cuff or whatever is pumped up or released, and then interpret that information as a measure of blood pressure.
My doctor says only the traditional kind with a mercury U-tube and a stethoscope are anywhere near accurate, and even they depend on the skill and experience of the user in correctly interpreting what he is hearing.
The electronic devices detect the series of rippling waves downstream of the cuff as the pressure is released - a bit like the waves you see on a wet road as water flows downhill.
These are influenced by other things not blood pressure. For example, it is important to have been sitting still, with back straight, for several minutes before applying the cuff, in order to let extraneous ripples calm down.
Also the height of the arm is crucial. It is supposed to be at heart-height. The conventional and convenient practice of resting the arm on the desk is not correct.
Finally, I queried with my doctor the value of carrying out all these calming procedures before taking the measurement, when in practice in almost every situation in real life one would be moving. If raised blood pressure is in itself harmful, then what is the point of getting it artificially lower in order to measure it?
He agreed most tests are pointless. Blood pressure is not itself harmfull - it is a necessary device in order to ensure that blood gets pumped quickly where and when it is needed. But BP measurement is a quick and easy test, and gives figures which can, sometimes, be of use, but should certainly not be used as a pass or fail measure of basic health.
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>> Finally, I queried with my doctor the value of carrying out all these calming procedures
>> before taking the measurement, when in practice in almost every situation in real life one
>> would be moving.
I always thought it was to give a baseline and keep comparisions the same or at least similar.
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>> I always thought it was to give a baseline and keep comparisions the same or
>> at least similar.
>>
But in practice it can't be a constant baseline.
Sometimes I park outside the surgery, stroll in, and am seen straight away. Sometimes I park at the other end of town and walk quickly to the surgery. Sometimes I have to wait an hour getting frustrated. It depends which nurse takes the reading. On one occasion the doctor didn't believe the reading the nurse had obtained with a wrist monitor so did it himself with his mercury contraption. The reading verging on the dangerously low became quite normal.
The best moment was when I presented him with a graph of my own readings taken daily over a month, at the same moment each morning as I sat waiting for my porage to cook.
"Ah, some real data at last!" he exclaimed.
Everything was normal, nothing to worry about, the panic over one high reading and all the subsequent testing was just over-reaction to an inaccurate spurious result.
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>>....I presented him with a graph of my own readings taken daily over a month, at the same moment each morning.
Very similar to when/ how I have taken my readings for years.
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>>"Ah, some real data at last!" he exclaimed
Very happy to look at home BP data, but would suggest adding 10/5 to the readings to get a fair comparison with GP surgery results.
ie. I'd treat an average home reading of 150/95 the same as me getting 160/100 (the threshold for most people to start BP meds with no other health issues and having tried "lifestyle modification")
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CP
I will update my Cardiologist.
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Howls about this then ... I've just bought one of their cheapo BP monitors from Argos for 20 quid and noticed this little gadget on their website:
kinetikshop.co.uk/products/blood-pressure-lowering-system
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A glass of wine will have the same effect and for that price you will be able to buy a case of something drinkable.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Wed 8 Jul 15 at 13:45
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Can you ask for an aortic scan or do you have to wait until you're 65. I had mine at 65 and I must say it was a great relief to know that mine was the perfect size after me ole mam had thrown a seven 20 yrs ago with a dissecting aneurism at 82.....enthusiastic smoker though !
Another bonus was the trainee 20 something nursette lubricating my manly chest prior to the scan ! Then rubbing her thingy up and down my quivering torso.
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>>Can you ask for an aortic scan or do you have to wait until you're 65.
65 is the age for a screening test, but someone with high BP and a family history asking about a scan would prompt me to organise one before that.
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Make your own bread, Dog. There's a lot of salt in the shop bought variety.
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I doos make my own bread CS, have done for over ten years :) .. if ya'll genetically predisposed to HBP, then all the home-made wholemeal bread in the world isn't going the alter the outcome tbh.
Orf to the docs later on to check BP on their machine. No appointment required which is bueno.
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>> I doos make my own bread CS, have done for over ten years :) ..
>> if ya'll genetically predisposed to HBP, then all the home-made wholemeal bread in the >>world isn't going the alter the outcome tbh.
You never know, it might just help a little if you don't add a fist full of salt to each loaf.
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I make all our bread using a Pana. I add 2 tsp of Himalayan rock salt per loaf.
I can't be the only one who has forgotten to add the salt (and the yeast!) at times.
It tastes friggin awful without salt, and doesn't bake as good as it should.
I eat four slices of bread per day, weigh 11 stone 11 pounds @ 6ft and am as fit as a violin :)
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Poncy salt is just as bad as common salt. I use 1/2 teaspoon table salt per 800g loaf. Sufficient to give it flavour, insufficient to be a health issue
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I make a 1lb 2 oz loaf so use a hell-of-a-lot more sodium than thee, but I'll wager my overall salt intake is quite low.
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>> Poncy salt is just as bad as common salt.
Is the Lo Salt really any better for you than the normal stuff ?
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I use that....but have twice as much!
Pat
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>>Is the Lo Salt really any better for you than the normal stuff ?
I believe Lo Salt contains potassium which aids the kidneys in excreting the sodium.
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Lo salt is a mix of sodium chloride (salt) and potassium chloride.
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Lo-salt is potentially dangerous if you have dodgy kidneys as raised potassium levels aren't too good for the heart.
Salt in moderation is perfectly adequate.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Thu 9 Jul 15 at 20:41
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I've been wondering whether I put too much salt in my bread. I use 12g in 1000g of flour to make 4 x 400g loaves, so about 0.75g salt/100g in the finished bread.
I have just looked up Warburtons wholemeal ingredients and they say 0.95g/100g. So I'm on the right side of it, but maybe I'll try a but less.
Commercially produced bread contains less salt than it used to, there is a now a voluntary standard of 1% salt in the finished bread. Local bakers probably still use up to double that in some cases.
www.food.gov.uk/sites/default/files/multimedia/pdfs/publication/saltincraftbakerbreadguide.pdf
My challenge is the amount of salt I am inclined to put on a boiled egg, a preference for salted butter, and a liking for Marmite on toast. I think I'll try cutting down all round.
My father loved salt. He would put it on tomatoes for example. He died of a suspected heart attack at 64.
There's something odd going on with my ticker, although the quack doesn't seem concerned following a normal ECG (about 30 seconds worth) and a blood test. I get odd rhythms and missed beats, low pulse rate and low BP at times. Maybe time to start logging it so I can present the data when I see him again - I am an infrequent visitor and only go when in fear of imminent demise.
Eyes are fine!
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>> My father loved salt. He would put it on tomatoes for example.
Doesn't everyone? I do.
I suspect some people make themselves ill feeling guilty and anxious about salt, fat and sugar. Best to eat what you like until you start getting insistent symptoms. You don't want to consume too little salt, you need some.
I've never bothered trying to ration these substances, and I'm still more or less OK at 76. Seems to me interfering and inhospitable to put no salt in the food and have none on the table for the use of normal human beings.
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>>Doesn't everyone? I do
Me too, unless they're very sweet.
Salt and sugar should be used to enhance taste, not as flavours in their own right though.
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SWM likes her salt....I've been thinking of fixing salt licks to the door frames ! She prefers sea salt from a grinder on the table.
She told me she went into Asda once to get a new containerful.
Girl helper...' What's sea salt ' ?
SWM ' It's coarse natural salt you put in a grinder '
Girl helper... ' Oh, you mean peppoh ' ( Manc pronunciation ).
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Drivers eye tests. - Old Navy
